View Full Version : Church shooting in Texas. Multiple casualties
Aardvark
11-05-2017, 13:31
On news now: murderer walks into church, starts shooting. Sutherland Springs, Texas.
OtterbatHellcat
11-05-2017, 13:32
Dammit.
wctriumph
11-05-2017, 13:34
Yep, just seeing this, no solid info right now, some killed, more wounded, shooter killed at a Baptist church.
Prayers for the victims and their families.
Zundfolge
11-05-2017, 14:35
Damn. Normally I'd joke that the last place one of these things would happen is in a small town church in Texas. I hope this guy got at least SOME return fire (but it doesn't look like it) :(
hollohas
11-05-2017, 14:39
Small church in a town of about 400 people. So sad. Sounds like the guy was killed after a brief getaway. I'm always surprised when these bad guys get in and out untouched. Sounds like the police were all over him pretty quickly. Wonder if he had words inside first that gave them some time to get there???
Zundfolge
11-05-2017, 14:42
Well this church seems to post their sermons on Youtube, so chances are there's actually video of the shooting (that the world will never see).
wctriumph
11-05-2017, 14:49
The commentators are saying that guns are a way of life in Texas but surely we can apply some common sense to what kind of guns can be owned by regular people without violating the second amendment. So predictable, so sad.
Fox just reported 20-24 dead. Sad.
Just terrible. I have no words.
nogaroheli
11-05-2017, 15:10
Awful. Praying for all who were involved.
I'm interested in seeing the perp's long list of warning signs that went unheeded.
Prayers to all the lost and the forever changed lives in this shooting.
Thoughts out as well to all the LEO and First Responders out there that have to deal with this stuff, I do not envy your job.
You are a sick SOB to kill people in ANY church.
Great-Kazoo
11-05-2017, 15:36
Fox just reported 20-24 dead. Sad.
27 at last count, similar number injured. Not saying if said injuries are life threatening or not .
Prayers sent out for the family's and 'll that is affected.
Truly horrible
GilpinGuy
11-05-2017, 16:57
Half the congregation slaughtered. Truly evil.
Pistol Packing Preacher
11-05-2017, 17:01
Ohhh... among the dead... Pastor's daughter! May the Lord have mercy on us all!
And on that whole congregation!
Bailey Guns
11-05-2017, 17:11
Why do I always ask myself, "why?" after these sorts of things? There just isn't an answer other than this is the way evil manifests itself, I guess. Always has, always will. The best we can do is try hard to guard ourselves and our own against it.
The shooter...was court martialed from the U.S. Air Force three years ago.
SouthPaw
11-05-2017, 17:33
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5052163/Up-27-shot-Texas-church-gunman-opens-fire.html
theGinsue
11-05-2017, 17:42
May the Lord our God be with all of those affected by this, yet another, senseless tragedy and provide them with comfort and healing.
Evil not only exists in our world but is growing by the day. We all need to be prepared to take necessary appropriate action against it when it comes into our lives. Having a strong faith in God can help us through these things. Having and teaching to our young and others good morals can help us prevent such tragedies. Sadly, good morality is quickly disappearing from this world. We all fight our own demons, but those of us with strong morals know the right ways to handle these struggles, to include seeking help when and if things become too intense for us. Too few in this world are willing to get the help they need, preferring to do as much harm to others as they can on their way out. It is a truly sad time we live in.
I first heard about this event from the news feed on Facebook. From there I checked out national and local news outlets for more information. In all of these resources I read through the many comments posted. There are a huge amount of folks calling for more/stronger gun laws. They're decrying how easy it is for someone to get a firearm and how no one needs semi-auto (in some cases they say full auto) "war machine" guns. I find it interesting that when a Muslim extremist killed 8 and injured another 12 people with a rented truck you didn't hear how easy it is for someone to rent a truck or that no one but certain select folks need access to trucks. To demonize a tool on one account, yet not the next is preposterous. Firearms are designed to fire a projectile, not "to kill" as I continue to hear repeatedly. They are nothing more than a tool, which can be used for good reasons just as much as they can be used for evil reasons. Because evil exists and may someday present itself in my life where my possession of a firearm may stop that evil from hurting me or others, I will fight for that right until my death.
In the mean time, I encourage everyone here to take a moment to say a prayer for those killed or injured if you are a person of faith (as I am), reflect on your many blessings, and hug those you care about while being thankful for their safety.
OtterbatHellcat
11-05-2017, 17:56
Well said, T.
Put on your tin foil hats, fellas, because I'm calling this another act of Deep State Hypnosis. Thank George Soros, Barack Obama, the Clintons and their investors. Find a vulnerable, unstable, and down on their luck patsy, feed the right drugs and subliminal instructions. From Holmes, Paddock and now this loser, stir and serve. The marxist elites will stop at nothing to gain complete control. America is at the top of their list.
OtterbatHellcat
11-05-2017, 17:58
Sounds like neighbor near the church pulls shotgun out and engages shooter.
hollohas
11-05-2017, 17:58
Sounds like he shot into the church from outside. Then he entered and shot more. When he came out a good guy with a gun engaged him. Bad guy dropped his rifle and fled in his car. He then crashed and was found dead via GSW. Not sure if it was the good guy or self inflicted.
Sounds like he shot into the church from outside. Then he entered and shot more. When he came out a good guy with a gun engaged him. Bad guy dropped his rifle and fled in his car. He then crashed and was found dead via GSW. Not sure if it was the good guy or self inflicted.
Where did you hear that?
Have first-hand experience with a perpetrator being shot only to escape in vehicle that ends in a crash as the bullet's damage takes effect. We'll see how it pans out.
I have to wonder what meds this shooter was on/had stopped taking.
BushMasterBoy
11-05-2017, 18:33
Devin Kelley. USAF vet. Dishonorable discharge. Used an AR-15. Link below gives more details.
https://heavy.com/news/2017/11/devin-kelley-p-sutherland-springs-church-shooter-patrick-kelly/
Correct me if I’m wrong doesn’t a court Marshal or Dishonorable discharge prevent you from owning a firearm?
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Correct me if I’m wrong doesn’t a court Marshal or Dishonorable discharge prevent you from owning a firearm?
Yeap, he was a walking gun-free zone.
Yeap, he was a walking gun-free zone.
What the hell then... why did he own a gun since it’s against the law for him too...
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OtterbatHellcat
11-05-2017, 18:55
Much tougher laws are needed...clearly, that law didn't work.
Well, no ftf background checks are required in Texas, this will be sold as "if the gun show loophole was closed and ftf required a background check this would have never happened"..
Of course they won't mention the warning signs or.the fact that the guy probably would have been in a mental institution pre 1980s..
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
What the hell then... why did he own a gun since it’s against the law for him too...
Because he obtained it through a private party sale that "universal" background checks will fix... come on, you don't know the agenda here?
One more event carried out to kill the 2nd.
Aardvark
11-05-2017, 19:03
The Heavy article mentions his wife being from S.Springs and her mother attending that church. I wonder if the murderer had marital issues.
BushMasterBoy
11-05-2017, 19:17
From what I understand wife and children attended the church. Definitely sounds like he blamed the church for his marital issues.
OtterbatHellcat
11-05-2017, 19:18
These are interesting pieces of information, but I'm also curious what his DD was regarding.
Zundfolge
11-05-2017, 19:27
Correct me if I’m wrong doesn’t a court Marshal or Dishonorable discharge prevent you from owning a firearm?
I think that's only the case if the offense is a felony level offense.
Great-Kazoo
11-05-2017, 19:57
I think that's only the case if the offense is a felony level offense.
Not correct IF they answered 11g Yes it gets flagged
Instruction for Questions 11.b – 12 (Formerly Questions 11.b – 11.l): Added a new paragraph between the 1st and 2nd “A member of the Armed Forces must answer “yes” to 11.b. or 11.c. if charged with an offense that was either referred to a General Court Martial, or at which the member was convicted. Discharged “under dishonorable conditions” means separation from the Armed Forces resulting from a dishonorable discharge or dismissal adjudged by a General Court-Martial. The term does not include any other discharge or separation from the Armed Forces.”
BushMasterBoy
11-05-2017, 20:03
Dishonorable Discharge is a disqualifier under the Gun Control Act of 1968. There is no distinction between a felony and misdemeanor in a general court martial. Small crimes are usually dealt with non judicially.
Teufelhund
11-05-2017, 20:03
So tragic. Just sickening anyone could do such a thing.
I stopped carrying on a regular basis when we moved from Aurora to Elizabeth this summer. Sleepy little town where nothing ever happens... I bet that's what those poor folks in Sutherland Springs thought yesterday too.
Eye witness saying man with rifle fired at shooter:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BbInt8vlTrP/?taken-by=colionnoir
GilpinGuy
11-05-2017, 20:15
Eye witness saying man with rifle fired at shooter:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BbInt8vlTrP/?taken-by=colionnoir
I've heard rifle and I've heard shotgun. From a purely 2A political view, I hope it was a rifle. "See. A civilian with a rifle stopped a crime." The left says this never happens.
hollohas
11-05-2017, 20:19
Yup. This one checks off all the boxes. White guy. Scary black rifle. Military vet. Christian background (it's reported he taught Bible School at some point anyway). Picked up gun through likely private party. Darn near an entire building of casualties.
The bottom feeding sharks are circling already ready to stand in front of the cameras and spew their gun hating politics before these innocents' blood is dry.
Thank God for the good guy with the gun. This guy may have gotten away otherwise.
cableguy11
11-05-2017, 20:24
My old stomping grounds in that area. Haven't heard any news except for one of my buddies was good friends with the pastor.
hollohas
11-05-2017, 20:39
Good guys with guns actually jumped in their truck and pursued the bad guy with guns blazing apparently.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5052163/Up-27-shot-Texas-church-gunman-opens-fire.html
Bad guy's back window appears shot out.
And here's bad guy's yearbook picture. Looks totally normal. Nah. Looks like a total creep.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171106/2d31754dcee698b14a954c0df0644e24.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171106/1c32c264f5413d64e7e4ec997795b657.jpg
GilpinGuy
11-05-2017, 20:40
My old stomping grounds in that area. Haven't heard any news except for one of my buddies was good friends with the pastor.
Holy cow. Hopefully everyone you know is ok man.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171106/1c32c264f5413d64e7e4ec997795b657.jpg
To...
https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/kelley21.jpg
Yep, still creepy.
Great-Kazoo
11-05-2017, 21:10
To...
https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/kelley21.jpg
Yep, still creepy.
Killers come in all shapes and sizes. Looks have nothing to do what's in ones mind when they decide to Hold Court in the Street.
Bailey Guns
11-05-2017, 21:23
He was court-martialed in 2012 for assaulting his wife and his child. Kelley received a bad conduct discharge from the Air Force, in addition to confinement for 12 months and was reduced in rank.
So.. Lautenberg Amendment worked out well huh?
Courts martial, no problem
Dishonorable discharge, yes
However, I saw a report stating he received a Bad Conduct discharge - therefore no problem
OtterbatHellcat
11-05-2017, 21:47
Well I guess if you don't have a problem beating up your wife and your child.....that's Bad Conduct for certain. What a total Asshat.
Zundfolge
11-05-2017, 21:48
Courts martial, no problem
Dishonorable discharge, yes
However, I saw a report stating he received a Bad Conduct discharge - therefore no problem
But what about a Bad Conduct discharge for DV?
Antifa claiming responsibility yet?
GilpinGuy
11-05-2017, 22:03
Antifa claiming responsibility yet?
When I first woke up this afternoon and saw the headlines, the first thing I thought was "Oh shit, they really are serious". Nah, just another deranged individual doing deranged things. With hundreds of millions of people in this country there will be some small percentage who do insane things. Just a fact of life, no matter how sad and horrific it is.
But some asshat politician will once again propose a new law that will fix derangedness....not.
Bailey Guns
11-05-2017, 22:08
Antifa claiming responsibility yet?
Not that I've seen. But democrats are already on the "more gun control" bandwagon. As usual.
His Facebook page is linked to multiple Athiest sites
kidicarus13
11-05-2017, 23:50
Most importantly... prayers to all involved.
"The New York Times reported that the weapon Kelley used was once banned in the U.S. under an assault weapons ban of 1994 but became legal when the ban expired 10 years later."
Thank you NYT for stating irrelevant facts.
They missed the part where that ban was found to be ineffective. If they really wanted to be factual, Ruger was not making that rifle until after the ban's sunset, so the weapon used was not actually banned.
Shooter’s weapon described as AR-15 variant (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/shooter’s-weapon-described-as-ar-15-variant/ar-AAuugbj)
The 26-year-old man who walked into a Sutherland Springs church and opened fire did so with a variant of the AR-15, a popular rifle that is based on the military’s M-16, police said Sunday.
The rifle used by Devin Kelley was the Ruger AR-556, Texas Department of Public Safety Regional Director Freeman Martin said in a news conference.
The AR-15 is more of a category than a specific weapon. It is known for being customizable, with hundreds of variants, each with its own characteristics. Ruger’s AR-15 variant, the AR-556, comes with a suggested retail price of $849 and weighs 6.5 pounds.
GilpinGuy
11-06-2017, 01:07
Ruger’s AR-15 variant, the AR-556, comes with a suggested retail price of $849
[LOL] First Gooooooogle search result:
At an expected retail price of $599, Ruger is making it easier than ever for people to get into the AR-15 platform without breaking the bank. The Ruger AR-556 has anodized upper and lower receivers, both of which are forged from 7075-T6 aluminum.
F'ckin media sucks so bad.
KevDen2005
11-06-2017, 07:05
Still nothing about whether the car accident killed the dude or if he took a round from the citizen and bled out?
RCCrawler
11-06-2017, 07:39
So in 2012 he was court marshaled, and locked up for a year. Then in 2016 he bought his rifle FROM AN FFL. Does the military justice system not link up with the NICS system?
CNN reported that “Devin Kelley purchased the Ruger-AR556 rifle in April 2016 from an Academy Sports & Outdoors in San Antonio
Bitter Clinger
11-06-2017, 08:36
Still nothing about whether the car accident killed the dude or if he took a round from the citizen and bled out?
Here is some info. On my phone right now. Lots of pics of thw heroes. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5052815/Hero-tackled-armed-shooter-left-church.html?ITO=applenews
Great-Kazoo
11-06-2017, 09:04
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/texas-massacre-bystander-sprang-action-shooting-chasing-suspect-133305226--abc-news-topstories.html
I love how lefties are all butt-hurt about Trump / etc not calling this guy a "white domestic terrorist". Funny how after 8 years of bending over backwards to avoid saying "islamic terrorist" now they're super concerned about using the "[group] terrorist" label.
I didn’t have a good view of the TV screen but I could have sworn they said the guy had a carry permit as well.
hollohas
11-06-2017, 11:34
Still nothing about whether the car accident killed the dude or if he took a round from the citizen and bled out?The accident wasn't much of an accident. His vehicle didn't take much damage. He basically just drove off the road after swerving all over the place apparently. Sounds like he bled out. But there doesn't seem to be any solid statement regarding who's bullet did the trick. I've seen reports saying the good guy for sure shot him prior to the chase (which maybe why there are reports the bed guy dropped his rifle outside the church) and I've seen at least one report saying the police say he shot himself. Maybe both are true. Dunno?
EDIT - Sounds like both.
A Good Samaritan intervened, shooting Kelley as he left the church. Kelley then got into his car and fled, as the hero bystander and another man chased him in another car. Police say Kelley called his father as he was driving away from the church, telling him he was shot and didn't think he was going to make it.
The two men who pursued Kelley say he lost control of his car and crashed into a ditch. By the time police showed up on the scene, he was dead. The official cause of death is pending an autopsy, but officials believe he may have committed suicide through a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5054531/Shooter-targeted-church-ex-s-laws-worshiped.html
Zundfolge
11-06-2017, 12:19
best response to the hollywood left's nonsense on this
https://i.redd.it/70gihmab6dwz.png
68Charger
11-06-2017, 12:45
I'm seeing that this guy was in Colorado Springs previously, and may have purchased 2-3 firearms in CO (but the one used in the church was purchased at Academy Sports in San Antonio)...
Gotta wonder what's broken with the system that a court-martial for domestic battery wouldn't show up.
SideShow Bob
11-06-2017, 12:56
.
Gotta wonder what's broken with the system that a court-martial for domestic battery wouldn't show up.
Military court records vs civil court records ? Privacy act ? He just lied and said no military or who knows ?
Anyone here know if military records are accessed during a BGC ? Or if even military court records are linked into a civilian records check ?
SideShow Bob
11-06-2017, 13:04
Update from fox 31 news:
“Two of the four guns used were purchased in Colorado........ “
BlasterBob
11-06-2017, 14:10
Military court records vs civil court records ?
Anyone here know if military records are accessed during a BGC ? Or if even military court records are linked into a civilian records check ?
Sure hope we hear a reliable/accurate answer of if the military court records are or are not linked with civilian records. [blaster]
Unsure if accurate:
https://funnyjunk.com/channel/politics/Texas+church+shooter+tied+to+far+left+group/ahxtLnu/
vectorsc
11-06-2017, 14:48
Wouldn't surprise me if this wasn't anti-fa + go ahead and shoot the ex in-laws while he was at it... He did dress in all black, and flat out follow the anti-fa narrative.
SideShow Bob
11-06-2017, 15:05
Sure hope we hear a reliable/accurate answer of if the military court records are or are not linked with civilian records. [blaster]
What ?
You don’t want anyone finding out that you wore women’s underwear while you were enlisted ? ........... [LOL]
hollohas
11-06-2017, 15:37
Court-martialed for beating his infant stepson. Assaulted his wife. Arrested for beating a dog. Taking crazy pills. Living with his parents. Sent threatening texts to his in-laws. Yeah, this guy had a long history of being a lowlife creep.
Looks like he shot the church up from multiple locations outside based in all the evidence flags.
Even if anyone was carrying inside, they didn't stand a chance.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171106/3690ef7dce18909cc963d1d13cac5a04.jpg
I didn’t have a good view of the TV screen but I could have sworn they said the guy had a carry permit as well.
However, Texas Gov. Greg Abbott said Monday on “FOX & Friends” that Kelley was denied a gun permit in the state.
"He was rejected either because he did not fully answer all the questions that are required to get a Texas gun permit, or he answered those questions wrong, that we still don't know," Abbott said.
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hollohas
11-06-2017, 17:03
Here's a breakdown of the pursuit details that Rob Pincus posted...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171106/56fad35fe0952a920663919bedf463d9.jpg
thvigil11
11-06-2017, 17:44
Apparently the Air Force neglected to upload his file to the fed database. Therefore NCIC didn't know he was a shitbag.
RCCrawler
11-06-2017, 17:49
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/crime/air-force-failed-to-submit-texas-shooters-criminal-history
BlasterBob
11-06-2017, 17:51
What ?
You don’t want anyone finding out that you wore women’s underwear while you were enlisted ? ........... [LOL]
I’m trying to just understand that. [Dunno]
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/11/06/562320017/the-texas-church-shooter-should-have-been-legally-barred-from-owning-guns?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=202806
"He fractured his baby stepson's skull," Christensen says.
Kelley accepted a deal, pleading guilty to a charge of assault on his wife and to a charge of "intentionally inflicting grievous bodily harm" on the child, Christensen says. His crimes were punishable by up to five years confinement (the military equivalent of a prison term). As part of the deal, Kelley received an 18-month cap on his confinement and was ultimately sentenced to 12 months.
Kelley's punitive discharge — a bad conduct discharge — did not prohibit him from owning a gun, as a dishonorable discharge would have.
But under federal law, anyone convicted of "a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year" is prohibited from possessing a firearm. The same is true for anyone convicted of "a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence" under a provision that allows no exception for the military or law enforcement.
An official at the Pentagon tells NPR's Tom Bowman that a mistake resulted in neither the arrest nor the conviction being listed in the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, the database that would have flagged him as ineligible to purchase a firearm.
"This was mishandled by the Air Force Office of Special Investigations at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico, where Kelley was serving when he was arrested," Tom reports. "An investigation is now underway, and the Air Force is taking it very seriously, said the source."
Kelley purchased four guns over a four-year period, according to federal officials; all those purchases were made after his court-martial conviction.
NPR's Martin Kaste reports that Academy Sports & Outdoors, a store that sold Kelley guns, says it ran a background check on Kelley twice in the past two years. Kelley passed each time, the company says.
If Kelley's convictions were never uploaded into the system, that could easily explain how he passed. But even if they had been uploaded, there might still have been trouble getting information into the right hands — there's a sort of language barrier between military and civilian justice systems, Christensen says, with different terms for the same kinds of crimes. If the military described a general court-martial for assault, with sentence of one year, the civilian authorities might "never realize" it was a domestic violence conviction punishable by five years, he says.
BlasterBob
11-06-2017, 17:55
Apparently the Air Force neglected to upload his file to the fed database. Therefore NCIC didn't know he was a shitbag.
Well, the requirement WAS there but someone dropped the ball AGAIN. Of course, no one has made a guess that SOME of his weapons may have been purchased YEARS ago, before he went wacky and got in trouble while in the service.
hollohas
11-06-2017, 18:30
Video of the good guy.
http://www.4029tv.com/article/man-who-shot-texas-church-gunman-shares-his-story/13437943
It's a bit emotional.
"the best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry"
If you require perfection, humans are not your medium.
I like that a good guy with an AR stopped a bad guy hell-bent on destruction.
SideShow Bob
11-06-2017, 20:00
The evening news confirmed the scumbag had three gun shot wounds, two from the Good Samaritan, one self inflicted.
Zundfolge
11-06-2017, 21:16
Steven Crowder has interviewed Stephan Willeford about his shootout with the killer. Powerful interview.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4HEchh0XD8
Brave man; did what he had to do.
Keep your mags loaded.
KevDen2005
11-06-2017, 22:26
Steven Crowder has interviewed Stephan Willeford about his shootout with the killer. Powerful interview.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4HEchh0XD8
Dang that's intense.
Bailey Guns
11-07-2017, 07:48
Humble hero, for sure. Not to take away from the tragedy, but what a great example he makes of the pro-gun side when the inevitable political arguments start.
KevDen2005
11-07-2017, 09:11
Humble hero, for sure. Not to take away from the tragedy, but what a great example he makes of the pro-gun side when the inevitable political arguments start.
Bad guys hate when they have opposition.
Zundfolge
11-07-2017, 09:35
Keep your mags loaded.
Thought of this when he mentioned grabbing a handful of rounds and loading a mag on the way out the door.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J3Jm8HbHKU
I actually know a guy who thinks that Willeford is no hero, didn’t stop anything because lives were already taken, is just as bad as the shooter because he also had a gun and that he found an excuse to finally shoot someone because a crime was being committed. This is the insanity of the world we live in today.
KevDen2005
11-07-2017, 09:56
I actually know a guy who thinks that Willeford is no hero, didn’t stop anything because lives were already taken, is just as bad as the shooter because he also had a gun and that he found an excuse to finally shoot someone because a crime was being committed. This is the insanity of the world we live in today.
Absolutely ridiculous. Besides catching the guy in the act and taking part in stopping the act from continuing and assisting law enforcement in the initial stop since the first deputy was on scene by himself, he may have stopped a future attack on another group or future murders somewhere else from the same guy or a LEO's life when they would have located the person. It also sends the message that people are out there willing to defend others.
KevDen2005
11-07-2017, 09:57
Brave man; did what he had to do.
Keep your mags loaded.
I'm not sure I need 1000 mags loaded but I agree loaded mags is always a good idea.
I actually know a guy who thinks that Willeford is no hero, didn’t stop anything because lives were already taken, is just as bad as the shooter because he also had a gun and that he found an excuse to finally shoot someone because a crime was being committed. This is the insanity of the world we live in today.
It would seem that the responding sheriffs who ordered him back into a covering position w/ his rifle when he laid it down and raised his hands, think otherwise.
He also saved the SO the joy of paid leave during investigation for whatever officer would have shot the dude anyway.
Kev -- you have 1000 magazines? lol.
Zundfolge
11-07-2017, 10:18
I actually know a guy who thinks that Willeford is no hero, didn’t stop anything because lives were already taken, is just as bad as the shooter because he also had a gun and that he found an excuse to finally shoot someone because a crime was being committed. This is the insanity of the world we live in today.
You should hang out with better people :p
KevDen2005
11-07-2017, 10:31
Kev -- you have 1000 magazines? lol.
Maybe I do and Maybe I don't
I've said too much!
Maybe I do and Maybe I don't
I've said too much!
Don't you have qualified immunity or something due to having the full citizen shield?
You should hang out with better people :p
Last time I saw that prick was at last years Super Bowl party where he got intoxicated and executed a profanity laced tantrum on everyone around him, including children,cause his team was losing. Fuck that guy.
68Charger
11-07-2017, 11:19
I actually know a guy who thinks that Willeford is no hero, didn’t stop anything because lives were already taken, is just as bad as the shooter because he also had a gun and that he found an excuse to finally shoot someone because a crime was being committed. This is the insanity of the world we live in today.
Could you please do us a favor and ask him if he could wear something that identifies his position on this- so if any of us are in a situation where he could be in danger we know to NOT stop the bad person from raping/stabbing/killing/mugging/etc him- since he's apparently cool with that, but not with anyone defending someone else's life.
I think a giant dunce cap would be appropriate, but he can use whatever he likes that's uncommon enough that we won't mistake someone with a soul for him...
68Charger
11-07-2017, 11:20
Last time I saw that prick was at last years Super Bowl party where he got intoxicated and executed a profanity laced tantrum on everyone around him, including children,cause his team was losing. Fuck that guy.
saw this too late... but I'll pass.
Zundfolge
11-07-2017, 11:25
Pondering of the day:
What if the Texas church shooting was the rapture and those are the only ones that made it?
Then they would have no need for funerals because the novel Rapture theory (debuted in the early 1900s) posits the body is gone as well. Otherwise, everyone who dies is "raptured". Which makes it an ongoing thing and introduces a 4th theory into the current main three.
The rapture theory has no support in the entire history of the Church until about the last 100 years, and even then only in a subset which is itself novel within the Protestant milieu until rather recently. It's novel even within the context of the Protestant milieu at large, historically speaking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jED2D9pVkho
Very sad act of cowardice. Thought to the families, friends and survivors.
Stephen Willeford is a hero. He put himself in harm's way to help others. Those that think otherwise have a cranial rectal inversion.
As soon as I heard that the USAF dropped the ball in reporting his conviction to NCIC I had a thought- this is government, and all of it's inadequacies. Can someone please tell me how more government (capable of such errors quite frequently- remember the case of Rene Lima-Marin?) is the solution? While most are well intentioned, mistakes occur, and the bigger the bureaucracy the bigger the mistakes.
BushMasterBoy
11-07-2017, 12:22
Some other forum suggested this may have been the inspiration for the shooting. I will just post the link. You may not want to watch this in front of those gentle souls.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1WWDBTda2Y
Zundfolge
11-07-2017, 12:47
I've been waiting for people to make the connection to the Kingsman church scene (which was obviously a liberal fantasy).
As soon as I heard that the USAF dropped the ball in reporting his conviction to NCIC I had a thought- this is government, and all of it's inadequacies. Can someone please tell me how more government (capable of such errors quite frequently- remember the case of Rene Lima-Marin?) is the solution? While most are well intentioned, mistakes occur, and the bigger the bureaucracy the bigger the mistakes.
Some folks want 'laws' to protect them. Well, here you have a situation where there were many laws, and there was an utter failure of any protection whatsoever.
...but those folks don't learn from these situations.
Firehaus
11-07-2017, 19:36
Then they would have no need for funerals because the novel Rapture theory (debuted in the early 1900s) posits the body is gone as well. Otherwise, everyone who dies is "raptured". Which makes it an ongoing thing and introduces a 4th theory into the current main three.
The rapture theory has no support in the entire history of the Church until about the last 100 years, and even then only in a subset which is itself novel within the Protestant milieu until rather recently. It's novel even within the context of the Protestant milieu at large, historically speaking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jED2D9pVkho
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171108/cabf313f78f5dcf28e70bb515669e35a.png
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
bellavite1
11-07-2017, 19:48
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171108/cabf313f78f5dcf28e70bb515669e35a.png
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[ROFL3] WINNER!
But after that Rapture there would be the Rupture and the Risen would become the Fallen. So sad.
GilpinGuy
11-08-2017, 01:45
Once again.....thanks government!!! You failed yet again.
BushMasterBoy
11-08-2017, 09:38
After reading all the data published on the shooter I believe he was suffering from a traumatic brain injury. Apparently in 2009 he had a motorcycle accident. A lady pulled out in front of him and he slammed his Harley into her Buick. He complained of neck and head pain after that. It doesn't excuse his actions, but it explains the shooting. To me anyways.
hurley842002
11-08-2017, 09:43
It doesn't excuse his actions, but it explains the shooting. To me anyways.
Interesting, I've suffered head injuries, my father has suffered head injuries, several folks I know have suffered head injuries, yet none of us have shot up a church.
Zundfolge
11-08-2017, 09:48
Okay, okay i'll live with a penal colony on a passing asteroid or something. It's more humane, blah blah blah.
That would be awful expensive to get them there ... look, we have a mostly useless string of islands in the north Pacific called the Aleutians ... surely one or two of those would work.
ETA: Semisopochnoi Island looks about perfect
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semisopochnoi_Island
Great-Kazoo
11-08-2017, 10:33
After reading all the data published on the shooter I believe he was suffering from a traumatic brain injury. Apparently in 2009 he had a motorcycle accident. A lady pulled out in front of him and he slammed his Harley into her Buick. He complained of neck and head pain after that. It doesn't excuse his actions, but it explains the shooting. To me anyways.
Interesting, I've suffered head injuries, my father has suffered head injuries, several folks I know have suffered head injuries, yet none of us have shot up a church.
Or cold blooded pulled the trigger on babies. This guy had a lot of issues that were once again brushed off.
IMO this issue in today's society are people don't want to get involved due to the stigma of being called a racist (Berdoo shooting) or ostracized from the community once you contact some LE agency.
Or cold blooded pulled the trigger on babies. This guy had a lot of issues that were once again brushed off.
IMO this issue in today's society are people don't want to get involved due to the stigma of being called a racist (Berdoo shooting) or ostracized from the community once you contact some LE agency.
Can't disagree with you at all. Blame our mental health system for a lot, too, but the process of getting someone crazy committed involuntarily is so arduous. Thanks ACLU! Until we make society so hostile to the dangerously mentally ill, or make it so even they realize they won't be successful (an armed society and all that), these evil acts will continue to happen. Keep calm and carry daily.
That would be awful expensive to get them there ... look, we have a mostly useless string of islands in the north Pacific called the Aleutians ... surely one or two of those would work.
ETA: Semisopochnoi Island looks about perfect
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semisopochnoi_Island
Yep, we need a new Australia.
Or just bring back stoning.
BushMasterBoy
11-08-2017, 12:14
Simple forensic psychology.
It's likely this douche was indeed a classic sociopath(much like my eldest sister). It's also quite possible that he did receive a TBI that aggravated an existing problem with his frontal lobes, which lowered the threshold of impulse control. Either way, he should have been removed from society after his conviction for a helluva lot more than his one year confinement. The USAF clearly screwed the pooch on this one, in many different ways.
Waiting to hear what his parents have to say.
BushMasterBoy
11-08-2017, 15:47
DSM is garbage.
Zundfolge
11-08-2017, 15:47
Waiting to hear what his parents have to say.
if they have an IQ above 50 they'll never speak publicly.
His cruelty to children and animals are pretty huge signs that he was created by his parents through some form of abuse ... his parents created this monster, so fuck them.
hollohas
11-08-2017, 17:17
Hahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahaha
http://www.dailywire.com/news/23344/watch-usa-today-warns-people-beware-ar-15-armed-ryan-saavedra
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171108/19e9debf4ac4292b8966c00bf500a05c.jpg
thvigil11
11-08-2017, 17:26
Hahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahaha
http://www.dailywire.com/news/23344/watch-usa-today-warns-people-beware-ar-15-armed-ryan-saavedra
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171108/19e9debf4ac4292b8966c00bf500a05c.jpg
Didn't realize underbarrel shotguns were so readily available. Now I can re-enact all my favorite scenes from predator and starship troopers..
Zundfolge
11-08-2017, 17:49
also the magpul handguard is probably LESS "heat resistant" than a good old fashioned milspec one.
Great. Now Mark Larue is going to corner the market on chainsaws attached to AR's, and throw a hissy when Frank Galli shows that the chain has trouble returning to sharp after heavy usage on the red concrete balls outside the Westminster Target store.
KevDen2005
11-08-2017, 19:11
Didn't realize underbarrel shotguns were so readily available. Now I can re-enact all my favorite scenes from predator and starship troopers..
I need a chainsaw under my underbarrel shotgun
Hahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahaha
http://www.dailywire.com/news/23344/watch-usa-today-warns-people-beware-ar-15-armed-ryan-saavedra
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171108/19e9debf4ac4292b8966c00bf500a05c.jpg
That lighsaber attachment is actually kinda cool. Would that be NcSTAR, Leapers or Barska? Would it come with batteries too?
I am planning some "possible modifications" to my truck. I'll probably start small with one of those shoulder things that goes up and probably a bottle opener of some sort. Eventually I'll likely add some thermonuclear warheads, a stripper pole, a five gallon bucket of pickles, and maybe a change dispenser. And don't even get me started about all of the "possible modifications" I could make to my rifle.
Great. Now Mark Larue is going to corner the market on chainsaws attached to AR's, and throw a hissy when Frank Galli shows that the chain has trouble returning to sharp after heavy usage on the red concrete balls outside the Westminster Target store.
ROTFLMAO!! [ROFL1]
I am planning some "possible modifications" to my truck. I'll probably start small with one of those shoulder things that goes up and probably a bottle opener of some sort. Eventually I'll likely add some thermonuclear warheads, a stripper pole, a five gallon bucket of pickles, and maybe a change dispenser. And don't even get me started about all of the "possible modifications" I could make to my rifle.
No man's truck is complete without one of these:
72495
KevDen2005
11-08-2017, 20:08
No man's truck is complete without one of these:
72495
I always wonder why they sell balloons in truck stop bathrooms.
I need a chainsaw under my underbarrel shotgun
Camping will never be the same...
BushMasterBoy
11-08-2017, 20:31
For the prevention of future highway patrolmen!
Interesting, I've suffered head injuries, my father has suffered head injuries, several folks I know have suffered head injuries, yet none of us have shot up a church.
Yep, me too. I've never had the desire to bring harm to innocents.
KevDen2005
11-08-2017, 20:59
Camping will never be the same...
When you accidentally shoot the log you're trying to cut
No man's truck is complete without one of these:
72495
Pretty convenient that they sell gum so you can get that condom flavor out of your mouth.
Pretty convenient that they sell gum so you can get that condom flavor out of your mouth.
Complimentary product marketing can be very effective in boosting overall sales.
StagLefty
11-09-2017, 08:47
No man's truck is complete without one of these:
72495
Link ??? [ROFL3]
Great-Kazoo
11-09-2017, 09:01
Waiting to hear what his parents have to say.
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/texas-shooting-suspects-father-grieving-family-grieving-073004457--abc-news-topstories.html
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/texas-shooting-suspects-father-grieving-family-grieving-073004457--abc-news-topstories.html
It would have been better for his dad to say nothing at all...because his statements make you think, "Oh. Now I see why the kid was a sociopath."
Dragonman at it again, making gun owners seem like a bunch of nuts to the rest of the world.
What the 'most armed man in America' has to say about mass shootings (https://www.yahoo.com/gma/most-armed-man-america-mass-shootings-095805237--abc-news-topstories.html)
“Whatever the killer used, that’s what they want,” Bernstein, 71, said of his customers. “They want to feel the firepower. They want to have the gun just like that to show people.”
Um... no. It's because they sense a ban and want to be grandfathered/make a profit themselves if that ban talk gains traction. I believe he is projecting here.
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