A short story and some questions..

[GreenScoutII]

Hi all. As I've been recently laid off yet again, I find myself with a lot of computer time and time to reflect on things. I've been thinking a lot about the economy, politics, and our second amendment rights. I find myself wondering about how we, as a nation, came to be in this mess. I wonder what has to be done to get us out of it. I hear politicians and other so called experts with thier various theories, but I wonder what do the regular guys think. I realize we are a multitude of different ages and professional backgrounds, so we might have different opinions. That is a good thing. So, I'd like to hear what you all have to say about the following questions:

1. What is the root cause of this current economic situation? Is it as bad as some might lead us to believe? What needs to be done to correct the problem(s)?

2. What about President Obama? Is he as bad as some of us might think he is? Does anyone agree with some of his ideas? What will be the long term legacy of the Obama administration?

3. With the recent Supreme court ruling deciding the right to keep and bear arms is an individual right, what do you think the long term results of that ruling will be? Do you fear we will end up with European style restrictions? Do you think we might be headed the other way; Ie. repeal of the Firearms act of 1934, the Gun Control Act of 1968, etc.

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts on these points. I'm curious to learn where different people stand on these issues.

[Daniel_187]

It's all Bush's Fault LOL

[SA Friday]

1. I'm not sure anyone acutally knows the answer to why the economy crashed. A part of it was credit was handed out like candy for years. This led to large financial losses to banks. Another part is the gradual changing of our work force due to illegal immigration. You used to be able to support a family working construction. Now you can't. The impact of the this scenario across the spectrum of blue collar jobs is pretty severe. I'm sure there are a lot of other factors, these are the two that I see.

2. The only thing Obama has done so far in his political life has been the credit card reform bill he recently proposed. I don't even know know if it passed or not, but I saw it as a potential benefit. Credit cards are more dangerous than any gun made. As for the rest of it; many of our founding fathers have rolled over in their graves.

3. These questions remain to be answered. European type restrictions will not fly in this country, but I suspect some restriction will. Judge Kennedy referred to it as 'baggage along the way' in the DC vs Heller ruling. Other rulings concerning the second ammendment since then are the baggage. Until there is a definate line drawn in the sand as to where the individual right ends, there will be no stabilization of the second ammendment and you will have both sides fighting as to where the line will be drawn. The new Chicago case being heard at the Supreme Court level may address where the line should be. Then again, they may simply determine the correctness or incorrectness of the lower courts findings and call it a day. Either way, it's a second bite at the apple IMO, and that's never good when you won the first time.

[theGinsue]

1. What is the root cause of this current economic situation? Is it as bad as some might lead us to believe? What needs to be done to correct the problem(s)?

Cause: Greed, pure and simple. People want more than they can afford and the credit lenders want the interest money they expect to gain by loaning the money. When the lenders see an opportunity to pawn off the debt to another lender for more money, they package up some good risks with plenty of bad risks and sell it off to another lender who thinks they'll see an unearned profit.

Is it as bad as some might lead us to believe: Absolutely.

What needs to be done to correct the problem(s)?: First off, the government needs to stay out of it and allow capitalism to take it's course. Those companies who are strong and wise enough will survive, those who aren't will collapse. This is as it should be.

Regarding personal economics, Americans are starting to wake up and are starting to save money and not spend so foolishly. Those who fail to live within their means will lose everything.


2. What about President Obama? Is he as bad as some of us might think he is? Does anyone agree with some of his ideas? What will be the long term legacy of the Obama administration?

I believe that President Obama IS as bas as many think he is. He has no regard for personal liberties and his socialist concept of what America should be spells doom for the greatest nation on Earth.

I agree with SA Friday about the Credit reform. It has a lot of potential.
I also think that some reform is needed in our health care system. Mostly, I think we need Tort reform.

As far as Obama's leagacy, it's too early to tell for sure but the way he's headed leads me to believe that he will be remembered as the worst President in U.S. history - by leaps and bounds beyond Carter.


3. With the recent Supreme court ruling deciding the right to keep and bear arms is an individual right, what do you think the long term results of that ruling will be? Do you fear we will end up with European style restrictions? Do you think we might be headed the other way; Ie. repeal of the Firearms act of 1934, the Gun Control Act of 1968, etc.

The Supreme Court decision in the Heller vs the DIstrict of Columbia was far too watered down and wishey-washey to truly carry any teeth. It was a step, albeit SMALL step, in the right direction. With pending suits on the docket for the SCOTUS, we may see something more substantial to re-enforce our 2A rights. I'm not too hopeful of that either though. What I think will happen is that many more states will flex their rights and adopt stronger 2A-like protections for their people. At the same time, I expect states like Kalifornia and Illinois to continue to erode individual rights.

[GreenScoutII]

Thanks Friday and Ginsue, I appreciate your thoughts. My own are along the same lines. I think the crash was caused by two main causes:
1. The abuse and over use of credit.
2. The transformation of our economy from an industrial/production base to one based on services.

The way I see it the use of credit has expanded into too many areas. I mean, a guy could charge his lunch at McDonalds! Does anyone not see a problem with this? Also, because dang near everything can be purchased on time, the prices of many things have gone up dramatically. What I mean is, when a person is buying a tv for example, he doesn't necessarily stop to consider that the TV is $3500, only that his monthly payment is $150. I'm not even counting interest in this scenario. That same TV might be sold for quite a bit less if financing it were not an option.

Another form of credit abuse happened frequently in the housing industry. When banks and other mortgage lenders started to offer exotic loans and "creative financing" to ordinary consumers, it allowed these consumers to qualify for loans much larger than they would otherwise have been approved for. In turn, home builders started selling houses for much more than they otherwise would have been able to get for them. I have first hand experience with this. I plumbed literally hundreds of them in Colorado Springs. Most of these weren't anything special, just ordinary tract houses. I was astonished by how much they were selling for and by how people were lining up to buy them. When my wife and I were in the market for a larger house due to our growing family, we spoke to a couple of sales offices. We could have qualified for one of these interest only or ARM loans very easily and would have had a modest and affordable payment but only for a time. I'll be forever gratefull we didn't get sucked into this!

The point is, as Ginsue mentioned, greed. Both on the part of consumers and on the part of business. Both sides gambled, both sides lost and now, damn near everyone is screwed.

As for our changing economy, we have allowed far too many jobs to be moved overseas. At first it was just manufacturing type jobs. Not too many people noticed or cared because they bought into the lie that it would mean better prices on everything from textiles to automobiles. When white collar jobs started being outsourced, some of us started to wake up and ask questions. This is something I also have first hand experience with. My wife is a financial analyist with one of the largest computer/tech companies. Decent salary, decent benefits, not a bad deal. Her employer is sending every last job it can to India, Bangalore, and other third world countries. Management recieves large bonuses while highly qualified professionals with post graduate degrees lose thier jobs in droves. This is disgusting, immoral, and inexcuseable. They way I see it, off-shoring is an act of treason. Period. We, as a nation, need to be more competitive economically with other countries, but not at the expense of our own citizens. Rant finished...

As for President Obama, while I like to believe his heart is in the right place, his head is buried deeply up his ass. I believe he was elected because people are desparate for "change". Well, now we're going to get it, but I'm not sure our nation will survive it though. I do appreciate his efforts on credit reform, but at least as I understand it, his reforms thus far have no real teeth. I appreciate his intent to create jobs, specifically funding infrastructure. Roads, bridges, and the maintenence of them are the type of thing our tax dollars are supposed to be used for. However, his hostility toward business will not end well for anybody. A nation cannot tax it's self into prosperity..

Finally, as for gun rights, I hope this administration will take notice of the recent blizzard of activity by gun owners. Let me be clear: I do not wish for any kind of armed rebellion. I do hope they will realize it could potentially be very ugly for everybody if they try outright bans or confiscation. They will probably continue with the same slow erosion approach they've been using since 1934.

Anyway, I'd still like to hear the thoughts and opinions of the others here. Thanks for taking the time to read my long winded rant!

[Rampart Runner]

1. What is the root cause of this current economic situation? Is it as bad as some might lead us to believe? What needs to be done to correct the problem(s)?The economic situation is the direct result of decades long monetary policy, including but not limited to fractional reserve lending, of the Federal Reserve. period.

The legislative and executive branch of the Federal government has been complicit in the self serving and dangerous policies of the Federal Reserve. Both major parties over the decades have allowed the blowing of bubbles. When these bubbles start to burst i.e. dot com bust they start an new bubble...like housing.

Now they, the Fed Res., are trying to inflate their way out this necessary deflationary period by buying toxic and worthless assets from banks, finance houses, etc and hiding them( avoiding true price discovery AKA 'mark to market') while issuing treasury notes in their place.

They have along with both democrats and republicans in the last two administrations taken your tax money and given it to financial institutions and for collateral they have taken either nothing or taken wothless and unmarketable securities such as tranches of failed mortgages, CDOs, CDSs etc.

The Federal Government has decided to try to replace all of the normal business activity that has disappeared. They are spending and borrowing to try to keep the economy from collapsing, (think GM).

They try to get folks to borrow but now the populace and business realize that they are broke and can't borrow...if they can borrow they realize it is foolish at this moment to go into debt.

Now we have a huge increase in deficit spending and the interest alone on the debt is dangerously close to encompassing all of the tax revenue the government collects at the exact time that we are experiencing deflation. The Federal Reserve needs to inflate the dollar in order to pay off the likes of Japan and China, who buy our debt. why inflate? Because inflated dollars are ...worth less ( they automagically create them...what would be called counterfeiting if you or I did it.)...too many though and the dollars become worthless. They are walking a tight rope.

what can be done?

Repeal the Federal Reserve Act.
Allow competing currencies.
Get back to the constitution: To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures.

Let me state that We will never pay our debt and will default without sufficient inflation.

Do you understand the implication of default?

Do you understand the implication of inflation sufficient to pay off the debt?

RR

[GreenScoutII]

Thank you Rampart. That is excellent food for thought. One thing I have pondered over the years is was it a good idea for FDR to have taken our currency off the gold standard? I'm not sure one way or the other, maybe you could shed some light? It seems to tie in with what you were saying about inflation.

[Rampart Runner]

FDRs decision to go off the gold standard did not occur in a vacuum. He and those who backed him felt it was necessary in order to avoid bank runs (redeeming paper for real gold, remember there was no FDIC at that time) and the almost sure collapse from the ever escalating panic.

The real question to ask is what role the Federal Reserve had in creating a situation where by things got so tenuous that it seemed absolutely necessary to go off the gold standard. Could it have been avoided in the first place? I have my opinion.

I would argue that the main cause of the Depression was the expansion of the money supply during the 20s that led to an unsustainable credit-fueled boom...much like today's situation. I am a monetarist of the Austrian school in this regard.

My problem is with fiat money not necessarily with not using gold. Fiat is false. It is favored by Republicans and Democrats alike because it allows them to create money to spend beyond that which they tax you. It allows them to steal your wealth by making every 'dollar' you save or earn to become less valuable...they take that part of your lost value and SPEND it. Each party likes big government, despite rhetoric to the contrary by Republicans, they only differ in how and who they spend the money on. Right now they both parties like to spend your money on Investment Banks especially the likes of Goldman Sachs.

America is being played.

The greatest transfer of wealth in the history of the USA is occurring at this very moment. Then leadership of both parties have been bought and paid for and they are obeying their masters to the detriment of the citizenry.

Money talks and the Federal Reserve along with the investment houses have all the money.

I've ranted enough.

RR