Retaining Wall

[KevDen2005]

I'm looking to build a retaining wall soon, about 50 to 55 feet total, about 2.5 feet tall. Wondering if anyone knows where to get a good deal on retaining wall blocks.....

And if anyone wants to give assistance throughout the project. I have watched a lot of videos but never built one before.

[00tec]

Roller auctions usually has several pallets of pavestone about once a month. Hit or miss on the wall block.
I got 2 pallets of 6x6 and 6x9 pavers for around $250. Would have been $654 at Home Depot for the same pavers.

[Grant H.]

Call some of the block casters around. They run test runs of various styles at different times, and then sell them off cheap when they don't have a customer for the test run. I got mine from Boral Best Block on the south edge of Denver.

I bought these for $1.50/ea, and used them to completely redo my backyard. These would be total overkill for your project, but they were great for me where I ended up with a wall that was 5' tall at it's highest point. The down side? Each one of these weighs 100lbs, and they use fiberglass pins to connect the layers. The pins made great work of keeping them located, but they added some cost.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8255/8874341481_cf1891384c_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ewcjxB)First layer and yard carnage (https://flic.kr/p/ewcjxB) by ARNEWB (https://www.flickr.com/photos/61071044@N08/), on Flickr
https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5335/8874960594_a3ba62d1c1_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ewfuzY)Wall mostly assembled (https://flic.kr/p/ewfuzY) by ARNEWB (https://www.flickr.com/photos/61071044@N08/), on Flickr

These are actually spec'd and used for highway overpass retaining walls and such, but for the price, I couldn't beat it.

[Erni]

Call some of the block casters around. They run test runs of various styles at different times, and then sell them off cheap when they don't have a customer for the test run. I got mine from Boral Best Block on the south edge of Denver.

I bought these for $1.50/ea, and used them to completely redo my backyard. These would be total overkill for your project, but they were great for me where I ended up with a wall that was 5' tall at it's highest point. The down side? Each one of these weighs 100lbs, and they use fiberglass pins to connect the layers. The pins made great work of keeping them located, but they added some cost.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8255/8874341481_cf1891384c_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ewcjxB)First layer and yard carnage (https://flic.kr/p/ewcjxB) by ARNEWB (https://www.flickr.com/photos/61071044@N08/), on Flickr
https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5335/8874960594_a3ba62d1c1_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ewfuzY)Wall mostly assembled (https://flic.kr/p/ewfuzY) by ARNEWB (https://www.flickr.com/photos/61071044@N08/), on Flickr

These are actually spec'd and used for highway overpass retaining walls and such, but for the price, I couldn't beat it.
Dang, that would make a kick arse window well.

[KevDen2005]

For $1.50 each? That is insane.

[ray1970]

We just did a retaining wall at work. The reinforced concrete blocks are roughly 2.5' thick and about 2.5 or 3 feet tall and about four feet long. Serious, heavy duty stuff. And I found out they are only $50 each. If it weren't for the fact that they weigh 3,000 lbs that's what I'd use.

[00tec]

We just did a retaining wall at work. The reinforced concrete blocks are roughly 2.5' thick and about 2.5 or 3 feet tall and about four feet long. Serious, heavy duty stuff. And I found out they are only $50 each. If it weren't for the fact that they weigh 3,000 lbs that's what I'd use.
These should do the trick.
http://www.repurposedmaterialsinc.com/concrete-blocks/den-concrete-blocks-2-x-2-x-6/

[ray1970]

These should do the trick.
http://www.repurposedmaterialsinc.com/concrete-blocks/den-concrete-blocks-2-x-2-x-6/

Those look just like the ones we got at work. Ours look more like four footers though. And I was told by the guy that purchased them that they were $50 each. Maybe we got a quantity discount?

[KevDen2005]

Due to a very very busy summer and contractors that were apparently just as busy if not more busy I did not get my retaining wall built. So I'm starting early to try and schedule one to be built this spring.

While I have been asking around someone mentioned to me the thought of a concrete retaining wall instead of brick. Does anyone have any experience with that?

[husky390]

Concrete is going to be stupid expensive. I've had two of my concrete subs out for quotes and will be building a block retaining wall. YRMV, but be sure to refer us to the guy you use if you go concrete.

I'm going to go to the Home Depot Pro Desk and see what kind of deal I can get on the blocks. Menards too as they will sometimes offer free shipping.


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[KevDen2005]

Concrete is going to be stupid expensive. I've had two of my concrete subs out for quotes and will be building a block retaining wall. YRMV, but be sure to refer us to the guy you use if you go concrete.

I'm going to go to the Home Depot Pro Desk and see what kind of deal I can get on the blocks. Menards too as they will sometimes offer free shipping.


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A couple were trying to convince me that concrete would be a lot less expensive than block

[BPTactical]

With concrete you will have other factors to consider, footing, deadmen/tiebacks, hydraulic pressure and weep holes, joints and the inevitable cracking.
Do the blocks Kevin, all you need is a good sand bed that is compacted and level. The blocks setback so for a 2 ft height tiebacks/deadmen aren't necessary, hydraulic pressure / water will weep naturally through the cracks and cracking will not be an issue.
When we did the BIL's wall it was about 4ft tall and 30ft long. On the 6th course we sandwiched plastic fencing in between the blocks and buried it into the slope for a tieback. A dab of polyurethane adhesive on the cap blocks to make sure they stayed put.

[Grant H.]

A couple were trying to convince me that concrete would be a lot less expensive than block

Grey concrete that is then stained can/would be cheaper, but as Bert called out, it is a different kind of animal from a whole project aspect. I explored the idea of a dry poured wall, with rock/stone outlines cut into it, but with the deal I got on the blocks, it was a no brainer.

The block route is pretty painless, and leaves a nicely finished face.

[husky390]

Almost done with the base layer.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180415/5975d69c44d2b98a1dc38a9fd24b5ae4.jpg

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[husky390]

Base layer is finished. Now to backfill and wait for the rest of my block to be delivered.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180416/49bc4d8bb68799e865152644018cc019.jpg


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[Irving]

How tall are you going to build? Are you just waiting for caps at this point?

[husky390]

Approximately 4'. I'm currently waiting for Home Depot to get their crap together and deliver the remainder of my order consisting of 160 more blocks which will add two more rows to what I currently have. Then we'll assess if I need another row. After that, backfill, lay down fill dirt, weed mat, rock, then cap the blocks. Plus build a gate.

[KevDen2005]

You should really consider building me one as well. It would be hard work and I would pay very poorly. It would be fun.

[husky390]

You should really consider building me one as well. It would be hard work and I would pay very poorly. It would be fun.

LMAO. The worst part is getting the first layer squared and level in the pit of misery, dilly, dilly. After that, it's not so bad but then, I'm fortunate in that my buddy is loaning me his skidsteer.


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[Irving]

You should really consider building me one as well. It would be hard work and I would pay very poorly. It would be fun.

Maybe you could finally run that natural gas line to your grill at the same time.

[KevDen2005]

Maybe you could finally run that natural gas line to your grill at the same time.

I think I would be able to run the gas line before or after the retaining wall. It would really not hinder any access to the meter or locations that the gas line would have to enter the house

[husky390]

Third course down and started the fourth. I think the base layer shifted a little with the recent moisture we had.

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[Grant H.]

Looking good!

The ground the base layer sits on has to be undisturbed, or compacted very well, for larger walls.

We made sure to set the base layer of mine (posted earlier) on undisturbed dirt, with the thinnest layer of sand for leveling. It worked out well. Where I didn't do that (where I wrapped a second level back to make a garden bed) they have settled a little.

[husky390]

Looking good!

The ground the base layer sits on has to be undisturbed, or compacted very well, for larger walls.

We made sure to set the base layer of mine (posted earlier) on undisturbed dirt, with the thinnest layer of sand for leveling. It worked out well. Where I didn't do that (where I wrapped a second level back to make a garden bed) they have settled a little.

Thanks. I'm hoping to be done stacking by Friday and will start grading and backfilling this weekend.


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[TheGrey]

We've got to do a retaining wall in the back yard; the slope gets more severe every year.

We were thinking more along the lines of landscaping timber. Looking at the photos, I'm wondering if blocks are a better bet.

husky390, wanna job? You're good at yard stuff. :)

[Irving]

This is what you can look forward to with wood timbers.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/qeL8kKGYw5LbyWFFI74lFs9fS2UAOA3lBa2YhWyANZjXKYYlfY ajm_J0qwdj4zbVRpg8r8b4xFJHuLnhoKCXdmAh8O1XY5hfSiP8 kmW-qrSVbP62cxs7X4WQV9N5Spxhuzsm2FTjdMGNd2NJ2vg5cIPvlx N0xhXTIcbbKtItzzlG90pHeUP4Z0dcS2lL2M68NukOfhLb6Xe3 gM3MH-BC7tAuPsW6GcFDPoxSSIXL1ER6Ez6t7379b8xv851sfrLVJBX0 ui9s8xJGRnF0CCJdVRxjQlwXvDJ-knR4PFy21WIq1nJde7fQaVburuZmkTPDIwJ6jVZgE10KExNfNS _cCnuyHn6VXr_koRJ-_NZZBrd9k483hJuMORuZZ5_3SkCRiL2RYtBN2gSBtT_VONjRGV QSnRwOXaLyGe8rz_pw-r_LJmvHzSl7IFo-BLmG-jD4jlTgaxnS6oqjftGC17Z8PYNQ1m70cFKjp6uAkG8ojo1G2GW XYMnP24a7PogI-1pdn5OSUkzAC146cQyIPEt1kmqv0UaZ4FfP-8vPBXSljxIF4qhUmhSuuDcTITorfSEZ3RTR7Xh0dnB3W3sLTzW VZP5CtegWAy837DumUQXd8OnyoiUXA_uYtFmm4-Xl6C_dJWOvdwSTuhJVNf4npxCeqtpV_W4fNyW32A=w1632-h918-no

[husky390]

We've got to do a retaining wall in the back yard; the slope gets more severe every year.

We were thinking more along the lines of landscaping timber. Looking at the photos, I'm wondering if blocks are a better bet.

husky390, wanna job? You're good at yard stuff. :)

If you're planning to be there awhile, I'd go block as Irving pointed out the issues with timber. The PO of my house built a timber retaining wall along the fence line in my backyard but never deadmanned it so I get the fun job of pulling two timbers, deadman it and rebuild. I'd love to do block but there are buried power lines right where I need to dig so that's not happening.

No, I'm good with my little project and definitely not good enough to charge someone money. [emoji23]



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[TheGrey]

This is what you can look forward to with wood timbers.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/qeL8kKGYw5LbyWFFI74lFs9fS2UAOA3lBa2YhWyANZjXKYYlfY ajm_J0qwdj4zbVRpg8r8b4xFJHuLnhoKCXdmAh8O1XY5hfSiP8 kmW-qrSVbP62cxs7X4WQV9N5Spxhuzsm2FTjdMGNd2NJ2vg5cIPvlx N0xhXTIcbbKtItzzlG90pHeUP4Z0dcS2lL2M68NukOfhLb6Xe3 gM3MH-BC7tAuPsW6GcFDPoxSSIXL1ER6Ez6t7379b8xv851sfrLVJBX0 ui9s8xJGRnF0CCJdVRxjQlwXvDJ-knR4PFy21WIq1nJde7fQaVburuZmkTPDIwJ6jVZgE10KExNfNS _cCnuyHn6VXr_koRJ-_NZZBrd9k483hJuMORuZZ5_3SkCRiL2RYtBN2gSBtT_VONjRGV QSnRwOXaLyGe8rz_pw-r_LJmvHzSl7IFo-BLmG-jD4jlTgaxnS6oqjftGC17Z8PYNQ1m70cFKjp6uAkG8ojo1G2GW XYMnP24a7PogI-1pdn5OSUkzAC146cQyIPEt1kmqv0UaZ4FfP-8vPBXSljxIF4qhUmhSuuDcTITorfSEZ3RTR7Xh0dnB3W3sLTzW VZP5CtegWAy837DumUQXd8OnyoiUXA_uYtFmm4-Xl6C_dJWOvdwSTuhJVNf4npxCeqtpV_W4fNyW32A=w1632-h918-no

Well, crap.

Yeah, guess I'd better stick with blocks, because we're not moving unless the zombies come.

I've got to call and have the guys come look and see if we have power lines or gas lines in the back.

[TheGrey]

If you're planning to be there awhile, I'd go block as Irving pointed out the issues with timber. The PO of my house built a timber retaining wall along the fence line in my backyard but never deadmanned it so I get the fun job of pulling two timbers, deadman it and rebuild. I'd love to do block but there are buried power lines right where I need to dig so that's not happening.

No, I'm good with my little project and definitely not good enough to charge someone money. [emoji23]



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Okay, but I do appreciate those photos and the explanation of your progress. :)

[Irving]

If I remember correctly, those timbers were well under 10 years old. I want to say less than 5.

[TheGrey]

If I remember correctly, those timbers were well under 10 years old. I want to say less than 5.

We've got some in the yard that are well over 10 years old, and look pretty good. But I don;t think they'll be up to the strain of holding in the slowly-collapsing upper yard much longer.

[Irving]

I don't want to poo poo timbers too much, as most of the ones I've seen are decades old. The ones pictured came with a story of a crappy contractor job all around as well.

[Mtneer]

We have waist high timber retaining walls that are almost 25 years old and still going strong. I suspect the contractor bought from a real lumber yard. The wood at Home Depot/Lowes is garbage.

[husky390]

Well, crap.

Yeah, guess I'd better stick with blocks, because we're not moving unless the zombies come.

I've got to call and have the guys come look and see if we have power lines or gas lines in the back.

Definitely worth it to call 811.

For block, I shopped around and received the best deal from Home Depot's Pro Desk. I rented the excavator from Chatfield Time rentals and transported myself using their trailer and my 3/4 ton Suburban. A 1/2 ton truck can handle the smaller excavator that I rented on the second weekend. Gravel and fill dirt is being purchased through Santa Fe sand and gravel.

Pro tip. If you have to carry the blocks by hand, start staging them from the furthest point to the closest point to where the blocks are stored. I got excited and did the opposite and by the time I was staging at the furthest point, my grip was shot. Being chained to a desk has made me soft. [emoji23]


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[TheGrey]

Definitely worth it to call 811.

For block, I shopped around and received the best deal from Home Depot's Pro Desk. I rented the excavator from Chatfield Time rentals and transported myself using their trailer and my 3/4 ton Suburban. A 1/2 ton truck can handle the smaller excavator that I rented on the second weekend. Gravel and fill dirt is being purchased through Santa Fe sand and gravel.

Pro tip. If you have to carry the blocks by hand, start staging them from the furthest point to the closest point to where the blocks are stored. I got excited and did the opposite and by the time I was staging at the furthest point, my grip was shot. Being chained to a desk has made me soft. [emoji23]


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Thanks for the tips!

I think this will be one thing that I end up hiring out- our yard has a terrible slope that is getting more terrible as the years go by. I can do some gruntwork, but this may be beyond my abilities.

Home Depot beat Santa Fe Sand & Gravel for block? That's amazing!

[Grant H.]

Thanks for the tips!

I think this will be one thing that I end up hiring out- our yard has a terrible slope that is getting more terrible as the years go by. I can do some gruntwork, but this may be beyond my abilities.

Home Depot beat Santa Fe Sand & Gravel for block? That's amazing!

I'll second calling 811. It's free to you, and while they aren't perfect (not even close) they'll give you a good idea...

When you say your yard has a terrible slope, how steep of an angle are you talking about?
How tall of a wall do you need?
How long of a wall do you need?

These will help determine if your wall is really a DIY project or not. Depending on the details, you might have to add geogrid fabric in between layers of block to provide a tieback support.

This is what my backyard looked like when we first bought the place, and we ended up with almost 5' of wall in the far corner of the picture. (I need to get a picture of the yard now...)

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7381/8874942674_5ce0d65d38_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ewfpg1)How it started (https://flic.kr/p/ewfpg1) by ARNEWB (https://www.flickr.com/photos/61071044@N08/), on Flickr

As for timber vs block, I would strongly suggest block. As Mtneer said, getting good enough treated lumber to survive long term anymore is nearly impossible. Pressure treating of wood has been wussified, as with most things anymore, compared to the past. If you can get actual creosote soaked railroad ties, maybe. But even those are hard to get your hands on now.

And yeah, Husky is 100% right: Plan the project out, and stage your materials with thought and care. It makes a huge difference in the labor required for a project like this. I had the advantage of owning a bobcat, which helped dramatically in moving the 18,000lbs of concrete blocks that I put in the back yard.

If you're buying in bulk, HD can put some pretty good pricing together. It's worth shopping all possible sources, even if you have a contractor do the work, so that you know what the blocks will cost and what the labor is costing you. The contractor might be able to get better pricing, but doing your own research helps.

[husky390]

Thanks for the tips!

I think this will be one thing that I end up hiring out- our yard has a terrible slope that is getting more terrible as the years go by. I can do some gruntwork, but this may be beyond my abilities.

Home Depot beat Santa Fe Sand & Gravel for block? That's amazing!

I took my HD quote to SFSG to see if they could come close and they said they couldn't and that I was getting a helluva deal. The difference was about $1,000


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[Bailey Guns]

I don't have any advice to offer in this thread. But I do have a retaining wall story.

My elderly neighbor wants to extend his block retaining wall (you can see in the first photo). He needed about 5' of the embankment cut back. He wanted to use some of the dirt to fill in a low area in front of his carport to remove the 5" lip from the gravel to the concrete. We also built a drain into the area in front of the carport. We compacted the dirt and re-spread the gravel afterwards and it turned out pretty good for an amateur.

Bottom line? I got to play dirt-mover-man with the tractor and practice on someone else's property! I have a newfound respect for guys that operate equipment and move dirt. It's much harder than I thought it would be and you really have to pay attention every single second to what's going on all around you. But, it was fun and I helped a friend/neighbor.

Building a retaining wall itself is completely outside of any set of skills I have. Short of calling contractors I wouldn't even know where to start. Good luck.

74543

74544

[husky390]

Operating the equipment is the best part and you're right, it's not as easy as it looks. Especially digging a trench that's straight and the same depth.


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[Irving]

I don't have any advice to offer in this thread. But I do have a retaining wall story.

My elderly neighbor wants to extend his block retaining wall (you can see in the first photo). He needed about 5' of the embankment cut back. He wanted to use some of the dirt to fill in a low area in front of his carport to remove the 5" lip from the gravel to the concrete. We also built a drain into the area in front of the carport. We compacted the dirt and re-spread the gravel afterwards and it turned out pretty good for an amateur.

Bottom line? I got to play dirt-mover-man with the tractor and practice on someone else's property! I have a newfound respect for guys that operate equipment and move dirt. It's much harder than I thought it would be and you really have to pay attention every single second to what's going on all around you. But, it was fun and I helped a friend/neighbor.

Building a retaining wall itself is completely outside of any set of skills I have. Short of calling contractors I wouldn't even know where to start. Good luck.

74543

74544

Did you put this up on your homesteading youtube channel?

[husky390]

8 yards of dirt is not much. That's what I learned today. I need to add some teeth to the skid steer so I can rip the ground where I need to lower the grade near the house. But, all courses are laid and I'm ordering 14 yards of dirt to finish or get close to backfilling.

My helper.

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[Grant H.]

Yeah, it's amazing how much dirt an area like that can take up.

I would try and get the sandiest stuff you have next to the wall, to aid in drainage.

[husky390]

Will do.


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[Irving]

Do you not have to mortar a wall like that? That sure speeds things up!

[Grant H.]

Do you not have to mortar a wall like that? That sure speeds things up!

Nope.

It's not real easy to see in Husky's pictures, but the blocks have a lip that hangs down in the back and ties them to the layer below.

[Irving]

That makes it even faster because you're just pushing until the lip meets and don't have to worry about having every row be even.

[husky390]

That makes it even faster because you're just pushing until the lip meets and don't have to worry about having every row be even.

That's why my blocks are staggered so that they can lock in place unlike a CMU wall that is flush.


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[husky390]

More dirt. So far I've ordered 23 yards. I need to rent something that can scrape the ground next to my house and driveway. This little skid steer doesn't have teeth and the flat bucket isn't cutting it. Any suggestions?

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[Grant H.]

Best suggestion I've got is a bigger skid steer.

For landscaping, I don't find the rock bar all that useful on our skid steer, unless dealing with really rocky soil. Otherwise, the cutting edge of the bucket does a pretty good job.

With the little skid steer, have you tried pulling the bucket up, tilting it all the way down and then lowering it back down to scrape? Often, with the bucket like that, you can get the front tires of the skid steer off the ground and it will do a pretty good job of pulling a layer of dirt with it.

[buffalobo]

Taggart teeth or bigger iron.

Or

"Soften" area with moisture and work at an angle to house instead of parallel or perpendicular. Use corner of cutting edge to gouge every 4' then turn around and work 90° the other way every 4'.

[husky390]

Yup, I've tried every angle, scraping, pushing, cutting at an angle and the machine is just too small and the clay is too packed. Sounds like a bigger machine is needed.


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[Grant H.]

Yup, I've tried every angle, scraping, pushing, cutting at an angle and the machine is just too small and the clay is too packed. Sounds like a bigger machine is needed.


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Clay sucks.

A bigger machine will make it easier. If ours wasn't in WY right now, I'd offer to come see if it was enough machine. But it's busy backfilling tower foundations in BFE WY.

[husky390]

Clay sucks.

A bigger machine will make it easier. If ours wasn't in WY right now, I'd offer to come see if it was enough machine. But it's busy backfilling tower foundations in BFE WY.

LOL, thanks and no problem. I can rent one from Chatfield Time Rentals. It'll probably take me longer to fill out the paperwork and transport it than it will to grade that stretch.


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[husky390]

Made some progress this weekend. Unfortunately my little skid steer died on me last night with about 13 yards of dirt left to move. Otherwise I'd be done and ready for weed matting.

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[husky390]

Free beer, somewhere at the bottom of this pile. C'mon over......

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[jerrymrc]

Our yard was clay. I had a guy come and he knocked it out with his bobcat for $100. Yours is looking good. 75154

[husky390]

Our yard was clay. I had a guy come and he knocked it out with his bobcat for $100. Yours is looking good. 75154

Thanks man.

Looks like I'll need another 4-6 tons of rock and I should be done.

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[Irving]

When's all the sod going in?

[husky390]

When's all the sod going in?

LOL


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