The French, Coming Apart - A social thinker illuminates his country’s populist divide.

[roberth]

Very interesting, long but a good read.


In France, a real-estate expert has done something almost as improbable. Christophe Guilluy calls himself a geographer. But he has spent decades as a housing consultant in various rapidly changing neighborhoods north of Paris, studying gentrification, among other things. And he has crafted a convincing narrative tying together France’s various social problems—immigration tensions, inequality, deindustrialization, economic decline, ethnic conflict, and the rise of populist parties. Such an analysis had previously eluded the Parisian caste of philosophers, political scientists, literary journalists, government-funded researchers, and party ideologues.

https://www.city-journal.org/html/french-coming-apart-15125.html

[Irving]

Very well written. Not at all dumbed down and worth the read.

[wctriumph]

That was an interesting read. It will take me awhile to digest all of that.

[MrAK]

+1.

Good read and thanks for the share.

"we may have done nothing for the poor, but we did appoint the first disabled lesbian parking commissioner"
That quote made me think of Boulder County for some reason...

[def90]

+1.

Good read and thanks for the share.

"we may have done nothing for the poor, but we did appoint the first disabled lesbian parking commissioner"
That quote made me think of Boulder County for some reason...

lol..

great article!

[Bailey Guns]

Very well written. Not at all dumbed down and worth the read.

Agreed. As a matter of fact, I had to read several parts a few times, and look up a few things, to get the proper meaning or perspective.

On the other hand, it seems to me the entire article can be summed up by saying the far left fucks up everything they touch and "multiculturalism" is a disaster.

[Irving]

Agreed. As a matter of fact, I had to read several parts a few times, and look up a few things, to get the proper meaning or perspective.

On the other hand, it seems to me the entire article can be summed up by saying the far left fucks up everything they touch and "multiculturalism" is a disaster.

Same here for the first part, I just didn't want to say it out loud.

I'm not sure I agree the second sentence is the problem so simply. That's certainly there, but it seems to extend beyond "the left" and closer to "the government."

EDIT: Actually, I take this back. The article very clearly points out as "Left" government specifically as being a major problem.

[Gman]

Very interesting read. I totally agree that "political correctness" (you can lump "hate crime" in there as well) is the enemy of free speech. It attempts to control the discussion by tipping the balance. The "thought police" are attempting to control the socio-political dialogue.

We live in interesting times.

The way I read it, it was a damnation of the left and right for their attempts at collusion to maintain control when their standard gameplan no longer works.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Excellent article. You could replace Paris with New York or Chicago or Los Angeles and it would work here.


As Paris has become not just the richest city in France but the richest city in the history of France, its residents have come to describe their politics as “on the left”—a judgment that tomorrow’s historians might dispute. Most often, Parisians mean what Guilluy calls la gauche hashtag, or what we might call the “glass-ceiling Left,” preoccupied with redistribution among, not from, elites: we may have done nothing for the poor, but we did appoint the first disabled lesbian parking commissioner.

LOL @ appointing the first disabled lesbian parking commissioner but that really is the attitude of the elitists.

[ben4372]

This is a great read. Long, but worth it. Shared with others not on the board.

[Gman]

Centrist Macron, far-right Le Pen in battle to lead France (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/centrist-macron-far-right-le-pen-in-battle-to-lead-france/ar-BBA95jQ)

PARIS (AP) — Centrist Emmanuel Macron and far-right populist Marine Le Pen advanced Sunday to a runoff in France's presidential election, remaking the country's political landscape and setting up a showdown over its participation in the European Union.

French politicians on the left and right immediately urged voters to block Le Pen's path to power in the May 7 runoff, saying her virulently nationalist anti-EU and anti-immigration politics would spell disaster for France.

"Extremism can only bring unhappiness and division to France," defeated conservative candidate Francois Fillon said. "As such, there is no other choice than to vote against the extreme right."

The selection of Le Pen and Macron presents voters with the starkest possible choice between two diametrically opposed visions of the EU's future and France's place in it. It sets up a battle between Macron's optimistic vision of a tolerant France and a united Europe with open borders against Le Pen's darker, inward-looking "French-first" platform that calls for closed borders, tougher security, less immigration and dropping the shared euro currency to return to the French franc.

With Le Pen wanting France to leave the EU and Macron wanting even closer cooperation among the bloc's 28 nations, Sunday's outcome means the May 7 runoff will have undertones of a referendum on France's EU membership.

The absence in the runoff of candidates from either the mainstream left Socialists or the right-wing Republicans party — the two main political groups that have governed post-war France — also marked a seismic shift in French politics. Macron, a 39-year-old investment banker, made the runoff on the back of a grassroots campaign without the support of a major political party.

[Great-Kazoo]

Of course all the Buzz words to "SCARE" the voters are in full force, within the AP story and leftist media outlets. Contrasting with the "Sensible Choice"


Centrist Emmanuel Macron and far-right populist Marine Le Pen advanced Sunday to a runoff in France's presidential election, remaking the country's political landscape and setting up a showdown over its participation in the European Union.

French politicians on the left and right immediately urged voters to block Le Pen's path to power in the May 7 runoff, saying her virulently nationalist anti-EU and anti-immigration politics would spell disaster for France.

"Extremism can only bring unhappiness and division to France," defeated conservative candidate Francois Fillon said. "As such, there is no other choice than to vote against the extreme right."

The selection of Le Pen and Macron presents voters with the starkest possible choice between two diametrically opposed visions of the EU's future and France's place in it. It sets up a battle between Macron's optimistic vision of a tolerant France and a united Europe with open borders against Le Pen's darker, inward-looking "French-first" platform that calls for closed borders, tougher security, less immigration and dropping the shared euro currency to return to the French franc.

[CS1983]

Remember that time Charles Martel slaughtered a bunch of France-invading muzzies at Tours? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

[ruthabagah]

Remember that time Charles Martel slaughtered a bunch of France-invading muzzies at Tours? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

Its was poitier not tour and hell yeah!

[ruthabagah]

So i voted on saturday and yesterday my few french liberal friends started their long descent into the abyss.... it was a post trump election redux.... with the same meme translated in french. They are just clueless and still believe the state will provide for them when it looks like most of france has finally made a turn to the 21st century. The next round will be fun to watch...

[Bailey Guns]

So i voted on saturday...

May I ask for whom you voted? Knowing what little I do, I would've voted for Le Pen. She does remind me of Trump.

[Martinjmpr]

French elites have convinced themselves that their social supremacy rests not on their economic might but on their common decency. Doing so allows them to “present the losers of globalization as embittered people who have problems with diversity,” says Guilluy. It’s not our privilege that the French deplorables resent, the elites claim; it’s the color of some of our employees’ skin. French elites have a thesaurus full of colorful vocabulary for those who resist the open society: repli (“reaction”), crispation identitaire (“ethnic tension”), and populisme (an accusation equivalent to fascism, which somehow does not require an equivalent level of proof). One need not say anything racist or hateful to be denounced as a member of “white, xenophobic France,” or even as a “fascist.” To express mere discontent with the political system is dangerous enough. It is to faire le jeu de (“play the game of”) the National Front.

Wow. Sounds almost exactly like what's going on here.

Thanks for posting the article.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Of course all the Buzz words to "SCARE" the voters are in full force, within the AP story and leftist media outlets. Contrasting with the "Sensible Choice"
[I]

Centrist Emmanuel Macron and far-right populist Marine Le Pen advanced Sunday to a runoff in France's presidential election, remaking the country's political landscape and setting up a showdown over its participation in the European Union.

Macron is only centrist when you're looking in from the extreme left wing but watch the political elite from all sides join forces to try to defeat Le Pen. I'm not a fan of her or her father but she is definitely pulling from a hidden vote of patriotic "common" people that feel abandoned and overwhelmed by the coastal elites like Brexit and Trump did. The same cognitive dissonance experienced by the elites who don't understand why they have lost the vote and why their lies are no longer working.

[68Charger]

+1.

Good read and thanks for the share.

"we may have done nothing for the poor, but we did appoint the first disabled lesbian parking commissioner"
That quote made me think of Boulder County for some reason...

You'd have to add "illegal immigrant" (or undocumented citizen if you ask them) to qualify for office in Boulder

[CS1983]

Its was poitier not tour and hell yeah!

It's known by both.

[ruthabagah]

May I ask for whom you voted? Knowing what little I do, I would've voted for Le Pen. She does remind me of Trump.

Sure. I voted for macron, the center guy. Why? Because he is the only one with a conservative agenda and a pragmatic approach to the economy. The problem with le pen is her almost far left socialist approach of the same subject. France needs to break a lot of over inflated social benefits to be more competitive and this can only be done by a pragmatic.

[Bailey Guns]

Thanks. That's the first I've heard of her as "far left". Every time I read something about her it describes her as far right. Admittedly, I haven't read a lot and know nothing else about her than what I've seen in American media. Course, that could be my problem right there.

[Gman]

I thought 'the left' had been running the government for quite some time. They appear to have lost the election.

...and nothing I've read describes Le Pen as 'left'. I've read that Sarkozy has called her a leftist, but isn't he further to the right than Le Pen? She has moved the FN party further left than her father, but I see him described as 'extreme right wing'. Is something being lost in translation?

[ruthabagah]

I thought 'the left' had been running the government for quite some time. They appear to have lost the election.

...and nothing I've read describes Le Pen as 'left'. Is something being lost in translation?

Her political and economic program are both extremely populist in nature and require even more government oversight than what exists today. There is no long term plan for growth and the national preference will be the death of the french economy since possible retaliation from other country would stiffle exports which are a huge part of the country industries. She is often referred as far right, cause nobody wants to identify to the fn and that was the only seat available in the assembly. If she was a US candidate, she would stand hand to hand with trump on foreign affairs and immigration but with an extremely liberal view of the economy.

[ruthabagah]

1 more things that may explain some of the confusion: europeans will call american conservatives "liberals" because they want de-regulate the economy....

Best article i found in english to outline le pen policies.
http://www.euronews.com/2017/02/09/what-do-we-know-about-marine-le-pen-s-policies

[Gman]

Thanks. I guess that's why the FN appeals to the unemployed, more government assistance.

[roberth]

Since Le Pen's economic policy is being discussed this is Forbes take:


Marine Le Pen is the leader of an avowedly nationalist party so it perhaps shouldn't be all that much of a surprise that the economic plans are very nationalist. But it's also true that these ideas are an absurdly efficient manner of making French people poorer, which isn't normally what we think of as the aim of public policy. There is though quite a large following for such things in the country--two generations back the Poujadists, where her father got his start in politics, were saying much the same things.

This is simply not a good idea:

In a speech on Wednesday, Le Pen laid out the nationalist policies based on “economic patriotism” that would be put enacted if she wins the two-round presidential election.

They include a tax of up to 35 percent for French companies that produce their goods elsewhere then reimport them. Companies that respect the made-in-France label end-to-end would be compensated.

To create jobs, Le Pen wants to make the “reconquest” of French markets a priority.

She said: “No country has ever succeeded in building its industry without protecting it.”

Protectionism is to ignore the very point of trade itself. Which is that it is gaining access to those imports themselves which is what makes us richer. Sure, Donald Trump doesn't understand that, an awful lot of people don't understand it but it is still true:

French far-right presidential candidate Marine Le Pen will make employers who hire foreigners pay a tax worth 10 percent of the salary paid to those people, her second-in-command said on Friday.

Florian Philippot said the tax would apply to non-nationals, including citizens of other European Union countries.

"Alternatively, he (an employer) can hire a French national and avoid having to pay the tax," Philippot told RTL radio.

That's slightly less absurd. It's still not something that aids the economy but it just introduces a mild price difference between hiring a foreigner or an indigene.

Le Pen, who is currently jockeying for the top spot in polls with independent centrist Emmanuel Macron, also wants to pull France out of the European Union and the euro currency.

Those two ideas obviously I agree with. But for me the idea of being out of the European Union, as with Brexit, is so as to be able to declare unilateral free trade. For that's what makes us richer. We produce what we can and then we've the pick of the best of the world that we can have as imports. And why would we want to tax ourselves on the very purchases we want to make?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2017/03/04/marine-le-pens-absurdly-nationalistic-economic-plans/#1e8af0b45294

[roberth]

Of course it'll all be moot if the muslims gain control of France. I think that is the #1 problem in Europe, the muslim invasion.

[buffalobo]

Of course it'll all be moot if the muslims gain control of France. I think that is the #1 problem in Europe, the muslim invasion.
Along with political correctness.

If you're unarmed, you are a victim

[roberth]

And some more.


France arguably is the mother of modern progressivism; it is the French who gave us the concept of "right" and "left"; it is the French Revolution, not its elder American sister, that has served as the model for revolution for the past two hundred years all over the world. Prog talk (To the ramparts!) is full of references--see Marx--to the French Revolution of 1789, and to the Paris revolts of 1832, 1848, and 1968. The progs are drawn to the grotesque dramatics and hypocrisies of the French Revolution, where terror, mass murder, and imperial wars were launched in the name of freedom and brotherhood. Why? Because there was a self-annoited arrogant "intellectual" elite in charge of all things, in charge, most notably, of shaping the sans-culots into progressive killing machines at the beck-and-call of the revolutionary elite. Progs see themselves as the inheritors of that elite. Lest we forget, France, more than any other country, is the producer of the original cigarette-smoking, beret-wearing "radical intellectual," e.g., Camus, Sartre, de Beauvoir, who questioned and derided everything about the very bourgeois society that gave them fame and, in many cases, riches.

http://www.thediplomad.com/2017/04/le-seisme.html

The sentence I bolded is EXACTLY what the (D) in this country does, they deride the very systems that brought them to the current pinnacle of human development.

[DavieD55]

And some more.



http://www.thediplomad.com/2017/04/le-seisme.html

The sentence I bolded is EXACTLY what the (D) in this country does, they deride the very systems that brought them to the current pinnacle of human development.


Like parasites living off of a host mechanism...

[Great-Kazoo]

Like parasites living off of a host mechanism...

The Borg

[Aloha_Shooter]

Hmmm ... I am not familiar at all with French politics but wasn't Macron the Finance Minister or Deputy Finance Minister for Hollande? The Forbes article claims her economic policies are a sure way to make France poorer but Hollande's policies already did that -- and how much more left can she be than increasing income taxes to 75% like Hollande did? If he's such a centrist and she's a leftist in economic policy, why did didn't he fight Hollande's Socialist "economics"? The excerpts from the Forbes article sound like she is protectionist but that's essentially the heart of the argument in funding government through tariffs rather than income taxes. Of course, using tariffs as the main funding mechanism is a good way to limit the size of government because it's hard to pay for governmental growth when people can self-limit what they spend on imports ... but what they don't spend on imports, they can spend on domestic production, keeping the money circulating internally. You don't stop needing to eat or wear clothes just because it costs more to import stuff ...

[roberth]

Aloha_Shooter - you raise some good questions. Were I French I'd be voting for Le Pen. Obama endorsed Macron, reason enough to go with Le Pen.

Nationalism is not a dirty word as some would have us believe. I am an American nationalist, capitalist, and constitutionalist.

[Bailey Guns]

Aloha_Shooter - you raise some good questions. Were I French I'd be voting for Le Pen. Obama endorsed Macron, reason enough to go with Le Pen.

Nationalism is not a dirty word as some would have us believe. I am an American nationalist, capitalist, and constitutionalist.

Damn right. I'd vote for the devil himself if Obama endorsed his opponent.

America first, bitches.

[CS1983]

Damn right. I'd vote for the devil himself if Obama endorsed his opponent.

America first, bitches.

What if Obama endorsed the opponent in order for you to not vote for the opponent, to reverse psych gain votes for his Master?

[roberth]

What if Obama endorsed the opponent in order for you to not vote for the opponent, to reverse psych gain votes for his Master?

[LOL] Oh you sneaky crafty devil.

[Bailey Guns]

What if Obama endorsed the opponent in order for you to not vote for the opponent, to reverse psych gain votes for his Master?

Shit. I'd probably vote libertarian.

[Aloha_Shooter]

What if Obama endorsed the opponent in order for you to not vote for the opponent, to reverse psych gain votes for his Master?

He's really not that smart though ...

[CS1983]

He's really not that smart though ...

But what if his handlers are that smart...

[Great-Kazoo]

But what if his handlers are that smart...

They're too busy with the russkies.

[clodhopper]

Nationalism is not a dirty word as some would have us believe.

It all comes down to how you define it. That word has quite a range. What we understand as "Nationalism" is not at all how those on the other side understand the word and it's usage. Language landmine.

[Bailey Guns]

Well, yeah. Progs do that. Just like they use the term "women's health care" to define abortion. In my opinion it's not about understanding the language or a particular definition of a word, it's about fabricating a lie your base will believe. They've done the same thing with gun control/gun safety. One didn't work so they tried a different approach, but to progs the mission is the same. Outlaw gun ownership.

[roberth]

It all comes down to how you define it. That word has quite a range. What we understand as "Nationalism" is not at all how those on the other side understand the word and it's usage. Language landmine.

Nationalism means exactly what it says, the person stands for their country and no other. Now if you add a word like socialism for instance, then that person is a worm-bait nazi cockbreath. I add the word capitalism and that makes America and me the WINNER.

[Great-Kazoo]

It all comes down to how you define it. That word has quite a range. What we understand as "Nationalism" is not at all how those on the other side understand the word and it's usage. Language landmine.


We know Nationalism as America First. "They" see it as National Socialist. Something they're in denial about. As they rampage through the streets of Berkley, re-enacting the same thing they're claiming to be against.

Just wait till they recreate the Reichstag fire, blaming it on a Timothy McVeigh copycat.

[roberth]

Obama's guy, Macron, won the election.

[Great-Kazoo]

Obama's guy, Macron, won the election.

Longue durée d'islam