View Full Version : Shooting in Thornton at Walmart?
seeing live footage on Facebook at the moment..
Sorry was on phone, could not provide a link.
encorehunter
11-01-2017, 19:11
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://amp.thedenverchannel.com/2388397286/multiple-victims-in-shooting-at-thornton-walmart.html&ved=0ahUKEwiYy4fB2p7XAhWkx4MKHZIsAOQQyM8BCCAwAA&usg=AOvVaw1QF3Vdl74REhQlaa88rH4U&cf=1
I hope everyone up north is safe.
encorehunter
11-01-2017, 19:12
Deagler posted. Please delete
At least you have a link for more info. Maybe combine the threads?
BushMasterBoy
11-01-2017, 19:27
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvx9RK3wXQA
bellavite1
11-01-2017, 19:31
Ok, I am definetely an asshole:
Without taking anything away from the dramatic situation, and no disrespect for the potential victims, this is the first image that came to my mind:
A stampede of obese Wal-Mart shoppers on mobility Wal-Mart scooters, fleeing the scene in slow motion...
Then we heard a report of a guy hiding in a Rubbermaid box ( a very tiny guy, I suppose).
That's when we just about lost it...
Holey Moley. Watching the live link above, is there anybody left for emergency services elsewhere in the city?
BPTactical
11-01-2017, 20:32
All good here.
I'm gonna guess domestic or gang.
encorehunter
11-01-2017, 20:34
http://www.kgw.com/mobile/article/news/crime/2-dead-1-injured-after-shooting-at-thornton-walmart-police/73-488159023
Looks like two dead one injured. No active shooter.
Madeinhb
11-01-2017, 20:35
All good here.
I'm gonna guess domestic or gang.
I'm not far from you and all good here too.
BPTactical
11-01-2017, 20:55
I'm not far from you and all good here too.
[word]
Great. Now I have to carry when I go grocery shopping.
(I avoid that particular Walmart like the plague. It might make me racist but I refer to that store as the "Mexican Walmart" and since I don't speak a lick of Spanish I just prefer to shop elsewhere.)
BPTactical
11-01-2017, 21:41
Shit Ray, that ain't nuthin - go to the Home Depot there on a Saturday morning.......Aye Carumba....
Nope. I'll drive up to the one on highway 7 or go to Broomfield.
Great. Now I have to carry when I go grocery shopping.
(I avoid that particular Walmart like the plague. It might make me racist but I refer to that store as the "Mexican Walmart" and since I don't speak a lick of Spanish I just prefer to shop elsewhere.)
According to the wife, people on Facespace are pissed that it is continued to be referred to as the ghetto walmart.
First time I set foot in there, the day I moved to CO, a dude was standing at the door, drunk at noon, in sweatpants and a wife beater, piss all down the front, after attempting to relieve himself in the McDonald's drink station. He tried to grab a 60+ yr old woman, he was promptly shut down.
A few months later, I was assaulted by some form of hobbit for whispering to my wife "picture this dude saying weiners". Her man looked like a cross between Humpty Dumpty and Butterbean. She shoved the shopping cart into me with force at a fair distance. He approached, wanting a fight....
We starting going to the one on 128th after it was built.
theGinsue
11-01-2017, 22:04
http://www.kgw.com/mobile/article/news/crime/2-dead-1-injured-after-shooting-at-thornton-walmart-police/73-488159023
Looks like two dead one injured. No active shooter.
Interesting. I feel for the victims in this event.
I first heard about this incident through multiple headlines across the web, all stating "multiple bodies down". I'm once again disappointed by the misleading headlines from mass media. Because a dumbass used a firearm to harm others, the media has to play it up like it's a mass shooting. Just wow.
Great. Now I have to carry when I go grocery shopping.
(I avoid that particular Walmart like the plague. It might make me racist but I refer to that store as the "Mexican Walmart" and since I don't speak a lick of Spanish I just prefer to shop elsewhere.)I carry everywhere for this reason exactly.
Sent from my 2PQ93 using Tapatalk
kidicarus13
11-01-2017, 22:30
Conspiracy theories from COAR regulars involving the lack of informatoon about the shooting, the government and gun control starting in 3...2...1...
WalMart on West Colfax is kinda "special" too.
According to the wife, people on Facespace are pissed that it is continued to be referred to as the ghetto walmart.
First time I set foot in there, the day I moved to CO, a dude was standing at the door, drunk at noon, in sweatpants and a wife beater, piss all down the front, after attempting to relieve himself in the McDonald's drink station. He tried to grab a 60+ yr old woman, he was promptly shut down.
A few months later, I was assaulted by some form of hobbit for whispering to my wife "picture this dude saying weiners". He looked like a cross between Humpty Dumpty and Butterbean. She shoved the shopping cart into me with force at a fair distance. He approached, wanting a fight....
We starting going to the one on 128th after it was built.
WalMart on West Colfax is kinda "special" too.
We have certainly shared other fun times at this Walmart.
I agree...the new store on 128th is awesome. It is clean, organized, the people are not nearly as rude (but still are, lol), and I can go there and not want to hit people.
3 fatalities, suspect is still on the loose.
We have certainly shared other fun times at this Walmart.
I agree...the new store on 128th is awesome. It is clean, organized, the people are not nearly as rude (but still are, lol), and I can go there and not want to hit people.
According to the wife, people on Facespace are pissed that it is continued to be referred to as the ghetto walmart.
First time I set foot in there, the day I moved to CO, a dude was standing at the door, drunk at noon, in sweatpants and a wife beater, piss all down the front, after attempting to relieve himself in the McDonald's drink station. He tried to grab a 60+ yr old woman, he was promptly shut down.
A few months later, I was assaulted by some form of hobbit for whispering to my wife "picture this dude saying weiners". He looked like a cross between Humpty Dumpty and Butterbean. She shoved the shopping cart into me with force at a fair distance. He approached, wanting a fight....
We starting going to the one on 128th after it was built.
Main walmart I go to is 128th and Quebec. That walmart is nicer than Target/Wholefoods/Sprout. They even have security guy at the front entrance too.
The Walmart near Interlocken (near Flatiron) is quiet, but it is just too far for me. 136th and I-25 in Westminter and 121st walmart at Broomfield is fairly decent as well.
As for Optometrist , I goto Brighton Walmart at Bromley Lane.
BushMasterBoy
11-01-2017, 23:53
72424
KevDen2005
11-02-2017, 05:29
Main walmart I go to is 128th and Quebec. That walmart is nicer than Target/Wholefoods/Sprout. They even have security guy at the front entrance too.
The Walmart near Interlocken (near Flatiron) is quiet, but it is just too far for me. 136th and I-25 in Westminter and 121st walmart at Broomfield is fairly decent as well.
As for Optometrist , I goto Brighton Walmart at Bromley Lane.
The Brighton one sucks too.
Since the Walmart on 88th and the one on Grant started closing by midnight a lot of the weridos have been moving up to the 128th and Quebec location.
Really not sure why the ATF are interjecting themselves into a local matter.
Sent from my 2PQ93 using Tapatalk
Reading a 9news article this morning and read this:
A professional photographer who happened to be at the Walmart shortly after the shooting reached out to 9NEWS and gave us permission to publish his photos. All images are courtesy Keal Vigil:
Just odd to me for some reason. I guess I dont see why we need to see "professional" photos of a tragedy and why that would be their first thought? I guess photographers mindset is to capture moments but after a shooting? Watching the live feed last night and the reporter was interviewing someone that was there and was having a hard time with it. Reporter asked "You seem to really be struggling with this...did you see any bodies?". Wtf? I would have told that guy to eff off I think.
Ok, I am definetely an asshole:
Without taking anything away from the dramatic situation, and no disrespect for the potential victims, this is the first image that came to my mind:
A stampede of obese Wal-Mart shoppers on mobility Wal-Mart scooters, fleeing the scene in slow motion...
Then we heard a report of a guy hiding in a Rubbermaid box ( a very tiny guy, I suppose).
That's when we just about lost it...
I have no words. Your caveat is not sufficient.
I get the need for a sense of humor in the face of tragedy...but I find nothing funny here.
BushMasterBoy
11-02-2017, 07:49
We are looking for Scott Ostrem age 47. Drives a burgundy red Mitsubishi Mirage.
https://heavy.com/news/2017/11/scott-ostrem-colorado-walmart-shooting-suspect/
GilpinGuy
11-02-2017, 07:53
Read this this morning here: link (http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/this-is-really-happening-witnesses-describe-the-chaos-inside-thornton-walmart)
Joleen Sarno was waiting to hear from her daughter, who works in the store, and she said she wasn’t really thinking about the recent shootings in New York or Las Vegas.
[facepalm][fail]
The only recent shooting I've heard of in NY was the shooting of a terrorist. A good thing in my book. Maybe I missed something?
Crap, there's something going down on the news right now of the police chasing a red Mirage by the shooter's apartment.
Read this this morning here: link (http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/this-is-really-happening-witnesses-describe-the-chaos-inside-thornton-walmart)
[facepalm][fail]
The only recent shooting I've heard of in NY was the shooting of a terrorist. A good thing in my book. Maybe I missed something?
The truck murders in NY were widely reported as shootings b/c the muzzie was toting 2 bb gun pistols (IIRC) when he exited the vehicle.
They caught the shooter, who was driving by his apartment while SWAT was all over the area. They took him into custody.
GilpinGuy
11-02-2017, 08:08
The truck murders in NY were widely reported as shootings b/c the muzzie was toting 2 bb gun pistols (IIRC) when he exited the vehicle.
Yeah, I know. Gigantic fail. BB guns and toy guns for f*cks sake. Give me a break.
They caught the shooter, who was driving by his apartment while SWAT was all over the area. They took him into custody.
Glad they caught the mutt.
kidicarus13
11-02-2017, 08:15
Ok, I am definetely an asshole:
Without taking anything away from the dramatic situation, and no disrespect for the potential victims, this is the first image that came to my mind:
A stampede of obese Wal-Mart shoppers on mobility Wal-Mart scooters, fleeing the scene in slow motion...
Then we heard a report of a guy hiding in a Rubbermaid box ( a very tiny guy, I suppose).
That's when we just about lost it...
Read your post, found corresponding photo this morning... 72425
GilpinGuy
11-02-2017, 08:53
And yet another scumbag gets to leach off of society for decades to come.
Was just reported as arrested.
Great-Kazoo
11-02-2017, 09:00
Yeah, I know. Gigantic fail. BB guns and toy guns for f*cks sake. Give me a break.
BB guns and toy ones all fall under a GUN USED IN CRIME / KILLING By the VPC and other bloomberg acolytes for boosting stats
GilpinGuy
11-02-2017, 09:02
BB guns and toy ones all fall under a GUN USED IN CRIME / KILLING By the VPC and other bloomberg acolytes for boosting stats
Of course. Soon pop tarts bitten into the shape of guns by 5 year olds will too.
Read your post, found corresponding photo this morning... 72425
[ROFL2]
bellavite1
11-02-2017, 12:27
Read your post, found corresponding photo this morning... 72425
[Awesom]
This must somehow made it to national news.
Zundfolge
11-02-2017, 15:59
as per usual, heavy is on the case http://heavy.com/news/2017/11/scott-ostrem-colorado-walmart-shooting-suspect/
Shooter is a white male registered Republican who was bankrupt ... his three victims are Latinos ... I guarantee you this will be spun into "White Trump Supporter Kills Latinos in Hate Crime"
I don't think I knew about heavy.com before this thread. Great site!
vectorsc
11-02-2017, 16:28
Odd note from the heavy article : police were reviewing the footage and had an issue identifying the shooter because of the number of people who whipped out guns. Way to go Thornton!!
Great-Kazoo
11-02-2017, 16:56
as per usual, heavy is on the case http://heavy.com/news/2017/11/scott-ostrem-colorado-walmart-shooting-suspect/
Shooter is a white male registered Republican who was bankrupt ... his three victims are Latinos ... I guarantee you this will be spun into "White Trump Supporter Kills Latinos in Hate Crime"
Yet Paddock's voter affiliation still remains unknown [pileoshit]
He must hate Christians as well, because there is a Christian store near there.
Just odd to me for some reason. I guess I dont see why we need to see "professional" photos of a tragedy and why that would be their first thought? I guess photographers mindset is to capture moments but after a shooting? Watching the live feed last night and the reporter was interviewing someone that was there and was having a hard time with it. Reporter asked "You seem to really be struggling with this...did you see any bodies?". Wtf? I would have told that guy to eff off I think.
He was in the middle of it at Walmart. He also had video from inside the store when the shooting was going on. He was just living his life and then stupid started.
...a registered Republican who didn’t vote.
Like the wind is out of the North at zero miles per hour. Direction, but no movement. What does this imply?
This must somehow made it to national news.
Must have been national news last night. My brother was texting me about it from Las Vegas about 11:30 last night.
Yeah, I know. Gigantic fail. BB guns and toy guns for f*cks sake. Give me a break.He couldn't afford a full priced jihad.
Sent from my 2PQ93 using Tapatalk
GilpinGuy
11-02-2017, 18:37
Yet Paddock's voter affiliation still remains unknown [pileoshit]
Indeed. And we get surveillance photos of the Walmart douche within an hour or so, but still no pics or video of Paddock a month later.
KevDen2005
11-02-2017, 18:50
Really not sure why the ATF are interjecting themselves into a local matter.
Sent from my 2PQ93 using Tapatalk
They weren't interjecting, they were providing resources.
Indeed. And we get surveillance photos of the Walmart douche within an hour or so, but still no pics or video of Paddock a month later.Yup.
Sent from my 2PQ93 using Tapatalk
Seamonkey
11-02-2017, 19:54
Odd note from the heavy article : police were reviewing the footage and had an issue identifying the shooter because of the number of people who whipped out guns. Way to go Thornton!!
From the article :"Police said they observed other people with guns (presumably customers responding to the gunfire) in surveillance video inside the Walmart when they were trying to identify the suspect, so it took some time to pinpoint who he was."
I'm wondering if that's why he stopped at three and left when he saw armed opposition. Started out with a "suicide by cop" then changed his mind? Obviously wanted to get caught.
BPTactical
11-02-2017, 20:06
And the spin media is denigrating the CCW holders for "impairing the investigation" and that they should not have pulled their weapons.
Hey Denver Post, 9 News etc:
Go Fuck yourselves.
Yes, that's a capital "F" ...
BushMasterBoy
11-02-2017, 20:14
The important thing is how this will affect the share price of Walmart.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Walmart+stock&oq=Walmart+stock&aqs=chrome..69i57.8823j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#scso=uid_WfvQlgAF4mMKg9JKAQrhAQ_4:0
From the article :"Police said they observed other people with guns (presumably customers responding to the gunfire) in surveillance video inside the Walmart when they were trying to identify the suspect, so it took some time to pinpoint who he was."
Here's an idea - how about focusing on the guy with the gun THAT'S SHOOTING PEOPLE?
KevDen2005
11-02-2017, 21:18
The important thing is how this will affect the share price of Walmart.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Walmart+stock&oq=Walmart+stock&aqs=chrome..69i57.8823j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#scso=uid_WfvQlgAF4mMKg9JKAQrhAQ_4:0
They're rolling back prices
KevDen2005
11-02-2017, 21:19
Here's an idea - how about focusing on the guy with the gun THAT'S SHOOTING PEOPLE?
Except there are hundreds of angles and cameras don't show every angle of the entire store the entire time.
Still doesn't make me want to go to Wallyworld...any of them. My guess is to look for the guy with no bullets left in his gun. That might be a small clue. That and the guy driving the maroon Mirage.
Sorry if that is too simple but seems to be the facts...at least today.
Hell the LV shooting still doesn't have this many facts.
Sad and feel for the families and friends that have a loss due to the fuckwit/coward of the week.
...due to the fuckwits/cowards of the week.
FIFY
OneGuy67
11-03-2017, 09:13
Here's an idea - how about focusing on the guy with the gun THAT'S SHOOTING PEOPLE?
When the first officers on scene asked people what they witnessed in order to attempt to identify the shooter and multiple people indicated there were several people with guns as well, it gets reported as multiple shooters and it does take awhile to get to the truth of just one shooter. There were several hundred people inside the store at the time and all saw/heard different things.
Zundfolge
11-03-2017, 09:43
Except there are hundreds of angles and cameras don't show every angle of the entire store the entire time.
He shot three people by the cash registers ... half the cameras in Walmart are trained on the cash register area.
.455_Hunter
11-03-2017, 09:58
Thornton PD's whining about the armed citizens is really rubbing me the wrong way.
If the perp had decided for continue his attack, who was in the position to engage him- The police? NO! Armed citizens? YES! It would fall to the father with two kids hiding behind a deli case with his .38 snub.
The first videos you look at are the ones from the shooting location, and IDing the guy actually firing at the victims. Sure, if you want to fully process the entire crime scene, tracking the movements of other armed parties would be part of that exercise to eliminate all potential for additional suspects. Saying that the armed citizens delayed the ID of the main perp is asinine.
9news had a thing on their site this morning quoting the neighbor of this guy stating he hated hispanics and said vulgar things about them, and that "he was a ticking time bomb." Further fomenting of the "racism" in America line. With Trump in office, and all the talk of immigration stuff lately, this is going to be a hot button issue for some time longer.
newracer
11-03-2017, 11:00
Thornton PD's whining about the armed citizens is really rubbing me the wrong way.
If the perp had decided for continue his attack, who was in the position to engage him- The police? NO! Armed citizens? YES! It would fall to the father with two kids hiding behind a deli case with his .38 snub.
The first videos you look at are the ones from the shooting location, and IDing the guy actually firing at the victims. Sure, if you want to fully process the entire crime scene, tracking the movements of other armed parties would be part of that exercise to eliminate all potential for additional suspects. Saying that the armed citizens delayed the ID of the main perp is asinine.
I don't think they ever said it delayed the ID of the main suspect but it did delay their conclusion that there was only one suspect.
.455_Hunter
11-03-2017, 12:03
I don't think they ever said it delayed the ID of the main suspect but it did delay their conclusion that there was only one suspect.
Regardless, using the words straight from Thronton PD, the MEDIA IMPRESSION is to portray the armed citizens' presence as disrupting and problematic.
Curious why deploy the flash bang on the sidewalk AFTER the perp was in custody? Was that an “oops” moment?
9news had a thing on their site this morning quoting the neighbor of this guy stating he hated hispanics and said vulgar things about them, and that "he was a ticking time bomb." Further fomenting of the "racism" in America line. With Trump in office, and all the talk of immigration stuff lately, this is going to be a hot button issue for some time longer.
Coincident/random or not, I belive all 3 victims were Hispanic?
Coincident/random or not, I belive all 3 victims were Hispanic?
They were. I don't really believe in coincidences.
I will say that the Public Defenders jumped on this guy pretty quick. Odds are, due to media coverage, he's been told to keep his yap closed.
KevDen2005
11-03-2017, 22:51
Regardless, using the words straight from Thronton PD, the MEDIA IMPRESSION is to portray the armed citizens' presence as disrupting and problematic.
The problem was not knowing who a shooter was and coming up with armed citizens in the process and going through the process it takes for several officers to stop, detain, and find out who this person was during the initial response. No one knew who the shooter was or where he had gone at the time, hence delaying a search of the actual suspect. That is what they are saying.
hollohas
11-04-2017, 08:05
The problem was not knowing who a shooter was and coming up with armed citizens in the process and going through the process it takes for several officers to stop, detain, and find out who this person was during the initial response. No one knew who the shooter was or where he had gone at the time, hence delaying a search of the actual suspect. That is what they are saying.I think the PD did a pretty good job. Got him fairly quickly.
I was actually very happy to hear multiple people were armed. Put a smile on my face. Sorting through each as part of the investigation is just a necessary result of a politely armed society.
.455_Hunter
11-04-2017, 08:20
Yet another vilification of the armed citizens, with more "helpful" comments from Thornton PD, published on KUSA at 9:00 pm last night...
POLICE HAD TO DECIPHER BETWEEN CUSTOMERS WITH GUNS AND THE SUSPECT AFTER WALMART SHOOTING
http://www.9news.com/mobile/article/news/local/next/police-had-to-decipher-between-customers-with-guns-and-the-suspect-after-walmart-shooting/73-489004442
He ultimately said there were between two-and-five "good guys" with guns.
It is obvious that Thornton PD had never trained or planned for a contingency where they would encounter or have to process multiple armed citizens post-event, and are actively using said citizens as a scapegoat for bumbling the initial investigation.
Were there no:
- cameras looking directly at the shooting scene that could immediately reviewed? This was the checkout area, not the antifreeze and oil aisle.
- witness discriptions of the person doing the ACTUAL shooting?
- contemplation that the guy waiting around after the event with a personal weapon is probably NOT your suspect?
Sorry- Usually I am pretty loathe to criticize law enforcement, but this just smells and the media is lapping it up.
hollohas
11-04-2017, 08:39
Wait, wait, wait.
So their investigation was "delayed" for hours because they had to keep following good guys with guns in the cameras and starting the tapes over. But after watching good guys with guns for hours, they only figured out that there were somewhere between 2 to 5 of them? Was every good guy with a gun wearing the same outfit?
KevDen2005
11-04-2017, 08:55
No the investigation was delayed because they were trying to clear the building and area. No one knew where the shooter actually was so an investigation can't really start until the scene is safe. Nothing like reviewing video and getting blasted by the bad guy to make a bunch of people that have no idea how this works happy. No two witnesses ever tell the same story.
And the media has been doing their best to make TPD look like a bunch of assholes from the start.
I'm just glad to know that producing surveillance video from an incident at Walmart seems to go much better than trying to get good video from a casino in Las Vegas.
.455_Hunter
11-04-2017, 09:16
No the investigation was delayed because they were trying to clear the building and area. No one knew where the shooter actually was so an investigation can't really start until the scene is safe. Nothing like reviewing video and getting blasted by the bad guy to make a bunch of people that have no idea how this works happy. No two witnesses ever tell the same story.
And the media has been doing their best to make TPD look like a bunch of assholes from the start.
Given that there is no ongoing gunfire or confirmed threat, a group of armed LEO can't specifically secure the video room and begin reviewing tape until the ENTIRE crime scene location has be secured? That sounds like a page from the pre-Columbine tactics book of combat ineffectiveness.
You think the media is trying make TPD look bad? That's nothing compared to their smear campaign against the armed citizens.
hollohas
11-04-2017, 09:38
No the investigation was delayed because they were trying to clear the building and area.
Victor Avila, the PD spokesman, specifically said there was a delay, in part, because they had to rewatch video because the good guys with guns made it unclear who the shooter was.
I don't personally believe there was a delay at all. They got the guy within hours. It's the PD who said good guys with guns extended the investigation time.
“Once the building was safe enough to get into it, we started reviewing that (surveillance video) as quickly as we could,” Avila said. “That’s when we started noticing that a number of individuals had pulled weapons.”
He added, “At that point, as soon as you see that, that’s the one you try to trace through the store, only to maybe find out that’s not him, and we’re back to ground zero again, starting to look again. That’s what led to the extended time.”
I think the PD did a great job. But, I also think it's pretty silly that after watching all the good guys with guns on video, they don't actually know how many there were.
The PD created the "delay" conversation with the above statement. The media just took that and ran with it as is their MO.
Nothing like reviewing video and getting blasted by the bad guy to make a bunch of people that have no idea how this works happy.
^ So dramatic. No one suggested the PD should sit in the video room with their backs turned during an active shooting.
BPTactical
11-04-2017, 12:43
I'm just glad to know that producing surveillance video from an incident at Walmart seems to go much better than trying to get good video from a casino in Las Vegas.
Truth
So, any reports yet of WHY this douchebag did this?
I assume Thornton got much better dealing armed citizen after Cinnabarre Theater incident.
This will send message to bad guys that armed citizen are everywhere in thornton.
So, any reports yet of WHY this douchebag did this?
I heard media reports that he was racist and hated Mexicans. So says the media so take that for what it’s worth.
If he was targeting our Spanish speaking brothers or he certainly picked the right Walmart.
OneGuy67
11-04-2017, 16:48
The problem was not knowing who a shooter was and coming up with armed citizens in the process and going through the process it takes for several officers to stop, detain, and find out who this person was during the initial response. No one knew who the shooter was or where he had gone at the time, hence delaying a search of the actual suspect. That is what they are saying.
No the investigation was delayed because they were trying to clear the building and area. No one knew where the shooter actually was so an investigation can't really start until the scene is safe. Nothing like reviewing video and getting blasted by the bad guy to make a bunch of people that have no idea how this works happy. No two witnesses ever tell the same story.
And the media has been doing their best to make TPD look like a bunch of assholes from the start.
To elaborate on what Kev said, when you have several hundred people that are all in a heightened state of emotions, and you are one of the first officers there and are trying to ascertain who the shooter is, what they are wearing and you have other officers making entry into a very large building, and you have people who saw and heard different things, it is confusing. Now add that some of the witnesses say they saw this person or that person who also had a weapon and it creates inaccurate information in the beginning that needs to be vetted out. You may have had only one suspect who shot, but there may be others who are part of the criminal act who may have changed their mind or were doing something else.
The security room in which the video is located at isn't accessible by law enforcement alone. They would need to find in the mass of people someone who has access to the room and access to the video. Again, more time and you sure as hell aren't going to take a civilian into a building that hasn't been cleared.
It is obvious that Thornton PD had never trained or planned for a contingency where they would encounter or have to process multiple armed citizens post-event, and are actively using said citizens as a scapegoat for bumbling the initial investigation.
Were there no:
- cameras looking directly at the shooting scene that could immediately reviewed? This was the checkout area, not the antifreeze and oil aisle.
- witness discriptions of the person doing the ACTUAL shooting?
- contemplation that the guy waiting around after the event with a personal weapon is probably NOT your suspect?
Sorry- Usually I am pretty loathe to criticize law enforcement, but this just smells and the media is lapping it up.
Given that there is no ongoing gunfire or confirmed threat, a group of armed LEO can't specifically secure the video room and begin reviewing tape until the ENTIRE crime scene location has be secured? That sounds like a page from the pre-Columbine tactics book of combat ineffectiveness.
You think the media is trying make TPD look bad? That's nothing compared to their smear campaign against the armed citizens.
Most agencies do not actively train on scenarios in which there would be multiple CCW people in it. The topic will be discussed at agencies now, I'm sure.
The initial response was not "bungled" at all. The PD handled it in as well of a manner, given the event, circumstances, known information and manpower as that of any other agency. The investigation flowed smoothly. The PD quickly asked for assistance from a number of agencies and utilized that assistance in a judicious manner. The suspect was identified by PD people and assets were deployed. Tips came in all night long and LE responded to each of them. A lot of people were interviewed, search warrants were written and executed and family members of victims had to be notified and consoled.
The information provided that led to identifying the suspect and where it came from, I am not going to comment on. The PD briefed both assisting agencies and the public as quickly as possible. You can't make the assumption the suspect would flee or stay in any event. An example of that is the suspect who attempted to blow up the Netherland PD. He was across the street and was evacuated out of the area by law enforcement before they realized he was the suspect. Holmes was in no hurry to leave after shooting up the theater.
From a review of topics you have started on COAR and statements you have made, it is obvious you are an avid supporter of CCW and appear to be very defensive of any statement that might be considered negative to that activity. The members here on COAR do seem eager at times to Monday night quarterback law enforcement and have done so on many occasions and have caused a number of law enforcement members to stop posting and coming here. There are two people on COAR who responded to this event Wednesday night. For you to say they "bungled the initial investigation" is disingenuous, insulting and not based on the facts.
theGinsue
11-04-2017, 17:28
To elaborate on what Kev said, when you have several hundred people that are all in a heightened state of emotions, and you are one of the first officers there and are trying to ascertain who the shooter is, what they are wearing and you have other officers making entry into a very large building, and you have people who saw and heard different things, it is confusing. Now add that some of the witnesses say they saw this person or that person who also had a weapon and it creates inaccurate information in the beginning that needs to be vetted out. You may have had only one suspect who shot, but there may be others who are part of the criminal act who may have changed their mind or were doing something else.
The security room in which the video is located at isn't accessible by law enforcement alone. They would need to find in the mass of people someone who has access to the room and access to the video. Again, more time and you sure as hell aren't going to take a civilian into a building that hasn't been cleared.
Most agencies do not actively train on scenarios in which there would be multiple CCW people in it. The topic will be discussed at agencies now, I'm sure.
The initial response was not "bungled" at all. The PD handled it in as well of a manner, given the event, circumstances, known information and manpower as that of any other agency. The investigation flowed smoothly. The PD quickly asked for assistance from a number of agencies and utilized that assistance in a judicious manner. The suspect was identified by PD people and assets were deployed. Tips came in all night long and LE responded to each of them. A lot of people were interviewed, search warrants were written and executed and family members of victims had to be notified and consoled.
The information provided that led to identifying the suspect and where it came from, I am not going to comment on. The PD briefed both assisting agencies and the public as quickly as possible. You can't make the assumption the suspect would flee or stay in any event. An example of that is the suspect who attempted to blow up the Netherland PD. He was across the street and was evacuated out of the area by law enforcement before they realized he was the suspect. Holmes was in no hurry to leave after shooting up the theater.
From a review of topics you have started on COAR and statements you have made, it is obvious you are an avid supporter of CCW and appear to be very defensive of any statement that might be considered negative to that activity. The members here on COAR do seem eager at times to Monday night quarterback law enforcement and have done so on many occasions and have caused a number of law enforcement members to stop posting and coming here. There are two people on COAR who responded to this event Wednesday night. For you to say they "bungled the initial investigation" is disingenuous, insulting and not based on the facts.
Well stated.
While I'm not particularly fond of the comments from the Public Affairs Officer that CCW holders caused delays in the investigation (this could have remained publiclly unstated), I'm pleased with everything else I saw in how this investigation was handled and how quickly our LE community was able to identify the perpetrator and get him into custody.
We're 85 posts into this thread and I'm seeing the same thing brought up again and again - people without all of the facts rendering their opinions as to how LE screwed the pooch on this. Enough.
Folks, we have a tremendous resource on this forum through our LEO members. Aside from what every other member has to offer here, our LEO members routinely offer us insight and understanding of processes that have to occur in an investigation. Consider that nationwide our LE community is actually being targeted for helping to keep all of us safer, and they face greater and greater scrutiny in the media and in the courts for making the best decisions they can in a split second under highly stressful situations. Because the face of danger continues to evolve, LE organizations continually have to adjust their training and tactics. Experience helps, but every LEO is just as human as the rest of us and WILL make mistakes; it just part of being human. It's easy to Monday morning quarterback the individual actions of an officer or agency, but without actually participating in each of these specific actions we can't possibly understand all of the obstacles they're up against.
This site has always, and unless something drastically changes will continue to support our brothers & sisters in blue. So, unless you were directly involved in any LE encounter, lets not bash these folks for doing the best job they can under the circumstances. Asking questions without an agenda or opinion is fine, but second guessing their efforts is detrimental to all of us.
Frankly, I'm saddened by the number of great members, particularly LEO members, we've run off from this site. I think it's lessened the entire COAR community.
Yep. Well stated by both OneGuy and Ginsue. I only hope that the armed citizens discouraged the scum from shooting other shoppers.
It is also sad that the shooter calls central Americans all as "Mexican."
It is like calling former Soviet and Eastern European as "Russian."
"You Russian? Russian? Russian?"
(Substitute that with Chinese, Mexican, )
"Which country are you from? Africa?"
Well said Ginsue!
Yep. Well stated by both OneGuy and Ginsue. I only hope that the armed citizens discouraged the scum from shooting other shoppers.
Agreed.
Frankly, I'm saddened by the number of great members, particularly LEO members, we've run off from this site. I think it's lessened the entire COAR community.
Really? Are they that thin-skinned?
Where do they go. Are they looking for an echo chamber?
I don't believe "we've" run them off.
They left.
This site has a crap-ton more integrity than most out there. Sure, there are a few outspoken pricks who agitate a majority of the community on a regular basis, and a few who do the same on an infrequent basis. There are also a few who REALLY piss some members off on a regular basis.
Give and get. Give and take. The beauty of this site is that it is not a blank sound board for random internet douchebags. You can be pretty sure of what you're getting here.
Have we lost members? Sure. It happens.
Do we have members the collective "we" wish we lost? Maybe. Not my place to say.
Members come and go. LEO don't want to deal with LEO haters? Ignore or don't get involved in the thread.
Run away and bury your head in the sand? Boo Hoo.
Don't succumb to trolls.
I've said too much, but I hit submit anyway.
Members of this site have been run off for much less.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Zundfolge
11-04-2017, 21:36
crays is harshing on my safe space.
It is also sad that the shooter calls central Americans all as "Mexican."
It is like calling former Soviet and Eastern European as "Russian."
"You Russian? Russian? Russian?"
(Substitute that with Chinese, Mexican, )
"Which country are you from? Africa?"
Mass shooters aren't generally well known for their fantastic comprehension skills or erudition.
Meticulous planning? Sometimes.
Rational justifications? Never.
Really? Are they that thin-skinned?
Where do they go. Are they looking for an echo chamber?
I don't believe "we've" run them off.
They left.
This site has a crap-ton more integrity than most out there. Sure, there are a few outspoken pricks who agitate a majority of the community on a regular basis, and a few who do the same on an infrequent basis. There are also a few who REALLY piss some members off on a regular basis.
Give and get. Give and take. The beauty of this site is that it is not a blank sound board for random internet douchebags. You can be pretty sure of what you're getting here.
Have we lost members? Sure. It happens.
Do we have members the collective "we" wish we lost? Maybe. Not my place to say.
Members come and go. LEO don't want to deal with LEO haters? Ignore or don't get involved in the thread.
Run away and bury your head in the sand? Boo Hoo.
Don't succumb to trolls.
I've said too much, but I hit submit anyway.
Members of this site have been run off for much less.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
+1
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.