View Full Version : Friends/family buying sub-par guns
kidicarus13
11-05-2017, 11:45
Why do friends/family buy crap guns (Taurus semiauto pistol) from big box stores for retail prices without at least talking to me? "You know I could have gotten you a Glock and ammo for less money than you spent on that Taurus?"
Oh well, life goes on.
Probably embarrassed to get your opinion on the Taurus because it’s the best gun that they can afford. Too often with first time buyers it’s the cost that’s the deciding factor. It’s a shame.
No idea. I think a lot if it is that some people don't know what they don't know and don't know where to look for research (or what to look for). They go to an LGS thinking that's the only place you can buy a gun and they assume that the person behind the counter knows what they are talking about and has the buyer's best interests at heart--which isn't always the case. Until I got much more into firearms and hooked up with a few gun-related forums/threads on various sites, I didn't know much. Gradually learned about what to look for, discovered online firearms/ammo/accessory purchasing, etc.
But you would think that if someone knew that you knew about the subject . . . that they might seek out advice.
OtterbatHellcat
11-05-2017, 12:01
+1
I know why. They don't really like you and therefore could care less what you think.
I know why. They don't really like you and therefore could care less what you think.
[LOL]
People also don't understand that guns are like inkjet printers. It's very likely you'll spend more on consumables than you will on the device itself, unless you buy on the really high-end. Whether you buy a $300 or $600 dollar pistol, you'll easily put more than that through it in ammo. Get a firearm that works for you, is reliable, and will last.
Why do friends/family buy crap guns (Taurus semiauto pistol) from big box stores for retail prices without at least talking to me? "You know I could have gotten you a Glock and ammo for less money than you spent on that Taurus?"
Oh well, life goes on.
Well.. It's better than them asking you first and then still buying shit.. I've gone through that scenario more than a few times, I've just learned not to say anything, why should I care.
BushMasterBoy
11-05-2017, 13:25
25% of Americans are clinically mentally ill. This number may change.
What's not to like about Taurus? [Wiggle]
72464
Zundfolge
11-05-2017, 15:17
Whats worse is when they pester you for months and you give them good advice and they STILL go out and buy crap.
Great-Kazoo
11-05-2017, 15:33
You Can Lead a person to Knowledge
But you Can't make them Think
Gun owners as a whole (especially those who only buy one and that one is usually for "home defense" or "self protection") usually purchase based off of price more than anything. I guess in their minds there really can't be much difference in a $500 handgun and a $200 handgun so they might as well save themselves $300.
When friends ask, I usually ask a few questions, then give them a list of 5-6 guns they should go finger bang, and preferably shoot at a store/range.
I've even offered to meet them to answer any questions or provide guidance, and let them shoot what I have. Sometimes, but not always, they end up with at least one of the suggested guns. It should really be about reliability+shootability but certainly budget is a consideration for many. Someone may love to shoot that HK or (metal frame) SIG, but can really only spend Glock or M&P money.
Cheap and have no knowledge when it comes to firearms and don't want to look like a newbie by asking questions.
SideShow Bob
11-05-2017, 16:14
[LOL]
People also don't understand that guns are like inkjet printers. It's very likely you'll spend more on consumables than you will on the device itself, unless you buy on the really high-end. Whether you buy a $300 or $600 dollar pistol, you'll easily put more than that through it in ammo. Get a firearm that works for you, is reliable, and will last.
You forget that the type of purchaser you are talking about might, a very remote might, put a full box to two boxes of ammo through said firearm the entire time they own it......
BladesNBarrels
11-05-2017, 16:53
Before the Colorado restrictions changed, I took a few close friends to the range and let them try different pistols.
When they found one they liked, I gave it to them.
It always came back in ammo donations, computer help, and other things that friends do.
You forget that the type of purchaser you are talking about might, a very remote might, put a full box to two boxes of ammo through said firearm the entire time they own it......
True, particularly if they have no desire to verify the pistol's reliability or become proficient with it. Some folks seem to be comforted to just have one, like it's a talisman to prevent bad things happening to them.
A Taurus will keep those socks in the drawer held in place just as well as a Glock or STI.
What's not to like about Taurus? [Wiggle]
72464
Who remembers the member we used to have named Atrain.... this thread reminds me of him. He loved Taurus
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Before the Colorado restrictions changed, I took a few close friends to the range and let them try different pistols.
When they found one they liked, I gave it to them.
It always came back in ammo donations, computer help, and other things that friends do.
Hey buddy [Coffee]
That's awesome man! I've given a few away to close real friends and family as well, I also make fun of them when they buy junk [Coffee]
My son-in-law doesn’t know much about guns. I was always afraid he would spend a bunch of money on a piece of crap. So, one year for Christmas I gave him one, a Hi Point 45. I sort of did it as a joke because it only cost me $5. I thought by now he’d figure it out and I would have to give him a Glock or 1911, but, it’s been four years now. I did it to get an idea how interested he is in guns, guess I know what the answer is. He tells me he shoots it with friends, I guess none of his friends have told him he has a boat anchor. He has never said anything but nice things about shooting it.
hollohas
11-05-2017, 20:29
Before the Colorado restrictions changed, I took a few close friends to the range and let them try different pistols.
When they found one they liked, I gave it to them.
It always came back in ammo donations, computer help, and other things that friends do.Do you have any openings for close friends? I'm new to shooting ;).
OtterbatHellcat
11-05-2017, 20:37
[ROFL1]......
Bailey Guns
11-05-2017, 22:07
I know this is not what the OP was talking about but there is a market and a need for inexpensive guns just like there's a market for many other less costly items. People of all means feel the need for protection and many people have to sacrifice a lot to scrape together $150 for a cheap gun and some ammo. Not everyone has a Glock or Kimber budget...even a used one.
I'd say a Taurus revolver or semi-auto (some for less than $200 new) would serve the vast majority of people quite well as a home defense gun.
It's probably more helpful to steer them towards a place to buy where they'll be taken care of appropriately by knowledgeable people rather than taken advantage of.
Some guns appear to be of 'high quality' when looking at them. Until you learn more about them, and begin to work on them, there's not a lot to indicate the first impression was wrong.
Case in point: I'm currently working on a Rossi shotgun. My initial impression was positive, the fit, finish, and shine are quite nice.
Then I dis-assembled the shotgun to look at the internals and do some deep cleaning. The components are made of cheap cast metal, stampings of weak steel, and poor quality machine screws.
This may be typical of low-end shotguns, but it was still disappointing.
It's probably more helpful to steer them towards a place to buy where they'll be taken care of appropriately by knowledgeable people rather than taken advantage of.
And that's why I send my friends and loved ones to Ark Tactical [Coffee]
GilpinGuy
11-05-2017, 23:02
And that's why I send my friends and loved ones to Ark Tactical [Coffee]
Same here. I've sent more than a few Noah's way.
For friends and family asking advice, I think there's a weird mental thing there for a lot of folks.
I have heard/read many, many times, "Don't try to take your wife/girlfriend to the range and teach them how to shoot - it will not go well. Have them trained by a professional." This isn't because you're a moron, but because some people feel that a "professional" has credibility, and they're a stranger. A stranger who is a professional saying "you're doing that wrong" is WAAAAAAY different that a husband saying it to his wife. I'm not bashing the wife here, it's just human nature. It would be the same way if the husband/wife thing were reversed.
So, maybe it's the same kind of thing with buying a first gun. "Well, I've read 15 minutes about this and that online ("stopping power", etc.), and the "professional" at the gun store said this would be perfect for me". Nobody likes to admit being ignorant about anything to their friends or family.
And if someone I knew bought a Hi Point as a first gun, I say "Awesome man! Let's go shoot it!" Any gun is better than no gun. The last thing I'd do it bash them or berate them for it.
SideShow Bob
11-05-2017, 23:04
And that's why I send my friends and loved ones to Ark Tactical [Coffee]
“And they went in unto Noah into the ark”..........
kidicarus13
11-05-2017, 23:18
You forget that the type of purchaser you are talking about might, a very remote might, put a full box to two boxes of ammo through said firearm the entire time they own it......
Some folks seem to be comforted to just have one, like it's a talisman to prevent bad things happening to them.
Yes and yes.
"Test reliability?! It's brand new!"
"Test reliability?! It's brand new!"
Yes. Parts built with variable dimensions and tolerances which were put together by a human being. How many manmade devices do you know of that are perfect? [Coffee]
Brand new means to me that it's unproven and not trustworthy, but I'm not a n00b to this game.
kidicarus13
11-05-2017, 23:53
Just to be clear, the quotes were what the buyer said.
Just to be clear, the quotes were what the buyer said.
I knew what you were doing there. I realize there are some that will buy a new gun and never or rarely ever shoot it. I don't get it, but I realize it happens.
Not everyone places the same level of importance on guns. To some, it's just a neat range toy that they use maybe once a year. So why spend double (or more) on something they really don't see themselves using? Like the person that only wants a car to get from point a to point b and nothing else matters. They'll probably buy the most economical car that gets the job done for what they need. Some people don't even know the make/model car they have. Guns are no different depending on your mindset. For us, it seems crazy to not spend a little more and get a higher quality product but some people just buy one to "have one in the house" and call it good.
I know I don't always ask my super tech friends about tech stuff because they'll usually tell me to get something that I wont be able to take advantage of or care to. I buy cheap tv's when they reach rock bottom price. I don't care how much better the new ones perform or the clarity because to me, a tv is a tv so as long as it turns on, I'm usually good with it these days. But I grew up when a 13" tube tv was hot ish to have in my bedroom so even the basic $400 tv now is OMG good to me.
Sometimes, asking the resident hobbyist is a bad idea because they've gone so deep down the rabbit hole, they forget what its like to NOT be that into that hobby/item. That might be part of the reason for not asking and then they don't want to seem like they didn't take your advice.
Just my $.02.
kidicarus13
11-06-2017, 11:25
Fair response to shed light on a perspective that I did not see.
Well.. It's better than them asking you first and then still buying shit.. I've gone through that scenario more than a few times, I've just learned not to say anything, why should I care.
I've been down that road.
Several times.
matttahoe53
11-06-2017, 13:22
I think for a first time purchase it doesn’t matter as much. If they get into shooting on a regular basis they will become more informed and probably adjust going forward.
If they buy it and never use it then it really makes no difference.
SouthPaw
11-06-2017, 14:14
Funny; my first purchase was this EXACT situation, 7 years ago:
https://www.ar-15.co/threads/21212-Taurus-Millennium-Pro-111-9mm-VS-S-amp-W-Sigma-9mm
I was just about to turn 21 and The Great Kazoo had already been working on me to get my CCW. Kazoo offered me a Gen 3 Glock 19 that was NIB but wouldn't budge off $475...(cheap skate). Not realizing asking for $50 off a gun is like asking for $500 off a car. Only ever shooting a handful of various rifles/shotguns, I had no handgun experience. I began researching online and was drawn to Taurus. For the price, it offered a lot of features that I thought I wanted at the time. Double strike capability, good mag capacity, stainless, etc. I drove down to the local Sportsman's Warehouse were they had the exact model I was looking for; The Taurus 24/7 Pro full size with a stainless slide in 45ACP. I paid less than $400 out the door with a box of ammo. Over the next few months, I put maybe 200 rounds through it and a co worker began telling me that he was selling his Springfield XD-45. I asked him how much and he said $400. I knew Springfield was a 'better' gun and for what I paid for the Taurus, I realized I could have purchased a used SA 45 Stainless with night sights. I sold the Taurus to a friend for $350+/- and purchased the SA.
I never had any problems with the Taurus (that I can remember) and the guy I sold it to, still has it. I do not think he has ever shot it so it is sitting in a drawer somewhere. A lot of people say you can't count on sub par guns but a lot more dead people would probably argue that. At the time, I had no one in my family that I could ask for advice from so I just went out on a limb and purchased what I thought would work. I recently purchased a M85 Protector to add a cheap wheel gun to my collection and another CCW. $160 after MIB and I am happy camper (once I take it to the range).
Whats worse is when they pester you for months and you give them good advice and they STILL go out and buy crap.
This is the one that irks me.
SouthPaw
11-07-2017, 10:34
This is the one that irks me.
https://s1.postimg.org/70t1y74k3z/ask.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
People enjoy their ignorance, makes them feel better about themselves.
“Living is Easy with Eyes Closed.”
― John Lennon
kidicarus13
03-01-2018, 08:58
Add a co-worker to the list. "I bought a case of ammo with my AR for $119. Is that a decent price?" His "case" of ammo turned out to be 200rds. "Ya, you did great." [palm smacking forehead] Maybe my personality just makes me unapproachable.
SouthPaw
03-01-2018, 09:41
Add a co-worker to the list. "I bought a case of ammo with my AR for $119. Is that a decent price?" His "case" of ammo turned out to be 200rds. "Ya, you did great." [palm smacking forehead] Maybe my personality just makes me unapproachable.
I've got some extras if he needs more.
Shooter45
03-01-2018, 09:47
My friend from the Marines now has his FFL and selling guns in another state, he personally pushes Taurus for sales and tells me I'm just picky. Yep.
Add a co-worker to the list. "I bought a case of ammo with my AR for $119. Is that a decent price?" His "case" of ammo turned out to be 200rds. "Ya, you did great." [palm smacking forehead] Maybe my personality just makes me unapproachable.
Who ever sold that to them should be ashamed.
Add a co-worker to the list. "I bought a case of ammo with my AR for $119. Is that a decent price?" His "case" of ammo turned out to be 200rds. "Ya, you did great." [palm smacking forehead] Maybe my personality just makes me unapproachable.
Damn . . . I just got a 1,200 round case of IMI 5.56 55 gr for $290 shipped. It's criminal the way some people get ripped off like that.
buffalobo
03-01-2018, 12:57
Damn . . . I just got a 1,200 round case of IMI 5.56 55 gr for $290 shipped. It's criminal the way some people get ripped off like that.Post info in buyer intel.[emoji106]
If you're unarmed, you are a victim
SideShow Bob
03-01-2018, 12:58
Can you post a link ?
colorider
03-01-2018, 13:13
Link was up a while ago. I got some. It was Midway. Add a cheap free shipping item to your order and there ya go. Link is in buyer intell section.
Link was up a while ago. I got some. It was Midway. Add a cheap free shipping item to your order and there ya go. Link is in buyer intell section.
It was Midway as noted above . . . but I believe I heard the prices had jumped a bit after all the most recent shenanigans? Someone on another board said that was the case, but I have not looked.
EDIT: Yeah, I ordered on Feb. 22nd . . . it's back up to $.37/round again.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/898842/imi-ammunition-556x45mm-55-grain-m193-full-metal-jacket-boat-tail
For the same reason I was the bad guy suggesting people spend $15 more to not buy fake tourniquets last year...
Great-Kazoo
03-01-2018, 14:36
Damn . . . I just got a 1,200 round case of IMI 5.56 55 gr for $290 shipped. It's criminal the way some people get ripped off like that.
If they are not smart enough to browse the web for ammo, or any other item, to compare pricing. That's their problem.
A friend just acquired his first AR asked me about some (CO compliant) mags , if i'd sell him a few. Sure 2 for $25. that the best you can do.. No it's not but i suggest you go to the gun store or online and buy a few. OK i'll take them. Great how many... umm 2?
This after his brother told him. A Minimum of 10 mags and 1K of ammo. He still hasn't come by for the mags and says he's got a box or two of 223 , that should do him for now. OK, next week they're $15 per ;)
My GAF meter pegged out a few years back.
My friend from the Marines now has his FFL and selling guns in another state, he personally pushes Taurus for sales and tells me I'm just picky. Yep.
Oh yeah, sign me up for a cheap Taurus...not.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-02-28/how-defective-guns-became-the-only-product-that-can-t-be-recalled
Damn . . . I just got a 1,200 round case of IMI 5.56 55 gr for $290 shipped. It's criminal the way some people get ripped off like that.
I picked one up too...
Those free shipping targets sure got expensive.
[Coffee]
Little more expensive than the 55 gr deal that has come and gone a few times . . . but Midway has the IMI green tip for $.27/rd shipped now.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/460512/imi-ammunition-556x45mm-nato-62-grain-m855-ss109-penetrator-full-metal-jacket-boat-tail
buffalobo
03-08-2018, 20:58
Little more expensive than the 55 gr deal that has come and gone a few times . . . but Midway has the IMI green tip for $.27/rd shipped now.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/460512/imi-ammunition-556x45mm-nato-62-grain-m855-ss109-penetrator-full-metal-jacket-boat-tail
Mrs bo's Colt loves that stuff.
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