View Full Version : BINARY TRIGGER ON ITS WAY...ADVICE?
bellavite1
09-05-2017, 19:23
Hopefully this is the right place for it...
Jut yesterday this guy comes in at work (Silverbullet) with a Sig MPX pistol.
The damn thing was equipped with a Franklin BFS III trigger, the binary that fires one round on pull and one on release.
At first I thought somebody's gun was doubling, so I offered my (limited) help.
When the guy told me it was a binary trigger I was quite unimpressed, I always considered it a novelty, kind of an expensive slide-fire deal.
He offered me to try it...
he said "just barely feather the trigger"...
the damn thing turned into the closest thing to real full auto I had the pleasure to experience since I sold my UZI SMG!
A normal trigger pull still gave a very quick double tap, but both me and my coworker were able to do full mag dumps in no time...
$325.00 later, I have one coming my way...
I like the 3 position selector that will give me familiarity with a real AR fun-switch, the fact that every thing else in the gun stays the same, the $325 vs $35000 price...
It comes with an extra power buffer spring that should minimize the chances of a hammer follow, and two set of FCG springs .
It will go on my 5.56 10.5" AR pistol, which I already set up with an SB tactical collapsible brace (ATF will have a fit with this thing by the time I am done [Flower]).
I am assuming that, to help minimizing the hammer follow, a regular carbine buffer would be the way to go.
Since I'd like to use Tula cheapo rounds in it (lots of them... [Coffee]), maybe an extractor upgrade (BCM maybe) could also be worth getting.
Any current users care to chime in?
I got nothin'... 'cept: Cool!!! [Beer]
I've got one and think it's a ton of fun. Things get very dirty very fast if you're using a can. Not hard to install either, I'd recommend doing all the checks they mention in the manual when installing. I've only tried it with one upper, non SBR, it works great. I think it gets you as close as you can get to full auto without spending all the money.
Great-Kazoo
09-05-2017, 23:14
I'll chime in next day or so, after i road test one. I've been told one needs to get the feel for it. Or the rifle has a tendency to get away from you. Meaning you go from double and triple taps on steel to lots of lead in the berm.
bellavite1
09-06-2017, 10:49
I've got one and think it's a ton of fun. Things get very dirty very fast if you're using a can. Not hard to install either, I'd recommend doing all the checks they mention in the manual when installing. I've only tried it with one upper, non SBR, it works great. I think it gets you as close as you can get to full auto without spending all the money.
Did you need any modifications to the host gun (extractor, buffer...)?
Did you need any modifications to the host gun (extractor, buffer...)?
No modifications other than using the buffer spring that came with the trigger. I don't typically oil my rifles very much, a little extra oil is a good idea.
DireWolf
09-06-2017, 17:02
I have no personal experience with this trigger (yet) or BFS3/MPX combos, but came across some info online (comments section of retailer web page) that indicated the BFS3/MPX combo specifically has a known issue with potential malfunction related to unintended discharge...
I haven't dug into this and have no info other than what was referred to above (no confirmation that this is real) but wanted to pass the info along just in case, since the OP mentioned this particular combo (given the potential severity if issue is real)...
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bellavite1
09-06-2017, 17:39
I have no personal experience with this trigger (yet) or BFS3/MPX combos, but came across some info online (comments section of retailer web page) that indicated the BFS3/MPX combo specifically has a known issue with potential malfunction related to unintended discharge...
I haven't dug into this and have no info other than what was referred to above (no confirmation that this is real) but wanted to pass the info along just in case, since the OP mentioned this particular combo (given the potential severity if issue is real)...
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
That's good to know.
Any chance you can post a linK?
DireWolf
09-06-2017, 18:07
That's good to know.
Any chance you can post a linK?
(link intentionally disabled - remove spaces in domain name)
www. opticsplanet. com/franklin-armory-5550-binary-trigger-gen-3-22lr-9mm-metal.html
In the comments section of product page (not review section)...
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bellavite1
09-06-2017, 20:10
(link intentionally disabled - remove spaces in domain name)
www. opticsplanet. com/franklin-armory-5550-binary-trigger-gen-3-22lr-9mm-metal.html
In the comments section of product page (not review section)...
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
Ok, thx.
It is going into a DPMS 5.56 lower, so hopefully it will be as good as I hope it to be.
I will keep you guys posted...
Great-Kazoo
09-07-2017, 14:18
AAR (not aarp [facepalm])
To get a handle on this trigger definitely a .750 bbl , lightweight bbl's will get smoking hot, real fast. Fatter hand guards, slim / low profile looks nice but that hot barrel is more than happy to pass along some of that heat buildup. Nice brake , possibly a levang or good flash hider. 16" would be my preference for overall control IF you were to have others shoot your rifle.
I could see this trigger on my 12" .750 SBR with no problem. BUT........................I don't see a novice shooter run it, as it could get away from them real quick. Especially while getting use to a round being fired every time you move your finger.
NO it does not fire by itself, no it does not do 2-3 round burst. It's a semi-auto trigger, a very slick rapid fire one, still a semi-auto only.
.
I have no personal experience with this trigger (yet) or BFS3/MPX combos, but came across some info online (comments section of retailer web page) that indicated the BFS3/MPX combo specifically has a known issue with potential malfunction related to unintended discharge...
The only way for an "unintentional discharge" would be for someone not familiar with it, to have their finger on the trigger of a chambered rifle. It's a slick trigger for sure, one i'll add to the collection. When i have the spare coin to do so.
I'll give a big +1 to the barrel getting hot.
bellavite1
09-07-2017, 15:56
ITS GONNA GET UGLY![UZI]
DireWolf
09-07-2017, 16:40
.
I have no personal experience with this trigger (yet) or BFS3/MPX combos, but came across some info online (comments section of retailer web page) that indicated the BFS3/MPX combo specifically has a known issue with potential malfunction related to unintended discharge...
The only way for an "unintentional discharge" would be for someone not familiar with it, to have their finger on the trigger of a chambered rifle...
Completely agree for the vast majority of cases, and very likely in that instance as well - especially since a quick search turned up no other supporting comments or references...
That said, the comment description in question seemed to read as a low-likelihood potential mechanical failure mode specifically with out-of-spec MPX receivers, which at least seems plausible (e.g. - like a bad 50-cent trigger job causing runaways), and figured it was worth a quick (thread-related) PSA even if most likely a non-issue....
I find this topic (and that particular setup) very interesting...
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I'll give a big +1 to the barrel getting hot.
Speaking of which... Did you ever get your can re-coated? Lol
To Bear Arms
09-07-2017, 21:23
I have one installed in my MPX and have not had any issues other then you can "run it" to fast and get a hammer follow. I have shot around 800rds. So far. I really like it other then I am going through ammo a lot faster now!
bellavite1
09-12-2017, 12:02
UPDATE:
Got it, got it to work (I actually had to use a different hammer), and it is a lot of fun (and ammo...[panic]).
HOWEVER, I am dealing with occasional hammer follow and I have not been able to do a mag dump yet.
It looks like my finger is faster than the bolt coming home (yeah , I have a fast finger, I have been told that before...[Coffee]).
If I understand correctly. there are a few ways to address this, lightweight carrier, enlarging the gas port with an adjustable gas block etc.
I would think that for my specific needs I need to increase the carrier return movement, rather than its backward movement.
Therefore, trying increasingly stiffer buffer springs would be the first step.
If that does not prove solve the issue, it would probably get to a point where the spring is so stiff is actually slowing things down, give fte and eventually require the gas port/adj gas block treatment.
Any suggestion as to what springs to use ? Is there anything like a "tuning spring kit"? I am already using the extra power one provided with the kit.
UPDATE:
Got it, got it to work (I actually had to use a different hammer), and it is a lot of fun (and ammo...[panic]).
HOWEVER, I am dealing with occasional hammer follow and I have not been able to do a mag dump yet.
It looks like my finger is faster than the bolt coming home (yeah , I have a fast finger, I have been told that before...[Coffee]).
If I understand correctly. there are a few ways to address this, lightweight carrier, enlarging the gas port with an adjustable gas block etc.
I would think that for my specific needs I need to increase the carrier return movement, rather than its backward movement.
Therefore, trying increasingly stiffer buffer springs would be the first step.
If that does not prove solve the issue, it would probably get to a point where the spring is so stiff is actually slowing things down, give fte and eventually require the gas port/adj gas block treatment.
Any suggestion as to what springs to use ? Is there anything like a "tuning spring kit"? I am already using the extra power one provided with the kit.
One of my friends has the same issue when firing mine. I never seem to run into the issue when I use it. Perhaps the best solution in this case is technique.
bellavite1
09-12-2017, 12:17
Possibly, since I just ran 130 rnds through it...
I am curious, however, whether somebody (CALLING BP TACTICAL!!!) could chime in and tell me whether I am on the correct path.
I did find this on Midway:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/910986/jp-enterprises-alternate-spring-pack-for-ar-10-lr-308-silent-captured-spring-recoil-buffer
But it looks like it is specific to a JP buffer system.
Any input?
Great-Kazoo
09-12-2017, 12:40
Perhaps the best solution in this case is technique.
Possibly, since I just ran 130 rnds through it...
I am curious, however, whether somebody (CALLING BP TACTICAL!!!) could chime in and tell me whether I am on the correct path.
I did find this on Midway:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/910986/jp-enterprises-alternate-spring-pack-for-ar-10-lr-308-silent-captured-spring-recoil-buffer
But it looks like it is specific to a JP buffer system.
Any input?
See Izzy's reply. There is no reason to alter anything on your gun but the operator.
bellavite1
09-12-2017, 13:12
See Izzy's reply. There is no reason to alter anything on your gun but the operator.
I get that, and that is ONE option.
My question, however is not about technique, but rather about the mechanics of an AR.
How do I speed up the travel forward of my bolt carrier?
Great-Kazoo
09-12-2017, 16:24
I get that, and that is ONE option.
My question, however is not about technique, but rather about the mechanics of an AR.
How do I speed up the travel forward of my bolt carrier?
The one i road tested was using a stock BCG and the buffer spring from FA
https://www.franklinarmory.com/collections/binarytriggers/products/binary-firing-system-gen-iii-trigger-pack
* Enhanced buffer springs for optimal flexibility
Does anyone have any experience with the fostech echo? They claim to have eliminated the hammer follow issue.
I wonder if the difference between a full auto and semi BCG makes the issue any better or worse. Pretty sure the upper I use it with has a semi BCG.
bellavite1
09-13-2017, 07:08
This should help:
https://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XAIMBCGNIBLW
Video please. ��
That was supposed to be a smiley face.
bellavite1
09-14-2017, 20:58
Video please. ��
That was supposed to be a smiley face.
Soon,as soon as I work out the bugs (need to get the light weight carrier in) [UZI]
DireWolf
09-16-2017, 20:46
...got it to work (I actually had to use a different hammer)...
What was the issue you ran into with the included hammer?
bellavite1
09-17-2017, 08:23
It would get caught by the disconnector (running in semi only) in binary mode.
I contacted them and they told me that my DPMS lower may be slightly out of spec and to try a different hammer.
it fixed the issue.
bellavite1
09-17-2017, 19:16
Light weight BCG from AIM fixed the hammer follow problem.
Now all I need is an unlimited supply of low cost .223 so that I can train my own finger.
Mag dumps were achieved today (6 of them in rapid succession) with no issues other than keeping the speed steady, but no for fault of the gun .
Great-Kazoo
09-17-2017, 19:30
https://www.bitethebullet.co/
https://www.bitethebullet.co/5000-rounds-of-223556
5,000 ROUNDS OF 223/5.56
223 / 5.56 55gr Hornady FMJ FREE SHIPPING! Comes in our BTB buckets!
$1,374.99
bellavite1
09-17-2017, 19:52
https://www.bitethebullet.co/
https://www.bitethebullet.co/5000-rounds-of-223556
5,000 ROUNDS OF 223/5.56
223 / 5.56 55gr Hornady FMJ FREE SHIPPING! Comes in our BTB buckets!
$1,374.99
Much appreciated, but still .27 x round.
I was able to find this:
http://www.ammovalley.com/223-Rem-55gr-FMJ-Reman-p/avc223f55r-b0500.htm
Still looking for something cheaper though, Ideally in the .20/rnd range.
I just missed out on this:
https://agbarms.com/products/seconds-blems-223-5-56-55-gr-fmj-reman-orders-over-129-get-free-shipping-1?variant=42872437512
Much appreciated, but still .27 x round.
I was able to find this:
http://www.ammovalley.com/223-Rem-55gr-FMJ-Reman-p/avc223f55r-b0500.htm
Still looking for something cheaper though, Ideally in the .20/rnd range.
I just missed out on this:
https://agbarms.com/products/seconds-blems-223-5-56-55-gr-fmj-reman-orders-over-129-get-free-shipping-1?variant=42872437512
"Up to 6% squib loads..."
With a binary trigger. Funny.
bellavite1
09-18-2017, 06:43
"Up to 6% squib loads..."
With a binary trigger. Funny.
You do have a point... [panic]
You could always run steel case. Barrels are cheap.....
Great-Kazoo
09-18-2017, 08:19
You could always run steel case. Barrels are cheap.....
If one is willing to drop $300+ on a trigger or other enhancement for their gun. One shouldn't be surprised ammo use will increase. I reload, so ammo cost is a moot point. Were i to buy ammo for the purpose of massive mag dumps, i'd buy it by the pallet. $1200 ish for 5K is not bad when you factor in the trigger group is 1/4 that investment.
If one is willing to drop $300+ on a trigger or other enhancement for their gun. One shouldn't be surprised ammo use will increase. I reload, so ammo cost is a moot point. Were i to buy ammo for the purpose of massive mag dumps, i'd buy it by the pallet. $1200 ish for 5K is not bad when you factor in the trigger group is 1/4 that investment.
True but those are reloads also which I would be leery of running in a binary trigger or FA setup. New factory ammo can be had for around that price. I reload also but have found that the cost of steel case is getting very close to what I can reload for so I'm going to test a couple of them in a couple of my guns this weekend and see how they do.
bellavite1
09-18-2017, 09:25
True but those are reloads also which I would be leery of running in a binary trigger or FA setup. New factory ammo can be had for around that price. I reload also but have found that the cost of steel case is getting very close to what I can reload for so I'm going to test a couple of them in a couple of my guns this weekend and see how they do.
I ran 160 rnds of Tula yesterday in this very set up, with reduced power hammer, btw, with no misfires or failures of any kind.
bellavite1
09-18-2017, 11:51
https://www.facebook.com/gianluigi.bellavite/videos/10213956989463971/
Video...
https://www.facebook.com/gianluigi.bellavite/videos/10213956989463971/
Video...
got one for those of us with no facebook?
bellavite1
09-18-2017, 15:45
I have no idea how to post a video...[Bang]`
I am not very technologically inclined.
But if somebody cares to guide me I'll be happy to.
bellavite1
09-18-2017, 16:40
https://i.imgur.com/wOsPBoj.mp4
https://photos.app.goo.gl/6lqMozc6qYOdw6w73
This is mine, melted the finish off my can that day
bellavite1
09-18-2017, 19:44
https://photos.app.goo.gl/6lqMozc6qYOdw6w73
This is mine, melted the finish off my can that day
Oh well...[UZI]
Great-Kazoo
09-24-2017, 18:57
Ran a few mags through another members B3. Tried it on my 11.5" Halo suppressed, AA piston upper. [AR15] Like it better than the ECHO trigger.
https://fostechoutdoors.com/shop/index.php?l=product_list&c=15
kidicarus13
10-03-2017, 09:37
Gotta get me one, especially now.
kidicarus13
10-03-2017, 10:30
For those of you interested in purchasing direct from Franklin... Place the trigger in the shopping cart and fill in your information minus your credit card. In approximately 1 hour you will receive this email:
Thanks for visiting Franklin Armory®! It looks like you left something behind in your cart. Don’t worry – we saved it for you!
We would like to welcome you as a first time customer and would like to give you an extra 10% your first purchase use Promo code: FA10-FT9583C2
VOILA, 10% off!
bobbyfairbanks
10-03-2017, 18:08
Dude thanks for the discount code!
Great-Kazoo
10-03-2017, 18:41
One of my ffl's up here still has them priced about $10 lower.
kidicarus13
10-05-2017, 15:59
Dude thanks for the discount code!
Another faster-trigger-rate Public Service Announcement... As of Tuesday, October 3rd, this trigger was in stock and $369.99. It is now $429.99 and orders will take 6+ weeks to ship. GET'EM WHILE THEY'RE HOT!!! [Flame][MG]
https://www.franklinarmory.com/products/binary-firing-system-gen-iii-trigger-pack
I ordered two of them at $359 a piece on October 2. Still have not seen a email with tracking information or payment on credit card. I emailed them yesterday with my order number and they told me five weeks. Weird! So much for in stock. Lol Hopefully they get here before any ban.
Great-Kazoo
10-07-2017, 10:33
I ordered two of them at $359 a piece on October 2. Still have not seen a email with tracking information or payment on credit card. I emailed them yesterday with my order number and they told me five weeks. Weird! So much for in stock. Lol Hopefully they get here before any ban.
30+ days out for delivery.
kidicarus13
10-07-2017, 12:28
30+ days out for delivery.With emphasis on the "+". Ain't no way your getting one delivered within 30 days unless you know soneone selling one and want to pay more than retail.
sellersm
10-07-2017, 13:34
Not the same thing, but I know that Tac Con 3MR triggers are at least 3-4 weeks out. They're waiting on their suppliers in Switzerland or wherever before they can even begin to make some more... One vendor sold over 500 of them in a few days this past week.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Great-Kazoo
10-07-2017, 18:20
Just wait till they backorder Timmney Triggers for your bolt action, Zev for the glock and other assorted firearm triggers
Ordered one for the Zenith MP5K style gun. Will let you know what I think of it when it arrives.
bobbyfairbanks
11-02-2017, 07:33
Franklin binary showed up and man is it fun to shoot. Now I want one of those 556 belt fed AR15 uppers
kidicarus13
11-02-2017, 08:05
Franklin binary showed up and man is it fun to shoot. Now I want one of those 556 belt fed AR15 uppers
$3500 to $4500? Damn!
Ordered one for the Zenith MP5K style gun. Will let you know what I think of it when it arrives.
I'd be very interested to check this out.
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