View Full Version : BOHICA (federal bump stock ban)
Zundfolge
10-04-2017, 15:04
Feinswine has put forth a bill that is so poorly worded that it will likely outlaw all aftermarket triggers.
PDF of the bill
(https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/a/7/a7493ca2-0cd7-416a-8d1f-929d89e71572/0141802AFBB99AC5EA299D5B71B98A52.automatic-gunfire-prevention-act.pdf)
The offending bit:
...on and after the date that is 180 days after the date of enactment of this subsection, it shall be unlawful for any person to import, sell, manufacture, transfer, or possess, in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce, a trigger crank, a bump-fire device, or any part, combination of parts, component, device, attachment, or accessory that is designed or functions to accelerate the rate of fire of a semi-automatic rifle but not convert the semiautomatic rifle into a machinegun.
so they don't define what "accelerate the rate of fire" is ... so if I put a heavier hammer spring that decreases lock-time by a tenth of a millisecond have I just violated this law? Can you argue that my 3.5lb Timney trigger "accelerates the rate of fire" of my AR?
DireWolf
10-04-2017, 15:12
Feinswine has put forth a bill that is so poorly worded that it will likely outlaw all aftermarket triggers.
PDF of the bill
(https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/a/7/a7493ca2-0cd7-416a-8d1f-929d89e71572/0141802AFBB99AC5EA299D5B71B98A52.automatic-gunfire-prevention-act.pdf)
The offending bit:
so they don't define what "accelerate the rate of fire" is ... so if I put a heavier hammer spring that decreases lock-time by a tenth of a millisecond have I just violated this law? Can you argue that my 3.5lb Timney trigger "accelerates the rate of fire" of my AR?
"...or accessory that is designed or functions to accelerate the rate of fire of a semi-automatic rifle but not convert the semiautomatic rifle into a machinegun"
Like this?
(it is the proper color accessory for inclusion, after all...)
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171004/c1d62ba448afbf89f24c69b08034ced1.jpg
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wctriumph
10-04-2017, 15:43
Got to ban something guns.
Great-Kazoo
10-04-2017, 15:58
Got to ban something guns.
Perhaps she should start with her bodyguards ?
Lmfao what a waste of time. This bill is going to die immediately.
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hurley842002
10-04-2017, 17:12
Lmfao what a waste of time. This bill is going to die immediately.
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I'm glad you are so confident, I won't put anything past Ryan and the rest of the Rinos.
I'm glad you are so confident, I won't put anything past Ryan and the rest of the Rinos.
Passing any gun control will destroy their reelection chances.
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Great-Kazoo
10-04-2017, 18:33
Passing any gun control will destroy their reelection chances.
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As if any of them have a chance. There's a new wave of outrage since the 16 Trump win. Which has mobilized every feels voter to do better next election cycle.
Combine that with a GOP who had 8 years to formulate a somewhat reasonable health care replacement. YET when they hold a majority in both house & senate then FAILED to get anything passed outside a bowel movement. IMO The GOP has a NO Confidence Vote from me, as they do from others.
NPR had an interview with a senator from Maryland who is supporting this bill.
He lamented the fact that he couldn't do an AR ban and UBC bill, but noted this was a good start and common sense.
As if any of them have a chance. There's a new wave of outrage since the 16 Trump win. Which has mobilized every feels voter to do better next election cycle.
Combine that with a GOP who had 8 years to formulate a somewhat reasonable health care replacement. YET when they hold a majority in both house & senate then FAILED to get anything passed outside a bowel movement. IMO The GOP has a NO Confidence Vote from me, as they do from others.
I don't have a lot of confidence in them for most things. Being pro-gun is about the only thing they have going for them. I don't think they would shoot themselves in the foot that hard.
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I consider a bump stock ban within the realm of possibility. They're a very niche novelty item, so there's not going to be a user base with enough clout to defeat a ban, especially when the argument will boil down to "fun" vs "worst mass shooting ever."
That said, they should be forced to fight for every inch of such a ban.
hurley842002
10-04-2017, 19:37
Like I said on another forum, I'm not in favor of ANY additional laws, but I won't miss bump stocks if they get banned.
Same.
If the GOP were halfway smart they'd trade a bump stock ban for passage of the HPA,but they won't because they suck.
DireWolf
10-04-2017, 21:14
Don't give an inch.
^This. Period.
No further restrictions. No more twisted, convoluted, and utterly subjective laws. Ban anything that can allow one to shoot faster? Faster than what?
Have never owned a bump-stock. Have never wanted one, for several reasons. That said, who the fuck am I (or any of us for that matter) to tell someone else they can't have a different opinion?
Absolute bullshit....
Will1776
10-04-2017, 22:18
Give an inch and they take a mile. Take a lesson from my home state of CT. First we started off with pistol permits and a two feature ban. Then they passed pain in the a** to get permits for everything even ammo and .22 rifles and universal background checks where you have to fill out forms and send them to police. And they passed one feature ban where even featureless ARs are illegal. We cannot allow this to spread.
theGinsue
10-05-2017, 15:12
For those of you who don't think it'll happen, you'd better think again. In addition to the several GOP members of Congress who've voiced support for banning the bump fire stock, now the NRA has joined them. My opinion is the NRA's endorsement of this regulation is the straw that broke the camels back.
Source: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/10/05/nra-calls-for-atf-review-bump-stocks-new-regulations-after-las-vegas-shooting.html
NRA calls for ATF review of bump stocks, new regulations after Las Vegas shooting
The National Rifle Association, in its first statement on the Las Vegas shooting and in a rare break from its traditional opposition to gun-related regulations, called Thursday for a federal review of so-called bump stocks and suggested new rules might be needed for the device apparently used by the shooter in Sunday’s massacre.
“The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations,” the NRA said in a written statement.
Bump stocks can be used to effectively convert semi-automatic rifles to fire so rapidly as to simulate an automatic weapon. The devices were found on guns used by Las Vegas shooter Stephen Paddock, who killed 59 and injured hundreds Sunday night.
The Obama administration’s ATF gave its seal of approval to selling the devices in 2010 after concluding that they did not violate federal law. On Thursday, the NRA called on the ATF to review that assessment.
“In Las Vegas, reports indicate that certain devices were used to modify the firearms involved,” the NRA said. “Despite the fact that the Obama administration approved the sale of bump fire stocks on at least two occasions, the National Rifle Association is calling on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) to immediately review whether these devices comply with federal law.”
The NRA had remained largely silent since the worst mass shooting in modern U.S. history. In its written statement Thursday, the powerful gun lobby made clear its general position that gun control is not the answer to such tragedies:
"In the aftermath of the evil and senseless attack in Las Vegas, the American people are looking for answers as to how future tragedies can be prevented. Unfortunately, the first response from some politicians has been to call for more gun control. Banning guns from law-abiding Americans based on the criminal act of a madman will do nothing to prevent future attacks.”
But the call to reconsider rules for bump stocks comes as lawmakers from both parties gear up to consider legislation on the matter.
Fox News has learned that Rep. Carlos Curbelo, R-Fla., is writing a bipartisan bill to ban bump stocks.
House Speaker Paul Ryan, R-Wis., in an interview with Hugh Hewitt, also opened the door to looking at the issue.
And White House Counselor Kellyanne Conway, speaking Thursday on “Fox & Friends,” indicated a willingness to consider restrictions.
“We always welcome a thoughtful conversation on policy and issues. The Second Amendment is a bedrock in our Constitution along with the First Amendment. These rights must be protected,” she said. “But … I know this is something that many legislators have been telling us and I read publicly that they have never even heard of the device before. And they are in Congress. So, many of them are open to a conversation.”
Bump stocks are legal and originally were intended to help people with limited hand mobility fire a semi-automatic without the individual trigger pulls required. They can fit over the rear shoulder-stock assembly on an automatic rifle and with applied pressure cause the weapon to fire continuously, increasing the rate from between 45 and 60 rounds per minute to between 400 and 800 rounds per minute, according to California Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein’s office.
Feinstein, a prominent advocate for gun control, already has legislation to ban bump stocks.
Retailers and manufacturers are seeing an apparent surge in interest in so-called bump stocks as Congress eyes a possible crackdown. Slide Fire, which makes bump stocks, announced on its website it is suspending new orders, with a message indicating the company’s supply is low. Another site that sells the company’s products said in a message online that the device is “out of stock” and backordered.
Even the Senate’s No. 2 Republican, John Cornyn of Texas, opened the door to new restrictions.
"If somebody can essentially convert a semi-automatic weapon by buying one of these and utilizing it and cause the kind of mayhem and mass casualties that we saw in Las Vegas, that's something of obvious concern that we ought to explore," Cornyn told reporters.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Oh, and I love this:
Bump stocks are legal and originally were intended to help people with limited hand mobility fire a semi-automatic without the individual trigger pulls required. They can fit over the rear shoulder-stock assembly on an automatic rifle and with applied pressure cause the weapon to fire continuously, increasing the rate from between 45 and 60 rounds per minute to between 400 and 800 rounds per minute, according to California Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein’s office.
Um, if it's already an automatic rifle, why would you want/need a bump fire stock? Twits!
How many people in Chicago were shot by ARs with bump stocks?
Pointless posturing by politicians who only have the power to pass useless legislation.
Be safe.
We can ban these only if they forbid private body guards from being armed, and secret service protection be removed from all current and former civil servants and elected officials except current executive branch members.
Don't give an inch.
Not even a fraction of a fraction of an inch.
Give them nothing
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QkWuYr0cD4M Ban sticks too?
The NRA folks, and anyone here who is all "Oh, what a tactical move by the NRA! Don't worry! It's a distraction! gush gush gush on fudd knob..." need to google: Col. Mike Mullane Normalization of Deviance and watch his 4 part presentation on the concept.
The incrementalism being espoused is EXACTLY the same as normalization of deviance, because it's deviating from the standard of what things should be. It's the same mindset which has given us such dumbasses as Paul Ryan and Lindsey Graham.
The "republican" party of today is more liberal than the democrats of the 1950's. Folks who espouse the same political vision and adherence to a standard as the Founding Fathers are vilified by the GOP as extremists; McCarthy was right, simply.
Let's face it: Cultural Marxism has rotted the core of American values and left us with a shell of a country that, frankly, at this point is probably not worth saving. But there is still hope. It just necessitates a giant collective popping of the culture's head from the culture's ass.
kbbeckius
10-07-2017, 07:36
Here's an idea I had for some new legislation regarding this.....
Reclassify bump stocks as NFA items, like registered sears, and in doing so the '86 ban on new registrations would need to be eliminated....lol, yeah it ain't gonna happen....
Will1776
10-07-2017, 09:48
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QkWuYr0cD4M Ban sticks too?
hahahaha that is awesome. I need to find a dowel before todays range day to try that out lol
Not even a fraction of a fraction of an inch.
Give them nothing
If the only option is to stand on principle and not participate, the graboids will push it as far as they can. I know you want to Molon all of the Labe, but at the end of the day, over 500 people were shot and the average citizen doesn't care about the difference between a bump stock and an honest-to-God full-auto.
The NRA, and anyone who's capable of grasping what's happened here knows that political fallout is inevitable, and at this point, the best possible option for the NRA is to get out in front of the issue, and do what they can to shape whatever legislation gets proposed in order to minimize the eventual impact. Note that they haven't even publicly voiced support for legislation, but are pressing for ATF to re-classify bump stocks, presumably as an NFA item. Sure, it's going to suck if the result is bump-stock enthusiasts are forced to pay a $200 tax for a shitty stock that lets you do a mag dump with no real world accuracy, but that's a much better solution than poorly written legislation drafted by an old crone that, broadly interpreted would ban everything from bump stocks to 2-stage National Match competition triggers.
If such a reclassification could be tied to implementation of the HPA and/or National Reciprocity, frankly, that would be taking a horrible situation and spinning it into a massive win.
I've seen no indication on the number of people trampled vs. shot, nor a count. If you've got a source I'm certainly interested.
Regardless, for the purposes of political fallout, it's a distinction without much of a difference.
wctriumph
10-07-2017, 17:16
I just put my thumb through the trigger guard and hook in my change pocket and my Bushy empties a Pmag pretty quickly. It takes a bit of practice to get the feel for it. Same for my SKS and I tried it once on my M1 carbine. Of course shooting from the hip is not real accurate but it was fun to do a few times.
I'm in agreement that giving an inch is a risky proposition and am generally against it. However, I do wonder if there is a point that we are going to have to be politically savvy. Right now, and with recent mass shootings, popular opinion is going against us. Now we may all agree it's because people are irrational morons but the fact is the political climate is likely to continue going against the 2nd amendment. If we decide to dig our heels in and not move on anything ever, I'm a bit worried what that will lead to. Stone walking generally doesn't work in the long run.
I don't have the answers and I hate legislating just about anything. I say just leave people alone. But I feel the tides are turning and if we don't give in on some minor things we may be stuck getting something more major rammed down our throats.
I expect them to try outlawing Tannerite and other binary targets too. Think of the chil'rens!
MAC with some details on bills.
Not merely a bump ban like some gun owners are saying ok i don't care to.....
https://youtu.be/sCLoIorYguU
I don't want the "bump" stock banned.
I don't like the "bump" stock but I don't want it banned.
My membership at the Golden Gun Club requires that I be a member of the NRA. I've been giving serious thought to dumping the goddamn NRA for a couple of years now but I like being 30 minutes from my range. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
The clock is ticking closer to the time that the true intention of the 2nd Ammendment is realized.
With all the "firearms enthusiasts" readily jumping on the common-sense reasonable bumpstock ban/reclassification/regulation bandwagon, Feinstein/Bloomberg/Giffords must be smiling from ear to ear. They certainly don't need to push more anti-gun laws when the gun community will do all their work for them.
What's next guys, should the NRA/GOPe have BATFE revisit the legality of a hole in the muzzle? Afterall, it does facilitate a projectile exiting the barrel...
:(
Well, you probably won't have anything to worry about.
Like usual, it appears the graboids are going to use this as an opportunity to go after way more than just bump stocks.
They'll over reach, try to pass a ban that covers everything from bump stocks to muzzle brakes, which will hopefully result in them being smacked down.
With any luck, this is what they'll get:
http://i.imgur.com/1HWQIPa.gif
This is out of the news cycle already. No need to act, let legislation die by not even bringing it to the floor
kidicarus13
11-03-2017, 10:03
Slide Fire resumes sales.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/01/smallbusiness/slide-fire-bump-stocks/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fmoney_latest+%28CNNMone y%3A+Latest+News%29
68Charger
11-03-2017, 10:21
This is out of the news cycle already. No need to act, let legislation die by not even bringing it to the floor
so pathetic that our law making system is driven by news organizations... especially considering the bias.
ETA: I guess I should be glad that they have a short attention span- but the opinion of elitist leftards in news organizations is no method for a system of government.
https://youtu.be/IMw0g7m8IVE
I have seen another thread on the Denver bump stock but haven't seen any others regarding the national one. Just wanted to post this for others to take advantage of the comment period.
Also posted a video of why this is important and not just about bump stocks. I'm thinking everyone else is already heard of this. Posted just in case.
https://www.gunownersamerica.com/atf-speak-up-now/
68Charger
01-22-2018, 12:02
(http://<br /><a href="https://www.gunownersamerica.com/atf-speak-up-now/" target="_blank">https://www.gunownersamerica.com/atf-speak-up-now/</a>)
https://www.gunownersamerica.com/atf-speak-up-now/ (https://www.gunownersamerica.com/atf-speak-up-now/?email=mzmadmike@gmail.com)
You may want to edit the URL in your post... it has your email on the end of it...
You may want to edit the URL in your post... it has your email on the end of it...Thanks
Great-Kazoo
01-22-2018, 13:08
https://youtu.be/IMw0g7m8IVE
I have seen another thread on the Denver bump stock but haven't seen any others regarding the national one.
https://www.gunownersamerica.com/atf-speak-up-now/
Other thread
https://www.ar-15.co/threads/166486-Denver-Bump-Stock-Ban-Mag-Ban/page2
https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...s#open-comment
kidicarus13
02-20-2018, 15:15
President Donald Trump has announced his intention to ban so-called "bump stock", which were used to kill 58 people in Las Vegas last year.
Mr Trump made the announcement at the White House Tuesday, saying that he had signed a memorandum instructing the Justice Department to regulate the firearm accessories that can speed up the rate of fire for semi-automatic rifles.
The announcement comes just under a week after the latest mass shooting in America, when 17 people were killed at a high school in Parkland, Florida. That shooter, a 19-year-old man, wielded a semi-automatic rifle, but did not have a bump stock equipped.
Rucker61
02-20-2018, 15:30
President Donald Trump has announced his intention to ban so-called "bump stock", which were used to kill 58 people in Las Vegas last year.
Mr Trump made the announcement at the White House Tuesday, saying that he had signed a memorandum instructing the Justice Department to regulate the firearm accessories that can speed up the rate of fire for semi-automatic rifles.
The announcement comes just under a week after the latest mass shooting in America, when 17 people were killed at a high school in Parkland, Florida. That shooter, a 19-year-old man, wielded a semi-automatic rifle, but did not have a bump stock equipped.
Pretty sure Congress makes the laws in the US.
Great-Kazoo
02-20-2018, 15:42
Pretty sure Congress makes the laws in the US.
didn't stop the last administration, nor will it stop the spineless legislators from emoting another law.
Will1776
02-20-2018, 15:44
Ugh. Anyone know the likelihood of a grandfather clause?
I thought I heard President Trump state he'd defend the Second Amendment during SOTU.
President Donald Trump has announced his intention to ban so-called "bump stock", which were used to kill 58 people in Las Vegas last year.
Mr Trump made the announcement at the White House Tuesday, saying that he had signed a memorandum instructing the Justice Department to regulate the firearm accessories that can speed up the rate of fire for semi-automatic rifles.
The announcement comes just under a week after the latest mass shooting in America, when 17 people were killed at a high school in Parkland, Florida. That shooter, a 19-year-old man, wielded a semi-automatic rifle, but did not have a bump stock equipped.Do you think maybe the NRA had something to do with it?
Scanker19
02-20-2018, 16:54
The great irony is that we may end up with more gun restrictions under trump than anyone.
People who voted for Trump are about to find out if they are as smart as they think they are.
KevDen2005
02-20-2018, 17:07
People who voted for Trump are about to find out if they are as smart as they think they are.
Don't blame me I'm with Her!
Great-Kazoo
02-20-2018, 17:10
The great irony is that we may end up with more gun restrictions under trump than anyone.
People who voted for Trump are about to find out if they are as smart as they think they are.
Anyone who believed Trump was a R let along conservative was / is living in a land o unicorns. He's been a serious D supporter for many a year. Some of you may remember me saying his intention was to disrupt the R party, like there has been one.
Unfortunately he's still better choice than hillary. Who would have EO'd a semi auto ban after the first shooting.
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