View Full Version : Huge Surprise: 2013 Colorado gun laws have virtually no effect
http://kdvr.com/2017/10/17/study-colorados-strict-gun-background-check-laws-arent-working/
DENVER -- Colorado passed strict gun background check laws about three years ago, but new research shows they aren't working.Researchers at Johns Hopkins and the University of California Davis teamed up to see if people are complying with Colorado's laws. Their conclusion is there is virtually no effect.
The data show background checks didn't significantly increase since Colorado passed stricter laws.
The study found a modest increase in background checks in private-party sales, but almost no change in gun show sales.
The study did not reach a definitive conclusion as to why background checks didn't jump.
Researchers suggested little enforcement and calls from pro-gun organizations to ignore the law may have contributed to the finding
The "researchers" clearly missed the fact that background checks have been mandatory for gun show sales for more than 20 years(yes, prior to the Columbine murders). This was a poorly conducted study in which they started with a preconceived result and worked backwards to collect data to support their hypothesis. Then they go on to suggest that "pro-gun organizations" are actively encouraging people to violate the law, without providing even a hint of supporting evidence. This is a sad statement on the state of scientific integrity in our nation, when political agenda driven suppositions are presented as scientific research(on this and many other issues).
[Mad]
Zundfolge
10-18-2017, 10:37
They've prevented me from buying several guns (not going to drive all the way to Denver to have to sit through a BGC on the off chance it gets held up and I have to drive home empty handed ... and not paying an extra $30 on a gun that is a super great deal because then its not as great a deal anymore).
So its worked as designed.
beast556
10-18-2017, 11:25
It really sucks the democrats pass bullshit law's that do nothing. Now they find out the law's were pointless and prevented nothing and they wont repeal them.
newracer
10-18-2017, 11:30
They've prevented me from buying several guns (not going to drive all the way to Denver to have to sit through a BGC on the off chance it gets held up and I have to drive home empty handed ... and not paying an extra $30 on a gun that is a super great deal because then its not as great a deal anymore).
So its worked as designed.
x2 I have passed on buying several firearms posted on this site because I didn't want to spend the time and effort for the BGC.
It really sucks the democrats pass bullshit law's that do nothing. Now they find out the law's were pointless and prevented nothing and they wont repeal them.
This is why every law should have a sunset clause.
Zundfolge
10-18-2017, 11:44
x2 I have passed on buying several firearms posted on this site because I didn't want to spend the time and effort for the BGC.
I've also not sold guns for this reason.
Firearms laws do nothing except piss off the people who care about following the law. I think Colorado's bills did exactly what they were designed to do because anybody that observed the process knows they held nothing but contempt for Colorado's lawful gun owners. Their unwillingness to amend a CCW license exemption in the background check law is proof of that. Too much evidence was presented during the hearings to be ignorant to the fact that these laws will accomplish absolutely nothing. Secondly, as legislators both at the state and federal level pass more and more stupid legislation, more and more people will become less and less willing to follow their stupid laws.
GilpinGuy
10-18-2017, 12:19
The anti 2A folks will look at this and say, "See! These laws aren't working! We need MORE laws!"
Criminals don't obey laws. The. End.
The anti 2A folks will look at this and say, "See! These laws aren't working! We need MORE laws!"
Yep...definition of insanity.
Zundfolge
10-18-2017, 13:03
Firearms laws do nothing except piss off the people who care about following the law. I think Colorado's bills did exactly what they were designed to do because anybody that observed the process knows they held nothing but contempt for Colorado's lawful gun owners.
The ultimate goal of these laws is to get Republican and Libertarian gun owners to say "fuck it I'm moving to Idaho", thus bluing the state a little bit more.
I wonder how much money was spent to do this "research". I'll bet I could've come to the same conclusion in record time with some research that goes like this, "here's Chicago crime rate and here's Chicago's' gun laws, need I say more?" This concludes my research paper.
Zundfolge
10-18-2017, 14:34
Criminals don't obey laws. The. End.
And as the law gets stupider, even the non-criminal stop obeying.
And as the law gets stupider, even the non-criminal stop obeying.
That can happen when there's selective enforcement.
BushMasterBoy
10-18-2017, 16:26
What if they outlaw all the laws they made and made all future laws illegal?
Great-Kazoo
10-18-2017, 16:39
What if they outlaw all the laws they made and made all future laws Undocumented?
FIFY
wctriumph
10-18-2017, 17:20
I think the laws are stupid and ineffective at reducing crime and are an inconvenience overall because it makes me dependent on business hours to transact a simple trade.
I am thinking that the prog's knew this all along but it did not work, as all of us said.
It's a flawed study. Their entire metric is based on how many people agree to buy overpriced shit at Tanner.
The new laws obviously did nothing to reduce your chances of being shot at Tanner.
BushMasterBoy
10-18-2017, 18:17
What if they outlaw all the laws they made and made all future in laws illegal?
I don't want a shotgun wedding!
I believe the politicians who voted for the laws didn't and still don't care if they were effective. When asked to listen they didn't. When recalled, they didn't care. If they could get more "do nothing but piss off people" laws passed, they would.
It seems to me that at least half of every legislative session in Colorado is aimed at ways to circumvent TABOR. This is progressive government and more of the citizens of Colorado seem to want it this way.
(IMO) These laws were passed with 2 main reasons from the anti-gun side of the house. 1. Money. Now, law-abiding folks such as us have to pay to drive to an FFL, pay for a background check, then pay to drive home. Thus, making the process cumbersome and takes more money. 2. They were hoping this would discourage law-abiding people from buying/selling firearms. From the sounds of it here, it worked. Our state is getting inundated with people who are from Commifornia and New York. They are bringing the "Bloomberg" and "Feinstein" way of thinking. They don't know anything factual about our world. All they know is guns are evil and icky and are to blame for man killing man. If the left had their way, they would abolish the 2nd Amendment and force all gun owners off of a cliff with a bulldozer. It pisses me off to no end that firearms are the only inanimate object blamed for the acts of evil men. Our country is really in a bad way right now and I don't see it getting any better. A nation of people who are unwilling to stand for the values of our country and Constitution are also unwilling to defend it.
buffalobo
10-18-2017, 22:49
I believe the politicians who voted for the laws didn't and still don't care if they were effective. When asked to listen they didn't. When recalled, they didn't care. If they could get more "do nothing but piss off people" laws passed, they would.
It seems to me that at least half of every legislative session in Colorado is aimed at ways to circumvent TABOR. This is progressive government and more of the citizens of Colorado seem to want it this way.10 Ring.
If you're unarmed you are a victim
hollohas
10-19-2017, 07:44
The new laws obviously did nothing to reduce your chances of being shot at Tanner.Hahahaha!
Are you kidding? The new laws worked great. Got me to move the fuck away from Colorado. [Beer]
Are you kidding? The new laws worked great. Got me to move the fuck away from Colorado. [Beer]
To Mogadishu?
GilpinGuy
10-19-2017, 08:42
The ultimate goal of these laws is to get Republican and Libertarian gun owners to say "fuck it I'm moving to Idaho", thus bluing the state a little bit more.
We're planning on doing just that - voting with our feet and taking our taxes to Idaho. The outlook here is grim. I'm not going to remain here and be like the CA gun owners who say they're "fighting the good fight" against all odds. Call me defeatist if you want.
And our reason for leaving is not all about the gun laws, of course. There's a list of reasons.
We're planning on doing just that - voting with our feet and taking our taxes to Idaho. The outlook here is grim. I'm not going to remain here and be like the CA gun owners who say they're "fighting the good fight" against all odds. Call me defeatist if you want.
And our reason for leaving is not all about the gun laws, of course. There's a list of reasons.
+1; just a matter of time for us as well.
Zundfolge
10-19-2017, 09:03
We're planning on doing just that - voting with our feet and taking our taxes to Idaho. The outlook here is grim. I'm not going to remain here and be like the CA gun owners who say they're "fighting the good fight" against all odds. Call me defeatist if you want.
And our reason for leaving is not all about the gun laws, of course. There's a list of reasons.
I was going to come here and give you a hard time and call you a quitter but I'm busy looking at real estate in the Rapid City area.
I was going to come here and give you a hard time and call you a quitter but I'm busy looking at real estate in the Rapid City area.
I was looking at Rapid City. Housing costs are not drastically lower and the only real IT job I could find at the time was for Strider sports (the little kid bike company). They wanted a generalist (SQL DB, Network, and Sys admin w/ experience etc.). Salary? 20-24 dollars/hr. I laughed.
I was looking at Rapid City. Housing costs are not drastically lower and the only real IT job I could find at the time was for Strider sports (the little kid bike company). They wanted a generalist (SQL DB, Network, and Sys admin w/ experience etc.). Salary? 20-24 dollars/hr. I laughed.
Do what the Commiefornians did...
Sell your house with a ton of equity. Move. Buy new house for cash and have a similar lifestyle with less cost requiring less income. Less income also means less taxes.
Or invest it and let it help supplement a lower salary. Buy a rental property (again, for cash) and cash flow $800-1K/month.
I know we're all different, but I put a $2K check in the mail each month for my mortgage (extra principal payment, the required is much lower than that). So not having that mortgage means I could make $24K less each year. But the cost of making that $24K is much higher than $24K. Figure taxes and such and I probably need to make around $30K to bring home $24K net to pay housing. So I could do without $30,000 in salary if I had a paid off house.
Can you tell I have the same thoughts as some of you?
Zundfolge
10-19-2017, 09:50
I was looking at Rapid City. Housing costs are not drastically lower and the only real IT job I could find at the time was for Strider sports (the little kid bike company). They wanted a generalist (SQL DB, Network, and Sys admin w/ experience etc.). Salary? 20-24 dollars/hr. I laughed.
According to here, Rapid City is cheaper than Colorado Springs, and housing is 21% cheaper there
http://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/colorado-springs-co/rapid-city-sd/50000
4% cheaper with a reduction in wages on the order of almost 50% leads to a contextually more expensive place to live.
Zundfolge
10-19-2017, 09:57
Ah, 20-24/hr is almost 50% pay cut ... no wonder they're outsourcing so much of it to India :p
My job is not able to be outsourced. Nor is the one Strider was advertising.
My first job, though in the Littleton area, I started at 19/hr on a help desk. Strider was asking for a person with experience in multiple disciplines. If entry level in just one, ok, I get it... but a multiple-hats wearing mid-level engineer for 20-24/hr? That bike won't pedal.
My job is not able to be outsourced. Nor is the one Strider was advertising.
My first job, though in the Littleton area, I started at 19/hr on a help desk. Strider was asking for a person with experience in multiple disciplines. If entry level in just one, ok, I get it... but a multiple-hats wearing mid-level engineer for 20-24/hr? That bike won't pedal.
We pay our interns more than that. I have no idea how they even think they'll fill that position.
We pay our interns more than that. I have no idea how they even think they'll fill that position.
Most jobs in Rapid City are minimum wage according to the research my wife did. I'd gander that there's some poor schmuck who would jump at the chance.
They just reposted it.
Here's the ad:
IT Operations Specialist
Strider Sports International, Inc.,
Rapid City, SD
Posted 11 hours ago
data report, query development, scripting, windows + linux, EDI
Full Time
$20.19 - $24.04
Telecommuting not available Travel required to 10%.
Job Description
Are you looking for a new career? Do you have a passion for outdoor sports, adventure, bicycles or motorcycles? It is time to align your passion with your career!
Strider Sports International, Inc, is the company behind the industry leading, Strider Balance Bike for toddlers, children, and adults. Headquartered in Rapid City, SD, this global company is rapidly expanding and is seeking to add team members who want to live and work in the amazing Black Hills. Strider values a family-friendly workplace where the workdays fly by and the work itself feels like a grand adventure!
Strider needs an IT Operations Specialist with a rich technical skillset. We are looking for a hands-on, solution-oriented individual who is happy to dive in and tackle projects that help the entire staff do their jobs more efficiently. These tasks might range from IT and network security to integrating and debugging third party software to scripting and automation.
An example workday at Strider might start with assisting another staff member to fix email on their mobile phone, or resetting a forgotten password. This might be followed by an hour of debugging a complicated SQL query required to get the right order status out of our system and then spending the rest of the morning debugging and fixing an intermittent WiFi issue. After lunch, you might attend a meeting with the logistics manager to create a variety of reports for them based on historical sales data. After building the first of these reports, you might get an email notification about a failing backup that needs to be investigated and fixed. All of that is no big deal though, because tomorrow you finally get to migrate the primary domain controller to a new server.
If this wide range of responsibilities sounds like FUN, submit your resume today!
Summary:
This position combines solid technical skills with a strong desire to understand SSIs operating systems and to provide superior internal customer service. This position will be responsible for managing all aspects of Strider Sports Intl, Inc (SSI) IT network and for providing technical and educational support to all users of SSIs network and peripherals.
All interested applicants will possess experience with or knowledge of a combination of several of the following:
•Data report and query development
•Scripting experience (SQL is a huge bonus, or PowerShell/XSLT/Other)
•Ability to manage a Windows+Linux environment
•Experience with EDI or product fulfillment software
•Experience building/deploying/managing networks and related services. (Cabling, Firewalls, WiFi, VPNs, DMZs
•Full-Stack Experience managing Windows domains and services for workstations/mobile devices
Beneficial Qualifications:
•Thriving in a fast-paced, ever-changing environment
•Being committed to an active lifestyle and exercise
Physical Demands:
•Must be able to lift, carry, and move items up to 30 lbs
•Must be able to sit or stand for extended periods of time using a phone, computer keyboard and monitor
•Must be able to travel freely throughout the US and willing to occasionally assist after hour/weekend events
Location and hours:
•This position is in Rapid City, SD
•Regular Office hours are Mon-Fri 8 am to 5 pm
•Some travel and occasional support of weekend events should be anticipated
https://www.dice.com/jobs/detail/IT-Operations-Specialist-Strider-Sports-International%2C-Inc.-Rapid-City-SD-57702/RTX1c3a8c/5161174?icid=sr1-1p&q=&l=Rapid City, SD
As I said, I lol'ed.
Aloha_Shooter
10-19-2017, 11:45
Undocumented guns and transfers not workers IMO!
To Mogadishu?
I stay away from that part of town. I figured I'd go all in and have Al Franken as my senator. In all seriousness way better than Colorado.
I also lol'd
I think that could be an outlier. Seems to be saying "be our IT dept for $24.04/hour." Not sure they would want the candidate who applies.
$24.04 is so specific, I'm curious where they got that number in the first place.
I'd totally apply if they let me skip around on one of their strider bikes in a G-man suit and mirrored Ray-Ban sunglasses, from desk to desk, while drinking PBR from a camelbak. Cus that's the only way I would be able to stomach getting paid 24 bucks/hr to do at least 3 people's jobs.
24.04*2080=50,003.20; maybe so they can call it a $50k position? even one cent less an hour throws it into 49k.
Zundfolge
10-19-2017, 13:55
I'd totally apply if they let me skip around on one of their strider bikes in a G-man suit and mirrored Ray-Ban sunglasses, from desk to desk, while drinking PBR from a camelbak. Cus that's the only way I would be able to stomach getting paid 24 bucks/hr to do at least 3 people's jobs.
Well you should look at Idaho then COL in Boise is about the same as Rapid City but I bet there's mo betta IT work there.
Bailey Guns
10-19-2017, 14:39
We're planning on doing just that - voting with our feet and taking our taxes to Idaho. The outlook here is grim. I'm not going to remain here and be like the CA gun owners who say they're "fighting the good fight" against all odds. Call me defeatist if you want.
And our reason for leaving is not all about the gun laws, of course. There's a list of reasons.
Oh, yeah. I heard it all...mostly from one individual that is no longer active on the forum. What a loser for not "staying to fight". "Fight"? With what? Platitudes?
I guess if you call a far better overall financial situation, including prospects for an earlier retirement, and a generally better overall quality of life being a "loser", then we're "losers".
Oh, yeah. I heard it all...mostly from one individual that is no longer active on the forum. What a loser for not "staying to fight". "Fight"? With what? Platitudes?
I guess if you call a far better overall financial situation, including prospects for an earlier retirement, and a generally better overall quality of life being a "loser", then we're "losers".
Everyone has to make their own decision. Add to that the idea of fighting for people who oppose you. There's a lot to be said about living with like-minded people who understand each other.
The only time such a decision pissed me off was when a high profile gun site announced they were going to fight NY SAFE Act, took money for their fight, and then ran to Texas.
OtterbatHellcat
10-19-2017, 16:24
And our reason for leaving is not all about the gun laws, of course. There's a list of reasons.
This is where I'm at......sell now and get the money while it's high. I've got a line on super cheap living ($300 mth. plus splitting the bills) and stay here with my job until the housing bubble pops. (@ 1 year of that, it's 25 G in the bank) If I leave sooner, I'll just rent somewhere down there and wait for the market to pop, or jump on the "perfect property" for me if it presents itself.
Bailey Guns
10-19-2017, 17:08
Everyone has to make their own decision. Add to that the idea of fighting for people who oppose you. There's a lot to be said about living with like-minded people who understand each other.
The only time such a decision pissed me off was when a high profile gun site announced they were going to fight NY SAFE Act, took money for their fight, and then ran to Texas.
Well, no one gave me any money to come here. I will accept donations, however.
[Coffee]
Well, no one gave me any money to come here. I will accept donations, however.
[Coffee]
I thought once somebody made it to safety, they were supposed to help those left behind. [fail]
[Coffee]
GilpinGuy
10-19-2017, 17:59
I was going to come here and give you a hard time and call you a quitter but I'm busy looking at real estate in the Rapid City area.
I wasn't calling you out personally. It was a general statement.
It looks like we can sell our place here and buy one for cash. Pooof! No mortgage opens up lots of opportunities for us as far as home schooling the kiddos, actually persuing something we enjoy for income instead of what makes the most ching and a better quality of life in general. Seems like a no brainer to me .
68Charger
10-19-2017, 23:17
Do what the Commiefornians did...
Sell your house with a ton of equity. Move. Buy new house for cash and have a similar lifestyle with less cost requiring less income. Less income also means less taxes.
Or invest it and let it help supplement a lower salary. Buy a rental property (again, for cash) and cash flow $800-1K/month.
I know we're all different, but I put a $2K check in the mail each month for my mortgage (extra principal payment, the required is much lower than that). So not having that mortgage means I could make $24K less each year. But the cost of making that $24K is much higher than $24K. Figure taxes and such and I probably need to make around $30K to bring home $24K net to pay housing. So I could do without $30,000 in salary if I had a paid off house.
Can you tell I have the same thoughts as some of you?
This was also one of my reasons for relocating to TX... sold house in Penrose for about $420k, bought property with 3 houses for $296k, after applying equity and spending money to renovate one of the homes, my mortgage will be down to $80k. Keep making higher payments like its still a $280k loan, and it will be gone quick... after renovating one of the houses, I can rent it out for $800-1000 per month... or just get $100-120 per night on First Monday weekend... even more if we setup as BnB. I'm even going to diversify by investing in cattle (partially for ag property tax break).
I thought once somebody made it to safety, they were supposed to help those left behind. [fail]
[Coffee]
Put your own mask on first, then help others.
This was also one of my reasons for relocating to TX... sold house in Penrose for about $420k, bought property with 3 houses for $296k, after applying equity and spending money to renovate one of the homes, my mortgage will be down to $80k. Keep making higher payments like its still a $280k loan, and it will be gone quick... after renovating one of the houses, I can rent it out for $800-1000 per month... or just get $100-120 per night on First Monday weekend... even more if we setup as BnB. I'm even going to diversify by investing in cattle (partially for ag property tax break).
That's smart. $80K in debt, land with livestock, and opportunity to cash flow on some of that property. Sounds great to me!
vectorsc
10-20-2017, 10:37
Shit I'm reading this from Boise, ID and I can't say I mind at all. On my way back to CO to fuckin pack my house up and sell everything not critical.
Zundfolge
10-20-2017, 10:57
Shit I'm reading this from Boise, ID and I can't say I mind at all. On my way back to CO to fuckin pack my house up and sell everything not critical.
Before we moved to Colorado, we looked at Boise. It seems like a nice town and I had several job offers, but we didn't want to have to drive back to Wichita from there once or twice a year so we didn't move there (and then a couple months after I turned down the jobs, the Dot.Com bubble burst and two of the three companies I had offers from disappeared overnight and the survivor did some major downsizing so it worked out for the best). I figure my mom only has a couple years left (and my wife has finally cut off her dysfunctional family) so we may reconsider in a couple years since we'll have much less cause to drive back to ICT.
vectorsc
10-20-2017, 12:13
There are probably more Nazis here than liberals, both of whom occupy an extremely small minority niche. Everyone else is Mormon or Conservative. And I think I like the Nazis more than the Liberals.
A Nazi is pretty much just a Liberal that hates Jews, and the Nazis are at least honest about their beliefs. more importantly the Nazis aren't even close to winning the war on my way of life. Both of them are completely smug assholes who believe in massive transformation of the USA into their own particular dystopian future and the utter inferiority of all other viewpoints. Complete with a splash of bigoted mass murder thrown in for kicks.
Hell, they both want me dead as a Romanian with strong Jewish family ties who happens to believe in freedom and the sanctity of the machine our founding fathers created. But at least the Nazis are up front about their evil ways.
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