RANT - gun club proposed rules changes = DUMB

[hollohas]

Time to vent.

I have been a member at Aurora Gun Club for nearly a decade. I have never had any beef with the rules there. That’s is, I didn’t until they issued proposed changes this month.

In a nutshell, they want dues paying members to pay an additional “registration” fee of between $150-250 for any specific full-auto, 50 BMG or slide-fire type stock firearms that they may want to use at the club. Annually. For each type.

Want to use your slide-fire? You’ll need to pay an additional $150 annually. Want to use your legally owned full-auto? Pay $150 additional. Want to use your 50? Pay another $250 on top of your dues. Want to use all three? Then you owe $550. (For comparison, dues are $200/year.)

What kind of dumb-ass idea is this?

Along with the registration fee, they want members to perform a safety demonstration for each type of firearm on this list. I may be crazy, but how does the safe operation of a 50 BMG differ from a 30-06 for example? Further, how does a $250 annual fee magically make it safer for a member to use a 50 BMG?

What about bump-fire stocks? I’d like to know which volunteer club official will be certifying members to use them. And where said official got their special slide-fire stock safety instructor qualification certificate. I haven’t seen that one on the NRA instructor list…

If the club thinks 50 BMG are unsafe due to the club’s location, then ban them. It’s that simple. I don’t see how $250/year can somehow change that opinion or mysteriously make you as safe with the 50 as you are when you use your 338 all willy nilly, free and uncertified.

If they don’t want the liability of people using slide-fire stocks, then ban them. Paying $150 each year so some FUDD who’s never used one can make sure you’re safe is nonsense.

If anyone here is a member there, I suggest you make your opinion known to the club board.


RESTRICTED DEVICES/FIREARMS

RD1. Full-auto firearms. Requires that there be appropriate paperwork showingFederal registration of the firearm and authorization for the operator of thefirearm to posses the firearm. Any operator of the firearm is required todemonstrate annually safe handling behavior of the specific firearm andpay a $150 annual registration fee for the specific firearm type. Approvedoperators of the firearm are restricted to berms 2-6 and the MagnumHandgun berm. Approved operators of the firearm are restricted to thefollowing cartridges: .22LR, 9mm Luger, .45 ACP, .223 Rem/5.56 NATO,300 Blackout, 308 Win/7.62 x 51, and 7.62 x 39. Full-Auto firearms maybe used without restriction on the property as long as the full-autocapability is not used (All other club rules apply as well as all NFA rulesapply).

RD2. Sure-fire, Slide-fire or other specific-rifle designed bump-fire stocksattached to the specific rifle type. The operator of the firearm is requiredto demonstrate annually safe handling behavior of the specific firearmtype and pay a $150 annual registration fee. Approved operators of thefirearm are restricted to berms 2-6 and the Magnum Handgun berm.Approved operators of the firearm are restricted to the followingcartridges: .22LR, 9mm Luger, .45 ACP, .223 Rem/5.56 NATO, 300Blackout, 308 Win/7.62 x 51, and 7.62 x 39. Rifles with bump-fire stocksmay be used on the property without restriction as long as the bump-firecapability is not used (all other club rules apply).

RD3. 50 BMG (Browning Machine Gun) firearms and all firearms utilizing the50 BMG Cartridge, i.e.: 416 Barrett. The shooter is required to pay a$250 annual registration fee. Registered shooters are restricted to theright-most side of the 200 yard range. The rifle may only be fired proneor from a bench rest position.

[WETWRKS]

Sounds like liberal tax laws...hmmm...where can we tax to make more money for whatever pet project we want.

Frankly I would start demanding that if they are charging extra for machine guns and .50bmg that all that money goes towards making new ranges (lanes) specific for them and non payers cannot use those lanes for anything but.

As for a demonstration of safe gun handling...I believe the 4 rules of safe gun handling doesn't differentiate between a single shot, a semi, or a full auto.

[MrAK]

I wouldn't be happy with these proposed changes either. If someone is bringing ANY kind of firearm to their range and being unsafe then they shouldn't be allowed there in the first place.

[Dave_L]

Wow...yeah, that'd irritate me too.

[BlasterBob]

Sounds like some former California type "dingbats" are coming up with some of their "sensible" rules for firearms handling. [Sarcasm2]

[brutal]

Buncha FUDD's running the club?

WTF?

[MarkCO]

There is a chance (I have seen it elsewhere) that this could be coming from their insurance underwriter and they have no choice. If I was a member there and concerned about it, I would ask for the reasons/rationale behind it first. Then if it is not insurance mandated, work on educating those who have come up with the surcharges.

[ray1970]

I would guess the extra fees are less to do with safety and more likely to do with extra damage and repairs to the range caused by the 50BMG and/or full auto or simulated full auto fire.

[hollohas]

There is a chance (I have seen it elsewhere) that this could be coming from their insurance underwriter and they have no choice. If I was a member there and concerned about it, I would ask for the reasons/rationale behind it first. Then if it is not insurance mandated, work on educating those who have come up with the surcharges.
This crossed my mind and it's entirely possible. However, it doesn't add up to me.

I'm no insurance expert, but if the underwriter required extra money to cover incidents with these sorts of firearms, wouldn't that be a fixed amount and not based on how many people used them?

[Dave_L]

This crossed my mind and it's entirely possible. However, it doesn't add up to me.

I'm no insurance expert, but if the underwriter required extra money to cover incidents with these sorts of firearms, wouldn't that be a fixed amount and not based on how many people used them?

Insurance wouldn't require a fee, per se. They *could* require extra safety measures which means money is needed to add those measures.

Or they would just increase the rate due to "high risk" activities and the range is trying to recoup what they can from those that have said items.

[C Ward]

Doubt it is from the insurance because any 50 BMG based cartridge and full auto has been a no go there for years . This smells like the BOD trying to score some extra cash to me .

When they raised the dues from 150 to 200 a year and declared war on the action shooting sports was when I called it quits .

And yes the club is being run by mostly rimfire shooters and there is a giant case of grouchy old man syndrome in effect .

[hollohas]

It could be insurance, as others said. Or:

My guess: Intentional discouragement. They don't really want those weapons used at their range due to potential for liability but moreso public reputation / physical damage. E.g. slidefire stocks, especially handled between friends, chances are more than a few rounds are not going into proper barriers. On the other hand, they don't want to go on record as "banning" it either for the fallout. So they introduce a price scheme that almost nobody will underwrite, effectively banning the weapons. I don't shoot over there so of course, my opinion is diminished. Personally I wouldn't be too offended having been a business owner in the past. They own the range, for whatever reason, they don't really want those weapons used. You might be responsible, but look around at our fellow shooters at times. 50 BMG can wreck a tremendous cost on Rockwell steel that would otherwise last years. Slide fires are often possessed by idiots, and not everyone at a private range is not an idiot. Auto's are often more professional but also carry more public reputation risk if something did happen. (stray round leaves range and hits house, e.g., and it came from a "machine gun"). Basically it's their business, businesses often get sick of certain things over time, they are certainly within bounds to change to suit their own desires. Don't take it personally or necessarily attribute it to politics.
All good points. I don't take the proposed changes personally, just think they are dumb.

A few clarifications as points of reference.

- It is a member owned club. That's why they are "proposed" changes. Ultimately the elected board will either implement them or not, hopefully based on member's input.

- These items are currently prohibited. At least until the rules are changed per the proposal. I actually don't have an issue with the prohibition. It's the wishy washy in-between proposal that drives me nuts. Like I said, either they are viewed as unsafe or not. No pay-to-play fee should change that opinion. So, because it's already prohibited, it's not simply intentional discouragement, but maybe a more convoluted version thereof. It could be an effort to placate those who want to shoot these firearms by giving the appearance of newly allowing them, while still making it unappealing. Which IMO is plain dirty. That's Fed Gov type BS.

[TFOGGER]

I blame Obama.

[SSChameleon]

I'm not sure on the additional fees, I would ask if there is additional insurance cost or maintenance compared to other firearms. I am a member of a range that requires a certification to use the longest range to ensure you are not skipping rounds over the berm and all your shots impact the berm. Given the location of Aurora gun club, it would seem like a liability to have rounds that leave the range and head toward e-470.

It sounds like to board is covering their butts for when they remove the prohibition and they guy who doesn't understand the physics of slide fire/full auto and muzzle rise sends a bunch of rounds over the berm.

[C Ward]

All the impact areas run parallel to the Hwy , you'd have to be incredibly stupid to launch rounds at 470 .

More I think about it this is the AGC NFA , discourage a behavior by making it cost prohibitive and make some cash on the membership at the same time .

[Hoser]

And yes the club is being run by mostly rimfire shooters and there is a giant case of grouchy old man syndrome in effect .

And lots of trap shooters on the BOD that hate everyone that does not shoot trap.

[BlasterBob]

I would guess the extra fees are less to do with safety and more likely to do with extra damage and repairs to the range caused by the 50BMG and/or full auto or simulated full auto fire.

I am kinda curious as to what actual EXTRA damage the .50 BMG would cause other than dig a little larger hole in the back target butts. Of course if the shooters are willfully hitting the target frames, then there would be some extra damages. My .50 has never caused any more negative results other than digging up a bit more soil and it does provide a bit more bang (sound)....... [blaster]

[C Ward]

And lots of trap shooters on the BOD that hate everyone that does not shoot trap.

Trap guys are all gone , their pissed at the board too . Rimfire silhouette is the faction in power last decade or so .

[ray1970]

I am kinda curious as to what actual EXTRA damage the .50 BMG would cause other than dig a little larger hole in the back target butts. Of course if the shooters are willfully hitting the target frames, then there would be some extra damages. My .50 has never caused any more negative results other than digging up a bit more soil and it does provide a bit more bang (sound)....... [blaster]

I have no idea. 50 BMG is prohibited at my range. Even on the 1,000 yard range. I was told it was "because the backstops weren't designed to handle the round."

I didn't ask questions or dig into it any deeper since I don't own anything chambered in that caliber anyways.

[Sawin]

Trap guys are all gone , their pissed at the board too . Rimfire silhouette is the faction in power last decade or so .

If that's the case I'll talk to David B. and Grizz and make sure they know this is lunacy... I shoot with them 3+ times a month.

[rtr]

My club doesn't even allow us to shoot full autos.

[WETWRKS]

Funny...as my club rents full auto. They don't advertise it but they are available to those who are in the know.

[BlasterBob]

When I have shot my single shot .50 BMG, down at Whittington, where they are welcome, I usually shot on the 200 yard range only to see if I could get some really tight groups. Yes, at only 200 yards it is pretty easy to cover the three shots with a quarter. Never had any desire to compete as I got mine for amusement, not compete with the experts at the 1,000 yard stuff. I've never had any desire to shoot steel and have been happy with paper targets and not destroying ANYTHING but paper. Now at 80 years old, I will be getting rid of the whole kit-n-kaboodle as this 35 pound beast is just getting too heavy for this old fart to lug around. It has been kinda neat to be the guy with the biggest gun in the neighborhood. [blaster]

[hollohas]

Trap guys are all gone , their pissed at the board too . Rimfire silhouette is the faction in power last decade or so .
I used to shoot tons of trap. IMO, the trap is mismanaged at AGC too. Trap should be a great income source for a club if it's managed correctly. I shot at a different club for years that charged $2.50/round of trap for members and still managed to be in the black.

[BlasterBob]

With a good barrel protector, it could have a second life as a bad-ass crutch. Just imagine the 911 calls that would generate in Illinois...


There'd be mass panic in the streets and huge traffic jams of police cars.....[panic]

[spqrzilla]

Aurora Gun Club a clown show still? This is my surprised face.

[TriggerHappy]

I was a member at golden gun club for 5 years, got tired of all the old guys that thought they knew more. Tired of trying to check for paperwork saying my suppressors or select fires were legal. Tired of getting flagged by dumbasses, mostly old guys that knew more. Tired of being told I was talking to loud and that they couldn't concentrate (that was a board member). It's like a retirement club for old guys that don't shoot. The range was closed to military during the week, when I could go shooting. No 50 bmg due to how far it could shoot, but a 416 Barrett and 338 lap was ok.

I'm thinking about joining CRC, hopefully it's not that way. It sounds like this is an issue at clubs around here. That's sad.