View Full Version : Electrical mystery
Just moved into a new house and there is this one light switch that was taped over into the "on" position. My son decided he needed to flip it and when he did all the lights on a quarter of the floor turned off and won't turn back on again. I've flipped every breaker in the entire panel and they still won't come back on. I tired one of the bulbs in a lamp and it works so they didn't blow out or anything. The previous owner must have known about this or they'd never have taped over the light switch. Any thoughts on the cause or a fix? Shouldn't someone disclose something like this before selling a house? All the outlets in the area work, just none of the lights in the celling. I'm going to check again when it's light out but I'm pretty sure there is only one electrical panel. Oh and I've cycled all the GFCI outlets that are in the dark area.
I've seen some weird problems, this sounds like one of those.
First step might be to check the voltage at the switch. If there's power at the switch input, check the switch functionality, eliminate the switch as a problem. It might be intermittent and once working, was taped in a functional state.
This is kind of problem can take a while to chase down....
Search high and low for an unknown GFCI somewhere on that circuit.
Search high and low for an unknown GFCI somewhere on that circuit.
This. Our GFCI is connected to all sorts of weird crap.
BPTactical
08-25-2017, 22:30
You threw THE switch......
Dingaling, everybody knows you don't throw THE switch......
Great-Kazoo
08-25-2017, 22:53
Yes disclosure should have been done. Tomorrow morning call your realtor, ask why this info was not given before hand. Then let them know you will seek action against the home inspector, listing agent and seller. Unless any repairs you're out of pocket for are not paid by them sooner than later.
BUT................. you as new owner should have done a walk through before closing. Also when looking at the home, why didn't you ask about that switch then?
Yes disclosure should have been done. Tomorrow morning call your realtor, ask why this info was not given before hand. Then let them know you will seek action against the home inspector, listing agent and seller. Unless any repairs you're out of pocket for are not paid by them sooner than later.
BUT................. you as new owner should have done a walk through before closing. Also when looking at the home, why didn't you ask about that switch then?
We just didn't notice the switch at the walkthrough, it's one light switch in the entire house. It was taped with clear tape and we didn't even notice until my son decided to flip it. I am upset with the inspector but more so with the previous owners. They clearly knew there was an issue and didn't mention it at all. I fully intend to pursue any available action I'm entitled to. I do appreciate the advice as I'm unsure of my rights here.
Grant H.
08-26-2017, 08:06
I guess I'm on a different side here...
It's likely a $3 switch.
Fix it, and move on with your life.
Sure, the home owners knew and the Inspector should have caught it, but is it really worth potentially going to court? You could waste WEEKS on trying to push this through since you didn't do anything about it during the appropriate time in the contract. What's your time worth to you? Taking your time to chase this down with the realtors, the inspector, the previous homeowner, etc will all take time, especially if the previous home owner doesn't want to play ball.
The opportunity cost of WEEKS of effort is far greater than what it will cost to fix this.
Whatever, your choice to make!
That's all fine and dandy, but what if the switch is simply evidence of a larger problem?
What if the previous owner had his cousin's girlfriend's neighbor "who knows about electrical work" do a bunch of wiring and then didn't disclose that?
At the very least, OP needs to figure out if it's just a bum switch or if it's more than that.
Probably a bad switch or a code violation. As above its either a $3 repair or needs professional attention that you should have known about before purchase.
Document document document
SideShow Bob
08-26-2017, 09:41
Bubba not only does gun smithing, he also does electrical work !
He's an all around handy man.
I don't know about the legal rights or disclosure laws, But you definatly have some serious electrical problems.
Did the previous owner do any remodeling ? And did they have the proper permits to do so ? You may have a leg to stand on from that angle too.
And I have to ask, Did you try turning back on the switch in question ? [Tooth]
And I have to ask, Did you try turning back on the switch in question ? [Tooth]
Haha yeah I turned it back on
We're going to get an electrician in here and just suck it up. It's really frustrating though because the previous owners surely knew about it. I'd try to fix it my self but I have a habit of getting zapped.
Great-Kazoo
08-26-2017, 11:58
Probably a bad switch or a code violation. As above its either a $3 repair or needs professional attention that you should have known about before purchase.
Document document document
We're going to get an electrician in here and just suck it up. It's really frustrating though because the previous owners surely knew about it. I'd try to fix it my self but I have a habit of getting zapped.
See wulf's reply. ANYTHING you have done needs documentation Also the lic electricians repair order should be sent to your realtor.
Our realtor has already contacted the previous owner, we'll see what happens.
There is no way in hell the home inspector and buyer will check every single micron^3 of the house.
[facepalm]
Took at least 2-3 hours to see common stuff.
When we were in the market 9 years ago, one of the home owner immediately disclosed to real estate about one funky electrical work. At least it was new construction, and it was covered by builder. We didn't buy that house due to timing, but that is how seller should address any minor issues.
As being said, I hope it is something really minor. If seller knowingly conceal a major electrical issue, it should be on them.
If you want to try swapping the switch out, I can do it Monday when I swing by. Just have the new switch ready to rock.
Where are y'all finding $3.00 switches?!
The last two houses I bought all switches were checked, roof, crawlspace, heater, water heater, elec box, plumbing inlets and foundation. Took less than 1.5 hours and no one complained.
No advise for the OP but I see it as in the inspector's hands. That's their job.
GilpinGuy
08-26-2017, 23:20
You said you turned the switch back on. Try pushing it up
little more with some pressure. Maybe it is a faulty switch and it needs that extra little umph to make contact and that's why it was taped up?.
Miss wired 3-way would be my guess. See it a lot.
SideShow Bob
08-27-2017, 08:55
Along the line of jslo's thought, does the switch have a "On and Off" embossed into the lever ? Or, is it blank when in either position ?
Also did you throw any switches at the opposite end of the darkened section ?
If it is a miss-wired 3-way switch, the problem switch and it's mate will have to be in a certain position for the lights to be on.
Put the switch back into the up (what you consider on) and try flipping the switches at the other end of the area, one at a time to see if you can get the lights back on.
Regardless of root cause, it should not become a federal case until some basic investigation/troubleshooting is performed.
Investigation before escalation.
SideShow Bob
08-27-2017, 09:12
Investigation before escalation.
Aw man, where's the fun in that........
Sooooo. If all other devices are working in the house by flipping the switch that had the tape on in back then it is not a GFCI or a voltage issue. If a quarter of the house lighting is being affected it is not a 3-way switch issue. A miss wired 3-way would only effect the lighting in that area, room, hallway etc.
My guess is that the something is miss wired in that switch box, specifically the wiring on that switch. That lighting circuit is being "interrupted" by that switch. And the other question is what is that switch supposed to work ? A switched outlet perhaps ?
SideShow Bob
08-27-2017, 09:34
Sooooo. If all other devices are working in the house by flipping the switch that had the tape on in back then it is not a GFCI or a voltage issue. If a quarter of the house lighting is being affected it is not a 3-way switch issue. A miss wired 3-way would only effect the lighting in that area, room, hallway etc.
My guess is that the something is miss wired in that switch box. That lighting circuit is being "interrupted" by that switch. And the other question is what is that switch supposed to work ? A switched outlet perhaps ?
You would be shocked (pun intended) as to what a DIY home owner will tap into for power when doing their own remodel. "Hey this is a hot wire, we can tap into it to feed _______ ."
You would be shocked (pun intended) as to what a DIY home owner will tap into for power when doing their own remodel. "Hey this is a hot wire, we can tap into to feed _______ ."
No I really would not.
Have seen most if not all of it in 23 years of being a electrician.
In a somewhat defense for home inspectors, 2 points I'd make are:
1) I don't believe theyou have the time, or you would be willing to pay their increased fees, to check out every switch and recepticles in the house. They usually will select some randomly or concentrate on the more safety concerned areas, ie gfic.
2) I see many switches "taped" on when exterior lights are swapped out for photo cell or motion lights requiring constant power. If this switch was on by an exterior door you could assume that it had a this purpose.
A mis-wired 3/4 way is fairly easy to wire up incorrectly but also easy to correct. This also is assuming it is a 3/4 way.
Sorry if this is a stupid question but a 3 way switch is when two switches control the same set of lights? If this switch has a companion I don't know which one that would be, I've flipped every other switch in the house and can't find one that's bringing the power back.
The breaker box was replaced less than a year ago and I have the receipt for the work someplace in this pile of moving boxes. I may contact the company that installed it once the documentation turns up. Is it typical for a switch in the breaker box to fully "click off" but not completely go back into the on position?
Great-Kazoo
08-27-2017, 15:20
In a somewhat defense for home inspectors, 2 points I'd make are:
1) I don't believe theyou have the time, or you would be willing to pay their increased fees, to check out every switch and recepticles in the house. They usually will select some randomly or concentrate on the more safety concerned areas, ie gfic.
2) I see many switches "taped" on when exterior lights are swapped out for photo cell or motion lights requiring constant power. If this switch was on by an exterior door you could assume that it had a this purpose.
A mis-wired 3/4 way is fairly easy to wire up incorrectly but also easy to correct. This also is assuming it is a 3/4 way.
We understand an inspector isn't going to do a wall to ceiling , corner to corner inspection, for the price one is charged. However the reason there's a taped switch should have been disclosed prior to closing, be the seller. If the taped switch is part of a larger issue, someone should have picked up on it.
SideShow Bob
08-27-2017, 15:39
Sorry if this is a stupid question but a 3 way switch is when two switches control the same set of lights? If this switch has a companion I don't know which one that would be, I've flipped every other switch in the house and can't find one that's bringing the power back.
The breaker box was replaced less than a year ago and I have the receipt for the work someplace in this pile of moving boxes. I may contact the company that installed it once the documentation turns up. Is it typical for a switch in the breaker box to fully "click off" but not completely go back into the on position?
On the breaker question, yes, a breaker will not trip to the fully off position. Try to cycle each breaker to the fully off position then back to the on position. If one trips back to the "tripped position" it will not be in the fully off position.
Sorry if this is a stupid question but a 3 way switch is when two switches control the same set of lights? If this switch has a companion I don't know which one that would be, I've flipped every other switch in the house and can't find one that's bringing the power back.
The breaker box was replaced less than a year ago and I have the receipt for the work someplace in this pile of moving boxes. I may contact the company that installed it once the documentation turns up. Is it typical for a switch in the breaker box to fully "click off" but not completely go back into the on position?
The taped switch would need to be back in the position it was in, when lights were working, before looking for it's "mate".
I haven't seen if these lights are all in the same room or area and all controlled by 1 switch? The mis-wired 3 way is only a factor if all the non working lights are on the same circuit/switching.
As for the breaker, if you switch the breaker all the way off and it doesn't snap back on fully, you'll either have a bad breaker or a short not allowing it to reset.
We got the lights up and running this morning. Switch is fine, and looks to have been recently replaced. When the switch is flipped, it kicks off the breaker and kills nearby circuits. Oddly, it trips 2 different breakers at the same time.
Izzy will have an electrician track down the trouble when possible.
We were unable to find what the switch operates, but we didn't check outlets. It does not appear to be a light.
We got the lights up and running this morning. Switch is fine, and looks to have been recently replaced. When the switch is flipped, it kicks off the breaker and kills nearby circuits. Oddly, it trips 2 different breakers at the same time.
Izzy will have an electrician track down the trouble when possible.
We were unable to find what the switch operates, but we didn't check outlets. It does not appear to be a light.
Thanks again for coming by this morning. We at least have the power back, you're a life saver.
Thanks again for coming by this morning. We at least have the power back, you're a life saver.
No problem....
On second thought, I bet that it was supposed to be a 3 way switch along with the one on the other side of the kitchen that was partially patched over.
SideShow Bob
08-29-2017, 20:32
We got the lights up and running this morning. Switch is fine, and looks to have been recently replaced. When the switch is flipped, it kicks off the breaker and kills nearby circuits. Oddly, it trips 2 different breakers at the same time.
Izzy will have an electrician track down the trouble when possible.
We were unable to find what the switch operates, but we didn't check outlets. It does not appear to be a light.
A standard or 3-way switch ? Or the rare 4-Way ?
Which ever it is, it is definatly miswired & shorting two circuits together.
What are the breakers labeled as in the circuit breaker can ? If they are not labeled, there is another code violation. If your breaker can was professionally replaced (receipt for work done ?) there should have been a permit pulled and an electrical inspection done.
I think the previous owner had a 3 way switch in there, then did some remodel stuff and removed a set of switches on one side of the kitchen. They appear to have tried a replacement switch to no avail.
I only remember one of the breaker labels, downstairs light.
I would bet the problem lies in one of 2 boxes, but it was early, before work and my caffiene fix, so we didnt look too deep into it after lights were back on.
I need to talk to izzy and perhaps visit next week or some other time to look at it better
Took a while but I finally got this figured out. Jokers who lived here before me wired a hot wire to the ground on one end of a 3-way switch so every time you flipped it it’d knock out power to 1/4 of my house. Like had been mentioned here it was a pain in the ass to figure out but the solution was simple in the end.
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