Diagnosing feeding issue on a E-friends AR.

[fitz19d]

Have a friend I made thru truck parts that has gotten into guns recently. We don't really meet up so I am not there to look at it myself and I'm not the most qualified anyways.

He has the newest Ruger MPR their like 18" AR.

He's using Wolf military classic steel case. It used to run fine when he first got it but now is having feed issues. Issues seem to resolve if he lubes the cases with hoppes. Using pmags I believe should be new. I advised him to try some brass cased and see if it's still happening.

He stated ""It’d fire one round and immediately jam with the next round, have to eject the mag and the following round would fall out
Or what else happened was it would fire the first loaded round and not cycle the next one at all, press the trigger and it would act as if it the mag was empty"" <---EDIT said it just didnt chamber a round when I asked, and when it was jamming round was sitting angled up he believes

I sent some clarifying questions, but I'm all over from just a bad magazine vs maybe a out of spec or messed up ramp/chamber to just the gun doesnt like steel (though seems odd sense it ran it fine to start)

[DenverGP]

The steel cases are coated in lacquer, and that lacquer can built up on the chamber, resulting in cases sticking. Clean the chamber well, and either use better ammo, or accept that he'll need the clean the chamber more often with the steel cased stuff.

I've also seen issues shooting the lacquer steel cases, then switching to brass, the brass will also stick due to the lacquer buildup.

My first ar had a chamber that was slightly too tight and/or just slightly rough. I put some fine steel wool on a bore brush, chucked it into a drill and ran it at fairly low speed a bit, polished the chamber up perfectly, never another stuck case.

[fitz19d]

I had mentioned with swapping ammo types I'd heard of those issues. I thought the wolf gold or some of the newer steel stuff didnt have the lacquer problem.

Any tips on cleaning lacquer since he'd said he'd bore snaked it at least.

[Bailey Guns]

I don't think Wolf has been lacquer coated in forever. If the Wolf cases are gray, it's not lacquered. Regardless, that shouldn't be the problem.

Having said that, switching ammo is the first, and simplest, thing to try. I had a customer gun (carbine length) that was doing what sounds like the same thing. I tried everything to resolve it. Finally switched out the gas tube. Worked perfectly after that.

[Mazin]

How many rounds through it? Wolf is dirty stuff so maybe a gas issue? I've handled a lot of rifles that have had wolf ammo stuck in the chamber so it could be that too. Clean it really good also maybe break it down and check the bcg, chamber etc for metal gouges.

[Mazin]

How many rounds through it? Wolf is dirty stuff so maybe a gas issue? I've handled a lot of rifles that have had wolf ammo stuck in the chamber so it could be that too. Clean it really good also maybe break it down and check the bcg, chamber and feeding areas etc for metal gouges. Might want to make sure the gas block hasn't moved ether, if it's not pinned that might be a issue as well

[Erni]

On an old A1 I had Wolf would stick and not eject. It was a slow lot and just not enough ooomph to run the gun right.

[Great-Kazoo]

For some reason wolf seems to be a tad underpowered for some AR's , depending what the gas port dia is. IF he's not willing to try brass case ammo, you're wasting time trying to assist.

Also wolf is steel case but not lacquer coated,like the old AK ammo was.

[SideShow Bob]

Also wolf is steel case but not lacquer coated,like the old AK ammo was.

But it is Poly coated....

[OtterbatHellcat]

The kid and I have had problems with Wolf ammo feeding in a few different guns. For us, it was my SK's and his AK.

[Great-Kazoo]

But it is Poly coated....

They call it that, i've yet to have an issue due to fouled chamber from wolf or tula

[Bailey Guns]

They call it that, i've yet to have an issue due to fouled chamber from wolf or tula

Same here and I've shot untold thousands of round of the stuff thru my ARs (mostly Colts) and 1911s (mostly Colts or Kimbers). Many years ago during another ammo shortage steel cased Russian ammo was all I could find. I decided then that I won't own a gun that doesn't reliably shoot steel cased ammo in the common calibers. There are so many myths about the stuff...but that's OK. People don't wanna use it, that's fine. More for me.

Some of the Russian stuff is a little underpowered like you said. But it was never enough to make my guns not work.

I did have a new version of the Mini-30 that wouldn't shoot the Russian military stuff. Apparently the primers were very hard. It would dent the hell out of 'em but wouldn't ignite them. Shot fine with other stuff.

[BPTactical]

So your shooting shit ammunition in your AR and your having cycling issues?

Found your problem.



Laquer or Poly makes no difference, straight walled chambers don't steel cased ammunition.
Steel is less elastic than brass. You fire a brass cased round, the case expands upon firing and then contracts which helps during extraction.
Fire a steel cased round, it expands but does not contract the way a brass case does.
Worst case scenario you have a stuck casing in the chamber with a head ripped off.
A tighter than normal chamber exasperates the issue.

You don't have a feeding issue, you have a cycling / timing issue.
The steel case being sticky in the chamber slows down the bolt carriers rearward travel. It slows it down to the point where although it ejects the fired casing and strips a new round from the magazine it lacks sufficient velocity to reliably feed / seat the new round.
The rifle is essentially short stroking.
Add the fact that:
A - CommBloc ammo is typically lower powered.
B- It is filthy, sooty crap.


Run shit ammo, get shit ammo problems and learn to deal with it.

[fitz19d]

I knew I dreaded bringing up steel. Half yall love it half yall are metalurgy racists lol.

Not sure if by "you" you mean a general yall vs just me since it's not my rifle. FWIW I also only shoot brass but I don't strongly hate on steel just knew it had potential issues and especially these days the savings is not that huge.

Probably makes sense that especially with possibly a odd length/don't know what length gas system that it may be more sensitive to the issues above.

Really that's what I've told him at this point even before posting. Need to add/subtract a few factors (mainly ammo) to further whiddle down possibilities.


He did find this video though

https://youtu.be/umgV56YNtL4?t=6m52s


https://youtu.be/umgV56YNtL4?t=6m52s

And the solution this guy had.


https://youtu.be/VkF40UvbYDs?t=1m30s

[colorider]

I have an LMT and a PSA rifle that will not run with Tula or Wolf steel cases ammo. They eat any and all brass cased ammo with zero issues. If he wants cheap brass anmo, they Wolf gold works flawlessly in everything I own. Great stuff for the price.