View Full Version : Good guys 3, bad guys 0
Headline is a little misleading.
http://ktul.com/news/local/wagoner-co-sheriffs-office-investigating-triple-homicide-in-broken-arrow-area (http://ktul.com/news/local/wagoner-co-sheriffs-office-investigating-triple-homicide-in-broken-arrow-area)
funkymonkey1111
03-27-2017, 23:53
But they were just teens!
But they were just teens!
And on their way to church, just taking a shortcut. They dindoonuffins......
BushMasterBoy
03-28-2017, 01:31
Shot with an AR-15 according to this...
http://www.tulsaworld.com/communities/wagoner/news/three-dead-after-broken-arrow-area-homeowner-s-son-shoots/article_3ee7532a-05c6-5998-808f-4b0b3eb1aa46.html
Bailey Guns
03-28-2017, 06:22
A little cleansing is a good thing. Hats off to the son. I hope it all turns out OK for him and the family.
BPTactical
03-28-2017, 07:38
Taxpayer relief rounds
Taxpayer relief rounds
[Beer]
Darwin, party of three . . . your table is ready.
osok-308
03-28-2017, 09:51
Sounds like the suspects planned on harming anyone they encountered inside... You don't bring a knife and brass knuckles into a stranger's house with good intentions.... Too bad they brought a knife (and brass knuckles) to a gunfight.
DenverGP
03-28-2017, 10:15
article says they entered thru a sliding glass door. I was amazed at how easy it is, from the outside of the house, to lift the sliding door up and push it out of it's track on most doors, even when locked.
I installed this on my slider:
http://armorconcepts.com/armor-latch-white.html
article says they entered thru a sliding glass door. I was amazed at how easy it is, from the outside of the house, to lift the sliding door up and push it out of it's track on most doors, even when locked.
I installed this on my slider:
http://armorconcepts.com/armor-latch-white.html
Yeah, sliding glass doors are very easy to break in through. We have a bar in ours.
screw driver under front of door, pry up, slide back. Used to get in my parents' house that way when younger and I forgot my keys. Bar = good.
My new slider has a rod top-bottom, and a security latch pin on the back side. Can't be lifted once latched.
I still don't trust it... I mean, it's freakin Vinyl.
Out-frickin-standing!
Too bad AR-15's have no value for self defense. Nobody needs a battlefield weapon for deer hunting. Etc etc. [blah-blah]
I've always had a cut to fit piece of wood along the bottom of my sliding door for years.
Now I am heading home after work and checking to see if I can lift it out and open it up.
I wonder how many rounds were fired at them sob's [AR15]
Zundfolge
03-28-2017, 16:08
Further proof that nobody needs an AR-15.
[Sarcasm2]
GilpinGuy
03-28-2017, 16:46
Out-frickin-standing!
Too bad AR-15's have no value for self defense. Nobody needs a battlefield weapon for deer hunting. Etc etc. [blah-blah]
Further proof that nobody needs an AR-15.
[Sarcasm2]
Didn't Nanny Bloomberg's samich makers say just this? Keep making sammys beeotches.
Coulda just fired two blasts in the air from a double barrell shotgun.
Coulda just fired two blasts in the air from a double barrell shotgun.
Ha! According to some of the other suggestions from the left, he also could've urinated on himself (or his mom I guess).
Didn't Nanny Bloomberg's samich makers say just this? Keep making sammys beeotches.
That slunt Shannon Watts was flapping her gums in feigned indignation via twitterverse (so I heard) and on the news last night (my ears still ooze puss) over UA's refusal to allow two girls wearing leggings (which i guess are the same thing as yoga pants?) to board because they were traveling on employee passes and didn't meet the dress code.
Tinelement
03-28-2017, 20:02
Good for him!
That's gotta be a head trip to deal with tho. Geez.
Oddly, the best reporting so far comes from the UK:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4358960/PICTURED-home-intruders-shot-dead-homeowner-s-son.html
Zundfolge
03-29-2017, 11:40
Good Morning America covered this story this AM ... all Robin Roberts could do is whine about the "shooter" not being charged and how unfair it was that the getaway driver is facing 3 counts of first degree murder (OK is a Felony Murder state). Wish she'd have died of cancer, the horrible bitch.
funkymonkey1111
03-29-2017, 14:45
Good Morning America covered this story this AM ... all Robin Roberts could do is whine about the "shooter" not being charged and how unfair it was that the getaway driver is facing 3 counts of first degree murder (OK is a Felony Murder state). Wish she'd have died of cancer, the horrible bitch.
in fact there was a GMA web story about the shooting "testing" Oklahoma's stand your ground law--it was front page on Yahoo News. It's now been deleted from their page
check out the verbiage in this link, but its now a dead link:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/killing-teens-burglary-test-oklahoma-stand-ground-law/story?id=46429244
Zundfolge
03-29-2017, 14:54
in fact there was a GMA web story about the shooting "testing" Oklahoma's stand your ground law--it was front page on Yahoo News. It's not been deleted from their page
Yay, someone got some well deserved backlash.
The story started with an apparent slant, but their legal expert did make some very salient points.
However, when they cannot even make a proper distinction between "stand your ground" and castle doctrine laws, as they differ and are generally targeted to specific uses (inside vs outside the residence), they lose any possible credibility.
While some states may extend SYG to the home, most have specific statutes differentiating each. In some cases, a castle doctrine rule may exist where a general SYG does not.
That said, it's important for everyone that carries to know the laws where you intend to defend yourself if necessary.
Aloha_Shooter
03-29-2017, 15:46
Gotta love the comments in the ABC page. I hope people really remember the blatant lies and distortions told by the MSM this past year and use it to inform themselves on their information sources.
Zundfolge
03-29-2017, 15:48
I hope people really remember the blatant lies and distortions told by the MSM this past half century and use it to inform themselves on their information sources.
Fixed it for you.
When these "thugs" broke into an occupied house, they gambled with "risk vs. reward"...and lost. Regardless if they were visibly armed or not when they broke into the house, the homeowner should be perfectly within their right to dispatch them with extreme prejudice. When you break into an occupied home, you are taking your life into your own hands. Your home is your castle, your sanctuary and you should be able to protect yourself with adequate means from would-be invaders. I'm glad the people inside the home are safe and were adequately prepared to deal with these "thugs".
There is one absolute here and that is those three shitbirds will never, ever do that again.
My impression of this event is that the get away driver was influencing these kids to carry out deeds she wasn't willing to do herself. Being charged with murder is appropriate.
I like how Each. And. Every. Story. Starts with "Three teenage..." As if the person protecting themselves in the home somehow should have known that...
...and as if that makes a difference in the first place...
O2
I like how Each. And. Every. Story. Starts with "Three teenage..." As if the person protecting themselves in the home somehow should have known that...
...and as if that makes a difference in the first place...
O2
I agree. It should read, "Three armed criminals illegally forced their way into a rural home and were subsequently shot and killed by the occupants inside the home."
The unfortunate part is the young man who defended himself. He's going to have to live with knowing he killed three people (justifiably).
The getaway driver looks a lot like John Pinette....
The unfortunate part is the young man who defended himself. He's going to have to live with knowing he killed three people (justifiably).
You are correct, but my guess is the young man has already made his resolve to some degree or he wouldn't have pulled the trigger with such effectiveness. As a former firearms instructor, I used to tell people, "I can teach you how to manipulate the firearm and be effective with it. What I can't teach you is the mindset it takes to pull that trigger on someone who is trying to kill you. That is something only you can make peace with. However; if you cannot come to terms with that, then you are not qualified to be carrying a gun to protect yourself or anyone else".
There is still the aftermath of all this and he will certainly need emotional support and positive reinforcement that he did the right thing. I'm certainly not trying to play it off like he will be perfectly normal after all this. He most likely will never be the same again. As long as he is at peace knowing he did what he had to do...he'll keep charging on.
The getaway driver looks a lot like John Pinette....
She doesn't look dead....yet.
There is still the aftermath of all this and he will certainly need emotional support and positive reinforcement that he did the right thing. I'm certainly not trying to play it off like he will be perfectly normal after all this. He most likely will never be the same again. As long as he is at peace knowing he did what he had to do...he'll keep charging on.
No kidding. Many people are "not the same" after a good hangover. I really feel for this kid. I'd tell him that their deaths were a result of the decisions that THEY made that day, not his.
Did John Pinette die?
buffalobo
03-30-2017, 05:24
John Pinette died in 2014.
Zundfolge
03-30-2017, 08:48
GMA did ANOTHER story on this this morning. Again they were lamenting that the evil shooter who used an assault rifle to murder children was walking free while the poor chubby little Latnia was being hung out to dry.
Then they had Nancy Grace on and I was like "oh brother" because I hate her with a rather intense passion, but she basically took all the whinging "journalists" to task and destroyed them, saying "it doesn't matter if you use an AR15 or a BB gun, you have the right to defend yourself and your family". And further she destroyed the "poor little latina" pointing out that this girl masterminded the robbery, egged the guys on to do it (all so she could pay her rent) and when she heard the first gunshot she fled like a little bitch.
First time I've ever had any respect for Nancy Grace.
Just wait until they start calling it a "mass shooting"!
Zundfolge
03-30-2017, 10:15
Just wait until they start calling it a "mass shooting"!
Technically this shooting will probably be added to "mass shooting" stats ... further showing how dishonest they are.
Ok, I'll be more specific. The getaway driver appears (to me) to have a resemblance to John Pinnette.... when he was still living.[Coffee]
First time I've ever had any respect for Nancy Grace.
Damn. I hate it when they do things like this.
JohnnyDrama
03-30-2017, 20:20
There will be a vigil for the three "victims" this weekend....
http://ktul.com/news/local/family-member-of-teen-burglary-suspect-killed-in-wagoner-county-break-in-speaks-out
You know, if these kids don't have a criminal history, I don't mind a vigil. They certainly made the final decision to go through with their plan, but if they didn't have a history of this type of thing, then this certainly is a shame. The community should use this event as a shining example of making smart choices for as long as they can. That said, I'm not losing any sleep over the results.
funkymonkey1111
03-30-2017, 20:29
Just wait until they start calling it a "mass shooting"!
by the anti's definition, it is a mass shooting. their names will be read aloud during tributes to those dying from gun violence, just like one of the boston marathon bombers was, since he was killed by police gunfire.
^^yup. Also be wrapped into the numbed of children killed by guns since they were all under 22.
^^yup. Also be wrapped into the numbed of children killed by guns since they were all under 22.
I thought the CDC cut-off for "children" was 25. Did they lower it?
They should raise it to 26 so it matches the age which you can be on your parents health plan. You know, to just standardize.
GilpinGuy
03-30-2017, 22:32
^^Way too logical for government.
A vigil for 3 home invaders? They may not have a rap sheet, but 3 good kids don't just go and do a home invasion out of the blue. Methinks they weren't alter boys - they just didn't get caught yet. Shit luck for them that they picked the wrong house.
Great-Kazoo
03-30-2017, 23:31
You know, if these kids don't have a criminal history, I don't mind a vigil. They certainly made the final decision to go through with their plan, but if they didn't have a history of this type of thing, then this certainly is a shame. The community should use this event as a shining example of making smart choices for as long as they can. That said, I'm not losing any sleep over the results.
Like they did for M.Brown, with a plaque in the middle of the street?
^^Way too logical for government.
A vigil for 3 home invaders? They may not have a rap sheet, but 3 good kids don't just go and do a home invasion out of the blue. Methinks they weren't alter boys - they just didn't get caught yet. Shit luck for them that they picked the wrong house.
I'm curious if the other break-ins in the neighborhood that the article mentioned were the same kids.
I'll be curious if the drop off in new break ins in the neighborhood will be due to their departure, or the risk for the next set of Musketeers.
That guys neighbor's ought to throw him a party.
There will be a vigil for the three "victims" this weekend....
http://ktul.com/news/local/family-member-of-teen-burglary-suspect-killed-in-wagoner-county-break-in-speaks-out
I like how the grandfather says that brass knuckles against an AR15 are no contest and that he shouldn't have fired because of that (paraphrased).
That's essentially the purpose of home and self defense isn't it? Plan for an advantage and be ready to use it. The homeowner was too well prepared I guess and should've put the rifle down because of the unfair advantage.
Hadn't read the article about the vigil until now, and the very last paragraph is awkward. It talks about which school district they all used to belong to, but in a way that suggests at least some of them were drop outs.
Zundfolge
03-31-2017, 09:31
Was discussing this with a friend last night and this story in conjunction with stories about Antifa punks "arming up" and "getting tactical training" (http://imgur.com/G8utict)(which is what they call playing airsoft) we were wondering if the MSM isn't trying to set the groundwork for a "Evil AR owners kill innocent chil'en" narrative for when some Antifa idiots get themselves shot by a patriot while LARPing as revolutionaries.
osok-308
03-31-2017, 10:35
Hadn't read the article about the vigil until now, and the very last paragraph is awkward. It talks about which school district they all used to belong to, but in a way that suggests at least some of them were drop outs.
Well yeah, they had to include the fact that these guys went to school (it's probably one of the only good thing they've done). It furthers their agenda that these were only "kids" never mind the fact that they were in the middle of committing felonies.
BushMasterBoy
03-31-2017, 10:55
I wonder if they were hollow points or FMJ ?
funkymonkey1111
03-31-2017, 10:56
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/dont-blame-him-alleged-getaway-driver-says-resident-004905952--abc-news-topstories.html
jailhouse interview with getaway girl--they had already broken into part of the home earlier, and committed other burglaries.
Bailey Guns
03-31-2017, 10:57
I've never heard of Antifa. Just what we need...another group making it their mission to show the world what a bunch of idiots look like when they congregate.
911 call from the house:
http://gunfreezone.net/index.php/2017/03/31/and-that-is-how-you-call-911/
Guy was very calm. My guess is that he was in shock.
O2
ColoradoTJ
03-31-2017, 16:06
There will be a vigil for the three "victims" this weekend....
http://ktul.com/news/local/family-member-of-teen-burglary-suspect-killed-in-wagoner-county-break-in-speaks-out
Unbelievable.
Now flip that around. I wonder if Leroy Schumacher would feel the same if someone broke into his home? Wonder if he has ever been stabbed or hit with a set of brass knuckles?
I'm thinking not. He is grieving and understandably so, but if he was put into that same situation, I'm guessing there would have been similar outcome.
Maybe he should have taught his grandson better. Maybe he did. I have seen this time and time again with great parents...kids do stupid shit. Sometime parents have to get real with kids and not sugar coat it. I can guarantee that my kids will see first hand will bullets do, what STDs do, jail time and all those nasty things via the internet, and maybe in person. Even after all that, I cannot say with 100% certainty that my kids will not be the young teens I hope they are. Sometimes stupid hurts.....
I like how the grandfather says that brass knuckles against an AR15 are no contest and that he shouldn't have fired because of that (paraphrased).
That's essentially the purpose of home and self defense isn't it? Plan for an advantage and be ready to use it. The homeowner was too well prepared I guess and should've put the rifle down because of the unfair advantage.
Yeah, because 3 against 1 gives no advantage when you've failed to grasp logic and reason.
ColoradoTJ
03-31-2017, 16:21
Yeah, because 3 against 1 gives no advantage when you've failed to grasp logic and reason.
No doubt right?
Yeah, because 3 against 1 gives no advantage when you've failed to grasp logic and reason.
If only there was something that could help overcome 3 against 1 odds. Preferably something light, affordable, adaptable, maneuverable, and that fired a potent rifle round from an easily replaced large capacity magazine.
This guy just sold a thousand AR15's. He should get a royalty check. And someone should throat punch Hickenlooper.
If only there was something that could help overcome 3 against 1 odds. Preferably something light, affordable, adaptable, maneuverable, and that fired a potent rifle round from an easily replaced large standard full capacity magazine.
FIFY
Did Dickinpooper say something about this incident...or just 'cuz?
“These boys' families are going to suffer with this the rest of their lives, we have to live with this the rest of our lives," said Schumacher.
Sorry, no shits given.
Zundfolge
04-01-2017, 09:56
I'm not generally one to believe that people should be punished for the actions of a third party ... but Leroy here is on some level responsible for his grandson becoming the dirtbag he had become ... and his laments reinforce that notion if you ask me.
Showing remorse... Only for being caught as far as I can tell.
Basically it's Ididndonuttn, why am I being charged with murder?
http://www.newson6.com/category/121535/video-page?autostart=true&clipId=13213908
There's a "Web extra" on that page (don't know how to link to it) where it shows that she's pretty cold. The libs will feel sorry for her, instead of learning how an animal who does not subscribe to the rules of polite society thinks.
O2
osok-308
04-01-2017, 12:09
I'm not generally one to believe that people should be punished for the actions of a third party ... but Leroy here is on some level responsible for his grandson becoming the dirtbag he had become ... and his laments reinforce that notion if you ask me.
Are you referring to the girl getting murder charges because of the felony murder rule? If so, the law judges it by the "but for" standard. "But for hers and their (the three who broke in the house) actions, the home owner would not have had a reason to shoot them causing their early demise." I have no problem with it honestly.
ColoradoTJ
04-01-2017, 12:47
Showing remorse... Only for being caught as far as I can tell.
Basically it's Ididndonuttn, why am I being charged with murder?
http://www.newson6.com/category/121535/video-page?autostart=true&clipId=13213908
There's a "Web extra" on that page (don't know how to link to it) where it shows that she's pretty cold. The libs will feel sorry for her, instead of learning how an animal who does not subscribe to the rules of polite society thinks.
O2
Thanks for that link O2HeN2!
I just love it when criminals say "didn't have to kill xxx, could have shot them in the leg."
No, you can't just "shoot them in the leg" and say you were in fear for your life. I guess the criminals want a second chance at robbing, killing, or better yet sueing you for wrongful shooting.
I feel no sorrow for your friends sweaty.
Zundfolge
04-01-2017, 13:48
Are you referring to the girl getting murder charges because of the felony murder rule? If so, the law judges it by the "but for" standard. "But for hers and their (the three who broke in the house) actions, the home owner would not have had a reason to shoot them causing their early demise." I have no problem with it honestly.
I'm referring to comments the Grandfather of one of the dead dirtbags wherein he said it wasn't fair that the would-be victim had an AR-15 and his precious little snowflake only had a knife and brass knuckles and two dirtbag buddies.
The getaway driver/mastermind deserves 3 convictions for 1st Degree Murder and a ride in "ole sparky" or lethal injection or however they off criminals down there.
I feel no sorrow for your friends sweaty.
I see what you did there.
osok-308
04-01-2017, 17:51
I'm referring to comments the Grandfather of one of the dead dirtbags wherein he said it wasn't fair that the would-be victim had an AR-15 and his precious little snowflake only had a knife and brass knuckles and two dirtbag buddies.
The getaway driver/mastermind deserves 3 convictions for 1st Degree Murder and a ride in "ole sparky" or lethal injection or however they off criminals down there.
I see. Sounds like you and I are in agreement.
Zundfolge
04-01-2017, 18:29
I see. Sounds like you and I are in agreement.
Glad we cleared that up [Beer]
theGinsue
04-01-2017, 18:56
The getaway driver is hoping the judge will give her bail (on a triple murder charge) so she can go home and tell her kids she loves them before she goes to prison.
So much wrong with that thinking that I could go on & on about each of the wrong minded topics. I'll just touch on this one: If you've got kids, don't go out and do stupid shit that'll get you sent to prison (especially for life).
If you've got kids, don't go out and do stupid shit.
That's all you need.
osok-308
04-02-2017, 12:57
I'll just touch on this one: If you've got kids, don't go out and do stupid shit that'll get you sent to prison (especially for life).
69949
FIFY
Standard is high in this circumstance and saying standard doesn't communicate any advantage gained by quantity to the uninformed reader of the article linked in the OP.
The antis are gunning for "high-capacity" magazines. People need to understand that these magazines are nothing but standard full capacity. To do with anything less means "limited" or "restricted" capacity.
The antis are gunning for "high-capacity" magazines. People need to understand that these magazines are nothing but standard full capacity. To do with anything less means "limited" or "restricted" capacity.
Your first challenge is getting them to 'understand'....
The antis refuse to understand. It's against their religion. It's the ones that are uneducated and not attending their church that need to understand.
The antis are gunning for "high-capacity" magazines. People need to understand that these magazines are nothing but standard full capacity. To do with anything less means "limited" or "restricted" capacity.
Yes but none of those terms communicate any idea of actual quantity. I get your point but it preaches to the choir.
English kanigit
04-03-2017, 01:17
69960
Yes but none of those terms communicate any idea of actual quantity. I get your point but it preaches to the choir.
It's all about presenting it in a way that even an idiot can understand without letting them eat your crayons.
When it comes to dealing with nefarious assholes, plural, sharing is caring.
Ek
JohnnyDrama
04-03-2017, 18:25
I heard an interesting conversation on the radio (97.5 KMOD out of Tulsa) this morning on this topic. I've been working south of Tulsa this past week and this morning the radio personalities, locals, which in this time of mass syndication is fun, were discussing how much access the driver was being given for interviews. They thought it was very uncharacteristic for someone facing the charges to be in the news as much as she has been. The radio people's take on her comments largely reflects those expressed here. She is sorry for getting caught and this was not her first time. The radio conversation also implied the reason for stating what schools those involved attended was to show parental types that there is a criminal element alive and well in their communities. Those with children can step up and guide them or someone else will.
Yes but none of those terms communicate any idea of actual quantity. I get your point but it preaches to the choir.
Words mean something. When you adopt the terminology of the antis, you're already losing the argument.
Words mean something. When you adopt the terminology of the antis, you're already losing the argument.
And when you assume a discussion is an argument you're losing that argument as well [firearm enthusiast to person ignorant of firearms].
A standard capacity USGI magazine has a large capacity to a person that lives in a capacity limited state. The terms are not exclusive because capacity is relative.
The terms are not exclusive because capacity is relative.
Especially when you've given up on what is "standard", aka "common use".
Which religions should we limit from the 1st Amendment? When everything is negotiable, there are no limits on government.
Especially when you've given up on what is "standard", aka "common use".
Which religions should we limit from the 1st Amendment? When everything is negotiable, there are no limits on government.
So trying to find a common vocabulary with people ignorant of firearms in an effort to hopefully educate is like negotiating away religious liberty?
theGinsue
04-03-2017, 22:08
When I'm discussing AR mags with a non/anti-firearms, or even a "pro firearm"/anti "assault weapon" type I'm very careful to use the proper terms for the firearms and magazines. AR's are semi-automatic sporting rifles and 30 round magazines are "standard capacity" magazines.
As much as the anti's are pushing their terminology on everyone to elicit a negative response and get more folks afraid of these items, I believe it's our responsibility to push just as hard to use terminology that doesn't carry the strong negative emotional baggage. If we do it enough, and return the proper terminology to common verncular, we may start winning over minds, one at a time.
If you adopt their terminology you're doing nothing more than helping to further their agenda and maintaining the demonization of these items.
I don't suggest adopting their terminology at all. Only finding a starting point.
All I'm saying is that when I'm with a student who is confused about the difference between altitude, flight level, elevation, and height, I'll first make sure our plane is going to miss the mountain before I straighten out the terminology.
osok-308
04-04-2017, 10:51
When I'm discussing AR mags with a non/anti-firearms, or even a "pro firearm"/anti "assault weapon" type I'm very careful to use the proper terms for the firearms and magazines. AR's are semi-automatic sporting rifles and 30 round magazines are "standard capacity" magazines.
I think, as this thread implies, there may be better ways to refer to AR's, such as Defense Rifles. Most of us (on this thread) probably have a semi-auto rifle for the defense of their home and family. Even many of those on the anti-gun side, still agree with the notion of self-defense. While they may disagree on the use of firearms for such defense, they could concede that people still have that right. That's how I explained it my mother-in-law, who had been anti-semiautomatic rifle. She has since warmed up to the idea of using a rifle for self defense.
DenverGP
04-04-2017, 16:13
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/crimewatch/sheriff-consider-your-choices-shooter-won-t-face-charges-in/article_4cde9574-7156-5dbe-857e-b7e537b59d9f.html
The good guy will not face any charges.
.455_Hunter
04-04-2017, 22:12
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/crimewatch/sheriff-consider-your-choices-shooter-won-t-face-charges-in/article_4cde9574-7156-5dbe-857e-b7e537b59d9f.html
The good guy will not face any charges.
I wish all DAs had such common sense.
Zundfolge
04-05-2017, 12:49
AR's are semi-automatic sporting rifles and 30 round magazines are "standard capacity" magazines.
I've always wished that "Sport Utility Rifle" would have caught on.
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