Another try @ Green Mtn

[Doc45]

Evidently there was another attempted break in at Green Mountain Guns early this morning. Looked like the posts outside did their job of keeping the ramming vehicle from busting through.

[.455_Hunter]

Evidently there was another attempted break in at Green Mountain Guns early this morning. Looked like the posts outside did their job of keeping the ramming vehicle from busting through.

Would it be completely out of line to ask why aren't LE agencies (including PD/Sheriff/CBI/ATF/FBI) doing stakeouts of local gun shops?

[Sawin]

Would it be completely out of line to ask why aren't LE agencies (including PD/Sheriff/CBI/ATF/FBI) doing stakeouts of local gun shops?

Not at all.

[Guylee]

Would it be completely out of line to ask why aren't LE agencies (including PD/Sheriff/CBI/ATF/FBI) doing stakeouts of local gun shops?

Don't wanna pay the OT.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Would it be completely out of line to ask why aren't LE agencies (including PD/Sheriff/CBI/ATF/FBI) doing stakeouts of local gun shops?

They have increased patrol and do hang out around the shop more often now. Hence why another attempt in Lakewood was stopped and 2 arrests were made.

IMHO, to ask agencies to stake out all of the gun store in Denver Metro without time frame or concrete intelligence is extremely expensive and wasteful - not to mention almost impossible. Most metro area PDs are going from call to call as is.

[roberth]

They have increased patrol and do hang out around the shop more often now. Hence why another attempt in Lakewood was stopped and 2 arrests were made.

IMHO, to ask agencies to stake out all of the gun store in Denver Metro without time frame or concrete intelligence is extremely expensive and wasteful - not to mention almost impossible. Most metro area PDs are going from call to call as is.

Exactly right, 'crats control the funds and they divert the funds to themselves first, illegals and welfare scum second, then waaaaay down the line sits the tax-paying citizen and his business.

[Aardvark]

I don't understand why the shops don't lock the main inventory up at night.

[Doc45]

Yeah the prior attempt at GMG, not this mornings, is when the 2 dirtbags got arrested-and 2 stolen vehicles recovered.

[Duman]

Maybe if they put donut shops next to every gun shop..... [Coffee]

[Graves]

lol!

[roberth]

Maybe if they put donut shops next to every gun shop..... [Coffee]

I'll patrol for that!!

[.455_Hunter]

They have increased patrol and do hang out around the shop more often now. Hence why another attempt in Lakewood was stopped and 2 arrests were made.

IMHO, to ask agencies to stake out all of the gun store in Denver Metro without time frame or concrete intelligence is extremely expensive and wasteful - not to mention almost impossible. Most metro area PDs are going from call to call as is.

Talking to the guys at the Gun Room, units were only dispatched that night to watch Green Mountain AFTER the failed attempt at the Gun Room.

I understand why local PD/Sheriff might not be able to handle all of the load, but given the importance and visibility of stopping these break-ins, it seems to me that some of the higher agencies could pull some of the duty (CBI, FBI, ATF).

I guess staking-out and busting massage parlors is higher on the priority list.

[BushMasterBoy]

But massage parlors with happy endings!

[Aloha_Shooter]

Would it be completely out of line to ask why aren't LE agencies (including PD/Sheriff/CBI/ATF/FBI) doing stakeouts of local gun shops?

Maybe they are. Maybe the criminals are biding their time and striking after the stakeouts go away.

How long do you suggest the taxpayers fund a stakeout of a private business absent a specific targeted timeline? A week? A month? A year? How many gun shops should they be staking out? How do you pick which ones?

If G = number of gun shops in the Denver area that should be staked out, we need 2 shifts a day, call it 3 shifts per week with at least 2 officers per stakeout. So shall we increase DPD manning by 6*G? I don't know what that will do to Denver resident taxes ...

[hurley842002]

Maybe they are. Maybe the criminals are biding their time and striking after the stakeouts go away.

How long do you suggest the taxpayers fund a stakeout of a private business absent a specific targeted timeline? A week? A month? A year? How many gun shops should they be staking out? How do you pick which ones?

If G = number of gun shops in the Denver area that should be staked out, we need 2 shifts a day, call it 3 shifts per week with at least 2 officers per stakeout. So shall we increase DPD manning by 6*G? I don't know what that will do to Denver resident taxes ...
100% agree.

[.455_Hunter]

Maybe they are. Maybe the criminals are biding their time and striking after the stakeouts go away.

How long do you suggest the taxpayers fund a stakeout of a private business absent a specific targeted timeline? A week? A month? A year? How many gun shops should they be staking out? How do you pick which ones?

If G = number of gun shops in the Denver area that should be staked out, we need 2 shifts a day, call it 3 shifts per week with at least 2 officers per stakeout. So shall we increase DPD manning by 6*G? I don't know what that will do to Denver resident taxes ...

Speaking to the owners of several shops that have been hit, no stakeouts have been occurring. I don't know if that is right or wrong.

Would a multi-agency task force be able to observe every shop every night? No, but they could at least provide some statistical chance of catching the perps in the act, especially given the frequency of these events.

Given your criteria, no stakeouts would ever occur because they could not be justified. I guess reactionary responses after the fact are superior to proactive planning.

[Dave_L]

I don't know much but if I were a shop owner, I'd probably buy some old cop car and make it look legit and leave it parked out front each night. Move it around each time so its like its moving. :shrugs:

[OneGuy67]

How about some personal accountability by the owners? Instead of wanting LE to sit on their property for free, have the property owner hire a $10 an hour security guard? Maybe lock their inventory up at night?

[hurley842002]

How about some personal accountability by the owners? Instead of wanting LE to sit on their property for free, have the property owner hire a $10 an hour security guard? Maybe lock their inventory up at night?
Again, I agree 100%

[SuperiorDG]

How about some personal accountability by the owners? Instead of wanting LE to sit on their property for free, have the property owner hire a $10 an hour security guard? Maybe lock their inventory up at night?

I have not notice any shop owners commenting or asking for LE stakeouts. It's mostly been us forum members. So should we make a law that holds the shop owners personally accountable?

[OneGuy67]

I have not notice any shop owners commenting or asking for LE stakeouts. It's mostly been us forum members. So should we make a law that holds the shop owners personally accountable?

There isn't a need for an additional law. My statement was directed at those who are calling for additional LE resources to protect personal property and when I used the term "personal accountability", it is directed at the owners who do not do anything to ensure their property is secured, not a legal standpoint of tort accountability. At some point, the owner's insurance is going to balk at paying out for losses when the owner is irresponsible. I suspect that Triple J's insurance company has had a serious conversation with him or internally regarding his 3rd burglary within a year and whether or not they want to continue to insure his business.

[hurley842002]

So should we make a law that holds the shop owners personally accountable?

No, what kind of an absurd suggestion is that? Sounds like something a Democrat would introduce as legislation.

[ChunkyMonkey]

How about some personal accountability by the owners? Instead of wanting LE to sit on their property for free, have the property owner hire a $10 an hour security guard? Maybe lock their inventory up at night?

THIS! Thank you

[ChunkyMonkey]

How about some personal accountability by the owners? Instead of wanting LE to sit on their property for free, have the property owner hire a $10 an hour security guard? Maybe lock their inventory up at night?

You reminded me of this! LOL

70995

[.455_Hunter]

How about some personal accountability by the owners? Instead of wanting LE to sit on their property for free, have the property owner hire a $10 an hour security guard? Maybe lock their inventory up at night?

All of those of are good ideas, especially the hardening of the target so an enhanced smash and grab is not so fruitful. It may become readily apparent (and backed-up by ATF regulation) that a leased former nail salon in a strip mall is not a suitable location for a gun shop, especially if appropriate enhancements are not permitted by the property owner.

However, if the systematic targeting of gunshops in a specific regional area with the result being hundreds firearms directly entering the criminal market does not justify some proactive response from LE agencies, then what series of crimes will ever meet that criteria?

[OneGuy67]

However, if the systematic targeting of gunshops in a specific regional area with the result being hundreds firearms directly entering the criminal market does not justify some proactive response from LE agencies, then what series of crimes will ever meet that criteria?

I have no answer for you. Whatever criminal act you feel needs a more proactive response must be weighed against available manpower, case loads, budget considerations, call loads, political influence, crime severity, et al, to name just a few of the considerations.

In the end, we are talking about a property crime. The owners of the shops need to protect their investments and lower their insurance costs by securing their inventory. The same would go for a jewelry shop who left their inventory out at night or frankly, any type of business that doesn't take measures to protect their inventory. Those that do not will eventually find themselves uninsurable and eventually out of business.

[GilpinGuy]

I think the fact that these are establishments that we visit or at least support philosophically make some take a more emotional stance and demand the government intervene by having police stake outs.

It's a shop owners responsibility to secure and protect their property, not the governments. Period. Just like it's not the duty of the police to ensure your personal safety.

And I get the "but these guns will get into criminals hands" argument.

Well then, let's involve the government further. Make it the gun shops responsibility for any crime that's committed with firearms stolen from their shops. You don't think the libtards have thought of this? What a horrendous idea.

How about this? The government decides to have stake outs all over town at gun stores. After a while we hear Hickenlooper say "Well since so many law enforcement resources are allocated to this epidemic, we will now impose a 5% tax on all gun and ammo sales to fund this enforcement."

Keep goverment out of your business at all costs if you don't want them to negatively impact your life/business.