Hunting Elk and Deer Calibers

[KevDen2005]

Right now I am using .308

Wanted to know what caliber everyone hunted Elk and Deer with and why they prefer that caliber.

[encorehunter]

I use a .25-06. It's fast, light and low recoil. It has worked well for me over the last 15 years. I have taken deer, elk, bear and pronghorn with it.

[rustycrusty]

I think it’s a distance call.

Where I hunt, max distance shot will be 100yd. Lots of hiking involved. For this, I choose the lightest possible setup. That’s a lightweight AR pistol, or handy rifle w/ red dot in 300blk or similar caliber (7.62x39, 30-30)

If I were stretching beyond 100yd, then I would move to 308 and get the leanest lightest gun there. I don’t trust myself to make repeatable shots from an unsupported position on a moving target past 300yd. For this reason, other larger calibers are pointless for me.

Also, with bullet technology pushing terminal ballistics, I would say that the Fudd calibers are just unnecessary.

30.06 is a shitty grouping caliber, and the ‘power’ is unnecessary for any North American game that is within my comfort distances.

I’ve not tried any of the exotics, but I hear that 6.5 Grendel and Creedmore do the job of ultra distance hunting better than any others.

I will remain too poor to find out.


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[MarkCO]

I have hunted elk with about a dozen calibers from .243Win to .340 Weatherby as well as some larger diameter calibers like 10mm Auto, .41 Mag, .414 SuperMag and .444Marlin. Where you hunt, how you hunt and what you hunt really serves to limit or extend the distances. I like to have 3x body mass in energy or maintain a velocity over 2200 fps with an appropriate bullet and placement. The .338-06 is my favorite for elk and I can go with a .243Win or .260Rem for Deer and Pronghorn (but any of the 6mm and 6.5mms that have a MV of 2700 fps plus would be about equivalent).

For every "its perfect" you will have someone say it is "overkill" or "unethical." IMHO, I would rather have a .308 for elk than a 6mm or 6.5mm. Out to maybe 350 yards on a good presentation and enough practice under your belt, the .308 is fine. For a less optimum presentation, you have to start passing on the shot, or have a better suited caliber. At 50 years old and hunting elk since I was 13, most of mine (about 40) have been shot with .30-06 (to 420 yards most closer) and .338-06 (to 505 yards) and I have seen about 200 shot in addition to that. Most of the failures are poor presentations with calibers in the 6mm to 7mm range, probably more with 7m Rem Mag than anything else. No caliber is a wonder caliber for elk. Too much meat damage on poor shots to pass throughs without expansion, lack of practice are all factors. Deer and Pronghorn, even bear, are much less sturdy than elk and easier to kill. I'll use .223 (not in CO of course) to .30-06 for deer and having shot 60+ have never had one go more than a 100 yards. Not the same with elk.

There is nothing at all wrong with the .308 or .30-06 based calibers (and the .30-06 is plenty accurate regardless of rustycrustys opinion of it) inside 200-500 yards depending on specifics. You just need to decide what you want more than .308 for and then decide on a good load and practice. Both of my teenage boys started with .308 and now use .30-06 for elk, .243s for deer and pronghorn.

I will say that the vast majority of "caliber" accuracy and failure issues are because most hunters don't practice enough to be skilled riflemen and they don't know their ballistics.

[rustycrusty]

No way, Mark.

30.06 is the least accurate, least effective caliber ever made. Invented by the allied forces in 1930 to be issued to cowards, and the French. It is still the preferred hunting caliber of Joe Biden and the entire Chinese communist party.

It doesn’t have to be factually correct... if it feels right.


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[KevDen2005]

No way, Mark.

30.06 is the least accurate, least effective caliber ever made. Invented by the allied forces in 1930 to be issued to cowards, and the French. It is still the preferred hunting caliber of Joe Biden and the entire Chinese communist party.

It doesn’t have to be factually correct... if it feels right.


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That escalated really quickly

[sniper7]

I use 300 win mag.
Works wonders

[buffalobo]

Mulies- 30-30 Winchester, because tradition and I typically hunt them in heavy tall brush.

Speed goats - .243, my first and still favorite bolt gun, I shoot it well.

Elk, bear - 30-06, despite crustyrusty's issues with it, I've never had any accuracy issues with the round. Has put several thousand pounds of meat in the freezer.

With the recent acquisition of bolt gun in .308 suitable for hunting I will probably use it for some big game trips depending on final weight.

If you're unarmed you are a victim

[KevDen2005]

I'm looking for lightweight for sure and something suitable for both Elk and Deer as I usually have a tag for both at the same time. Carrying two rifles would not be fun I think.

I know a lot of guys hunt Deer with 7.62 x 39 and Rusty does make it look cool with his .300 BLK

[buffalobo]

At the end of the day, 30 cal bullets, sling em as you like.[AR15]

[KevDen2005]

At the end of the day, 30 cal bullets, sling em as you like.[AR15]

Seems to be what I'm reading.

[00tec]

I'd let you borrow my Rem 700 308 for the task, but I doubt you would want to lug it around.

I've shot deer with .257 Roberts and .357 mag, but it's been a while.

[chuckchili]

I use 300 win mag.
Works wonders

^ This is my opinion as well. Good for everything

[KevDen2005]

I'd let you borrow my Rem 700 308 for the task, but I doubt you would want to lug it around.

I've shot deer with .257 Roberts and .357 mag, but it's been a while.

The Rem 700 is what I'm using now and I hate lugging it around.

[sampson]

Fudd caliber 30-06. Mostly because of tradition.
They wake up dead.

300 blackout sounds interesting though.

[bobbyfairbanks]

30.06 is a shitty grouping caliber, and the ‘power’ is unnecessary for any North American game that is within my comfort distances.



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What are you smoking 30/06 can group very well. Anything can group well if you can shoot and the gun is assembled properly blah blah. You must be smoking something good to make that comment

[Hoser]

Bullet construction and placement trump bullet diameter every day.

I killed my last Elk with a 6.5mm 130gn bonded core bullet. The bullet broke both shoulders after going about 330 yards.

[zimagold]

I agree with Hoser and only use premium bonded or monolithic bullets for hunting these days.

Having moved here in 2014, I have minimal elk experience, but have taken dozens of deer with 223Rem to 30-06 in the last 20 years. I look for good penetration (2 holes) even on off angle shots and minimal fragmentation to avoid damaging meat. I use a 270Win with Barnes LRX if hunting both deer/elk and hiking a lot. 270Win is about my recoil limit for accurate improvised shooting in a traditional lightweight rifle (<8 lbs w/ accessories). For open areas I have a 7 Rem Mag. I've been told my 7 Rem Mag is a terrible choice for Elk by a lot of hunters. Normally they have some story that boils down to use of a light weight BT/Vmax/SP that failed to penetrate at close range or just terrible shot placement. The 7RM is suppressed and is significantly easier to shoot long, but is heavier at about 9.5lbs and is long in the brush/deadfall.

The 2 Bull Elk shot by my hunting group this year were taken with a 300 Win Mag and 338 Win Mag. The one was shot 4 times and the other 3 times. The number of shots was not due to poor caliber/bullet performance but just plain terrible shooting by 2 out of state friends that were visiting this year. Both animals had a single hit in the vitals. I suspect both hunters will return back east and probably tell everyone that you need atleast a 300WM for elk as the animals just wouldn't go down.

I have offered a site in day for my office the last 3 years and set steel at various distances in the Pawnee. It generally opens peoples eyes when you take away the lead sled and bench. I've seen several high power scopes and magnums be replaced.

Edit: 7RM is loaded with 160gr Accubonds at 2950fps

[rustycrusty]

Here’s the full ‘why’ behind my distaste for 30.06.

Off the bat I will say that if you own a rifle chambered in 30.06, you will do just fine.

I will follow that by saying that if you don’t own a rifle yet- DON’T buy one in 30.06

30.06 has a MPBR of somewhere between 250 and 300yd depending on load. Same as 308, but 308 tends to perform just a bit better in precision, partially due to case and partially due to slightly reduced recoil.

Both are available everywhere, but 308 match grade ammo is a commercially available thing, whereas 30.06 match ammo is not (at least on the shelves of my sporting good store).

Action length-
It’s just easier to cycle a short action bolt... not much of an advantage, but it counts.

Weight-
There is a wide verity of lightweight 308 rifles. Slimmer pickings for 30.06

Rifle verity:
You can buy a 308 in just about any form factor a rifle comes in. Not so for the 30.06.

Cost:
You can shoot at 30¢ per trigger pull with 308.
You are lucky to shoot below 50¢ per trigger pull with 30-06. Lots of. Heap practice gets you shot placement. No caliber will allow crappy shot placement.

If you feel like 308 doesn’t offer enough power, you might as well step it up to 300win mag or similar that offers further mpbr and better dope adjusted shooting experiences than either 308 or 30.06.


Also... Joe Biden


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[KevDen2005]

Here’s the full ‘why’ behind my distaste for 30.06.

Off the bat I will say that if you own a rifle chambered in 30.06, you will do just fine.

I will follow that by saying that if you don’t own a rifle yet- DON’T buy one in 30.06

30.06 has a MPBR of somewhere between 250 and 300yd depending on load. Same as 308, but 308 tends to perform just a bit better in precision, partially due to case and partially due to slightly reduced recoil.

Both are available everywhere, but 308 match grade ammo is a commercially available thing, whereas 30.06 match ammo is not (at least on the shelves of my sporting good store).

Action length-
It’s just easier to cycle a short action bolt... not much of an advantage, but it counts.

Weight-
There is a wide verity of lightweight 308 rifles. Slimmer pickings for 30.06

Rifle verity:
You can buy a 308 in just about any form factor a rifle comes in. Not so for the 30.06.

Cost:
You can shoot at 30¢ per trigger pull with 308.
You are lucky to shoot below 50¢ per trigger pull with 30-06. Lots of. Heap practice gets you shot placement. No caliber will allow crappy shot placement.

If you feel like 308 doesn’t offer enough power, you might as well step it up to 300win mag or similar that offers further mpbr and better dope adjusted shooting experiences than either 308 or 30.06.


Also... Joe Biden


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Joe Biden is enough to keep me away from it. Except I own an M1 Garand. I don't plan on lugging that up and down mountains in the snow.

[sampson]

Eh I'm not gonna let Joe Biden influence my caliber choice. I like the other points made though.

[CO Hugh]

I have a 270 WBY and no problem for Elk, I don't think a regular 270 Win is bad either. I have seen and used 30-06 and 308s for them. Bullet construction is probably the most critical. I am partial to barnes bullets.

[Shooter45]

I believe firmly in ethical hunting and fast kills. The worst thing I see and continue to see is wounded animals. It happens, but people take shots they shouldn't at distances they shouldn't and/or use a caliber/projectile that is not built for elk. I've hunted elk since I was 14 and started with a 30.06. When I was 15 I moved up to a 338 Win Mag that I am very comfortable with out to 500yds for a hunting shot. I use a 200 gr. Barnes X Bullet that does wonders on elk. I knocks them down hard and fast. Guys use a 243 and yes it's legal I just don't believe it's sustainable for an ethical kill. However, it depends on your ranges.
Most often where I hunt you can glass out to a mile so you need to be capable with further shots. I think anything from a 270 up is good for elk with a well constructed bullet that is bonded or known to hold together. HITS count the most over everything else. 338 is big for deer but I would use it if I had a combo tag.

[TheBelly]

Bullet performance and where it pokes the hole in the beast are all you need to think about.

I took my last deer with a 155 gr solid going 2800fps from my little .308. It DRT’d that deer from about 290 yds.

[buckshotbarlow]

you guys have this all wrong...minimum caliber regs say 50bmg, optimal is a 20mm...

[Bailey Guns]

No way, Mark.

30.06 is the least accurate, least effective caliber ever made. Invented by the allied forces in 1930 to be issued to cowards, and the French. It is still the preferred hunting caliber of Joe Biden and the entire Chinese communist party.

It doesn’t have to be factually correct... if it feels right.

I somehow get the impression you actually believe all that...

[spqrzilla]

I've been using a .300 WSM in a Tikka T3 for awhile now. Mostly because I like the ballistics at the longer ranges which are possible in the areas I usually hunt. I would be tempted to replace it with a 6.5 cartridge as I like the bullets in 6.5 a lot but this little Tikka is extraordinarily accurate and does not lose zero.

[00tec]

you guys have this all wrong...minimum caliber regs say 50bmg, optimal is a 20mm...

You saying I need to finish my 1.75" cannon? It's smoothbore though, gotta figure out a way to get accuracy up to minute of elk.

[Lars]

The perfect caliber has a lot to with with what you can shoot comfortably. It doesn't do any good to shoot a .300 win mag or .338 if you always flinch and don't hit where you are aiming. Shot placement is more important than a .284 vs. .308 dia projectile. I have used everything from my .257 weatherby, 7mm rem mag, .270 weatherby, .300 weatherby and my 30-378 to take elk with. The common factor between all these rifles is the bullet, I shoot nosler accubond in every one of these. Bullet chose in relation to the game being taken is paramount.

[Shooter45]

I've got a FN SPR in 300 WSM that I plan on using for antelope in December. I'm shooting a 178gr Amax with 64gr of IMR 4350 at a muzzle velocity of 3081. I've got high hopes for it but really want to see how the Amax really reacts on soft targets.

[whitewalrus]

I typically use a 308 for Elk, deer, pronghorn. Makes life a lot simpler I think to pick one caliber and stick with it. I don't take shots over 300 yards at animals so I never really seen the need for a magnum. But I have seen people shooting at geese that are flying higher than 300 yards....

Shot placement/distance is a big thing and you need to think of if you could pass on a less than acceptable shot or would take it anyway.

[buckshotbarlow]

I typically use a 308 for Elk, deer, pronghorn. Makes life a lot simpler I think to pick one caliber and stick with it. I don't take shots over 300 yards at animals so I never really seen the need for a magnum. But I have seen people shooting at geese that are flying higher than 300 yards....

Shot placement/distance is a big thing and you need to think of if you could pass on a less than acceptable shot or would take it anyway.

you must goose hunt by 287 and highway 52...it hink some of those folks believe their 12ga's are AAA.

[whitewalrus]

you must goose hunt by 287 and highway 52...it hink some of those folks believe their 12ga's are AAA.

Was on public land, and a couple different SWA's. I won't hunt public for geese anymore.

[Sawin]

I carry a Kimber 84M Montana in .308 (SUPER LIGHT WEIGHT, check them out!!) for Elk, Deer, and Pronghorn and use the 150gr Barnes TTSX bullets for all 3.
You just have to be careful with over penetration on pronghorn with those bullets, so I have a weaker load for them and never shoot at animals that are stacked up next to each other. The Barnes bullets are solid copper and keep 100% of their mass, so allow you to use the smaller bullets, providing less felt recoil and flatter trajectories than the 168 or 175gr options out there...
Just my two cents.

[TriggerHappy]

I'm looking for lightweight for sure and something suitable for both Elk and Deer as I usually have a tag for both at the same time. Carrying two rifles would not be fun I think.

I know a lot of guys hunt Deer with 7.62 x 39 and Rusty does make it look cool with his .300 BLK

I have a Kimber mountain ascent, 5.5lbs, plus scope and suppressor. 30-06, works for both elk and deer and s a gem to carry around.

Its all about placement and that you're not anticipating the recoil. Shoot what you are comfortable with. There is no perfect caliber and the "ethical" kill distance is up to the one behind the rifle.

[buckshotbarlow]

Well, my 50bmg and 20mm projects got defunded...didn't win power ball, so it's on to the 6.5saum...take a look if you want, it's a zapper!