View Full Version : Car jacking scenario
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQXUXcxJEr4
So in this scenario what would you do?
Is it even legal to draw and if the thief advances toward you to fire?
It's just a car, but eliminating scum of the earth is a worthy cause.
And reason #1 why you take the keys out of the ignition while fueling.
And reason #1 why you take the keys out of the ignition while fueling.
And lock your doors when you get out. Glad she's OK but damn, what do people actually think about when they leave themselves open like this?
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Great-Kazoo
05-29-2017, 23:19
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQXUXcxJEr4
So in this scenario what would you do?
Is it even legal to draw and if the thief advances toward you to fire?
It's just a car, but eliminating scum of the earth is a worthy cause.
IMO NO. Option 1 was to flight and call local LE. SHE jumped on the moving vehicle, when she could have dialed 911. ESPECIALLY with someone filming it.
Use that statement in a real life scenario. Say hello graybar hotel.
IMO NO. Option 1 was to flight and call local LE. SHE jumped on the moving vehicle, when she could have dialed 911. ESPECIALLY with someone filming it.
Use that statement in a real life scenario. Say hello graybar hotel.
I agree
ColoradoTJ
05-30-2017, 06:35
Just a car to me. 500.00 and I will let USAA deal with it.
Now on the flip side, don't leave the keys inside the vehicle, always keep an eye on your surroundings.
We have had a lot of car jacking a at gas stations lately in Colorado Springs and Fountain. Hell there was a teen kid that just was robbed at Love's off Fountain Mesa/I-25 not long ago. The guy took the wallet and that is it...lucky for him.
Just a car to me. 500.00 and I will let USAA deal with it.
Now on the flip side, don't leave the keys inside the vehicle, always keep an eye on your surroundings.
We have had a lot of car jacking a at gas stations lately in Colorado Springs and Fountain. Hell there was a teen kid that just was robbed at Love's off Fountain Mesa/I-25 not long ago. The guy took the wallet and that is it...lucky for him.
That's why I'm always armed as well and maintaining SA. Keys are always with me and doors are always locked whether I'm in or not.
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ColoradoTJ
05-30-2017, 06:59
That's why I'm always armed as well and maintaining SA. Keys are always with me and doors are always locked whether I'm in or not.
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Hell yeah!
I wouldn't shoot at the theif in the video though. Good way to either be broke or inprisoned (or both) for and extended stay in a state prison.
Now if the car would have been locked and keys in pocket, I wonder how the theif would have acted? Maybe he would have taken it to the next level, but then you are totally justified in helping rid the world of oxygen wasters.
Hell yeah!
I wouldn't shoot at the theif in the video though. Good way to either be broke or inprisoned (or both) for and extended stay in a state prison.
Now if the car would have been locked and keys in pocket, I wonder how the theif would have acted? Maybe he would have taken it to the next level, but then you are totally justified in helping rid the world of oxygen wasters.
Yep. In this situation let him take the car unless 2 things happen. 1 he isn't satisfied with just the vehicle or 2 he takes it and attempts to hit you with it whether intentionally or indiscriminately. Assuming there is no time to move or no where to go.
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wctriumph
05-30-2017, 07:38
I always take my keys and I am aware of my surroundings pretty much all the time. IF someone gets the drop on me and wants my car, welcome to it, it is fully insured and I don't have anything of value in the car.
If my wife is waiting for me and in the car and someone jumps in to steal it, they will most likely just jump out as fast as they jumped in and find me ready to deal with whatever situation then presents itself. Momma is no slouch and is not afraid to stand up and defend herself.
SuperiorDG
05-30-2017, 09:44
Her statement, "its definitely never how I thought I would have reacted," is revealing. I guess in her mind someone jacking her car at the gas station never crossed her mind. If it had she probably would have removed her keys and locked the damn car and it never would have come to this. I just read an article about situational awareness and if it's paranoia to be too aware and think too much about situations like getting your car jacked at a gas station. I'm sure the chances of this happening are low, but damn she's lucking that this few seconds of poor, non-planing didn't kill her.
BlasterBob
05-30-2017, 10:07
If the perp was starting to drive off with the woman on the hood, seems like he was well prepared to do some "grave bodily harm" to her especially since he hit the brakes in an attempt to knock her off. Now if there was a passenger sitting/waiting in the car, also seems like that passenger (if armed) could have held him at gun point or possibly shot the bastard to hopefully prevent him/her from seriously injuring the owner. Of course the injured perp may have hit the gas and really injured the owner. Best just NOT to leave the keys in the vehicle.
sellersm
05-30-2017, 11:10
This is a scenario that I review with my family a lot! My youngest daughter is about to get her drivers license this summer so we talk about these things often.
As stated above, lots of this happening here in the Springs & we know some folks who've been victims.
What's that old adage? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure?
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Let's add a twist to the scenario. If you had a kid in the back seat of the vehicle, everything else the same.
Is use of deadly force justified to prevent a kidnapping?
If the perp was starting to drive off with the woman on the hood, seems like he was well prepared to do some "grave bodily harm" to her especially since he hit the brakes in an attempt to knock her off. Now if there was a passenger sitting/waiting in the car, also seems like that passenger (if armed) could have held him at gun point or possibly shot the bastard to hopefully prevent him/her from seriously injuring the owner. Of course the injured perp may have hit the gas and really injured the owner. Best just NOT to leave the keys in the vehicle.
In this case, after the perp got out of the car, could someone have held him at gunpoint til police arrived? Likely would have had to deal with the scum in the get away car also.
Let's add a twist to the scenario. If you had a kid in the back seat of the vehicle, everything else the same.
Is use of deadly force justified to prevent a kidnapping?
Absolutely.
TITLE 18. CRIMINAL CODE
ARTICLE 1.PROVISIONS APPLICABLE TO OFFENSES GENERALLY
PART 7. JUSTIFICATION AND EXEMPTIONS FROM CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY
C.R.S. 18-1-704 (2016)
18-1-704. Use of physical force in defense of a person
(1) Except as provided in subsections (2) and (3) of this section, a person is justified in using physical force upon another person in order to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by that other person, and he may use a degree of force which he reasonably believes to be necessary for that purpose.
(2) Deadly physical force may be used only if a person reasonably believes a lesser degree of force is inadequate and:
(a) The actor has reasonable ground to believe, and does believe, that he or another person is in imminent danger of being killed or of receiving great bodily injury; or
(b) The other person is using or reasonably appears about to use physical force against an occupant of a dwelling or business establishment while committing or attempting to commit burglary as defined in sections 18-4-202 to 18-4-204; or
(c) The other person is committing or reasonably appears about to commit kidnapping as defined in section 18-3-301 or 18-3-302, robbery as defined in section 18-4-301 or 18-4-302, sexual assault as set forth in section 18-3-402, or in section 18-3-403 as it existed prior to July 1, 2000, or assault as defined in sections 18-3-202 and 18-3-203.
Great-Kazoo
05-30-2017, 13:05
Let's add a twist to the scenario. If you had a kid in the back seat of the vehicle, everything else the same.
Is use of deadly force justified to prevent a kidnapping?
Yes. Tfogger posted the C.R.S
sellersm
05-30-2017, 15:16
I chose B! Well, since you put in the rhyme with the Ginsue's name, it had to be the correct choice!! [Coffee]
Great-Kazoo
05-30-2017, 16:37
Here is another fun situation for you guys to test your knowledge. Try to guess which one of these scenarios (or both - or neither) are one in which you could use lethal force in Colorado. [Note - I am not advocating the use of lethal force in these situations, nor would wisdom likely justify it, e.g. rioters would probably eat you]
A) Killdozer mark two is chugging away, blade lowered, driving straight to your house. Through PA speakers the driver announces "F*** you (name) say bye to your house!" Your family has already evacuated the residence and nobody is left inside. Can you apply lethal force to shoot the driver?
B) Rioters are outside your house. Most of them are peaceful, holding up signs, saying "You look like poo, Mr. Ginsue" or whatever they happen to be protesting. Once again, you and your family are safely outside your residence. You see one of the protesters light a Molotov cocktail and he stretches his arm back apparently preparing to throw it towards your house. Can you apply lethal force to shoot this rioter?
Consider these situations before reading below. Both, neither, or which one?
Potentially Option B: The only circumstance where you can apply lethal force in defense of property in this State is one in which someone is about to commit felony arson.
You should have omitted the correct answer.
ColoradoTJ
05-30-2017, 19:54
Let's add a twist to the scenario. If you had a kid in the back seat of the vehicle, everything else the same.
Is use of deadly force justified to prevent a kidnapping?
At my kids school, parents leave the car running with kids inside all the time. Mind boggles me to no end. Sad thing is these morons have a false sense of security because it is in the "Broadmoor" and must think crime is never happens if over there.
theGinsue
05-30-2017, 20:21
Here is another fun situation for you guys to test your knowledge. Try to guess which one of these scenarios (or both - or neither) are one in which you could use lethal force in Colorado. [Note - I am not advocating the use of lethal force in these situations, nor would wisdom likely justify it, e.g. rioters would probably eat you]
A) Killdozer mark two is chugging away, blade lowered, driving straight to your house. Through PA speakers the driver announces "F*** you (name) say bye to your house!" Your family has already evacuated the residence and nobody is left inside. Can you apply lethal force to shoot the driver?
B) Rioters are outside your house. Most of them are peaceful, holding up signs, saying "You look like poo, Mr. Ginsue" or whatever they happen to be protesting. Once again, you and your family are safely outside your residence. You see one of the protesters light a Molotov cocktail and he stretches his arm back apparently preparing to throw it towards your house. Can you apply lethal force to shoot this rioter?
Consider these situations before reading below. Both, neither, or which one?
.
.
.
Potentially Option B: The only circumstance where you can apply lethal force in defense of property in this State is one in which someone is about to commit felony arson.
Dannnng, I'm just a mild mannered spectator here too.
At my kids school, parents leave the car running with kids inside all the time. Mind boggles me to no end. Sad thing is these morons have a false sense of security because it is in the "Broadmoor" and must think crime is never happens if over there.
I hear about various acts of criminal activity all over the Broadmoor area every week on the news. Those folks better wake up because the criminals have come to realize that part of town is target rich.
ColoradoTJ
05-31-2017, 12:12
I hear about various acts of criminal activity all over the Broadmoor area every week on the news. Those folks better wake up because the criminals have come to realize that part of town is target rich.
If I was a crook, this area would be the first place to go. Now there are a good chance you would be on several cameras systems, but some people don't care.
OtterbatHellcat
06-02-2017, 17:11
I'm wondering if even "presenting" your weapon during this scenario would result in criminal charges against you. Just going off the video without the Other What If's.....bad guy sees you draw and aim, speeds off and the car owner gets seriously injured in the process.
One person trying to cover two mobile targets simultaneously? The lady safety and your own safety.
Against all my own personal wishes about the pricks doing bad, isn't the answer here just plain NO, period?
Great-Kazoo
06-02-2017, 19:19
I'm wondering if even "presenting" your weapon during this scenario would result in criminal charges against you. Just going off the video without the Other What If's.....bad guy sees you draw and aim, speeds off and the car owner gets seriously injured in the process.
One person trying to cover two mobile targets simultaneously? The lady safety and your own safety.
Against all my own personal wishes about the pricks doing bad, isn't the answer here just plain NO, period?
Scenario as in being on the hood or trying to stop them while you're standing there?
Forget on the hood. As for standing there. UNLESS you left a family member in the vehicle. It's a car, let it go.
There's also the unknown scenario.
Where CCW or other gun owner only sees you point a gun at the car. Worse yet, an off duty LE walks out as you're drawing down. Unaware of what transpired that had you draw your gun.
OtterbatHellcat
06-02-2017, 20:40
Scenario as in being on the hood or trying to stop them while you're standing there?
Forget on the hood. As for standing there. UNLESS you left a family member in the vehicle. It's a car, let it go.
There's also the unknown scenario.
Where CCW or other gun owner only sees you point a gun at the car. Worse yet, an off duty LE walks out as you're drawing down. Unaware of what transpired that had you draw your gun.
Well....standing there. As if I were pumping gas for my own car, and I see all this happen. I can't see if there's a kid in the car, or her mother in the back seat...etc, etc. So my question to this deal was basically to do nothing, ......right? OP cites the video as the scenario, I don't think any action on my part would be protected under any law, and I would be subject to prosecution of some sort for "Helping".
I just wonder what was going though the carjackers mind at the time. And then the driver of the getaway vehicle as well. They are probably still locked up in their shithole apartment wonder wtf went wrong with their genius plan!
Great-Kazoo
06-02-2017, 22:15
Well....standing there. As if I were pumping gas for my own car, and I see all this happen. I can't see if there's a kid in the car, or her mother in the back seat...etc, etc. So my question to this deal was basically to do nothing, ......right? OP cites the video as the scenario, I don't think any action on my part would be protected under any law, and I would be subject to prosecution of some sort for "Helping".
Be a good witness. You're only seeing 1 section of the puzzle. How do you know the vehicle isn't being repossessed? OR her drunk friend is messing with her?
OtterbatHellcat
06-02-2017, 23:19
It is unfortunate, to some extent,.....that legally carrying has so many pitfalls and opportunities for getting yourself into trouble because you thought you were helping someone.
LE face this x 100 I know, but just saying. Anything less than an active shooter scenario seems to be a certain prison sentence, including self defense unless it's inside your home. Super high risk at the minimum.
theGinsue
06-03-2017, 09:23
It is unfortunate, to some extent,.....that legally carrying has so many pitfalls and opportunities for getting yourself into trouble because you thought you were helping someone.
LE face this x 100 I know, but just saying. Anything less than an active shooter scenario seems to be a certain prison sentence, including self defense unless it's inside your home. Super high risk at the minimum.
We live in a litigious society. It's only gotten worse over the last 20 years and I suspect it'll be getting much worse before it completely destroys itself or society. Because of this, a wise firearm owner would protect themself with insurance created especially for the occasions where you use a firearm to protect yourself (even in your home) such as the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network, USCCA and the NRA's new Carry Guard. There are many providers out there and which is best for you should come after evaluating each of them.
Here's a good Guns&Ammo article on the subject:
http://www.gunsandammo.com/network-topics/personal-defense-network/choose-concealed-carry-insurance/
The article at this site provides links to many of the insurance options out there:
http://concealednation.org/2015/09/an-in-depth-look-at-concealed-carry-insurance-should-you-get-it/
DenverGP
06-03-2017, 13:55
Personally I don't advocate for carry insurance. An umbrella homeowners insurance policy maybe.
By far, BY FAR, I'd suggest skipping the insurance and spending your money on a proper irrevocable trust setup.
That seems like it protects against the resulting civil suit, but wouldn't do anything for the possible criminal trial.
OtterbatHellcat
06-03-2017, 23:44
These are important topics for all of us who carry to discuss openly, and help each other out with options and educated advice. I appreciate input on this, it's a serious matter that deserves our attention. I know there is a ccw thread here.
I don't want to go to prison because I saved someone elses, a loved one, or my own life, because I planted a deserving jack wad seemingly justifiably. All of us know what is right, and when wrong is being committed...........yet those who are wrong doers have never ending Legal Rights and lots of other bullshit that they can manipulate the community dollar with.
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