View Full Version : Anyone else pissed about HK sueing ATI over the GSG-5? Get in here.
I am for one pissed that HK sued them for making a tribute gun in their likeness and instead of HK pulling its head out of the sand and noticing the serious amount of money in the civilian market. What did they do? They sued ATI for making a gun similar to the MP5. So I went to they website and looked on their forums while I saw a bunch of spam messages I didn't see any about the GSG-5.
In case they don't know what a BS move this is on their parts I wanted to let them know and thought maybe you would like to say a few words to them too.
Here is their customer service email. (I assume its for military and police use only too, but I don't see any laws against us using it) cs@heckler-koch-us.com
Send them an email if you have a GSG and are scratching your head wondering where you are going to buy more magazines or plinkers from? Ask if HK is going to license out their design or if they are going to start selling to the real gun lovers, the law abiding citizens of the world?
Thanks for letting me rant. I hope you can send and email sharing your distaste for their actions. And post your responses if you get any.
[M2]
Here is a thread I started on their site.
http://www.hk-usa.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5475
Its a good ol fashion fire mission.
I don't see how they can win. Colt couldn't stop other manufacturers from making AR's and those are identical in look and internal function. A GSG-5 may look like an MP5 on the outside, but internally it's a totally different design. The GSG-5 forum on arfcom had some info on this and it seems GSG/ATI won some early victories in the pre-trail stuff. But yeah, this is pretty lame on HK's part.
I bet if HK were suing some Chinese company for copying their design, no one would care.
DeusExMachina
10-19-2009, 11:38
They have already won. Under the threat of lawsuit, HK bullied GSG into ceasing production later this year, and ceasing sales in January of 2010.
Oh yeah, it is over. I missed that part of the tread. Good luck getting spare parts for those after 2010. Guess the amount of $ needed to fight in court exceeded the expected profit.
I think they may license GSG to sell their gun~ if they pay a fee. But I don't want HK prices for a toy.
Maybe HK should make a true HK design available in mass quantities for a slightly higher price and jump in on the market.
or they should sell their guns at reasonable prices to us.
if not, then the GSG5 is the best way to go.
GreenScoutII
10-19-2009, 16:12
they should sell their guns at reasonable prices to us.
Thats always been my beef with HK. I understand its a premium firearm, but seriously, at what point is a guy just paying for a name?
Bailey Guns
10-20-2009, 08:01
This rant is slightly off topic, but...
HK makes fine products. In my opinion, no better, no worse, than any other top gun maker. And quite frankly, what have they done, in quite some time, that's any different than anyone else. It's not like any of their products are revolutionary or anything. I guess I just don't see the whole "HK Mystique".
Shortly after I opened my store in the fall of 2000 I contacted the HK sales rep for this area and signed on as a "Premier HK Dealer"...top of the line buy-in back then. Cost me the better part of $20K. Not only that, but I had to buy a lot of guns I really didn't want for the privilege of sticking the HK decal on the window.
In Bailey, at least, HK sales weren't forcing me to make a lot of unexpected trips to the bank, if you get my drift. But they did sell...eventually. I decided to submit my next dealer order, put in the order, sent a check...again for $19K +, and patiently waited for the guns to trickle in.
About 2 weeks after sending them the check, a customer came in and bought one of the HK Fabarm shotguns I'd had for about 10 months. Woo-hoo! Finally moved one. There was a catch, though. He wanted some additional choke tubes...about $50 worth. No problem. I got on the phone with my sales guy and said, "I need a set of these choke tubes." He said, "Great. What else do you need?" "Nothing," I said. "Sorry," said MR HK rep, "Your accessory order must be $500." "But I just ordered $19K worth of stuff less than two weeks ago," I said. Needless to say, I couldn't order the choke tubes for this customer. He could go online and order them as a non-dealer customer. I couldn't.
I called the bank and found my check to HK had not cleared. I stopped payment on it. I boxed up every HK gun I had, called UPS for a pickup, and sent their shit back to them. I called the sales department, told them I stopped payment on the check and told them to expect a couple of big boxes from UPS. Also told them I'd expect a prompt credit for the items I was returning.
To be fair, they issued a credit check quite promptly...less than 30 days. But shortly after that phone call I got a call from their credit dept saying a check I had written hadn't cleared. I told them I stopped payment and to check with sales. After that, I never dealt with them again.
HK sucks huge. I wouldn't spend my money with HK if they were the only gun company on the planet. Their products are OK, their company business philosophy BLOWS as does their customer service.
One other horror story. A customer came in and bought a USP Compact in .357 Sig. He brings it back about a week later and claims it's shooting 10 inches low at 10 yards. Now, I told him I'd take care of it and return it if necessary, no problem. However, I'm thinking to myself, "This guy just doesn't know how to shoot." You know...the whole - I'm the all knowing gun-shop owner, experienced shooter, yada yada thing. I knew if I took the gun out and shot it myself I'd prove the customer wrong.
So I took the gun out and shot it. Sure enough, just like I figured, the customer was wrong. It wasn't shooting 10" low at 10 yds...it was shooting about 15" low at 10 yds. Apparently, there was a front sight height problem. I returned the gun to HK in Oct. I received the gun back from HK...after giving the customer a refund for having to wait several months for his gun...in April. 6 months. The repair invoice said, "Incorrect front sight installed. Replaced front sight." Holy shit! They managed to do all that in the world record time of 6 months! What an outfit.
I hate HK.
You can have 'em.
Just MY experiences and opinions.
But if it'll save just one person from buying HK stuff, won't it be worth it?
Did I mention HK SUCKS?
ColoEnthusiast
10-20-2009, 08:25
Guess I won't be dropping any $ on HK arms anytime soon. The lawsuit is BS and apparently just forced a company from making a fun product that cost HK absolutely no sales whatsoever, seeing as they don't sell a GSG of their own. If anything, it put attention on mp5's if you ask me...
Although I have never dealt with HK, I have never ever heard anything good about their policies or customer service.
Wasn't there some sort of snafu about HK ar lowers a few years ago and threats to consumers?
Bailey Guns
10-20-2009, 08:35
Mikhail Kalashnikov should jump on the "Sue ATI Bandwagon" for making their GSG AK47.
Daniel_187
10-20-2009, 09:30
Wow after reading Bailey Guns Post wow, But I guess am not surprized. I had the same shit happen with Benelli, God I F-ing hate them. Not to hijack the tread, but this is why I only buy American made now. I have had outstanding service with Savage, and others
You should check out the name calling and childish behavior I'm getting at the HK website. The link is in the OP, BTW. The lowered me to their level a few times but I'm trying to maintain my composure as much as I can. But the HK Kool-Aid drinkers are as bad as Obama cockpleasers were on Nov. 4. Now I ask them what ever happened to your O sticker? They don't want to talk about it. But I digress. Its a huge PITA trying to get anything out of them.
DeltaKilo
10-20-2009, 18:45
Glad I bought that M&P instead of the HK45 i was thinking about.
coloradoglock
03-06-2010, 20:31
Incase you have not seen it yet the new MP5 in .22 is out from Umarex. This one is licensed from H&K so it will be here to stay.
http://www.hk22rimfire.com/images/2245260_rs_t.jpg (http://www.hk22rimfire.com/images/2245260_rs.jpg)
http://www.hk22rimfire.com/
The HK version looks pretty sweet to me. I still have a hard time thinking about dropping $500+ on a .22. I would rather buy a couple more 10/22s, or get a super accurate decked out 10/22.
I have fondled the S&W and the COLT .22 guns and didn't really like either of them. i think i will go the spikes tactical route and get a dedicated .22 upper instead and just build a complete AR out of it!
Maybe once I handle the HK I might be enticed to change my mind but for now the looks are great, but not nearly enough to go drop the money on one.
That's great news. I thought HK would never pull their head from their bottom lines. Me likey the SD version.
Colorado Osprey
03-07-2010, 07:32
What I always thought was funny about the lawsuit is they pay CETME for copying the delay roller design. Then they produce a bunch of guns based on that design without paying CETME. Now they threaten to sue someone else for copying their design?? WTF??!
On a slightly different topic:
It always amazes me how many HK owners talk trash asbout CETME when that is the design that their gun is copied from.
To me that would be like Taurus owners talking trash about S&W or Beretta on how much better their guns are.
My problem with the whole thing is, I haven't been able to buy the design that I liked because HK thinks my money or integrity isn't has good as a government contract. When GSG made a real enough copy for me to play with I didn't really care that it didn't shoot 9mm. I wanted one. If this new company will sell them I feel bad that GSG caved because they had great costumer support but I will still buy from this other company. They better try hard to be better than GSG and live up to HK's reputation for quality. I can live with out HK's reputation for high prices though.
ryanek9freak
03-13-2010, 19:57
No surprise there - ATI proved there was a market for the product so HK found someone to produce it that they could control and get a few bucks out of.
I do like the looks of the barrel sleeve/faux suppressor better than the GSG-5 though.
I bought my GSG-5 last year and still haven't shot even one round through it. I replaced the stock with a folding stock and picked up a total of 5 mags for it and there it sits. I had planned to take it with me to the range today before that whole trip fell apart. I'm toying with the idea of selling the thing to help fund a Sig Sauer P250.
I just picked up one of the last few remaining second gen's, and this one is the 1st anniversary edition, with the silver receiver and barrel, marked "GSG-5 First Anniversary Edition" I figured what the hell, I've been wanting one, and the guy at Specialty Sports gave me a deal on it.
Thomas, FYI Specialty has a P250 "Kit" that comes with 2 different size frames, one full size, one compact, I beleive it's a 40 S&W. Comes in a nice blue foam lined case. Can't recall the price though.
theGinsue
03-13-2010, 20:35
I just saw the same thing in 9mm @ Sportsmans yesterday for $7xx.xx. That's what got me motivated to get one. I love how quickly and easily you can convert it. You can spend another $300 to get the parts for another caliber - thus making LOTS of different handgun possibilities for little money. I even liked the feel of the sub-compact configuration - it just felt good in my hand.
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