View Full Version : No Girls Allowed.... not anymore
clodhopper
10-11-2017, 14:40
It had to happen eventually I guess. Girls in the Boy Scouts.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/boy-scouts-will-admit-girls-allow-them-earn-eagle-scout-n809836
Sure, the scouts are co-ed in other countries. But we have Girl Scouts here. I have been a leader in scouts and appreciate the opportunity for boys to be boys and do boy things without the added social pressures of girls. Not anymore. Now leaders have to not only keep scouts from knifing themselves and burning down the woods, but also make sure they kids don't pair off and head out on a "hike". Sheesh.
It's not about letting anyone in/equality/etc., but destroying something with patrimony, history, and tradition.
If they wanted to simply go hiking or earn merit badges for something other than selling cookies, the Girl Scouts could totally do that. Or a new organization would be formed. Or one of the myriad co-ed organizations would be joined, who allow/do/have such things as boy scouts but co-ed.
No, this is not about any of that. It's about destroying a vestige of pre-Modernist Utopianism
ETA: Boy participation will drop and this will, hopefully, either destroy "B"SA (BS, eh!?) or make them realize it was an awful idea and repeal it; BSA already jumped the shark on faggots as adult leaders anyway
Zundfolge
10-11-2017, 14:57
I love how the Girl Scouts of America is bitching now that this is all being done as a money grab at their expense.
Absolutely disgusting, I heard the vote was unanimous.
It's not about letting anyone in/equality/etc., but destroying something with patrimony, history, and tradition.
BSA already jumped the shark on faggots as adult leaders anyway
Correct on both counts.
No surprise here.
I've seen male exchange student going into all women's universities in foreign country. That male student is from US.
Next up: Professional athletes keeling down during national anthem for gender equality in professional sports. [facepalm]
"Female professional baseball/hockey/football/soccer career matters!"
BushMasterBoy
10-11-2017, 16:31
Menstrual Awareness merit badge? I can't wait to see the design! Bloody ridiculous...
clodhopper
10-11-2017, 17:19
If they wanted to simply go hiking or earn merit badges for something other than selling cookies, the Girl Scouts could totally do that. Or a new organization would be formed. Or one of the myriad co-ed organizations would be joined, who allow/do/have such things as boy scouts but co-ed.
Sorry, that is just too much logic for a web based discussion. What are you thinking?
In seriousness, girl scouts is a hot mess. It will take a serious effort to recraft that into something approaching the BSA, despite how much the BSA has been watered down over the last decade or two. That means vision, drive and a lot of work. Who wants to do that? It is much easier to find a successful organization, claim discrimination, demand entrance and be granted access using the force of law and a governmental agency all the while lowering the bar because, well, those expectations for Eagle are mysoginistic and unreasonable.
The gay thing was over a year ago. Many troops in my area lost their charter organization because of it. LDS didn't jump then, but they were clearly getting uncomfortable. It was the more recent announcement to allow transgenders into BSA that seems to have pushed LDS over the edge and restructure their youth program. LDS is a big part of BSA funding. Big. If adding girls causes the LDS church to dump scouts completely, that will be a big financial hit for BSA National.
I can see the pros and cons. I think if the Girl Scouts wasn't such a ridiculous farce to begin with, it wouldn't be an issue. Believe me, there are girls that want to learn what the Boy Scouts teach- because the Girl Scouts is all about reinforcing stereotypes and about manipulation, without the benefit of learning self-reliance.
It's not about letting anyone in/equality/etc., but destroying something with patrimony, history, and tradition.
[snip]
Boom.
The girls who cried for equality will grow up and ask where are the real men are. Probably won't realize what happened.
My boys weren't joining the Scouts anyway. Too much time spent selling overpriced popcorn and not enough time snapping in.
Scanker19
10-11-2017, 19:06
Menstrual Awareness merit badge? I can't wait to see the design! Bloody ridiculous...
Hey, jokes about the menstrual cycle are not funny and won’t be tolerated on this forum. Period.
hollohas
10-11-2017, 19:22
...the opportunity for boys to be boys and do boy things without the added social pressures of girls. Not anymore.
^This. It's healthy for boys to be boys and do boy things together. Why the frick do we have to keep mixing everything and everyone up? We can't give them ONE hour a week to not worry about girls? Girls and boys get co-ed stuff all day.
All this so-called "equality" nonsense is getting exhausting. Every minute of everyday now has to be 100% ''inclusive".
In seriousness, girl scouts is a hot mess. It will take a serious effort to recraft that into something approaching the BSA, despite how much the BSA has been watered down over the last decade or two. That means vision, drive and a lot of work. Who wants to do that? It is much easier to find a successful organization, claim discrimination, demand entrance and be granted access using the force of law and a governmental agency all the while lowering the bar because, well, those expectations for Eagle are mysoginistic and unreasonable.
Yeah, I asked my SIL that was a GS troop leader about it and she totally understands it. The GS is a total trainwreck led by a bunch of feminazis. Most of the moms that are troop leaders don't want to get outside and do the camping, etc., so they just sit around and do crafts all the time. They wanted to go on an Explorers trip to the NW, and were not allowed to travel on a small plane to do it (GSA forbid the use of a small aircraft). They had to go as a BS troop.
Personally, I think they should allow the guys to be in all male troops and allow boys and girls a choice if they want to be in a co-ed troop.
TEAMRICO
10-11-2017, 20:48
I will be honest, as a Scout Master, when the first female attempts to join our Troop I'm out.
I believe more will follow and Troops will collapse. When the money starts going away the BSA will regret it.
It is hard enough to raise young boys to be young men, add girls and you have to cater to them. Camp Outs? Nope. Not even going to put myself in that situation.
That's all I gotta say about that.
Aloha_Shooter
10-11-2017, 20:50
This at least was more defensible than the previous change to membership policy allowing in active homosexual adults as unit leaders. I've seen plenty of girls that would have made excellent Boy Scouts. On the other hand, there are situations when I thnik it's appropriate for single-gender activities -- not the least of which is when I'm giving safety instructions. I saw enough boys going for night hikes down to the nearby Girl Scout camp when I was a Scout myself that I know we're not not going to stop nature.
I once thought I would die in a Scout uniform. No more.
This at least was more defensible than the previous change to membership policy allowing in active homosexual adults as unit leaders. I've seen plenty of girls that would have made excellent Boy Scouts. On the other hand, there are situations when I thnik it's appropriate for single-gender activities -- not the least of which is when I'm giving safety instructions. I saw enough boys going for night hikes down to the nearby Girl Scout camp when I was a Scout myself that I know we're not not going to stop nature.
I once thought I would die in a Scout uniform. No more.
No girl can make a good or even bad Boy Scout, because they aren't a boy. As Ben Shapiro said to an SJW person who challenged him on where it says a girl cannot be in Boy Scouts, he replied, "It's in the name, BOY Scouts."
When girls showed up at a Rally in 1909 (https://www.wagggs.org/en/about-us/our-history/), Lord Baden-Powell decided there should be a separate movement for girls. If Girl Scouts has degenerated and girls want to do something more outdoorsy, then they need to form such an organization or engage with co-ed groups who are more in line with Boy Scouts.
Want to shoot? Fine, go to Appleseed.
Want to camp? Tell your father to quit being such a pussy and get his ass in the woods
Want to engage in community betterment, then friggin do it.
Disemboweling one of the last vestiges of boys and young men to engage in a male only activity is not the way to do it, just like some little nancy deciding he wants to sell cookies shouldn't be allowed to join the Girl Scouts.
StagLefty
10-12-2017, 07:11
This has been in the works for awhile. The Venture section has been coed since it started about 8 years ago,and thats a group program for teens.
I stopped as a leader a few years ago after 20 plus years and I can't believe what has happened to the BSA since then. Unfortunately it's more about money than anything else. Recruitment has dropped significantly in the last decade.
From the news story I just saw, there will still be boys-only activities. They're starting with the Cub Scouts age, so hopefully the poisonous little girls wont be able to subvert the boys that easily. In 2019, older girls will be able to join in some of the co-ed activities of the Boy Scouts, which will be marked by the complete downfall of civilization. /sarcasm
Honestly, not EVERY person with XX chromosomes comes with a feminist agenda. Some of these kids are just looking to learn something that the Boy Scouts offer. You really expect that the girls participating in Girl Scouts can undo the clusterf*ck that has grown for years? Really? And some of you are quitting being scout masters because 11-year-old girls may join a troop to learn some of the virtues of scouts? I didn't realize those were boys-only virtues. The one opportunity that may be in that girl's life to learn what the (Boy) Scouts have been training generations of boys, teachng them to be good citizens and conscientous adults may be at hand. This may be the opportunity to show girls that there is a different way of viewing the world, instead of through the eyes of the skewed political agenda of the Girl Scounts.
Reading through this thread is pretty dismaying.
It's not about letting anyone in/equality/etc., but destroying something with patrimony, history, and tradition.
Yes, but the recent move by the LDS to disengage from the BoyScouts puts the program in danger of extinction. The Mormons have always been a major contributor in manpower and boypower. Bringing girls in is the last chance to save the organization and money is a big part of it.
In seriousness, girl scouts is a hot mess. It will take a serious effort to recraft that into something approaching the BSA, despite how much the BSA has been watered down over the last decade or two. That means vision, drive and a lot of work. Who wants to do that? It is much easier to find a successful organization, claim discrimination, demand entrance and be granted access using the force of law and a governmental agency all the while lowering the bar because, well, those expectations for Eagle are mysoginistic and unreasonable.
The gay thing was over a year ago. Many troops in my area lost their charter organization because of it. LDS didn't jump then, but they were clearly getting uncomfortable. It was the more recent announcement to allow transgenders into BSA that seems to have pushed LDS over the edge and restructure their youth program. LDS is a big part of BSA funding. Big. If adding girls causes the LDS church to dump scouts completely, that will be a big financial hit for BSA National.
Right on all points.
When I was a Boy Scout my mother was a Girl Scout troop leader and because our family had a tradition of camping, she organized camping and hiking trips for the girls every month. I just LOVED going on those camping trips. She (and I) taught about fishing, plants and flowers, wildlife, first aid, outdoor skills.
My wife was in Girl Scouts but her experience was entirely different. She hated it because her leaders never went camping but basically taught home-ec at every gathering. It was all about cooking, cleaning, sewing, crafts, etc.
At the time I went through the program, 4 out of 5 American boys were in Scouting at some point in their lives. Now, Scouting is a small fraction of the youth in our country. No longer are we educating leaders and our nation is far poorer for it.
Hummer
Eagle Scout 1968
From the news story I just saw, there will still be boys-only activities. They're starting with the Cub Scouts age, so hopefully the poisonous little girls wont be able to subvert the buys that easily. In 2019, older girls will be able to join in some of the co-ed activities of the Boy Scouts, which will be marked by the complete downfall of civilization. /sarcasm
Honestly, not EVERY person with XX chromosomes comes with a feminist agenda. Some of these kids are just looking to learn something that the Boy Scouts offer. You really expect that the girls participating in Girl Scouts can undo the clusterf*ck that has grown for years? Really? And some of you are quitting being scout masters because 11-year-old girls may join a troop to learn some of the virtues of scouts? I didn't realize those were boys-only virtues. The one opportunity that may be in that girl's life to learn what the (Boy) Scouts have been training generations of boys, teachng them to be good citizens and conscientous adults may be at hand. This may be the opportunity to show girls that there is a different way of viewing the world, instead of through the eyes of the skewed political agenda of the Girl Scounts.
Reading through this thread is pretty dismaying.
A straw-man wrapped in a flaky puff pastry of (il)logic with feelings filling. Sounds too caloric for my taste, sweeter than Stevia and without the fat of truth to assist in a long term satiation of cultural appetite.
Do you not see that the proponents of this do not give a shit about improving girls' ability to engage in less fluffy activities? No one here, as far as I can tell, has a problem with a girl learning to shoot, camp, hike, etc.
The problem is that instead of fixing their outlet for such things, or engaging in perfectly acceptable alternatives, they wish to invade into the space for boys-only to do such things. Remind you of anything? California license plates and an uptick of (D) registrants in CO, perhaps -- fleeing the reality of liberal economics and civil law, only to foist them upon their new state?
Muslims fleeing the reality of Islam's effect on the culture, only to demand Islamic culture? Leaving Shitcago to escape the violence, only to demand the same factors which led to that violence? Etc.?
So they screwed up Girl Scouts by effeminacy and reducing the power of feminine strength to a cookie sales joke (effeminacy is the vice contrary to the virtue of fortitude; has nothing to do with the feminine per se), instead of building up girls in feminine virtue. They do this by encroaching upon the BSA, a wretched organization at this point, but still has the facade of pre-Modernist Utopianism/pre-Cultural Marxism, traditional social norms -- as such, it must be destroyed.
Again, this is NOT. NOT. N-O-T: about letting girls do anything. This is about the destruction of something which at least points to the idea of a good, out of pure hatred for the good of a line in the sand and what lays beyond it.
Were it not, they would self-lead and reform the Girl Scouts or start/join an organization which does those things. But they're social leeches, not leaders or potential leaders. So all they can do is suck out the life of virtue and leave their host a rotting corpse.
DireWolf
10-12-2017, 08:38
From the news story I just saw, there will still be boys-only activities. They're starting with the Cub Scouts age, so hopefully the poisonous little girls wont be able to subvert the buys that easily. In 2019, older girls will be able to join in some of the co-ed activities of the Boy Scouts, which will be marked by the complete downfall of civilization. /sarcasm
Honestly, not EVERY person with XX chromosomes comes with a feminist agenda. Some of these kids are just looking to learn something that the Boy Scouts offer. You really expect that the girls participating in Girl Scouts can undo the clusterf*ck that has grown for years? Really? And some of you are quitting being scout masters because 11-year-old girls may join a troop to learn some of the virtues of scouts? I didn't realize those were boys-only virtues. The one opportunity that may be in that girl's life to learn what the (Boy) Scouts have been training generations of boys, teachng them to be good citizens and conscientous adults may be at hand. This may be the opportunity to show girls that there is a different way of viewing the world, instead of through the eyes of the skewed political agenda of the Girl Scounts.
Reading through this thread is pretty dismaying.
I think you make some really solid points, but along with some other great points made in-thread, feel that:
1. This situation is stuck in a bit of limbo where there's no optimal solution currently.
2. Both boys and girls would greatly benefit from the development of core life skills & principles which have been discussed, but also do need that gender-specific engagement & focus.
3. Both BSA and GSA have become horribly corrupt and misguided.
4. All things considered, the idea of some level of integration bothers me far less than allowing deviants (and very likely latent if not fully cognizant pedophiles) to lead scouting activities - this is the number one reason I have not even considered any recent involvement in the BSA, even if directly involved as a scout leader (would hate to be involved in or associated with any unfortunate accidents in the wilderness involving said deviants, and the woods can be a dangerous place...)
5. Money and politics is a huge problem in both orgs, and all current issues trace from here..
I think a new scouting org, say PSA (Patriotic Scouts of America) for example, could potentially be created to get back to what scouting was about when I was a kid, but avaliable to boys & girls alike...Leave the BSA and GSA to rot and desintigrate under the weight of the feminazis, trannys, commies, and money-grubbing sons of bitches currently infesting both.
Take all the good parts/traditions/etc. to the new org, including gender-specific groupings/activities (but with commonality across both), and place protections right in the bylaws to prevent cooption by activists and deviants (largely redundant, I know), structuring those rules themselves to be defensible against any legal attacks which we know will likely begin immediately upon inception.
A straw-man wrapped in a flaky puff pastry of (il)logic with feelings filling. Sounds too caloric for my taste, sweeter than Stevia and without the fat of truth to assist in a long term satiation of cultural appetite.
Do you not see that the proponents of this do not give a shit about improving girls' ability to engage in less fluffy activities? No one here, as far as I can tell, has a problem with a girl learning to shoot, camp, hike, etc.
The problem is that instead of fixing their outlet for such things, or engaging in perfectly acceptable alternatives, they wish to invade into the space for boys-only to do such things. Remind you of anything? California license plates and an uptick of (D) registrants in CO, perhaps -- fleeing the reality of liberal economics and civil law, only to foist them upon their new state?
Muslims fleeing the reality of Islam's effect on the culture, only to demand Islamic culture? Leaving Shitcago to escape the violence, only to demand the same factors which led to that violence? Etc.?
So they screwed up Girl Scouts by effeminacy and reducing the power of feminine strength to a cookie sales joke (effeminacy is the vice contrary to the virtue of fortitude; has nothing to do with the feminine per se), instead of building up girls in feminine virtue. They do this by encroaching upon the BSA, a wretched organization at this point, but still has the facade of pre-Modernist Utopianism/pre-Cultural Marxism, traditional social norms -- as such, it must be destroyed.
Again, this is NOT. NOT. N-O-T: about letting girls do anything. This is about the destruction of something which at least points to the idea of a good, out of pure hatred for the good of a line in the sand and what lays beyond it.
Were it not, they would self-lead and reform the Girl Scouts or start/join an organization which does those things. But they're social leeches, not leaders or potential leaders. So all they can do is suck out the life of virtue and leave their host a rotting corpse.
I'm sorry, are you still in denial about this? It's happened. It's decided. Nothing can be done about it now. The reasoning behind it may have been for open subversion and stealing the Last Bastion of Boyhood, because they essentially ruined what was supposed to be the girl's version of the Scouts. And yes, I'm aware of the fact that they do not give a shit about girls learning less fluffy activities; but I am seeing that instead of people seeing this as an opportunity to teach girls the real virtues, instead of the bullshit that gets pumped into their heads in the Girl Scouts.
What I am saying is this: Scoutmasters have a real opportunity here. Not only can they make a difference with boys, but they could actually begin helping to heal the rifts set in place by the feminazis.
I think you make some really solid points, but along with some other great points made in-thread, feel that:
1. This situation is stuck in a bit of limbo where there's no optimal solution currently.
2. Both boys and girls would greatly benefit from the development of core life skills & principles which have been discussed, but also do need that gender-specific engagement & focus.
3. Both BSA and GSA have become horribly corrupt and misguided.
4. All things considered, the idea of some level of integration bothers me far less than allowing deviants (and very likely latent if not fully cognizant pedophiles) to lead scouting activities - this is the number one reason I have not even considered any recent involvement in the BSA, even if directly involved as a scout leader (would hate to be involved in or associated with any unfortunate accidents in the wilderness involving said deviants, and the woods can be a dangerous place...)
5. Money and politics is a huge problem in both orgs, and all current issues trace from here..
I think a new scouting org, say PSA (Patriotic Scouts of America) for example, could potentially be created to get back to what scouting was about when I was a kid, but avaliable to bous and girls alike...Leave the BSA and GSA to rot and desintigrate under the weight of the feminazis, trannys, commies, and money-grubbing sons of bitches currently infesting both.
Take all the good parts/traditions/etc. to the new org, including gender-specific groupings/activities (but with commonality across both), and place protections right in the bylaws to prevent cooption by activists and deviants (largely redundant, I know), structuring those rules themselves to be defensible against any legal attacks which we know will likely begin immediately upon inception.
YES. A thousand times YES.
Is it really fair that they are now moving girls into the Boy Scouts? Hell no. Bt since they've already decided to do it, along with all the other decisions they made without consuting anyone else, it's done. Now is the time to try and make something of it.
Frankly, it's disgusting how the Girl Scouts as an organization is essentially name-calling and thumbing heir nose at the Boy Scouts, all while their own house is burning down around their ears.
But in the meantime, letting the kids deal with the cluster is pretty inexcusable. A lot of good can come of a Scoutng organization of some sort; there will need to be boys-only and girls-only sections, but I firmly believe lemonade can be made from these lemons.
A straw-man wrapped in a flaky puff pastry of (il)logic with feelings filling. Sounds too caloric for my taste, sweeter than Stevia and without the fat of truth to assist in a long term satiation of cultural appetite.
Do you not see that the proponents of this do not give a shit about improving girls' ability to engage in less fluffy activities? No one here, as far as I can tell, has a problem with a girl learning to shoot, camp, hike, etc.
The problem is that instead of fixing their outlet for such things, or engaging in perfectly acceptable alternatives, they wish to invade into the space for boys-only to do such things. Remind you of anything? California license plates and an uptick of (D) registrants in CO, perhaps -- fleeing the reality of liberal economics and civil law, only to foist them upon their new state?
Muslims fleeing the reality of Islam's effect on the culture, only to demand Islamic culture? Leaving Shitcago to escape the violence, only to demand the same factors which led to that violence? Etc.?
So they screwed up Girl Scouts by effeminacy and reducing the power of feminine strength to a cookie sales joke (effeminacy is the vice contrary to the virtue of fortitude; has nothing to do with the feminine per se), instead of building up girls in feminine virtue. They do this by encroaching upon the BSA, a wretched organization at this point, but still has the facade of pre-Modernist Utopianism/pre-Cultural Marxism, traditional social norms -- as such, it must be destroyed.
Again, this is NOT. NOT. N-O-T: about letting girls do anything. This is about the destruction of something which at least points to the idea of a good, out of pure hatred for the good of a line in the sand and what lays beyond it.
Were it not, they would self-lead and reform the Girl Scouts or start/join an organization which does those things. But they're social leeches, not leaders or potential leaders. So all they can do is suck out the life of virtue and leave their host a rotting corpse.
DAMMIT, you made me mad. Watch me quote this twice.
But you are right.
I think we're actually saying the same thing, when it's stripped down. The problem is that the decision to do this was made without consulting anyone in the ranks, and canvassing for ideas for fixes- such as changing the directon of the Girl Scouts. It's about money now. And because of that, all the Scouts are going to suffer a bit with the growing pains.
The only thing to do at this point is to divest from the BSA, if one is invested.
Saying, "When the first girl joins, I'm out" is like saying, "The US Army has decided to allow communists as officers. When the first CPT comes to my company as commander and is a communist, I'm out." The organization has already made that decision.
These instances are essentially a microcosm of the coming finale.
The reason there is no ability to just let things be, is the culture war is ramping up to a point where one must take a side. This is in preparation for the actual battles which are forthcoming, be they in this generation or in 3. We have existed in an ideological set of struggles which have come to naught for a resolution. The left demands a real fight. They will perpetuate and escalate until finally, they instigate.
[snip]
These instances are essentially a microcosm of the coming finale.
The reason there is no ability to just let things be, is the culture war is ramping up to a point where one must take a side. This is in preparation for the actual battles which are forthcoming, be they in this generation or in 3. We have existed in an ideological set of struggles which have come to naught for a resolution. The left demands a real fight. They will perpetuate and escalate until finally, they instigate.
^ Well put.
They aren't stupid either. They are attacking where they can make the most progress.
This "decision" targets boys who want to get outdoors and learn real skills. It creates a vacuum for such boys where, I said on page #1, they don't learn how to be men. What fills the vacuum? Media, video games, drugs. What happens when the only inputs are media, Hollywood, and school? Mom and dad are either divorced or too busy chasing the Jones.
Oh, there's still sports though, right? [LOL]
Aloha_Shooter
10-12-2017, 10:46
From the news story I just saw, there will still be boys-only activities. They're starting with the Cub Scouts age, so hopefully the poisonous little girls wont be able to subvert the boys that easily. In 2019, older girls will be able to join in some of the co-ed activities of the Boy Scouts, which will be marked by the complete downfall of civilization. /sarcasm
Honestly, not EVERY person with XX chromosomes comes with a feminist agenda. Some of these kids are just looking to learn something that the Boy Scouts offer. You really expect that the girls participating in Girl Scouts can undo the clusterf*ck that has grown for years? Really? And some of you are quitting being scout masters because 11-year-old girls may join a troop to learn some of the virtues of scouts? I didn't realize those were boys-only virtues. The one opportunity that may be in that girl's life to learn what the (Boy) Scouts have been training generations of boys, teachng them to be good citizens and conscientous adults may be at hand. This may be the opportunity to show girls that there is a different way of viewing the world, instead of through the eyes of the skewed political agenda of the Girl Scounts.
Reading through this thread is pretty dismaying.
It's not that we think they're coming in with a feminist agenda. The sad fact is that teenage boys are easily distracted and while I understand the value of the skills I used to teach and the interest some girls had in them, my purpose as an adult leader was to turn boys into men. I had no problem with some co-ed activities or classes but for me the key word in "Boy Scouts of America" was "Boy". I have seen plenty of girls that would have made good Boy Scouts if they'd had the Y chromosome and I know about a lot of the deficiencies (and backroom politics) in the GSA program but all of that was a sideline to my purpose in helping boys grow and mature into men.
National has turned into a dictatorship. When they first proposed changing membership rules to allow homosexual boys into Scouting, they got a firestorm of councils and units responding. Since then, they have been dictating rule changes by fiat rather than inviting comment or giving protestors any time to mobilize. I'm not surprised this change from a coalition-type of environment to a more totalitarian regime started with the Presidency of one Robert Gates and I'm both sad and relieved to no longer be a part of Scouting.
I'm happy to help Girl Scout units or other organizations teach girls the same skills I taught in Boy Scouts but I still maintain there was a place and room for gender-segregated activities.
Zundfolge
10-12-2017, 11:27
It's not that we think they're coming in with a feminist agenda. The sad fact is that teenage boys are easily distracted and while I understand the value of the skills I used to teach and the interest some girls had in them, my purpose as an adult leader was to turn boys into men.
I disagree, this is all about 3rd wave feminism. Masculinity is toxic. Boys are just malfunctioning girls.
When I was young, I wanted to join the Cub Scouts but my mom thought even then (mid 70s) they were too secular so I got signed up for Boys Brigade. I would recommend them over the Scouts but they became SJW/Feminist converged long ago and are now the "Boys and Girls Brigade"* I guess there's a new organization called Trail Life USA formed by former Boy Scouts to combat the De-Christianization and de-masculination of the Boy Scouts.
* ETA Apparently I'm wrong, Boys & Girl's Brigade is not connected to the "Boy's Brigade" I was a member of as a child, they're now called "Christian Service Brigade" http://csbministries.org/
StagLefty
10-12-2017, 11:39
.
National has turned into a dictatorship. When they first proposed changing membership rules to allow homosexual boys into Scouting, they got a firestorm of councils and units responding. Since then, they have been dictating rule changes by fiat rather than inviting comment or giving protestors any time to mobilize. I'm not surprised this change from a coalition-type of environment to a more totalitarian regime started with the Presidency of one Robert Gates and I'm both sad and relieved to no longer be a part of Scouting.
I'm happy to help Girl Scout units or other organizations teach girls the same skills I taught in Boy Scouts but I still maintain there was a place and room for gender-segregated activities.
The Councils seem to forget that the leadership in Scouts is probably upwards of more than 80% volunteers and this is where they will fall apart by their own inept decisions. Some of my best shooters were girls in the old Explorer posts and the newer Venturing teams so I'm not opposed to teaching them. What I'm opposed to is this new agenda of everything must be open to all no matter what the original organization was formed to do.
BushMasterBoy
10-12-2017, 12:23
This thread is funnier than a pregnant Boy Scout. And it is going to happen because of this decision. Would be a big legal liability in my opinion. Insurance cancelled...
clodhopper
10-12-2017, 14:02
This thread is funnier than a pregnant Boy Scout. And it is going to happen because of this decision. Would be a big legal liability in my opinion. Insurance cancelled...
National seems focused on limiting the liability of the program, which to a degree makes sense as they are a huge target in an overly litigious society. An email was sent out yesterday from the BSA explaining that if a pack/troop elects to remain all boys, they can do that and consider starting an all girls pack/troop. Integrated organizations would happen if the parents want that, but dens/patrols will be all one gender. Looking at that from the point of view of an active leader.... wholly carp that is going to get complicated. Besides, it is hard enough to operate one troop with all the regulatory requirements we have to achieve. Just start a whole nother troop for girls? The work just doubled? nope. I suspect that allowed split is to keep the LDS from leaving.
I don't get why parents of girls want to voluntarily place their daughter in with a bunch of little horn dogs amidst a somewhat low oversight situation, in the woods.... Besides, why wouldn't girls find value in an opportunity to participate in a program that does NOT have boys? There is good reason to eliminate all the social pressure of the other gender to help young adults focus on learning rather than looking cool? If there was really that strong of a need for intensive outdoor training for girls, there would be more incidence of GSA leaders opting to just follow the BSA program instead of the GSA program. There are a lot of outdoorsy people in my area, lots of parents that take kids hiking, camping and hunting, and even so I know of only one girls program where the female leaders were using a modified BSA system. There is no downside to youth learning teamwork, leadership and outdoor skills, ever, but more and more I see parents and society casting independent skills aside and ascribing greater importance to things that just don't matter much.
I think my time in scouting is coming to an end. My older son is an Eagle and my younger is working on his Life badge. Time to hurry up and finish. Disappointing.
StagLefty
10-12-2017, 14:04
This thread is funnier than a pregnant Boy Scout. And it is going to happen because of this decision. Would be a big legal liability in my opinion. Insurance cancelled...
Not to mention the pressure on "volunteer leaders" who will have to provide leaders from both genders now !!!
clodhopper
10-12-2017, 15:09
Not to mention the pressure on "volunteer leaders" who will have to provide leaders from both genders now !!!
I suspect many will quit. Too many non-participating parents ("I'm just too busy to do my part...") who are too quick to criticize and harass those leaders already. I am not interested in walking the tightrope that just got thinner.
Before this was enacted I remember seeing Ben Shapiro shut down some SJW on this issue:
Ben Shapiro: "To be in the boy scouts you have to be a biological boy."
SJW: "Where does it say that?"
Ben: "In the name BOY scouts."
Guess not anymore.
Welcome to America, where boys can be girls, girls can be boys, and anyone who wants to can identify as an AH-64 Apache Attack Helicopter. Personally, I'd prefer to identify as an AH-64D Longbow Apache Helicopter, way better equipment. [Coffee]
ChadAmberg
10-12-2017, 15:24
I like this idea.
It's changing the future. For every girl that goes to the Boy Scouts instead of the Girl Scouts, you're saving her from becoming a radical, democrat supporting, third wave feminist. Instead, you're building someone who will be self reliant, skilled, and a million other good things.
I've talked to so many moms who reluctantly put their daughters in the GS and hated it, there were just no other options.
I like this idea.
It's changing the future. For every girl that goes to the Boy Scouts instead of the Girl Scouts, you're saving her from becoming a radical, democrat supporting, third wave feminist. Instead, you're building someone who will be self reliant, skilled, and a million other good things.
I've talked to so many moms who reluctantly put their daughters in the GS and hated it, there were just no other options.
I've heard that too... Apparently the GS are still behind the times and don't really teach girls anything except how to peddle cookies and do Susie Homemaker activities. My only issue with the whole girls in boy scouts thing is a problem that arises when you mix young boys and girls, going through puberty, and throw in camping trips and other activities that may or may not have adequate adult supervision. I know parents who wouldn't want their daughters out in the woods for a week with a bunch of boys with raging hormones...
ChadAmberg
10-12-2017, 15:45
I've heard that too... Apparently the GS are still behind the times and don't really teach girls anything except how to peddle cookies and do Susie Homemaker activities. My only issue with the whole girls in boy scouts thing is a problem that arises when you mix young boys and girls, going through puberty, and throw in camping trips and other activities that may or may not have adequate adult supervision. I know parents who wouldn't want their daughters out in the woods for a week with a bunch of boys with raging hormones...
From what I understand there will be boy troops and girl troops. So there will be separation.
If anything I can see this change increasing the membership levels of the Boy Scouts and probably dropping the GS to almost nothing.
I like this idea.
It's changing the future. For every girl that goes to the Boy Scouts instead of the Girl Scouts, you're saving her from becoming a radical, democrat supporting, third wave feminist. Instead, you're building someone who will be self reliant, skilled, and a million other good things.
I've talked to so many moms who reluctantly put their daughters in the GS and hated it, there were just no other options.
Girl Scouts sucked on every level. I joined the Girl Scouts when I was about eleven, and was really excited because I thought we'd be doing all of the cool stuff that the Boy Scouts did. The very first meeting proved me wrong- the Scout Leader was clearly bored, and set about showing us how to sew a purse out of a pair of jeans. Her brat of a daughter thought she was the head of the group, tried to bully me and shoved me into the wall of her mom's basement. Her mom couldn't give a crap. I elbowed the brat in the chops and thus nearly ended my GS career before it even began!
I spent a miserable four weeks in that Troop before finally admitting that we weren't going to be learning anything that didn't suck completely. I wasn't interested in selling damn cookies or playing girl games or keeping my uniform neat and pressed. All the Troop was focused on was trying to out-do the other Troops in the area, with sewing or dancing or the "beauty walk" (!) modeling the new uniforms.
My little brother was a WEBLO and then a Cub Scout. Lucky kid!
And no, my Dad couldn't take us camping. He worked 12+ hours a day at the railroad. I had more scouting experience in School Patrol Camp. Crazy.
What gets me is that there have been co-ed groups within the BSA for decades. This isn't totally unheard of and I don't expect it to be the death of everything that is scouting.
My wife was in the Douglas County Sheriff Dept. Explorers back in the '80s; http://www.dcsheriff.net/sheriffs-office/volunteering/explorer-post-10-4/
The Douglas County Sheriff’s Youth Explorer Post #10-4 is an all-volunteer auxiliary of Boy Scouts of America (http://www.scouting.org/). The program allows young adults, 14 to 20, who are interested in exploring law enforcement jobs to interact and train with deputies.Explorers (http://www.learningforlife.org/) also get the opportunity to:
Learn about jobs in patrol, the jail and other areas of the office
Help other law enforcement agencies
Participate in regional and tactical competitions
Volunteer throughout the community
Meet other explorers and law enforcement officials around the country
Basic Requirements to be an Explorer:
You must be at least 14 and have completed the 8th grade
You must not yet be 18 years old
Good physical and mental condition
Minimum 2.0 grade point average
Have approval from a parent or guardian
You must attend weekly meetings on Tuesday nights at 6 p.m.
Must complete 8 hours of community service every month
You must be able to speak and write English
You must be honest, mature, be self-disciplined and a go-getter
Have a desire to learn
Sweet. Should be a great idea. Right up to the point where several of the girls come home from camp pregnant.
What gets me is that there have been co-ed groups within the BSA for decades. This isn't totally unheard of and I don't expect it to be the death of everything that is scouting.
My wife was in the Douglas County Sheriff Dept. Explorers back in the '80s; http://www.dcsheriff.net/sheriffs-office/volunteering/explorer-post-10-4/
This sounds like a terrific program. I know there are a number of scouting and scouting-like programs available now. Hopefully they'll see the ridiculous sniping on social media and decide to bring their kids into other available types. I've heard some churches have scout programs, too- which is great.
This sounds like a terrific program. I know there are a number of scouting and scouting-like programs available now. Hopefully they'll see the ridiculous sniping on social media and decide to bring their kids into other available types. I've heard some churches have scout programs, too- which is great.
Our Lady of Mount Carmel in Littleton has the Federation of North-American Explorers (FNE).
It's "co-ed" in the sense that both boys and girls can join, but they are separate in their structure.
From their FAQ:
Is the FNE for boys and girls?
Units are all male or all female, with the occasional exceptions made for Otters depending on local group constraints. One of the requirements of our educational and formational program is that “the men teach boys to be men, and the boys remind the men how to be boys.” Likewise for the girls and women. In practice, that means that the uniformed leaders of the boys’ programs at meetings and overnight activities are all male, and for the girls, all female.
FNE like its parent organization, the UIGSE-FSE, considers a differentiated education for boys and girls within equivalent units an essential aspect of its teaching. A parallel and mutual enrichment of both sexes, male and female, enables a full development of the aptitudes and propensities given to each sex by God’s providential plan. FNE therefore gathers boys and girls in two sections, male and female, perfectly separated in their hierarchy and in their program structure.
http://olmcexplorers.org/faq/
They do hiking, camping, archery, etc.
While a Catholic organization, non-Catholic Christians can participate:
Can non-Catholics participate?
Christian youth who, together with their parents, are supportive of the Catholic nature of the program delivered by FNE, and accept that that they will be expected to participate in these Catholic activities, can join our movement. This program includes Catholic elements such as praying the Rosary, the veneration of saints, and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Because our program acknowledges Jesus Christ as our Savior and that we are children of the Holy Trinity, youth and families who profess non-Christian beliefs cannot be admitted as members out of respect for their beliefs and religious practices.
Here's the main page:
http://olmcexplorers.org/
DenverGP
10-12-2017, 22:00
Another good alternative to scouting in many areas is Civil Air Patrol. Was a member during junior high and highschool. My squadron focused on search and rescue, as well as aerospace education.
Like many scout organizations, the program varies from squadron to squadron, with some squadrons more focused on things like military drill teams, etc. But all are built around learning military leadership, etc. My 6 years of CAP was enough to get me 2 stripes right out of air force basic training.
The search and rescue aspect of CAP was excellent. While in highschool we went on several actual SAR missions in Pennsylvania, searching for missing / downed private planes, and for missing hikers. Also provided a communications net during several natural disasters.
One of our senior members was a test pilot for Boeing Vertol. In addition to flying one of the CAP planes for search missions, and taking cadets up for flights in the squadron's cessna, he took us flying on a Chinook, and we got to fly the boeing flight simulator that they used to prototype the controls for the Osprey (at the time just called the tilt-rotor).
Definitely was a positive influence in my life.
Aloha_Shooter
10-13-2017, 11:59
The Councils seem to forget that the leadership in Scouts is probably upwards of more than 80% volunteers and this is where they will fall apart by their own inept decisions. Some of my best shooters were girls in the old Explorer posts and the newer Venturing teams so I'm not opposed to teaching them. What I'm opposed to is this new agenda of everything must be open to all no matter what the original organization was formed to do.
Councils haven't forgotten, National has. National is all about "professional" Scouters. I saw a lot of program changes coming out of Irving in my last few years in Scouting that seemed utterly disconnected from the realities of unit-level operations. I completely agree about teaching shooting to girls as well as boys and I agree that I'm against the new agenda.
National seems focused on limiting the liability of the program, which to a degree makes sense as they are a huge target in an overly litigious society.
IMO, National is focused on the money and looking cool to their liberal friends on either coast. There were no liability issues with staying single-gender or excluding practicing adult homosexuals. If anything National invited future liability lawsuits by adopting Robert Gates' membership policy changes.
I don't get why parents of girls want to voluntarily place their daughter in with a bunch of little horn dogs amidst a somewhat low oversight situation, in the woods.... Besides, why wouldn't girls find value in an opportunity to participate in a program that does NOT have boys?
These changes come from the same people who claim boys overwhelm and dominate girls in the classroom. I don't think the goal is so much finding value for girls as it is stomping down on boys.
I think my time in scouting is coming to an end. My older son is an Eagle and my younger is working on his Life badge. Time to hurry up and finish. Disappointing.
I quite understand. I reluctantly said good-bye to Scouting after over 25 years of adult participation (and more as a youth). I have told the Council and units that I'm still willing to help them with activities but not in anything that involves fundraising or registering as a Scouter with national.
Not to mention the pressure on "volunteer leaders" who will have to provide leaders from both genders now !!!
We already had to do that with camporees when you included Venture Crews. You had to have leadership from both genders, had to segregate tenting and latrine arrangements between sexes as well as youth/adults. Planning could get pretty complex.
I like this idea.
It's changing the future. For every girl that goes to the Boy Scouts instead of the Girl Scouts, you're saving her from becoming a radical, democrat supporting, third wave feminist. Instead, you're building someone who will be self reliant, skilled, and a million other good things.
I've talked to so many moms who reluctantly put their daughters in the GS and hated it, there were just no other options.
I agree it's great for the girls who want more of the Boy Scout program than the GSA program but it's not so much saving the girl from becoming a radical, democrat supporting third wave feminist as slowly feminizing and radicalizing the boys. At least, that's my perception of the agenda of the people who push this. It would have been better to have gender-separated units with specific joint activities IMO.
Jeffrey Lebowski
10-14-2017, 21:27
Disclaimer: I was never involved in BSA. My church had a generic scouting club with many of the sister churches, and we had handbooks and uniforms modeled after BSA, but it was clearly separate. My wife was in GS, I think, but it was clearly so impactful to her life that I think she has mentioned selling cookies maybe a handful of times in 14 years of marriage and 20 together. I do not have a son, but I do have a daughter. I don't think it would occur to either of us to put her in GS/BSA.
I am seeing that instead of people seeing this as an opportunity to teach girls the real virtues, instead of the bullshit that gets pumped into their heads in the Girl Scouts.
But I'd like to teach her these values and virtues myself. And I don't see them collapsing, even if BSA collapses, which part of me hopes it does. Even if we do have to take sides (or my daughter does someday long after I'm dead), I think "our side" will be OK. She is not even 2 yet, and we take her camping. I have every intention of teaching her full respect for the outdoors, for safety, for survival ideas, etc. And - as we've just gotten back into camping ourselves - judging by how reservations go - I think there are many folks with similar ideas.
I have too agree with CAP....does a lot of door opening starting at a young age and it's incredible what it does for a child's overall life perspective.
Sweet. Should be a great idea. Right up to the point where several of the girls come home from camp pregnant.
Reminds me of this:
72286
Except they won't need to visit a hooker now. See this is for the scouts' safety!
Wait, so Girl Scouts is led by feminazis yet they only teach home ec stuff... Isn't that idea of what women should be from back in the days when women were just property?
bobbyfairbanks
10-16-2017, 09:32
Wait women are more then just property?[Sarcasm2]
Wait women are more then just property?[Sarcasm2]
My wife and I started watching Game of Thrones. I giggle a little every time one of the women tries to talk and their man says something like “silence woman”.
I think each of us should try that with the women in our lives and let us know how that plays out.
clodhopper
10-18-2017, 07:17
Mine would hush at the minute I said it, but I would surely get an ear full later.
RblDiver
05-02-2018, 09:00
Apparently they're now changing their name, from Boy Scouts of America to Scouts BSA. This will take effect in February.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/boy-scouts-plan-a-name-change-as-girls-join-the/article_bea1d36a-c918-5596-ad5b-3400a64561da.html
Grant H.
05-02-2018, 09:29
Heard about the name change on the radio this morning.
It's sad...
Boy Scouts was a great experience for me and my older brothers, and to see it neutered in the interest of PC BS just further confirms how fawked our nation is...
I've had several job interviews where it came up that I had reached Eagle, and it's been a point of conversation in every one of them. I bet no one gives a sh!t going forward...
clodhopper
05-02-2018, 12:46
Heard about the name change on the radio this morning.
It's sad...
Boy Scouts was a great experience for me and my older brothers, and to see it neutered in the interest of PC BS just further confirms how fawked our nation is...
I've had several job interviews where it came up that I had reached Eagle, and it's been a point of conversation in every one of them. I bet no one gives a sh!t going forward...
Same.
In a bit of a conundrum. My older son is done, just has to finish paperwork submittals for his Eagle, he will finish. My younger son is a Star, almost Life rank, probably another 2 years to Eagle. I am an Eagle from years ago and been a scout leader for over 10 years. I am very seriously considering walking away from the whole deal. Not just over the recent addition of girls and the appeasement name change stuff, but the whole program has become so watered down, it just isn't the same anymore. I doubt the accomplishment of Eagle will have the same status in short order.
Sounds a lot like the fate of college anymore.
JohnnyEgo
05-02-2018, 13:09
Still comes down to the local experience more often then not. My son is a Wolf (2nd grader). Our pack has had three girls join, two in the younger divisions, one in his. They seem like a good fit, and the parents involved have pretty clear reasons why they didn't join the girl scouts. At least at this age, the kind of little girl who joins Cub Scouts seems to be the kind who prefers to play with boys. I don't know how things will translate as they get older or move into the BSA, but at least for now, the three I've met seem indistinguishable from the boys, in that they are just as dirty, high energy, and short attention spanned as their male counterparts, who haven't particularly seemed to care that they are, indeed, girls.
All three of the families had boys who were already enrolled in the pack. We have yet to get a total outsider, or someone who didn't clearly know what they were signing their girl up for. If anything, it seems to have strengthened family loyalty to the Pack. I realize everyone has their own thoughts, opinions, and experiences. But the on-the-ground effect of integration in our local Pack has been a non-issue. I like the girls, and hope they will stick with it.
Grant H.
05-02-2018, 13:27
Same.
In a bit of a conundrum. My older son is done, just has to finish paperwork submittals for his Eagle, he will finish. My younger son is a Star, almost Life rank, probably another 2 years to Eagle. I am an Eagle from years ago and been a scout leader for over 10 years. I am very seriously considering walking away from the whole deal. Not just over the recent addition of girls and the appeasement name change stuff, but the whole program has become so watered down, it just isn't the same anymore. I doubt the accomplishment of Eagle will have the same status in short order.
That's a tough call. For me it would all come down to the troop that you guys are involved in, and his interest in pushing forward for Eagle.
Still comes down to the local experience more often then not. My son is a Wolf (2nd grader). Our pack has had three girls join, two in the younger divisions, one in his. They seem like a good fit, and the parents involved have pretty clear reasons why they didn't join the girl scouts. At least at this age, the kind of little girl who joins Cub Scouts seems to be the kind who prefers to play with boys. I don't know how things will translate as they get older or move into the BSA, but at least for now, the three I've met seem indistinguishable from the boys, in that they are just as dirty, high energy, and short attention spanned as their male counterparts, who haven't particularly seemed to care that they are, indeed, girls.
All three of the families had boys who were already enrolled in the pack. We have yet to get a total outsider, or someone who didn't clearly know what they were signing their girl up for. If anything, it seems to have strengthened family loyalty to the Pack. I realize everyone has their own thoughts, opinions, and experiences. But the on-the-ground effect of integration in our local Pack has been a non-issue. I like the girls, and hope they will stick with it.
I'm glad it's going better than I would have guessed, but I expect you are correct, the age of the group makes a big difference.
It doesn't really change my opinion on allowing girls into the BSA program.
There is nothing wrong with having gender specific groups and activities. It's actually good to have them, when done right. BSA did it right for a long time, so the fact that our current society can't figure out that boys are boys and girls are girls, shouldn't have to change that.
StagLefty
05-02-2018, 13:40
Congrats to the Eagles on board. I was a Scout as a kid and spent 20 years as a leader until a few years ago. My son was in for 10 years and had a great time.
I know that some members as in the past will disagree with me but the Scout program is no longer the Scout program it was. It has become diluted over the years and is based on finances more than ever. Membership and inclusion for everybody has become the driving force.
I've talked to a lot of fellow volunteers over the last few years and most of them have left due to some of the changing policies. Probably 90% of the Scout leadership is volunteers and the program will not survive without them. I can honestly say that if the current day program was in effect when I considered getting my son involved I would have found something else for him. JMHO
JohnnyEgo
05-02-2018, 13:53
I can certainly appreciate your sentiments, Grant. I am an Eagle Scout and a Navy veteran myself, both from a time when neither of those had much in the way of women. Part of me feels like the integrated approach to BSA has long existed in the form of the Explorers, so I question the sudden need to change the Boys only side. I remember as a young Scout between the ages of 13-17 desperately wishing that we allowed girls into the organization for all the wrong reasons. And as an adult, I, like you, think there is nothing inherently wrong with gender specific groups and activities. But for these younger girls, my sympathy is with the parents, who lead way busier lives then my parents did, and want to find a way to spend quality time with all their children in a structured activity that teaches civic engagement and service. They were dragging their young daughters to the meetings anyways and having them just sit there and watch while their brothers did interesting things. If the BSA were to use Cub Scouts as a feeder to the co-ed Explorer program, I really have no objection to it. I do have strong reservations to bringing female integration to the Boy Scouts when the broader organization already provides an existing outlet for it. However, with Cub Scouts on the local level, this hasn't been about the gynocracy attempting to destroy the patriarchist male hegemony through it's cherished institutions, so much as finding a way to involve all family members in a rewarding experience.
Now if we got someone who clearly didn't understand the institution and wanted to use their child as a weapon in the culture wars, I'd feel very differently about it.
So why isn't that pervert state senator not allowed in womens restroom at the state capital?
CoGirl303
05-02-2018, 15:20
why cant they just do away with the gender titles, Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts merge, call it Scouts of America, and have a co-ed thing overall, with some limited activities for boys only and some for girls only?
How difficult is that?
and for fuck's sake...why can't I buy thin mints year round? [emoji35][emoji19]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
why cant they just do away with the gender titles, Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts merge, call it Scouts of America, and have a co-ed thing overall, with some limited activities for boys only and some for girls only?
How difficult is that?
and for fuck's sake...why can't I buy thin mints year round? [emoji35][emoji19]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You can buy thin mints year round. 7/11's store brand cookies are just like them for their choc/mint type.
Or you could pay more...
https://www.thrillist.com/eat/nation/girl-scout-cookie-equivalents-grocery-store-alternatives-to-thin-mints-samoas-tagalongs
CoGirl303
05-02-2018, 15:33
You can buy thin mints year round. 7/11's store brand cookies are just like them for their choc/mint type.
Or you could pay more...
https://www.thrillist.com/eat/nation/girl-scout-cookie-equivalents-grocery-store-alternatives-to-thin-mints-samoas-tagalongs
blasphemy. there are no replacements. imposters not allowed.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
blasphemy. there are no replacements. imposters not allowed.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Even Miami's taste like Marlboros when desperate. ;)
Grant H.
05-02-2018, 16:09
Congrats to the Eagles on board. I was a Scout as a kid and spent 20 years as a leader until a few years ago. My son was in for 10 years and had a great time.
I know that some members as in the past will disagree with me but the Scout program is no longer the Scout program it was. It has become diluted over the years and is based on finances more than ever. Membership and inclusion for everybody has become the driving force.
I've talked to a lot of fellow volunteers over the last few years and most of them have left due to some of the changing policies. Probably 90% of the Scout leadership is volunteers and the program will not survive without them. I can honestly say that if the current day program was in effect when I considered getting my son involved I would have found something else for him. JMHO
I largely agree (I've been un-involved for a little while now, so the program may well have eroded enough to make it not worth it), but even when I was still in there were good troops and poor troops.
One of the guys that worked for me for a while was involved in a different troop, and apparently they basically never went camping, didn't participate in the big summer camps (BDSR, Philmont, Jamboree, etc), and focused solely on earning merit badges. He hated it, and dropped out at star(maybe?).
Our troop was awesome. We had troop camp outs every couple months, we were always part of BDSR, the Klondike, we sent crews to Philmont as many years as possible (I went twice), and we sent kids to the National Jamboree's (my two older brothers went, but I opted for my second Philmont trek rather than that).
I had two older brothers (both eagles) pushing me to earn Eagle, so I was the youngest in the state for quite a while (may still be, not sure), and I wouldn't have ever made it there without the troop I was in (and my family).
I can certainly appreciate your sentiments, Grant. I am an Eagle Scout and a Navy veteran myself, both from a time when neither of those had much in the way of women. Part of me feels like the integrated approach to BSA has long existed in the form of the Explorers, so I question the sudden need to change the Boys only side. I remember as a young Scout between the ages of 13-17 desperately wishing that we allowed girls into the organization for all the wrong reasons. And as an adult, I, like you, think there is nothing inherently wrong with gender specific groups and activities. But for these younger girls, my sympathy is with the parents, who lead way busier lives then my parents did, and want to find a way to spend quality time with all their children in a structured activity that teaches civic engagement and service. They were dragging their young daughters to the meetings anyways and having them just sit there and watch while their brothers did interesting things. If the BSA were to use Cub Scouts as a feeder to the co-ed Explorer program, I really have no objection to it. I do have strong reservations to bringing female integration to the Boy Scouts when the broader organization already provides an existing outlet for it. However, with Cub Scouts on the local level, this hasn't been about the gynocracy attempting to destroy the patriarchist male hegemony through it's cherished institutions, so much as finding a way to involve all family members in a rewarding experience.
Now if we got someone who clearly didn't understand the institution and wanted to use their child as a weapon in the culture wars, I'd feel very differently about it.
That sounds pretty rational and reasonable, the way you laid it out. That would be a good way to grow the explorers program.
I remember doing Elkhorn at BDSR (which is a high adventure for all scouts, including explorers) and being "all a-twitter" that we were going to go backpacking with girls... For the same wrong reasons you mentioned... It was totally different once we were on the trail, it wasn't a problem (still very well chaperoned), but that was because they made it seem like you were camping with your cool sister (or something, I never had sisters, so...)
StagLefty
05-02-2018, 17:35
why cant they just do away with the gender titles, Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts merge, call it Scouts of America, and have a co-ed thing overall, with some limited activities for boys only and some for girls only?
How difficult is that?
and for fuck's sake...why can't I buy thin mints year round? [emoji35][emoji19]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You'd have to have enough male and female leaders for activities especially all campouts. And we all know how the adolescent age folks are so responsible when it comes to the opposite sex. I'm glad I'm not involved anymore because I sure as hell don't want that responsibility or headache.
I am not certain I would have been able to honestly recite the Scout Law if I was 14 years old and camping with some nice 14 year old female scouts. The Oath would have been straight out. [Flower]
CoGirl303
05-02-2018, 17:55
You'd have to have enough male and female leaders for activities especially all campouts. And we all know how the adolescent age folks are so responsible when it comes to the opposite sex. I'm glad I'm not involved anymore because I sure as hell don't want that responsibility or headache.
I went to a co-ed summer christian camp for three weeks in KS when I was 14, wasnt an issue.
Went to a co-ed summer camp at our nearby Lake all summer long from ages 10-13. There were female and male counselors and group leaders. Most counselors were 19-24 years old. no issues.
Have people forgotten how to do co-ed stuff? Girls on one side, boys on the other, a few counselors in between at nights.
good grief.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
StagLefty
05-02-2018, 18:07
Ditto-good grief !!!! [Sarcasm2]
Forgot to add the sarcasm alert when posted !!!
JohnnyEgo
05-02-2018, 19:12
I went to a co-ed summer christian camp for three weeks in KS when I was 14, wasnt an issue.
Went to a co-ed summer camp at our nearby Lake all summer long from ages 10-13. There were female and male counselors and group leaders. Most counselors were 19-24 years old. no issues.
Have people forgotten how to do co-ed stuff? Girls on one side, boys on the other, a few counselors in between at nights.
good grief.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I've probably got a couple of years (or more then a couple) on you, and I understand that times change. I totally believe you when you say that you went to a nice, christian, co-ed camp with plenty of counselors in the next age bracket up, and that you and those you associated with were good girls and boys who wouldn't think of getting into trouble.
However, in my teenage years, I was a lot more aligned with cstone. At 14, I didn't have any game, and I didn't understand all the mechanics, but lack of knowledge or skill certainly didn't hamper my ambitions, nor repeated failure. Nor did piety stop me from trying to look down Rae-Jean's Sunday dress at the pew in front of me. Could be I was just an unusually immoral kid, but I seem to recall having plenty of similar company. In a camp such as you describe, 14 year old me would have considered it a target-rich environment. And I've known enough preacher's daughters in my time to bet that there is always one good girl in the pack who's willing to peel away. So if we're making aggregate assumptions based on personal experience, I'd bet on the side of teenage hormones and the statistics of time, exposure, and sample size over teenage faith and the vigilance of other adults.
Not to say it can't be done, but I'd want a pretty significant quantity of responsible adults of both sexes to help out. Which is no doubt what you had in your church-sponsored Explorers group.
Grant H.
05-02-2018, 19:53
I went to a co-ed summer christian camp for three weeks in KS when I was 14, wasnt an issue.
Went to a co-ed summer camp at our nearby Lake all summer long from ages 10-13. There were female and male counselors and group leaders. Most counselors were 19-24 years old. no issues.
Have people forgotten how to do co-ed stuff? Girls on one side, boys on the other, a few counselors in between at nights.
good grief.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ditto-good grief !!!!
You're both missing the point.
It's not that co-ed can't/doesn't work, it's the point of the Boy Scouts of America.
I volunteer at the christian summer camp that my wife and I met at (as campers) every year, and it's co-ed, and it works just fine. (within reason...)
I've been to a number of co-ed christian youth camps around the country, as a camper and as staff, and it works. (within reason...)
But, you're fooling yourself if you think that co-ed camps are all happy hunky dory, even/especially christian camps. You'd be amazed what campers don't know that happens at christian youth camp, that adult staff has to deal with.
No, those girls didn't immaculately conceive... Anyone that's been involved as adult staff where they get pulled into camp security (sweeps to find missing campers), or dealing with missing campers once they've been found can probably tell you the same story...
I've probably got a couple of years (or more then a couple) on you, and I understand that times change. I totally believe you when you say that you went to a nice, christian, co-ed camp with plenty of counselors in the next age bracket up, and that you and those you associated with were good girls and boys who wouldn't think of getting into trouble.
However, in my teenage years, I was a lot more aligned with cstone. At 14, I didn't have any game, and I didn't understand all the mechanics, but lack of knowledge or skill certainly didn't hamper my ambitions, nor repeated failure. Nor did piety stop me from trying to look down Rae-Jean's Sunday dress at the pew in front of me. Could be I was just an unusually immoral kid, but I seem to recall having plenty of similar company. In a camp such as you describe, 14 year old me would have considered it a target-rich environment. And I've known enough preacher's daughters in my time to bet that there is always one good girl in the pack who's willing to peel away. So if we're making aggregate assumptions based on personal experience, I'd bet on the side of teenage hormones and the statistics of time, exposure, and sample size over teenage faith and the vigilance of other adults.
Not to say it can't be done, but I'd want a pretty significant quantity of responsible adults of both sexes to help out. Which is no doubt what you had in your church-sponsored Explorers group.
More than one. I'll promise you that...
StagLefty
05-03-2018, 08:45
You're both missing the point.
Just to make it clear I'm not agreeing with her by any stretch !!! I added the sarcasm smiley this morning [Beer]
Grant H.
05-03-2018, 09:05
Just to make it clear I'm not agreeing with her by any stretch !!! I added the sarcasm smiley this morning [Beer]
That makes more sense...
I wasn't entirely sure, but I took your post at face value...
I'm glad girls are getting an opportunity to learn to be independent, to do something more than sling baked goods for a faceless organization.
Yeah, now they get to sling crappy, overpriced popcorn. #BigWin
First night at church camp when I was 14 years old involved a double date in the woods and a fifth of Vodka. None of knew each other till that evening but we knew each other for the rest of the week. I believe we were all moved by a spirit that evening and I really came to enjoy church camp.
It was a great change from the all male camping I was used to in scouts.
Aloha_Shooter
05-03-2018, 20:15
Eagle Scout and former Scoutmaster. About 26 years as an adult Scouter but I "retired" a couple years ago over the membership policy changes. I have always been a staunch defender of it being BOY Scouts but I probably would have stayed in if the only membership policy change was admitting girls. I've seen plenty of girls who put contemporary boys to shame when it comes to woodcraft and Scoutcraft. On the other hand, I've been a teenage boy. I know for dang sure that not many of them are paying attention when I'm giving safety (or other) instructions if there's a cute 15 year old girl across the campfire.
I'm glad girls are getting an opportunity to learn to be independent, to do something more than sling baked goods for a faceless organization.
Then fix the damn organization instead of trying to force another to accommodate you.
Yeah, now they get to sling crappy, overpriced popcorn. #BigWin
LOL.
I was in three Boy Scout troops (my parents moved around a lot) and none of them did the popcorn sales. I never even knew it was a thing until I started working and saw coworkers trying to sell popcorn for their kids. C'mon people get creative! The troops I was in did stuff like selling/delivering mulch (imagine carrying 40 lb bags of mulch as an 11 year old) and partnering with local businesses who sponsored food sales in their parking lot as a marketing event.
Only one thing can come of the mixing: mischief.
74623
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180504/aa2b4f385d785ce38cf0d9c638afb07d.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
However, in my teenage years, I was a lot more aligned with cstone. At 14, I didn't have any game, and I didn't understand all the mechanics, but lack of knowledge or skill certainly didn't hamper my ambitions, nor repeated failure. Nor did piety stop me from trying to look down Rae-Jean's Sunday dress at the pew in front of me. Could be I was just an unusually immoral kid, but I seem to recall having plenty of similar company. In a camp such as you describe, 14 year old me would have considered it a target-rich environment. And I've known enough preacher's daughters in my time to bet that there is always one good girl in the pack who's willing to peel away. So if we're making aggregate assumptions based on personal experience, I'd bet on the side of teenage hormones and the statistics of time, exposure, and sample size over teenage faith and the vigilance of other adults.
Your post made me chuckle as this was pretty much my exact experience as well.
theGinsue
05-04-2018, 11:50
Then fix the damn organization instead of trying to force another to accommodate you.
BINGO!
theGinsue
05-04-2018, 12:23
LOL.
I was in three Boy Scout troops (my parents moved around a lot) and none of them did the popcorn sales. I never even knew it was a thing until I started working and saw coworkers trying to sell popcorn for their kids. C'mon people get creative! The troops I was in did stuff like selling/delivering mulch (imagine carrying 40 lb bags of mulch as an 11 year old) and partnering with local businesses who sponsored food sales in their parking lot as a marketing event.
Popcorn sales wasn't a thing when I was in scouting. When we needed to raise money for tents and other supplies for the newly formed troop I helped found (my brother and I with another friend were the only 3 boys who came from an existing troop) we built and sold 20' tow cables made from supplies/equipment donated to our troop from Armco Steel. Going door to door in Kansas City with an armload of tow cables was interesting. We made enough money selling those cables to buy tents for the entire troop.
Boy Scouts taught me a lot of outdoor skills as well as instilled a sense of community and environmental responsibility. But it was more than that. It offered a place where young boys could learn from older boys and male adults about skills we needed to grow up to be men. We could discuss issues that only applied to boys/men in an environment where we were free of females which encouraged open and honest dialogue. Since we had no females to distract us, we had no outlet for our raging hormones that we didn't understand yet how to control - and ultimately, we avoided getting into situations that could have a life-long impact. These discussions weren't based on the old "keep your pretty little flower of a woman at home and in the kitchen where she belongs" mentality, but did help us understand that men should treat women with respect and honor them. Boys need to learn how to deal with the physical, emotional and pyschological changes, specific to males, that they experience as they go through puberty. Boys need a place away from female influence where they can feel free to learn the skills they need to become men. But then again, our society doesn't like men to be strong in mind and body anymore. Today, boys need only to learn how to be sensitive and nurturing - anything else is just considered macho bullshit.
Nothing positive will come from this. The traditional lessons learned from Boy Scouts will be watered down to nothing until Scouting dies completely.
I can understand why girls & women want to join the Boy Scouts. From what I saw out of Girl Scouts (as a father of a daughter shortly associated with that organization) is they are too focused on the old steroetypes of what girls should learn and won't advance to providing similar experiences to what the boys are learning. Girls today aren't satisfied with staying home and baking cookies and they shouldn't be. They, too, should be out learning outdoor skills. But, like young boys, they need an environment free of the opposite gender to openly learn what makes them special and unique as girls/women. GSA needs to adapt to helping to raise strong and knowledgable women with skills they need to survive on their own and not have to rely on anyone else. Because GSA won't adapt enough to meet these young ladies needs, these girls only choice is to seek inclusion into BSA. Unfortunately, BSA will be further modifying their focus to give a more hybridized experience of the two organizations - which will ultimately benefit no one.
Just my two cents on this.
StagLefty
05-04-2018, 13:07
Well said Ginsue. You articulated it way better than I could. No wonder Chuck Norris defers his problems to you [ROFL1]
No wonder Chuck Norris defers his problems to you [ROFL1]
Suggesting that Chuck Norris has problems on a public forum...well, that's pretty ballsy. On a positive note, you won't have to look over your shoulder checking for Mr. Norris. You'll never see it coming.
Well said Ginsue. You articulated it way better than I could. No wonder Chuck Norris defers his problems to you [ROFL1]
The Ginsue!!!! Excellent post!
For those who want an alternative to BSA or GSA, there is a semi-coed group called the Federation of the North American Explorers. I say semi-coed because some things that are better with a single-sex activity focus are done as such (I believe camping falls under this).
Men lead boys. Women lead girls. None of the women leading boys crap I HATED as a cub scout.
Their only presence in CO is in Littleton.
https://www.fneexplorers.com/fne-explorers-group-directory
Direct link to Littleton group: http://www.olmcexplorers.org/
I'm unsure if Nicholas has updated their website as it is blocked at work.
While FNE is a Catholic scouting group, one need not be Catholic to join.
Singlestack
05-04-2018, 16:18
+1 Ginsue.
Lots of good discussion here and many valuable points to consider. As an Eagle Scout (1970) in a family of Eagles, I'm saddened and disappointed by the Gates changes as well as the recent changes. I fully expect the new Scouts BSA to be further corrupted by SJW and leftist leadership who will continue to push deviancy and require acceptance in all forms. There are undoubtedly many good and decent people in (Boy) Scouts currently, but they will be made to care, conform, and advocate or be forced out over time. The modern far left is like a swarm of locusts - once they set their sights on an organization they want to control they will infiltrate, take it over from within, and pressure from the outside until the leadership is marginalized. Over time, I expect the Scouts BSA dogma to at least lean toward the effeminization of boys with a strong influence of multiculuralsim, globalism, and environmentalism (NOT conservation). I sure hope I'm wrong.
Bailey Guns
05-04-2018, 22:06
I'm glad girls are getting an opportunity to learn to be independent, to do something more than sling baked goods for a faceless organization.
Yeah...we have to force something on to someone else and force an organization that worked fine for decades to change their most basic of philosophies instead of expecting parents to do their jobs. Makes sense.
The NRA should start a boys only and a girls only set of organizations.
The bed-wetters hate them enough already, it would not add any new enemies, and would fill the void the scouts have now created.
Ginsue, great post. You brought up some perspectves I hadn't thought of.
SideShow Bob
05-05-2018, 21:18
My thoughts are along the lines of Ginsue’s, I am wondering how many of the girl “Boy” Scouts are going to get a crash course in real life about 9 months after their first weekend outing, or after the annual national jamboree.....
Zundfolge
05-05-2018, 22:11
Mom would never let us join the Boy Scouts because she believed they were "too secular" ... and this was in the late 70s, early 80s.
Instead my brother and I were in The Brigade (http://csbministries.org/). One of the huge ironies is that the one controversy with the group when I was a kid was that they were "too gun friendly" (the church we went to was a Mennonite Brethren church ... so basically commie, pacifists that were tremendously socially conservative without being as insular as the Amish or Holdeman Mennonites ... picture Southern Baptists that don't hate communism). Many of the CSB camps have courses in riflery (including EBRs).
One aspect of this whole story that amuses me is that apparently the Girl Scouts are not too happy and see this as a ploy by the BSA to steal some of their members.
StagLefty
05-06-2018, 08:55
I wonder if we'll see the YMCA become the Association in the near future ?
I wonder if we'll see the YMCA become the Association in the near future ?
YMCA has been co-ed for some time. :)
YMCA has been co-ed for some time. :)
I think he means a name change.
I think he means a name change.
Ah! Thank you. Ordinarily, I'd say that ship has sailed long ago. But with the way things are going these days...who knows?
StagLefty
05-06-2018, 12:25
YMCA has been co-ed for some time. :)
I was referring to the words Young,Men's, and Christian [Beer]
Bailey Guns
05-06-2018, 13:00
Young = definite age bias
Men = duh
Christian = get a rope
RblDiver
05-06-2018, 14:57
Uh, that's already happened, now it's pretty much just The Y :P
Aloha_Shooter
05-07-2018, 06:41
This move was predictable. National was already looking to go this direction to make up for declining membership and now has to make up for an acceleration of that decline after their last 2 membership policy changes. They can't and won't admit the last 2 changes were wrong or that other changes they've made to the program (creation of Tiger Cubs and then Lion Cubs) have been counterproductive.
What is more disturbing to me is how these fundamental changes are being announced and implemented. I will have to ask my remaining contacts in the council if they were asked to provide feedback on a proposal (as was done when National first voiced their intent to allow homosexuals in, got blistered by feedback from council representatives, and watered it down to just allowing homosexual youth to join) or whether this was just an edict laid down by National as Robert Gates did when they announced the admission of homosexual adults. In terms of timing, this resembles the latter more -- Gates announced the latter move in June while units and councils were focused on preparing for and going to camp and Jamboree.
Bureaucrats and lawyers have been doing their level best to destroy the program for the past 2-3 decades. In that same time period, the liberals have successfully taken over the organization and stolen it and its assets away from its heritage.
Aloha_Shooter
05-07-2018, 06:44
The NRA should start a boys only and a girls only set of organizations.
The bed-wetters hate them enough already, it would not add any new enemies, and would fill the void the scouts have now created.
I disagree. The NRA should focus on its one issue: guns. Shooting is and should be a coed activity. Yes, it's dominated by males today as it has been historically but I would welcome an increase in the ranks of female shooters.
To my knowledge, Trail Life USA is still a boys-only organization. It's centered around the things its founders felt BSA got right while getting rid of the fluff that they think BSA got wrong.
Singlestack
05-07-2018, 06:53
An Eagle Scout Explains the Fatal Folly of Taking the ‘Boy’ out of Boy Scouts
https://townhall.com/columnists/scottmorefield/2018/05/07/an-eagle-scout-explains-the-fatal-folly-of-taking-the-boy-out-of-boy-scouts-n2478109?utm_source=thdaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl&newsletterad=
The first time I walked into a Boy Scout meeting as a boy of eleven is as ingrained in my mind as if it were yesterday. My Dad and I descended the moldy steps into the basement of an old Methodist church, opened the door, and walked in to the smell of freshly cut wood chips and the chopping sound of an axe hitting its mark. A group of ten or so boys around my age and older were gathered around a bearded, uniformed Scoutmaster who was showing them how to properly use a hatchet. We had arrived late, just to check out the goings-on. I wasn’t into sports, or much of anything really - except books - but a couple of my friends were Scouts and had invited me to their meeting.
“Want to give it a shot?” the Scoutmaster was looking at me and holding the axe out, handle first. Before walking over and taking it I tentatively looked at my dad, who pursed his lips and nodded approvingly. “Safety first,” the bearded man cautioned before he proceeded to show me how to cut the wood without cutting off any fingers in the process. As I performed that simple exercise, I remember thinking how cool it was to be trusted to wield what could be a pretty dangerous tool, and the responsibility made me feel bigger than my eleven years. But most of all I remember how doing what I perceived as “man-stuff,” surrounded by men and other boys, made me feel at least a little bit more like a man.
Those moments began what was to be a seven year adventure and the most significant non-school element of my pre-teen and teen-aged life. They were years filled with lots of “boy-stuff” under the watchful supervision of caring men and the camaraderie of other boys. Canoeing alone on a lake. Building campfires. Barely passing the ridiculously hard swim test at summer camp so I wouldn’t be the only kid not allowed on the water. S’mores. Dump cake. Hobo packets. Campfire stories. Games, teasing, and general rowdiness. Sleeping alone in the middle of the woods as a part of the Order of the Arrow Ordeal. Peeling myself out of a semi-warm sleeping bag on a freezing February morning in 1986 to watch Haley’s Comet pay a rare visit to Earth’s orbit. Picking up and sorting food for the hungry as a part of our annual food drive. Lugging a wooden sled across town to compete with other troops in Scouting skills contests, all of which involved plenty of cool “boy-stuff” like tying knots and building things.
There was a lot of “doing” in Scouting, but the ultimate goal was always the same. The Boy Scouts of America started in 1910 as a way to promote good citizenship and Christian morality, two years after Sir Robert Baden-Powell founded the movement in England. “We aim for the practice of Christianity in their everyday life and dealings, and not merely the profession of its theology on Sundays,” Baden-Powell wrote in Scouting For Boys.
The iconography was, in many instances, literally Norman 'Rockwellian,' from the chivalry of a crisply uniformed boy saluting the American flag or helping an old lady across the street to the Native American symbolism incorporated into the Order of the Arrow rituals. From the ceremonies to the symbols to the reading materials and skills learned - all were meant to teach, to prepare, but most of all to endear a heartfelt respect for our Creator, our family, our country, our environment, and the world around us.
In Scouting, progressing from rank to rank felt like it meant something, and I knew that becoming an Eagle Scout would be something I would cherish the rest of my life. Neil Armstrong was an Eagle Scout. So was former President Ford and our then-Tennessee Governor Lamar Alexander.
“Former Scouts have walked on the Moon, become President, and won the Heisman Trophy,” said President Reagan at a luncheon commemorating the group’s 75th anniversary in 1985. “Today they serve as Cabinet Secretaries, as my Press Secretary, and in the Congress. In fact, about two-thirds of the Members of the Congress have been in the Boy Scouts.”
I was proud to be a Scout, prouder still to earn my Eagle rank just before my 18th birthday.
But of course, as we all know, once social justice warriors gets their slimy tentacles into something their thirst is never quenched until that something is entirely destroyed, and such has it been with Boy Scouting ever since its clueless national leaders began leading the organization down that perilous cliff. From openly gay scout leaders to transgender members to just last Wednesday, when the organization officially announced a name change to Scouts BSA because, well, Boy Scouting isn’t just for boys anymore.
“We’re trying to find the right way to say we’re here for both young men and young women,” said hapless Boy Scouts Chief Scout Executive Mike Surbaugh. Because everyone is the same, don’t you know. Because little boys and little girls are, as far as today’s liberals are concerned, identical to each other in every possible way except a few ‘easily changeable’ body parts.
Of course, anyone with half a brain knows that boys and girls are different, but reason and common sense has never stopped a rabid social justice warrior from wanting to impose their twisted view of reality on the rest of us.
Ironically, their attack on Boy Scouting has also hurt the other group founded by Baden-Powell and his sister, Agnes - Girl Scouts. Though the decision to allow girls was applauded by various progressive and feminist groups, Girl Scout representatives themselves are less than amused. "The Boy Scouts' house is on fire," Girl Scouts told ABC News in a statement last October when the decision to allow girls was first announced. "Instead of addressing systemic issues of continuing sexual assault, financial mismanagement and deficient programming, BSA's senior management wants to add an accelerant to the house fire by recruiting girls."
Imagine, girls wanting a place to come of age and be themselves without the immaturity and awkwardness of gross boys. Imagine, girls wanting to do "girl-stuff."
Granted, some of this “boy and girl stuff” overlaps. Obviously, girls can canoe, camp out, and do pretty much anything a boy can, if she wants. But whether it’s a sports team or Boy or Girl Scouting, groups formed based on gender can provide a healthy, nurturing place for kids to come of age, not suppressing their God-given instincts and preferences but rather celebrating them and learning how to express themselves and function socially within the training wheels of those of their own gender.
Because try as liberals might to erase it, gender is and will always be “a thing.”
“The benefit of the single-gender environment has been well-documented by educators, scholars, other girl- and youth-serving organizations,” writes the Girl Scout blog, and they couldn’t be more on point. Check out this list of advantages of single-sex schools, a privilege only available to the rich. Sports teams provide similar life experiences, of course, but that wouldn’t have been an option for 80’s me.
Sadly, ‘2018 everybody’ will no longer have the option, at least as far as Boy Scouting is concerned.
I am grateful for Scouting and what it meant to me growing up. But I am also angry at what liberals have turned the group into, as well as the fact that, a decade from now, it very likely won’t exist. Because tragically, the Boy Scouts’ stubborn march to ‘inclusivity’ at any cost has managed to gut the organization of what made it special in the first place, which inevitably reminded me of this key quote from the movie The Incredibles -
“If everyone is special, no one is.”
clodhopper
05-07-2018, 09:01
Some have raised the idea that the BSA and the GSA should combine. What was not well publicized was that the BSA approached the GSA with the idea of merging to better incorporate girls into the program. The GSA's response was basically, "Get stuffed!". The GSA leadership is mostly staffed with women's lib and similar political activists who carry high disdain for the BSA. I know, based on the curriculum of the GSA, how could that be? They don't seem to care about the curriculum as much as maintaining power and the opportunity to push political messages. The GSA org is screwed and I cannot see it lasting long term, not with any success.
While I have sympathy for the "Tom-boy" ladies out there who were more interested in the BSA program, I stand strongly behind the concept of a single sex program to allow boys to grow and learn without the social distraction. There are too many distractions today already, give them a chance to turn some of that stuff off and experience a time where they can think about something they might not otherwise.
I have many times been approached regarding the lack of opportunity for young ladies to participate in outdoor activities. My response was to get involved with the GSA and work to re-align the program. Oh, that is too hard/complicated. OK, start your own program for girls, use the BSA book, recruit female leaders, fundraise, etc, or use one of the other alternate BSA programs out there to model after. Still too hard, despite that is just what the boy leaders are doing. Too many people just want the B-aby S-itters of A-merica to watch their kids for them and provide an excuse for not providing better parenting because "well I enrolled them in BSA, I don't know why they are useless". That would be parents of both boys and girls.
This move was predictable. National was already looking to go this direction to make up for declining membership and now has to make up for an acceleration of that decline after their last 2 membership policy changes. They can't and won't admit the last 2 changes were wrong or that other changes they've made to the program (creation of Tiger Cubs and then Lion Cubs) have been counterproductive.
Out of curiosity, why do you consider the creation of the Tiger and Lion programs to be detrimental?
ChadAmberg
05-07-2018, 11:19
I think the issue is that there is no clear answer.
Does there need to be single gender spaces? Yeah, the science pretty clearly demonstrates that. Some people have a hard enough time being OK with anyone else, and adding in the inherent stress between the sexes, severe introverts are going to have a hard time in particular.
On the other is the political bits. I know so many conservative leaning moms who want their daughters to be involved in a group like the scouts, and have a seething hatred towards the GSA. Some I know have their daughters in it anyway, and can see how strong the "cookies and third wave feminist indoctrination" is. If you want to save the future, there has to be a way to give these young girls alternatives.
There ARE alternatives but that’s not good enough for those whose goal is to destroy rather than build.
StagLefty
05-07-2018, 11:55
^ LIKE
Aloha_Shooter
05-07-2018, 23:45
Out of curiosity, why do you consider the creation of the Tiger and Lion programs to be detrimental?
My theory is that the parents suffer from burnout because of the intensive involvement during Cubs. When they made Webelos a 2 year program, that added to the length of time parents were forced to helicopter. Add 2 more years for Tiger and Lion Cubs and by the time the boys are ready to transition to Boy Scouts, many parents are ready to divert them to sports or something else that isn't quite as involved for the parents. Many of the transitioning Cubs' parents that I've encountered in recent years didn't understand that while we wanted SOME involvement ("BSA doesn't stand for Baby Sitters Anonymous!"), they didn't need to be present for every meeting, every activity.
No science behind that theory, just my observations over 2.5 decades of adult Scouting.
CoGirl303
05-23-2018, 09:02
oh dear.....now the're handing out condoms to all of the scouts. [emoji51]
I can see this not ending well at all.
https://davidharrisjr.com/culture/boy-scout-jamboree-is-all-about-the-condoms-being-prepared-now-means-safe-sex-on-a-moments-notice/
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hope all them boys have their Whittlin' Bitch card.
https://i.imgur.com/atLKepI.png
StagLefty
05-23-2018, 11:24
oh dear.....now the're handing out condoms to all of the scouts. [emoji51]
I can see this not ending well at all.
https://davidharrisjr.com/culture/boy-scout-jamboree-is-all-about-the-condoms-being-prepared-now-means-safe-sex-on-a-moments-notice/
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Probably part of the new Safe Sex merit badge [Sarcasm2]
oh dear.....now the're handing out condoms to all of the scouts. [emoji51]
I can see this not ending well at all.
How else are they supposed to get their 'banana badge'?
So how many parents with teenage kids are just coasting along, not worrying about sex, except during a scout camping trip or the Jamboree or whatever? All this hand wringing about the possibility of sex seems pretty dumb to me. If you have a teenager, there is a chance of sex 100% of the time, period. An occasional camping trip changes nothing and adds zero additional challenge for parents that are already engaged.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.