Elk Hunting w/165gr .308 Accubonds?

[VDW]

I got 2 .308s for my wife to try out (1 w/a youth stock). Now I need to settle on a load. She is petite and not very fond of recoil. We are going elk hunting, so I need something stout enough to knock down an elk reliably for a novice (I'm well aware that just about anything will do with good shot placement [Beer]).

I will be loading my own ammo, but I need to decide on a bullet weight/powder combo. I'm already sold on the Nosler Accubond due to outstanding results I've had with my .30-06 200gr/Win 760 combo. I'm thinking 165 Accubonds on top of a load of 760 I'll have to work up to. Based on my reloading books, my guess is I'll end up with around 2600 fps (don't want to load it to the max for her), which would give me about 2259 ft/lbs at 100 yds, and 1870 at 300 w/a 3" drop. The ballistics on that should be fine, as she won't be shooting past about 200 probably, anyways. I think we're good on the energy too, any thoughts?

[VDW]

No one has an opinion on this? Is 165gr in a .30 bullet too light for elk for a novice hunter?

[DOC]

Sounds good. I don't want to step on your toes here. But maybe you hit the nail on the head the first time. Why not take her out and let her shoot a few rounds and tell her they are underpowered and see if she can handle it. Then if she can't go with the under-loading.

[VDW]

Thanks for the input...definitely not stepping on my toes, I want your opinion. I just want to make sure the 165s are heavy enough. I ordered some 165s and 180s, so I guess I'll try them both.

[gengra]

My 2 cents, for what it's worth.
I feel that 165/168 gr. are the best for a 308/30.06 put some match turrets on your scope and your in fat city. But for the petite wife ( mine is 5' and shoots .270 semi auto) Put a GREAT recoil pad on her rifle! Not just good,but Great. Make sure she has a perfect lenght of pull. The youth rifles are lighter, thus making them kick harder. For your load I would consider using a slower burning powder. FYI-My wife hates shooting factory loads. This is a good way to sell her on your reloading.:)
Good luck!
G

[VDW]

Thanks for the input. We took it up yesterday. I worked up some loads with 165s and 180s. I think she can handle either fairly well. She didn't much care for the recoil from the bench, but the gun comes with a really nice 1+" thick recoil P.A.D. that they're so proud of at Savage, they make an acronym out of it and hung a tag on the trigger guard going on and on about its virtues. I shot about 60 rounds going up to some pretty hot loads. I hit them all with the chronograph so I could see how much of a difference it made pushing the max. It didn't seem to be more than 100 fps or so between the mild loads and the hot loads that even I felt the recoil on. Still, nothing compared to my .30-06 hunting loads (200gr Accubond, 52.0gr 760).

[VDW]

2500fps for the 180gr w/46.0gr 760 w/CCI Large Rifle Magnum primers
2500fps for the 165gr w/46.0gr 760 w/CCI Large Rifle Magnum primers

Why is that? It seems like most of the load data is pretty much the same for the 2 also. I don't know why, but I worked up in .5gr increments up to 47.5gr of 760 on the 165grs and the velocity stayed within about 50 fps.

Anyways, according to my free WinBallistics, zeroed at 100 yds, the drop on the 180 at 2500 fps @ 7000ft. will only be 4.27" at 300 yds, w/2498 ft/lbs muzzle, and 1928 ft/lbs at 300 yds.

The 165 will drop 4.33" at 300 yds, w/2289 ft/lbs muzzle and 1736 ft/lbs at 300.

The recoil seemed to be pretty similar between the 2, and with the same velocity with the same amount of powder, the 180 actually seems to have quite an advantage downrange, so maybe I'll stick with that? I really thought the 165s would come out a bit hotter and would kick less.

So, I guess to my original question now that I know velocities and energy. Is the energy with the 165s sufficient for a novice hunter to cleanly and consistently kill an elk with a decent shot?

I will probably end up going with the 180s because the 165s don't seem to be giving any advantage in velocity/recoil reduction, though.

[VDW]

Oh, I forgot to mention, those were velocities out of used Winchester .308 brass. I also trimmed and loaded some used 7.62X51 brass, which seemed to consistently give about 100 fps higher velocities for the same amount of powder.

(Now I've done it)

[ROFL1]

[Beer]

[VDW]

Oh, and incidentally, the 7.62 cases were loaded using non-magnum primers, even though they yielded higher velocities. The .308 cases were loaded with magnum primers.

[earplug]

You should have bought a smaller caliber round for your wife. Such as a 257-7MM A smaller round will offer a better sectional density and ballistic coefficient in a lighter bullet. So you get less recoil and good penetration for large game.
Shoot 150-165 grain bullets with your 308 and the Elk will cooperate if she hits them right.
Make sure her rifle is set up with a nice trigger. That makes target practice much more enjoyable.

[jgang]

I shoot 160g Accubonds in my 7 Mag. Flat shooting, hard hitting and definitely enough for elk. Last kill was on a 550# cow at 365 yards. The bullet smashed through two ribs, 10-ringed the heart, and came to rest just under the skin on the off side. 121g retained weight with a perfect mushroom.

[jerrymrc]

Oh, I forgot to mention, those were velocities out of used Winchester .308 brass. I also trimmed and loaded some used 7.62X51 brass, which seemed to consistently give about 100 fps higher velocities for the same amount of powder.

(Now I've done it)

[ROFL1]

[Beer]

Here is why. I posted this on another forum last year. Case Volume,

So I am loading some of my brass and I realize that I do not have this info on my stuff. We all know the Military vs commercial brass but I started thinking ( I know bad thing for me) So I have LC, Aussie, PMJ and some FC/win brass.

All had been sized and trimmed. So my un technical method was to fill each case with ball powder and weigh.

First up was the old LC brass. Came in at 52.4 grains. next was the FC and as expected much more volume at 55.2 Grains. So how does the Aussie compare? Came in at 52.8 grains so the volume is comparable to LC.

The main point of this post is that many (myself included) have purchased "Military brass" already sized that included PMJ. I have used it to load some AP keeping it separated from the LC.

The PMJ came in at 54.8 grains. This is much closer to the FC than the LC. I wanted to point this out because many might just take the mixed brass and load all the same even though the PMJ is listed as "Military".

Just some thoughts gang.

[Troublco]

The military brass has thicker case walls, so you have higher pressure which is why you get the higher velocity.
My preferred .308 hunting bullet is the Sierra Game King Hollow Point 165 grain over about 41 grains of Accurate 2460 with a Remington 7 1/2 large rifle primer. It basically duplicates a military 7.62 load, and is what I used to use with 168 SMK's for High Power shooting. My last elk was a medium size cow at 350 yards, and the bullet got her in the liver (I missed the heart by about an inch), passed all the way through. When I came down off recoil she was on her back, legs flailing. She popped back up, but didn't go too far.
The .308 is, in my opinion, about the best all around cartridge I know of. For years, my only hunting rifle was a Remington 700 BDL in .308. I've used it on coyotes, antelope, deer, elk, I've even headshot a few rabbits with it. The Nosler bullet you mention is a good choice too. Plus, you can get UMC or American Eagle ammo to practice with, not to mention surplus. There's an old saying, "Beware the hunter with one gun!" because when you use the same one all the time, you get to know it very well and get really good with it.

[SA Friday]

VDW, What were the groupings with the various reloads? It's the only thing that matters until you get below MOA. Once there, chrono and chart the round out.

Either weight Accubond bullet at any velocity on the reloading charts will do the job as long as you are staying within the bullet's killing range and the shooter's abilities.

[cowboykjohnson]

165gr accubonds is good enough for elk if you place a got shot. I've hit elk with 180gr accubonds from a .300 mag and they still took of for a good 200 yds with a perfect heart shot or lung shot.

[VDW]

Groupings were OK, but to be honest, neither of us are that good of a shot at 100 yards with a cheap 3-9x scope. We also didn't spend that much time trying to get a perfect group. We spent most of the time just trying to get the scope close, and trying to get a good velocity/recoil combo. We decided to go with the 180gr. this year, because we couldn't feel much of a difference in recoil (it has a pretty good recoil pad), and the amount of recoil seemed to be OK for her.

Ended up not mattering...should have spent more time on how to shoulder the rifle from a slung position then at the range...

We ran into 8+ head at about 30 yards as we crested the back side of a hill on the first day (about 2 hours in). I was up on target on a tasty looking yearling and waiting for her to shoot. She never did, and they ended up sprinting away. Turns out she unslung the rifle backwards, then flipped it around only to find it was upside down...by the time she figured it out, they were gone! [ROFL2]

Those were the only elk we saw all week within shooting range. I should have just taken my shot...damn!

[BlueMntCeltic]

My 2 cents, for what it's worth.
I feel that 165/168 gr. are the best for a 308/30.06 put some match turrets on your scope and your in fat city. But for the petite wife ( mine is 5' and shoots .270 semi auto) Put a GREAT recoil pad on her rifle! Not just good,but Great. Make sure she has a perfect lenght of pull. The youth rifles are lighter, thus making them kick harder. For your load I would consider using a slower burning powder. FYI-My wife hates shooting factory loads. This is a good way to sell her on your reloading.:)
Good luck!
G

+1 on the get a great pad.

I bought a RRA .308 mid-length and it came with an "inexpensive' collapsable stock. Found out the same week it came that Limbsaver is making their pad to fit collapsable stocks. Bought it, and it is excellent. Went from, "Gee, that smarts a little", to 'Did something just jump a little? '

[Zombie Steve]

165 Accubonds can certainly do the trick.

I might be more picky about the shot... double lung instead of a shoulder shot on a big bull, for example.

If I'm understanding your posts correctly, you were getting about the same performance from 165's and 180's. If so, definitely go with the 180.

[Not_A_Llama]

Whooo! 2.5 year necroposting.

[Zombie Steve]

Awwwww, yeah.

I didn't notice.