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View Full Version : How is this a handgun?


al_g
10-18-2009, 20:06
http://www.legacysports.com/products/puma/puma_bhunterm87shot.html

A friend of mine pointed this out saying he wanted one after seeing Zombieland. So seeing the specs of a 12" barrel and overall 24" length I was thinking this sure looks like a SBR to me. Yet the site says Federal law considers it a handgun? Anyone have any insight into what exact makes a handgun, I thought the stock made it a rifle.
Dr_Fwd
10-18-2009, 20:13
looks SBR to me...
sniper7
10-18-2009, 20:16
not sure how they got this one by. i would research or call the ATF and find out. could be just like the "legal autosears" in shotgun news.[ROFL2]
BigMat
10-18-2009, 20:39
I would say that the stock has been cut down to such a length as to make it more like a pistol grip in terms of function.
DeusExMachina
10-18-2009, 21:40
Good old mare's leg.

The same reason why AR pistols aren't SBRs. They have no shoulder stock and are under 26" OAL and under 16" barrel.
Gritty
10-18-2009, 21:45
Legislators just make up things like that :D.
SAnd
10-19-2009, 03:28
If you build it on a reciever that never had a full stock and long barrel on it it can be a pistol. In other words if it never was a rifle to start with it can be a pistol.

The ATFE folks have already ruled on these guns. They used come with a ATFE letter saying that.

FWIW
Steve A.
MuzzleFlash
10-19-2009, 03:48
I would say that the stock has been cut down to such a length as to make it more like a pistol grip in terms of function.

We have a winner. The case was successfully made to ATF's FTB that the stock was too short to be shoulder fired. But as always, they could change their minds just like Lord Benson did for the street sweepers.
rhineoshott
10-19-2009, 09:56
Yep I agree. The stock looks cut funny (but still useable).

Wouldn't that be great if AR shorties were legal so long as the stock is fixed in a collapsed position! That wouldn't be too diferent from this
DeusExMachina
10-19-2009, 10:04
Yep I agree. The stock looks cut funny (but still useable).

Wouldn't that be great if AR shorties were legal so long as the stock is fixed in a collapsed position! That wouldn't be too diferent from this

You can still shoulder fire that...
BigMat
10-19-2009, 10:21
Next question is, does a store in Colorado have one?
Marlin
10-19-2009, 11:00
What's the point? Not one in .45/70....[Tooth]
DeusExMachina
10-19-2009, 11:05
What's the point? Not one in .45/70....[Tooth]

I don't think Puma makes the one model...might be able to find one in .45/70!
Marlin
10-19-2009, 11:07
I have seen them before.. Can't remember who was making it..Think it was Rossi. (Don't hold me to that though.) But, they are out there...
Irving
10-19-2009, 11:29
Looks like it should be a "Weapon Made from a Rifle" to me. Still not a pistol though, since it originally had a buttstock.
DeusExMachina
10-19-2009, 11:34
Looks like it should be a "Weapon Made from a Rifle" to me. Still not a pistol though, since it originally had a buttstock.

They're made from receivers that were never rifles, have no buttstock, are under 26" OAL, and have a shorter than 16" barrel. Therefore they are pistols, according to the BATF.
Irving
10-19-2009, 11:44
So they weren't chopped by an aftermarket company, but they actually just built the smaller stocks around the factory fresh receivers?
DeusExMachina
10-19-2009, 11:47
So they weren't chopped by an aftermarket company, but they actually just built the smaller stocks around the factory fresh receivers?

Yep. Here's a pretty good article about them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mare%27s_Leg
Irving
10-19-2009, 11:50
I checked out the link more closely, and the new question is, "Why would anyone want that gun?"

What is the point of a shorter rifle, if it is only a pistol caliber to begin with? You can't shoot it like a rifle, and it looks awkward at best to hold like a pistol. Not to mention that it is a lever gun, making it more awkward to use without a buttstock. Now if it were a shotgun, then we'd be talking.
DeusExMachina
10-19-2009, 12:10
It comes in .44-40, too. Thats a rifle cartridge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5E_N7X8a-E
Marlin
10-19-2009, 12:27
.44/40, like many of the cartridges of the time worked in both.. Just a matter of ease....
Marlin
10-19-2009, 12:43
To answer Sturtle,,,

If I could find on in .45/70 or even .454,, oh yeah, I'd be all over one of those..

The only problem with the .45/70 is it would only be a 2+1..

The .454 that would be awesome,, if I can get about 1800fps out of my 8 1/4" barrel,, anybody that can do the math? same load out of a 16" barrel.. [Tooth]
BigMat
10-19-2009, 13:46
I am not sure of this, but if it is similar in terms of function to a AR with a collapsible stock fully closed then I could understand it for sure. especially if it came in a few larger calibers, but in the 44mag I could see it as a very handy camping/truck gun as it doesn't weight much, nice profile for carry, and wouldn't be nearly as evil looking as a light AR. If it can only be shot off hand, I have no idea, and I think that's how its legally intended to be used, but if you could tuck into it, I could understand it, and want one.
BigMat
10-19-2009, 13:46
Also, its a gun, so I want one for that reason too
Irving
10-19-2009, 13:54
Also, its a gun, so I want one for that reason too

We have a winner right here. Sometimes I forget to look at things in this light. I just wouldn't want it for the price.
MichiganMilitia
10-19-2009, 13:55
Also, its a gun, so I want one for that reason too

+1 for good rationale [Beer]
BigMat
10-19-2009, 17:16
We have a winner right here. Sometimes I forget to look at things in this light. I just wouldn't want it for the price.


agreed. Sadly I run into that problem all the time with guns, if a SCAR-L was only $800 I would own one.

If I could find one of these for eh, $250 or so, I would think about it, just as a contrast to a pump shotgun that I would probably use in the same capacity. very seriously, if it came in 45-70 or something that could pull some power out of that tiny barrel, and could hold more than two in the tube.
Gritty
10-22-2009, 23:37
agreed. Sadly I run into that problem all the time with guns, if a SCAR-L was only $800 I would own one.

If I could find one of these for eh, $250 or so, I would think about it, just as a contrast to a pump shotgun that I would probably use in the same capacity. very seriously, if it came in 45-70 or something that could pull some power out of that tiny barrel, and could hold more than two in the tube.


If scars were $800 everyone would own more than five :D.
MuzzleFlash
10-23-2009, 04:27
Steve McQueen popularized the Mare's Leg in some of his westerns. I wonder when someone will make a 30 cal 1919 Browning pistol, LOL!
ryanek9freak
10-23-2009, 06:06
F that. It's cool looking, but pretty useless. I agree with Sturtle. I'd just go buy a handgun in that caliber.
Krasni
09-01-2010, 17:24
Awesome! I was just trying to figure out what the hell this thing was when I stumble on this thread.

In 357/38, pretty rocking from Rossi! (Also listed as a pistol).

http://www.lipseys.com/eImages/Rossi%20M92%20Ranch%20Hand.JPG
DD977GM2
09-01-2010, 17:28
Not an NFA firearm. It is classified as a pistol so no tax stamp required. [Beer]
mx'r
09-01-2010, 17:30
That would be one sweet truck gun!
Krasni
09-01-2010, 17:47
When I first saw it I thought "how ugly" but I have to admit it has grown on me. In 357 that'd be a heap of fun.
Elhuero
09-01-2010, 18:51
That would be one sweet truck gun!


I think that's the only thing I'd use it for.
Byte Stryke
09-01-2010, 19:21
I think that's the only thing I'd use it for.

Pack gun
especially in the larger calibers
GlockDog47
09-01-2010, 19:28
I like it... Truck gun or just zombie killer...lol
Beprepared
09-01-2010, 19:44
I think these folks made(via Chiappa) the earlier modern model. They probably did BATF leg work for Rossi(Chiappa) to mass produce.
http://www.jbcustom.com/page79.html

http://images.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/collectorsarmoury/images/AR22701.jpg
Krasni
09-01-2010, 19:50
That looks sweet. Imagine open carrying with that thing the next time you fill up the gas tank.
Paladin
09-01-2010, 22:43
In the late fifties/early sixties, Steve McQeen played a bounty hunter named Josh Randall in the TV series Wanted, Dead or Alive. The weapon he used was a cut-down Winchester. The gun is also known as a Mare's leg. Somewhere on the net is a really good article about it. Good luck,
Dave
Bailey Guns
09-02-2010, 04:52
They're not due to start shipping to distributors until some time in November.
mx'r
09-02-2010, 15:12
I think i might need one [Tooth].
Troublco
09-02-2010, 17:14
I want one in .45 Colt for a pack gun/truck gun/fun gun/just 'cause I'm sure there are people out there who don't think I should be able to have one, gun.

(That last one is the same reasoning that led to acquiring multiple AR's, come to think of it......)
RYAN50BMG
09-02-2010, 17:30
I,m pretty sure Spec. Sports in CS has something like that.Seems like I,ve seen one in passing but do not know any specs.