View Full Version : Sooooo, I just got charged with Harassment
GilpinGuy
10-08-2017, 03:19
18-9-111 (1)(a) to be exact. I got a summons, not arrested.
It's a steaming pile of bovine excrement, but alas, court is in 6 weeks.
It's probably not the best idea to discuss details here. Are any of the legal scholars on here willing to give me any NONBINDING, OFF THE RECORD, "just two guys talking" kind of thoughts via PM?
I'm not really looking for specific legal "advice". More of what to expect, etc. I haven't been in a courtroom in 25 freaking years. Hell, maybe I need a recommendation for an attorney, I don't know. This whole thing seems frivolous to me, but who knows.
Thanks.
BushMasterBoy
10-08-2017, 06:49
If your lawyer knows more than the state i.e. cop, prosecutor, judge etc you will get it dismissed. Dig up dirt on the "victim". Lots of other stuff you can do too. Good luck on your case!
http://www.lpdirect.net/casb/crs/18-9-111.html
Sorry.
There are some great folks on here who I'm sure will help out.
Since the charge (1a) implies violence (obviously you aren't talking details) I would seriously consider hiring counsel.
USMC88-93
10-08-2017, 07:48
Lawyer (and a good one) ...........Now.
BushMasterBoy
10-08-2017, 08:37
Run a background check on the complainant. Then you can see if they have a "history". Whatever you do, don't contact the person. It sucks when you have to study the law to protect yourself from a-holes!
Get a copy of the police report too.
https://www.intelius.com/criminal-records
GilpinGuy
10-08-2017, 09:28
This happened at work and it was a "guest" that insisted on pressing charges (not a coworker). No way I'm going to court without an attorney, whether work provides one for me or I have to hire one myself. Calls will be made in a few hours to decide which it will be.
Also, I'd like to avoid any LEO bashing here. They had nothing to do with this and only did what they were required to do at the time. Not their fault in this incident at all.
Does your place of employment have any provision for legal counsel for employees for something in the line of duty? Why would the plaintiff have you charged but not also be pursuing action against the place of employment? Could it be they know an army of lawyers will rip their ass to shreds over BS, but think they have a chance to get back at you, a relative peon? Does the place of employment have security cam footage of the incident? Given its location, I cannot but think they do -- and if they do, why are you still an employee if guilty as shown as video footage? Hrm.
GilpinGuy
10-08-2017, 09:39
Does your place of employment have any provision for legal counsel for employees for something in the line of duty? Why would the plaintiff have you charged but not also be pursuing action against the place of employment? Could it be they know an army of lawyers will rip their ass to shreds over BS, but think they have a chance to get back at you, a relative peon? Does the place of employment have security cam footage of the incident? Given its location, I cannot but think they do -- and if they do, why are you still an employee if guilty as shown as video footage? Hrm.
Good questions. I'm not sure about about all of them except the "peon" part. That I surely am. And yeah, there is lots of video footage and I was told I wouldn't be fired, but that could change at will.
BushMasterBoy
10-08-2017, 10:37
You can always subpoena the video footage. I would advise my employer to not erase the video. That would be destroying evidence. If the employer is smart, their counsel will defend you. If you are lucky, the plaintiff will not show in court.
OtterbatHellcat
10-08-2017, 11:15
I'm hoping the best for you in this, brother. Bummer that you're having to go through it however.
That sux!
I know a lawyer that could probably recommend good council. PM me if you still need one.
Is this a civil case then?
Wish you the best, GilpinGuy.
Run a background check on the complainant. Then you can see if they have a "history". Whatever you do, don't contact the person. It sucks when you have to study the law to protect yourself from a-holes!
Get a copy of the police report too.
https://www.intelius.com/criminal-records
NO, a thousand times NO. Intelius and all those internet background site checks have stale and often incorrect data. Waste of money.
Also, make sure your counsel has a damn good paralegal or a licensed PI that is skilled at OSINT.
Throwing drunks out on their ass again GG?
GilpinGuy
10-08-2017, 21:54
I was told today that my employer will provide counsel for this incident and they are considering pressing charges against the other individual.
Many thanks to those that have offered their thoughts in the thread and especially via PM. What an awesome community we have here.
GilpinGuy
10-08-2017, 22:04
Throwing drunks out on their ass again GG?
That happens every single day. This one was a bit more complicated.
One thing I can say about this industry is that it's "interesting". You see people do shit that you would never see anywhere else. It's like they feel they have a license to behave badly when they are here. Just when you think you've seen it all, you see something and you think, "WTF? Seriously?" We call it "adult babysitting".
Ya know, a good friend of mine and I were sort of keeping a journal of crazy shit that goes down for a few years. Every now and then we'd have a few beers and read through the stuff and laugh our asses off. Keith passed suddenly a few years ago (RIP brother), so that all stopped. But I always thought you could make a hilarious sit-com about casinos. What a business......
OtterbatHellcat
10-08-2017, 22:11
I was told today that my employer will provide counsel for this incident and they are considering pressing charges against the other individual.
Many thanks to those that have offered their thoughts in the thread and especially via PM. What an awesome community we have here.
Hey, I'm glad to hear that you have support on your side, that's super cool they're stepping up and supporting you.
And I agree with you, great folks here...and you're part of that.
BushMasterBoy
10-08-2017, 22:16
Always worked for me!
NO, a thousand times NO. Intelius and all those internet background site checks have stale and often incorrect data. Waste of money.
Also, make sure your counsel has a damn good paralegal or a licensed PI that is skilled at OSINT.
I always thought you could make a hilarious sit-com about casinos. What a business......
That's probably not a bad idea, you may be on to something there! I wonder if you could sell that idea somehow.
JohnTRourke
10-09-2017, 08:46
I was told today that my employer will provide counsel for this incident and they are considering pressing charges against the other individual.
.
Their lawyer is representing them. (the employer). YOU need your own lawyer protecting YOUR interests.
Always worked for me!
The issue is that anyone can access it with a credit card, which means there are practically no controls in place to make sure that the data provided is actually the John Smith you're looking for....and not his son, John Smith II, or a John Smith that happened to live at the same address ten years prior, and that it is complete, etc. PIs have access to databases that are far more accurate- and when dealing with a court case involving yourself/job/reputation/background, you don't want to take chances on "good enough".
Their lawyer is representing them. (the employer). YOU need your own lawyer protecting YOUR interests.
Bingo.
Ya know, a good friend of mine and I were sort of keeping a journal of crazy shit that goes down for a few years.
COPS meets Romper Room?
GilpinGuy
03-08-2018, 06:45
I got word that the charges will be dismissed by the DA due to "no possibility of conviction". He finally watched video of the entire event with my attorney and said, "That's it?" then rolled his eyes and shook his head.
Only took 5 months to get it over with, but at least it's over. Sheesh.
I got word that the charges will be dismissed by the DA due to "no possibility of conviction". He finally watched video of the entire event with my attorney and said, "That's it?" then rolled his eyes and shook his head.
Only took 5 months to get it over with, but at least it's over. Sheesh.
Great news!
What were the circumstances behind the incident? Sounds like someone wanting a payday.
Jeffrey Lebowski
03-08-2018, 07:02
Missed this at the time, but good to hear GG. [Beer]
I’ve been sued myself (different circumstances, but eventually tossed) and it is sort of a stressful eyeroller.
Bailey Guns
03-08-2018, 07:12
Good news for sure. Congrats!
henpecked
03-08-2018, 07:15
Glad things worked out for you.
Great news! Unfortunate it takes so long to have it dismissed so easily.
I know "speedy trial" no longer means anything, but this is ridiculous.
Glad to hear it worked out for you.
thedave1164
03-08-2018, 08:02
GOOD!
buffalobo
03-08-2018, 08:13
About time.[emoji106]
If you're unarmed, you are a victim
SouthPaw
03-08-2018, 10:01
Good to hear!
3beansalad
03-08-2018, 10:33
Excellent news. With that the saga ends
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GilpinGuy
03-08-2018, 10:55
Great news!
What were the circumstances behind the incident? Sounds like someone wanting a payday.
I suppose it's OK to reveal some of the story now. I hate to even write this after the other thread about the barking guy and the trend it may imply (it doesn't). But it's the truth, so here it is.
The short story is that an African American "lady" was acting like a complete asshole and I decided to toss her out due to her unacceptable behavior. She refused to leave (said "I ain't leaving and you can't make me") so I called the police to have her removed. While waiting forever for the police to arrive, this person was going nuts, calling everyone in sight a racist, yadda, yadda.
At one point, she whipped out her cell phone, said that I was a racist, among other things, and that she was going to "put this on Facebook". I advised her that we don't allow pictures or videos to be taken in the casino (for obvious reasons) but her response was basically "f-you I can do what I want". See a pattern here? When she held the phone up to my face, something snapped in me and I grabbed it out of her hand (not the best move, I know). I was thinking "this can't happen". She grabbed it back and that was it. No further contact.
When the police did finally arrive, they asked me if I wanted to press any charges (trespassing, etc.) but I told them no, as long as she is off our property I was happy. Then one officer basically convinced her to press charges against me. The other officer there was obviously not comfortable with this idea. The body cam footage was infuriating. That one officer is a POS in my book now, and he saw the footage from our surveillance footage before convincing her, so he knew this was petty bullshit. I see him a few times a week too. Kinda sad that I have zero respect for him now, but have to act professionally toward him. (please - no sweeping LEO bashing, most I deal with with are awesome)
There's a lot more to this story, but I won't bore you with any more.
Great news! Unfortunate it takes so long to have it dismissed so easily.
I know "speedy trial" no longer means anything, but this is ridiculous.
Glad to hear it worked out for you.
From what I understand, "speedy trial" means within 6 months, unless you waive that. I had to go to a "hearing" three times since October. Each time my attorney and I sat there for 1-2 hours, then it was our turn. Each time the DA simply said that he has not reviewed this case at all, so let's schedule another hearing. Three times this happened. How freaking inefficient is that? No call saying, "Hey, umm, we need to reschedule because I'm buried in other important stuff, so how about this or that day/time instead?" My attorney drove from Denver to Gilpin County and sat there for 1-2 hours three times for nothing. The bill for this shit must me crazy.
Anyway, thanks for the kind thoughts guys. It's over. Freaking sweet! [Beer]
DenverGP
03-08-2018, 11:03
When the police did finally arrive, they asked me if I wanted to press any charges (trespassing, etc.) but I told them no, as long as she is off our property I was happy.
Seems like the standard response should be to press charges. Would give you guys some leverage against the assholes.
GilpinGuy
03-08-2018, 11:07
Seems like the standard response should be to press charges. Would give you guys some leverage against the assholes.
Yes, a fellow member of this forum edumacated me to this. If you can press charges, do so. Or they probably will against you.
BushMasterBoy
03-08-2018, 11:08
MAGA=Make America Gamble Again
GilpinGuy
03-08-2018, 11:15
MAGA=Make America Gamble Again
LMAO [LOL]
Come up for fun and to have a good time every so often. Don't get shitty drunk and be an a-hole, or lose the rent money.
BushMasterBoy
03-08-2018, 11:36
I always wanted to come to Blackhawk & Central City with one of those huge sewer sucker vacuum trucks. Just let me suck up all the gold dust that washes from the street drains to the creek. I was under the culvert one day with a sluice box and was getting some pretty good gold! This was 1993. There were pieces of gold the size of finger nail clippings. The miners call them pickers. Pick em out of the pan with your fingers...I hope this post doesn't start a new gold rush.
Damn! I was betting on conviction and hard time.
[Coffee]
CoGirl303
03-08-2018, 12:05
glad to hear it worked out in your favor. [emoji846]
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RblDiver
03-08-2018, 12:38
If you have good stories, share them on notalwaysright.com. There are some real doozies!
So glad it turned out okay.
Did your employer support through all of this?
It seems like a risk such an establishment takes. If they bow to every asshole, they will lose customers.
My not even two cents worth.
Your employer needs to figure out what you should do if someone is taking pictures. If you have a policy against it, you need to know what the response is. Sounds to me like there's a rule, but not a specified response. Get the response formalized. Personally, I'd suggest "Taking pictures is against policy. Please cease taking pictures [and leave the premises.]" The latter part can be added if it looks like there’s going to be trouble (this way you don't have to throw out Merle from Wichita Kansas if he just didn't know he wasn't supposed to take pictures).
As for asking people to leave the premises, I'd suggest that your employer make their policy: "If we ask you to leave and you do, that's fine. If you refuse we WILL charge you with trespass." This would have allowed her to be charged first and avoided your entire problem altogether.
But your employer needs to make it formal policy (subject to your discretion) in order to give you the tools to handle the situation.
O2
Ps. I'm not a lawyer nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn last night.
Wow... Glad it's over for you (sort of).
Martinjmpr
03-08-2018, 19:43
My not even two cents worth.
Your employer needs to figure out what you should do if someone is taking pictures. If you have a policy against it, you need to know what the response is. Sounds to me like there's a rule, but not a specified response. Get the response formalized. Personally, I'd suggest "Taking pictures is against policy. Please cease taking pictures [and leave the premises.]" The latter part can be added if it looks like there’s going to be trouble (this way you don't have to throw out Merle from Wichita Kansas if he just didn't know he wasn't supposed to take pictures).
I agree with this and also would add that under no circumstances should you touch anyone or any of their possessions unless doing so can be justified as protecting yourself or some other party (for example, if someone walks into a room filled with flammable fumes and whips out a cigarette lighter and moves as if to light a cigarette, you would almost certainly be justified in knocking it out of their hands.)
I understand why casinos don't like people taking video (presumably it's because video might be used to figure out a way to defeat the games or machines) but the amount of damage that can be done by a few seconds of shaky video is miniscule compared the potential problems that can come from grabbing someone's phone. Better to call the cops and have them hauled off the property and declared persona non grata.
Glad it worked out. Since you were on duty at the time did your employer cover your legal costs?
pickenup
03-09-2018, 00:13
I know you are glad that this if finally over.
Sounds like it worked out OK.
GilpinGuy
03-09-2018, 01:15
Did your employer support through all of this?
It seems like a risk such an establishment takes. If they bow to every asshole, they will lose customers.
Yes, 100%.
Your employer needs to figure out what you should do if someone is taking pictures. If you have a policy against it, you need to know what the response is. Sounds to me like there's a rule, but not a specified response. Get the response formalized. Personally, I'd suggest "Taking pictures is against policy. Please cease taking pictures [and leave the premises.]" The latter part can be added if it looks like there’s going to be trouble (this way you don't have to throw out Merle from Wichita Kansas if he just didn't know he wasn't supposed to take pictures).
As for asking people to leave the premises, I'd suggest that your employer make their policy: "If we ask you to leave and you do, that's fine. If you refuse we WILL charge you with trespass." This would have allowed her to be charged first and avoided your entire problem altogether.
But your employer needs to make it formal policy (subject to your discretion) in order to give you the tools to handle the situation.
[FONT=Arial]O2
I am working with Legal/Compliance on both of these things due to this very incident.
I agree with this and also would add that under no circumstances should you touch anyone or any of their possessions unless doing so can be justified as protecting yourself or some other party (for example, if someone walks into a room filled with flammable fumes and whips out a cigarette lighter and moves as if to light a cigarette, you would almost certainly be justified in knocking it out of their hands.)
I understand why casinos don't like people taking video (presumably it's because video might be used to figure out a way to defeat the games or machines) but the amount of damage that can be done by a few seconds of shaky video is miniscule compared the potential problems that can come from grabbing someone's phone. Better to call the cops and have them hauled off the property and declared persona non grata.
Glad it worked out. Since you were on duty at the time did your employer cover your legal costs?
All legal costs were covered and my employer was incredibly supportive.
As far as calling the cops - I did. It took forever, like 20 minutes. Having a lunatic woman scream at you for 20 minutes seems like an eternity. I just stood there and took all the verbal shit with a smile on my face.
I do agree that grabbing her phone was not the best decision. Here I was, white as can be (I call myself pink - super Irish guy on graveyards, LOL), being called every racial slur a black woman can hurl at me for 20 minutes. She threatened to put a video of me on Facebook and label me a racist. I made a millisecond decision that I couldn't allow that and it gave me some grief over the last few months. Lesson learned.
My standard procedure now, and I have used it, is to simply put my hand over my badge (name and Gaming License # on there) and say, "Is my hair OK? I want to look good" every time someone whips out a phone and tells me they're taking my picture.
I learned a valuable lesson years ago.
I was 17 and was involved in an "altercation" with a friend of mine and another kid on the street. To make a long story short I did the absolute minimum one could do in this whole thing.. My friend and the other kid had "competing" complaints and charges against each other and the kid had a complaint against me. My friend and the kid dropped the charges against each other and I was left stuck with a battery charge for "push/shoving with an aggressive nature"
I went to court, had a trial, and my attorney ABSOLUTELY DESTROYED that kid and his girlfriend in court to the point where the prosecutor was shaking his head in disbelief and the judge is yelling at them to answer the questions. Judge acquitted me saying, " After hearing the most pitiful testimony I had ever heard from [the witnesses], I find no evidence that even suggests the defendant was at the scene of the incident". Almost worth the $700 I spent, just to hear that. LOL
Moral of the story is, if a cop asks you if you want to press charges on something, YOU SAY YES.. And then let the wheel of justice sort it out. I think if you had pressed charges against her she would have pressed charges against you and then both parties would drop their cases...
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