View Full Version : Senate Passes Sweeping Republican Tax Overhaul Bill
Senate Passes Sweeping Republican Tax Overhaul Bill (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/senate-passes-sweeping-republican-tax-overhaul-bill/ar-BBG1kUn)
Senators voted 51-49, as Republicans approved the nearly 500-page bill in the early morning hours after lawmakers received a rewritten version (https://www.budget.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/TAX%20SUBSTITUTE.pdf), which contained significant changes from the original bill that passed two Senate panels last month along party lines. The last-minute revisions prompted an outcry from Democrats, who said it was impossible — and irresponsible — for lawmakers to read and digest a significant piece of legislation in such a short period of time.
Speaking on the Senate floor ahead of the vote, Senator Chuck Schumer, Democrat of New York and the minority leader, called the Republican approach “a process and a product that no one can be proud of and everyone should be ashamed of.”
One has to wonder what kind of bloat and special interests are in that mess. It's not hypocritical at all of the Dems to be whining about a big bill when they jammed Obamacare down our throats without even reading the damn thing.
Hopefully it's an improvement, but the devil is in the detail.
Unless every line says. Repeal this rule. I don't trust it.
kidicarus13
12-02-2017, 14:42
If Schumer is speaking out against it, I'm all for it.
wctriumph
12-02-2017, 16:41
Whatever it ends up being, I am sure that I will get screwed again.
Whatever it ends up being, I am sure that I will get screwed again.
Like and agree.
I don't know any more about it than the rest of you, but what I did catch, watching the local networks spews the other night:
Dims screeching in protest about breaks for "regular folks" expiring, while breaks for "the rich" and big business not expiring.
The Rub: THEY DON'T EXPIRE FOR TEN YEARS!
Sure, sure, know one will ever change the tax code again, ever. Sheesh. But it's that kind of demonstrating the low info crowd eats up and responds to.
Got to rally those troops for mid-terms next year... By any and all means possible, honest or not. :(
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Seems to me that a good tax break that affects everyone across the board will always give a bigger break to the rich because they make more money and pay more taxes. That's just math, yet there is always complaining about it.
Zundfolge
12-02-2017, 19:15
Until the 16th amendment is repealed and the Federal Reserve shuttered, this is all just re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic ... that doesn't mean I won't enjoy sitting in the chairs while we wait for the iceberg.
SideShow Bob
12-02-2017, 22:31
“You don’t need to read it, just vote it in......”
Where have we heard that before ?
Now the House and Senate hash it out, hopefully President Trump will have a bill to sign before Christmas.
This is not tax reform, it will just add more complication to the already 39000+ pages of the IRS code. No piece of legislation should be 475 pages long. Period.
BladesNBarrels
12-03-2017, 16:45
It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood.
James Madison 1778
The IRS Code is the prime example
Just a question: and I'm not starting a fight or anything, but has anyone here read the bill? I skimmed through about 50+ pages of it over the weekend, and it lowers a lot of tax rates (most of the fluff is applying the changes to existing tax code so that it's all legit- at least within the first 100 pages or so). Analysis done on the tax bill shows that it will increase economic growth- with analysis done showing worst case as being $950B added to debt over 10 years (which is a drop in the bucket compared to what Obama did over the course of 8 years).
Here's a link to the bill if anyone wants to take the time to read it themselves:
https://www.scribd.com/document/363309136/Republican-Tax-Bill
Haven't had a chance to read, and the few times I've attempted to read bills I wasn't sure if I was reading them correctly due to lack of knowledge on how a word might be used, its definitional boundaries, etc.
Reading these, it looks like it will be good for the poor and middle class:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-the-gop-tax-bill-will-impact-middle-class-and-wealthy-taxpayers-2017-11-03
https://www.thebalance.com/gop-tax-plan-winners-and-losers-4154293
Apparently legislators in high tax states are bitching because it "hurts" their constituents with the local and state tax deduction eliminated. Ummmm, no. What hurts their constituents is the high taxes and bloated state and local governments. That the Fed is no longer going to subsidize this is the problem of the local and state govs, not the people or the Fed. It *should* kick those voters in the rear to undo the harm they've done to themselves.
States with no income tax are going to look a lot more appealing if it passes.
I read an article that had tables based on the current brackets, the House proposed brackets, and Senate proposed brackets. They listed both filing singly and married filing jointly. It really looks like small business owners that file jointly won't get reamed like the current taxation scheme. That should be good for business.
ETA: found the link to the brackets; http://www.businessinsider.com/tax-brackets-2018-trump-tax-plan-chart-house-senate-comparison-2017-11
States with no income tax are going to look a lot more appealing if it passes.
I read an article that had tables based on the current brackets, the House proposed brackets, and Senate proposed brackets. They listed both filing singly and married filing jointly. It really looks like small business owners that file jointly won't get reamed like the current taxation scheme. That should be good for business.
ETA: found the link to the brackets; http://www.businessinsider.com/tax-brackets-2018-trump-tax-plan-chart-house-senate-comparison-2017-11
Thanks for sharing that. My wife seems to be unhappy about this, as she runs a small business and is under the impression that she can no longer file taxes with losses as a deduction (I'm not keen on this, hence why I have an accountant), but says this plan is flawed. Can anyone answer that definitively?
From what I can find, that's false. It was basically a viral Facebook post that started the rumor. Even Snopes (the left) says it's BS.
What the Senate Tax Plan Means for Small Business (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/senate-tax-plan-means-small-140100469.html)
The Senate decided to give small businesses a tax break by offering their owners a deduction on a portion of the income that passes through to their individual tax returns. Under the final proposal, qualifying business owners will be able to deduct 23% of their pass-through income on their tax returns, subject to a limit of 50% of wage income in order to prevent potential abuse. Many service providers are ineligible for the deduction, with the intent being to favor more typical small businesses compared to the professional business entities that many sole proprietors and single-member LLCs use. This provision will be in place until the end of 2025, after which it would potentially disappear under the sunset provisions of the bill.
The approach that the Senate took differs fundamentally from how the House approached the issue. Rather than offering a deduction, the House suggested changing the tax rate that applied to the business income that pass-through businesses generated. A maximum tax rate of 25% would have applied to pass-through income, but limitations would have treated 70% of income as wages at the full ordinary tax rate unless a business could prove that a different percentage was appropriate. An even lower rate of 9% would apply to businesses earnings less than $75,000. Professional services companies, such as those operated by lawyers and accountants, would have been excluded from the preferential rate entirely.
Great-Kazoo
12-05-2017, 23:47
States with no income tax are going to look a lot more appealing if it passes.
Give them a real hard look. "Some" make up for that No Income Tax through other means such as food, alcohol, property tax, on line and overall in store sales. Looked at NV, between property taxes, on line purchases and other smaller items. I'd rather pay SIC, and save money.
hurley842002
12-06-2017, 00:05
Give them a real hard look. "Some" make up for that No Income Tax through other means such as food, alcohol, property tax, on line and overall in store sales. Looked at NV, between property taxes, on line purchases and other smaller items. I'd rather pay SIC, and save money.Yup, one of my buddies at work moved here from Texas and said they hit him hard on the property taxes.
Then there are states like CO that hit you with income tax, property tax, insane vehicle registration fees, sales tax, libtards making TABOR pointless...
Pick your poison. Every state has its own tax package.
Those that had high income taxes that taxpayers will no longer be able to deduct from fed taxes will take a bigger bite.
Yup, one of my buddies at work moved here from Texas and said they hit him hard on the property taxes.
Did he also tell you what he paid to register his vehicles? Brace yourself for the answer.
In TX, property taxes are probably the majority of taxes paid, unless your spending is really high which will kick up the total in sales taxes.
Supposedly we are just under Texas when comparing income, property, sales, excise:
https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494/
Supposedly we are just under Texas when comparing income, property, sales, excise:
https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494/
Depends on how you view the data. These are not raw tax %, but based on taxes as a % of total income.
I'll see your list and raise you. ;-)
https://www.forbes.com/pictures/emeg45ehhij/tax-burden-state-by-sta/
Forbes list using actual tax data from last year in descending order. Colorado was 16, Texas was 5.
This type of data must be difficult to compile since government started hiding taxes as "fees".
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Great-Kazoo
12-06-2017, 08:04
Did he also tell you what he paid to register his vehicles? Brace yourself for the answer.
In TX, property taxes are probably the majority of taxes paid, unless your spending is really high which will kick up the total in sales taxes.
When it cost me $100 to re-register my truck here and $800 annually for property tax. The property tax on the same size lot with home in TX is 3x higher. So the lower registering of my truck in TX does not offset the higher property tax.
It doesn't matter where you live. Somehow, someway the .gov entities always find a way to take from you with minimal return.
When it cost me $100 to re-register my truck here and $800 annually for property tax. The property tax on the same size lot with home in TX is 3x higher. So the lower registering of my truck in TX does not offset the higher property tax.
It doesn't matter where you live. Somehow, someway the .gov entities always find a way to take from you with minimal return.
The lack of state income tax makes up for it
I'll see your list and raise you. ;-)
https://www.forbes.com/pictures/emeg45ehhij/tax-burden-state-by-sta/
Forbes list using actual tax data from last year in descending order. Colorado was 16, Texas was 5.
This type of data must be difficult to compile since government started hiding taxes as "fees".
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Have to reload page to get each state to advance to next pic. Guessing this is a result of #allthesecurity, so will have to view at home.
Give them a real hard look. "Some" make up for that No Income Tax through other means such as food, alcohol, property tax, on line and overall in store sales. Looked at NV, between property taxes, on line purchases and other smaller items. I'd rather pay SIC, and save money.
Agreed. Let's also not forget a lot of states (like Florida) have toll roads everywhere, which makes up for no income tax. And then there's NY, which has high taxes on everything AND toll roads on top of it.
Agreed. Let's also not forget a lot of states (like Florida) have toll roads everywhere, which makes up for no income tax. And then there's NY, which has high taxes on everything AND toll roads on top of it.
Yeah, but it's just as easy to get around and usually isn't a major time sink to take non-Toll roads. The I25 corridor is too centralized in its design, perhaps due to geographical limitations, and one is forced to hit 25 without a major detour, whereas Florida has a good layout of older roads that a lot of people don't use as much.
Yeah, but it's just as easy to get around and usually isn't a major time sink to take non-Toll roads. The I25 corridor is too centralized in its design, perhaps due to geographical limitations, and one is forced to hit 25 without a major detour, whereas Florida has a good layout of older roads that a lot of people don't use as much.
I wish it were that easy- have you tried to get to Lakewood from Brighton without using interstates? It could take days... [panic]
I wish it were that easy- have you tried to get to Lakewood from Brighton without using interstates? It could take days... [panic]
I do my best to stay away from the entire Denver metro area at all costs.
Even COS is starting to feel "big city". When we do have to go to the metro area we remember why we no longer live there.
I wish the feds would just end all tax deductions and credits. They have no place for social engineering or encouraging behavior.
Simple tax formula. Enter gross income. Multiply that by X%, that is the tax you pay. Same X for all incomes, individual and business.
So it looks like it's going to head to POTUS's desk. And a lot of companies are giving out bonuses. And would you look at that, Wells Fargo and Fifth Third Bancorp are both raising their minimum wage to $15/hr. Trump didn't even need to sign a law for that!
Anyone wanna take bets on if the dems will eat crow if the world doesn't end due to the tax bill? I'll drop $5 and say they won't.
Politics are so partisan that it's impossible for the left/right to ever admit something is beneficial if not from "their guy". Swap shoes and they would be LOVING IT while sipping frappes in Starbucks, though. Same is true of most conservatives - if Obama ever did something right (I'd have to think awhile) they'd still hate it.
I don't know if it was "right" but the tax breaks for first time home buyers during the Obama administration were sure helpful for when we bought our first house. It was one of those things where people in the know were worried about them causing another housing bubble collapse like in 2008, but saying that you might as well take full advantage of the situation, which I did.
bkincaid
12-21-2017, 14:56
I keep hearing the democrackpots harping about this tax cut raising the federal debt. How about they try cutting some of the entitlement programs as a means to not increase debt? Loss of tax revenue being blamed for raising debt, really????
I keep hearing the democrackpots harping about this tax cut raising the federal debt. How about they try cutting some of the entitlement programs as a means to not increase debt? Loss of tax revenue being blamed for raising debt, really????
They're worried that along with cutting taxes, the republicans are going to start reduction in spending by cutting entitlements, medicare, and other spending cuts. Trump has already reduced a few agencies to the extent he can and is working to make cuts where possible that are unnecessary.
DenverGP
12-22-2017, 11:45
So 99% of these tax changes will go into effect in 2018, which means they do not apply when filing our 2017 taxes.
Because of the increase in the standard deduction, many people who itemized up until now will be better off taking the standard deduction when filing your 2018 taxes in 2019.
That means you might save yourself a bit if you can accelerate some end-of-year things:
- Make any planned 2018 charitable contributions before the end of 2017, while they can still be useful deductions.
- Make your january mortgage payment in december, giving you an extra month worth of mortgage deduction for 2017.
I've even seen the suggestion that if you can afford it, increase your 401k to the max for the final 2017 paycheck, then turn off the 401k contribution for the first 2018 paycheck, to slightly reduce 2017 earnings, and get the money back in 2018 subject to the lower tax rate.
I'm doing the first two things, don't think I'm messing with the 401k contribs.
mortgage interest -- thought this was still in effect up to 750k? Did they remove it completely as a deduction in the final draft??
eta: I also thought it was separate from itemized deductions? Was I incorrect on this?
I thought it was unchanged, so maybe that suggestion is just to get the most out of 2017. Seems like all the mortgages I've ever had were due the first, so you're likely paying Jan in December anyway.
mortgage interest -- thought this was still in effect up to 750k? Did they remove it completely as a deduction in the final draft??
eta: I also thought it was separate from itemized deductions? Was I incorrect on this?
I've been told it's all rolled into the standard deduction- $12,000 for single, $24,000 for joint/married. So you just take the standard deduction if everything falls under that, otherwise itemize, say if you have $14,000 in deductions for single. My dad, being single, will probably still itemize because he'll break the $12K mark, but my wife and I will more than likely not go over $16K, so we'll take the standard deduction.
DenverGP
12-22-2017, 12:02
mortgage interest -- thought this was still in effect up to 750k? Did they remove it completely as a deduction in the final draft??
eta: I also thought it was separate from itemized deductions? Was I incorrect on this?
Yes, mortgage interest deduction is still in effect up to 750k of principle, but you only claim mortgage interest when itemizing. So unless your itemized deductions exceed the 24K standard deduction for married couples, then you can't claim it. For me, I've itemized ever since we bought the house, but for 2018 taxes I'll come out ahead taking the new standard deduction.
Yes, mortgage interest deduction is still in effect up to 750k of principle, but you only claim mortgage interest when itemizing. So unless your itemized deductions exceed the 24K standard deduction for married couples, then you can't claim it. For me, I've itemized ever since we bought the house, but for 2018 taxes I'll come out ahead taking the new standard deduction.
I think a lot of people will. This is a very beneficial aspect to it, IMHO. I'm curious to see what my accountant says about the new tax bill.
That's not the way it was explained when we bought. They intimated that it's a separate thing from itemizing. Had I known it's not, I would not have purchased. I have no reason to itemize that I'm aware of...
With a standard deduction, it's not like there's a refund of the difference between owed and the full amount, right? So I don't see how this is in any way beneficial to me.
DenverGP
12-22-2017, 12:15
That's not the way it was explained when we bought. They intimated that it's a separate thing from itemizing. Had I known it's not, I would not have purchased. I have no reason to itemize that I'm aware of...
With a standard deduction, it's not like there's a refund of the difference between owed and the full amount, right? So I don't see how this is in any way beneficial to me.
Until this new tax change, the mortgage interest on most homes (certainly any in the denver area) was a large enough amount to instantly give you a benefit from using the itemized deductions.
In my case, I had just 3 itemized deductions : mortgage interest, state/property taxes, and charitable contribs. Mortgage interest accounted for most of it. I think my itemized deductions on my 2016 taxes were around 18k, compared to the old standard deduction of $12,600 for married couples.
In 2018, the married standard deduction will be $24,000 for married couples, so I'm getting an extra 6k worth of deduction from the new standard deduction.
And it's one less form to fill out when doing my taxes, and less records to worry about.
It feels like I'm getting screwed because I'm not benefiting from my mortgage interest, but I'm still coming out ahead.
I dunno what will be best. Frankly, I find it all utterly confusing and unnecessarily complicated. Last year I got screwed because I made the mistake of following the instructions on the w4 and it resulted in too little being taken out, so I owed. That was the first time in over 16 years that ever happened and it was angering. Ever since then I've wondered at least once a week if perhaps selling everything and just living in an RV, doing odd jobs under the table wouldn't be the best way to go. I feel no motivation to essentially engage in slave labor. ...something about the tree of liberty and all that worthless fudd crap. If I was single I'd hang it all up and live in the woods. oh well.
Will likely go to an actual tax person this year instead of H&R. I need to learn the loopholes. Glad I learned about parabolas in school.
DenverGP
12-22-2017, 12:22
Even if you were single and had a lot of mortgage interest, you still might come out ahead taking the standard deduction for 2018 taxes because state tax / property tax can no longer be taken as an itemized deduction.
This is why everyone in CA/NY/NJ is whining and thinking they are losing money. Previously they were itemizing to claim their massive state tax amounts. For most, if they just take the standard deduction, they'll come out ahead.
That's not the way it was explained when we bought. They intimated that it's a separate thing from itemizing. Had I known it's not, I would not have purchased. I have no reason to itemize that I'm aware of...
With a standard deduction, it's not like there's a refund of the difference between owed and the full amount, right? So I don't see how this is in any way beneficial to me.
If you weren't itemizing before, then you weren't writing off your mortgage interest anyway. You just went from a $12,000 standard deduction for a married couple, to a $24,000 standard deduction for a married couple. You just benefited $12,000. If you were itemizing to write off your mortgage interest, then it was probably over $12,000, but way less than $24,000. So, just like below, feels bad, but still better. I called my accountant to specifically ask your question.
It feels like I'm getting screwed because I'm not benefiting from my mortgage interest, but I'm still coming out ahead.
kidicarus13
12-22-2017, 12:26
The mortgage interest deduction on loans is dropping from $1 million to $750,000 in 2018. If you take a loan for more than $750,000, you'll still get a deduction -- you'll just be able to claim it on the first $750,000 of the loan, though.
I dunno what will be best. Frankly, I find it all utterly confusing and unnecessarily complicated. Last year I got screwed because I made the mistake of following the instructions on the w4 and it resulted in too little being taken out, so I owed. That was the first time in over 16 years that ever happened and it was angering. Ever since then I've wondered at least once a week if perhaps selling everything and just living in an RV, doing odd jobs under the table wouldn't be the best way to go. I feel no motivation to essentially engage in slave labor. ...something about the tree of liberty and all that worthless fudd crap. If I was single I'd hang it all up and live in the woods. oh well.
Will likely go to an actual tax person this year instead of H&R. I need to learn the loopholes. Glad I learned about parabolas in school.
The idea is that instead of having to file a bunch of different forms to itemize to get a big deduction, now the standard deduction is large enough that most people can take the standard and come out ahead, making the tax filing more simple. Also, my tax guy charges per form, so he'll be able to help people for less money out of their pocket.
If you weren't itemizing before, then you weren't writing off your mortgage interest anyway. You just went from a $12,000 standard deduction for a married couple, to a $24,000 standard deduction for a married couple. You just benefited $12,000. If you were itemizing to write off your mortgage interest, then it was probably over $12,000, but way less than $24,000. So, just like below, feels bad, but still better. I called my accountant to specifically ask your question.
Never had a mortgage until May 2017, so correct... but, there was nothing to write off. However, I would not have purchased if there is in fact no monetary benefit to do so. The way the loan officer explained it made it sound like it was a separate deduction. She explained it because I balked at a higher monthly living cost and she explained we could deduct and thus the mortgage actually = lower than rent. In fact, it seems, all I have done is raise my costs without lowering my owed amount. I might still not be understanding it correctly.
DenverGP
12-22-2017, 13:24
For this coming tax season, without knowing your income, loan amount or interest rate, I'd guess you probably would end up having around 6k or so of mortgage interest. So if you itemize on the 2017 taxes you file in 2018, you'll end up getting the 6k of mortgage interest, plus possibly some extra deduction for closing costs and points, plus maybe 4-5 grand of state taxes, plus any charitable contributions. If that comes out to more than $12,000 for a married couple, then the mortgage interest saved you money.
Never had a mortgage until May 2017, so correct... but, there was nothing to write off. However, I would not have purchased if there is in fact no monetary benefit to do so. The way the loan officer explained it made it sound like it was a separate deduction. She explained it because I balked at a higher monthly living cost and she explained we could deduct and thus the mortgage actually = lower than rent. In fact, it seems, all I have done is raise my costs without lowering my owed amount. I might still not be understanding it correctly.
Of all the benefits of having a mortgage, the tax write off of the interest carries the least weight. If your interest rate is anywhere near the inflation rate, then you're basically getting free money, so don't get wrapped up in playing mortgage vs no mortgage in your head.
kidicarus13
12-22-2017, 13:54
so he'll be able to help people for less money out of their pocket.
I like how you stated that.
The story just keeps getting better and better- now they're absolutely roasting MSNBC saying that they'll benefit quite a bit from the Tax Bill, and Fox News' Jeffrey McCall had some funny stuff to say:
“A bigger quandary might be whether these personalities will take any benefits from the new, lower income tax rates. Those decisions will be made in private, I presume, but there's nothing to stop people from continuing to pay at the higher level, if their moral compasses suggest they should be paying a higher share of their income to the feds,”
The full story is pretty good: http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/12/22/nbc-news-msnbc-hosts-could-receive-cash-windfalls-when-trump-signs-tax-reform-love-to-hate.html
For this coming tax season, without knowing your income, loan amount or interest rate, I'd guess you probably would end up having around 6k or so of mortgage interest. So if you itemize on the 2017 taxes you file in 2018, you'll end up getting the 6k of mortgage interest, plus possibly some extra deduction for closing costs and points, plus maybe 4-5 grand of state taxes, plus any charitable contributions. If that comes out to more than $12,000 for a married couple, then the mortgage interest saved you money.
Got the PDF 1098 for this yesterday.
Total mortgage interest paid in 2017: 6708.85
Should convince the wife to move to the woods outside Nederland and live in a broken down RV. I hear they have a no-cost HOA cleanup crew. LOL
Got the PDF 1098 for this yesterday.
Total mortgage interest paid in 2017: 6708.85
Should convince the wife to move to the woods outside Nederland and live in a broken down RV. I hear they have a no-cost HOA cleanup crew. LOL
Just pay that shit off.
Just pay that shit off.
?
?
Your mortgage. No mortgage = no interest paid. It amazes me how many people believe they have 30 years to pay off a mortgage.
Sure. Let me just get the printing press up and running.
ETA: We just purchased our shiny slave collar in May 2017. Your advice is objectively true, but it's also absolutely ignorant in its application. Unless, of course, you have a line on some manner in which income can be greatly increased in a rapid manner. Even if I had no taxes deducted from my pay, and automagically devoted all of it to paying the mortgage, it would take me 3.5 years to end at a $0 balance.
Your response will probably be an equally ignorant retroactively inapplicable bit of advice like "buy a cheaper house". Sure. In the e-3 infested crappy neighborhoods where police are a real thing, and so are the mice, copious amounts of white, black, and Hispanic trash driving property values into the gutter, and so old that repairs and upgrades would probably offset the cost difference without seeing much benefit on the back end of the buy/sell dynamic.
My goal is not to stay here. My goal is to be in a place, in a neighborhood, with an actual chance of rising in value and then to sell and move to a different state: current contender is northern Alabama due tot he proliferation of DoD contract work (read: good money) coupled with a very, very low cost of living. All I'm doing is hedging against rent increases, while not having to deal with a landlord that decides he'd rather bring in a tenant who will trash his property just to make an extra 50 bucks a month on them.
I get it. I listen to Dave Ramsey too. But let's be realistic. I'm not going to have paid off this place in another year or even 5 years. I'm hoping to shift it to someone else inside 2 years.
Sure. Let me just get the printing press up and running.
U.S. government can do it. So can you.[hahhah-no]
kidicarus13
01-04-2018, 09:07
Your mortgage. No mortgage = no interest paid. It amazes me how many people believe they have 30 years to pay off a mortgage.
People do have 30 years to pay of the standard mortgage. What's the rush? Mortgage APR is between 3% and 4% plus writing off mortgage interest on taxes. Maybe the homeowner is making 10% a year on an investment so their money is working harder for them there. With the attractive interest rates on homes and vehicles these days, it's not always wise to pay off your $300,000 mortgage or $20,000 vehicle. It's not 1950, debt is not always a bad thing. Ask Trump, he leveraged debt to build his empire.
Sure. Let me just get the printing press up and running.
It's obviously not that simple but there are some simple steps you can take to rapidly dealing with a mortgage. It's a bit off topic for this thread but you mentioned it so my response was an attempt at humor addressing the topic.
U.S. government can do it. So can you.[hahhah-no]
Exactly! (I'd put lol but it's quite infuriating how they devalue our currency by recklessly printing as much as they need to fill the bill for the day)
People do have 30 years to pay of the standard mortgage. What's the rush? Mortgage APR is between 3% and 4% plus writing off mortgage interest on taxes. Maybe the homeowner is making 10% a year on an investment so their money is working harder for them there. With the attractive interest rates on homes and vehicles these days, it's not always wise to pay off your $300,000 mortgage or $20,000 vehicle. It's not 1950, debt is not always a bad thing. Ask Trump, he leveraged debt to build his empire.
Spending $1,000 to claim $100 (or $200, or $300, etc.) on taxes doesn't make sense. Regardless of interest rate it's always ways to NOT take out a loan at all. One example of leveraging doesn't not a rule make. I sang that same tune a decade ago and it bit me. Hard. Even if it's 0% that's monthly income that can go towards investments. Taking loans out to buy shit you don't need makes zero financial sense but fuels the economy so they continue indoctrinating us to believe that's how you get ahead in this economy.
Drive through a trailer park and see how many Cadillacs you see. People paying around $1,000/mo for transportation when their tab for shelter is probably $400-$500 in a sketchy neighborhood & work minimum wage collecting welfare. (extreme example but it exists and illustrates my point) No wonder people can never 'get ahead' in this society.
Great-Kazoo
01-04-2018, 09:24
Your mortgage. No mortgage = no interest paid. It amazes me how many people believe they have 30 years to pay off a mortgage.
No mortgage means for some of us, no deductions. Kids grown, medical no where (sometimes) the current ins rate, fixed income. That mortgage deduction helps.
BUT.............. we also have , outside the house, zero debt.
Even if I had no taxes deducted from my pay, and automagically devoted all of it to paying the mortgage, it would take me 3.5 years to end at a $0 balance.
Sounds like you're making pretty good money, congrats! Don't get too upset by Jer's suggestion, you're closer to the mind set of leaving the rat race than most, but he doesn't know that. Turning people on to the idea of having life options that are outside of what society tells you to do can be life changing. It's always good to have a muse. In other words, his suggestion was not meant to frustrate, even though it is certainly out of place in this particular thread.
Drive through a trailer park and see how many Cadillacs you see. People paying around $1,000/mo for transportation when their tab for shelter is probably $400-$500 in a sketchy neighborhood & work minimum wage collecting welfare. (extreme example but it exists and illustrates my point) No wonder people can never 'get ahead' in this society.
Try more like $800-$1,000 per month for lot rent alone.
Zundfolge
01-04-2018, 09:44
Your mortgage. No mortgage = no interest paid. It amazes me how many people believe they have 30 years to pay off a mortgage.
How many people actually ever pay off their 30 year mortgage? Most people move on average every 5 years, that means they pay for 5 years and then reset the clock.
Great-Kazoo
01-04-2018, 12:44
How many people actually ever pay off their 30 year mortgage? Most people move on average every 5 years, that means they pay for 5 years and then reset the clock.
End of year for us, again.
How many people actually ever pay off their 30 year mortgage? Most people move on average every 5 years, that means they pay for 5 years and then reset the clock.
Lots of people take handouts from the government that don't need them... that doesn't make it right.
Just because lots of people move every 5 years and/or take out a new note every 5 years doesn't make it wise financially.
In your scenario that 5 years paid on a 30 year mortgage will end up being nearly 100% interest the way it's amortized. Sure you can write some of that off (depending on income situation) but crunch the numbers on what interest is on 60 months @ roughly $2k per month and you end up with a pretty crazy number that you are paying to "rent" a home. Sure you can get some appreciation but you can also lose a lot of money in value too. Factor in realtor fees and you've got a whole lot of large #'s that aren't in your favor.
Don't even get me started on people who go out and refinance to "save money"on their mortgage ....eesh.
It's already been mentioned though that this is off topic. I referenced a post earlier with a short statement that was largely tongue-in-cheek that has spun off into a conversation that should be contained within a thread topic all it's own.
Just know that you don't HAVE to pay on a mortgage for 30 years and "getting the write-off" certainly isn't worth the true cost of money.
Great-Kazoo
01-04-2018, 17:02
Lots of people take handouts from the government that don't need them... that doesn't make it right.
Just because lots of people move every 5 years and/or take out a new note every 5 years doesn't make it wise financially.
In your scenario that 5 years paid on a 30 year mortgage will end up being nearly 100% interest the way it's amortized. Sure you can write some of that off (depending on income situation) but crunch the numbers on what interest is on 60 months @ roughly $2k per month and you end up with a pretty crazy number that you are paying to "rent" a home. Sure you can get some appreciation but you can also lose a lot of money in value too. Factor in realtor fees and you've got a whole lot of large #'s that aren't in your favor.
Don't even get me started on people who go out and refinance to "save money"on their mortgage ....eesh.
It's already been mentioned though that this is off topic. I referenced a post earlier with a short statement that was largely tongue-in-cheek that has spun off into a conversation that should be contained within a thread topic all it's own.
Just know that you don't HAVE to pay on a mortgage for 30 years and "getting the write-off" certainly isn't worth the true cost of money.
Is your mortgage paid off?
Zundfolge
01-04-2018, 17:41
Just because lots of people move every 5 years and/or take out a new note every 5 years doesn't make it wise financially.
Yeah, that was my point.
I never understood why there should ever be deductions on your taxes for life choices.
Why should most tax payers subsidize the mortgage banks for people to purchases houses? You want property, don't ask renters to subsidize you.
Why should most tax payers subsidize those who give to charity? Give to charity because it makes you feel good, not to gain a discoutvon taxes.
Why should most tax payers subsidize those who breed more children than they could support? If you can't afford kids, don't make childless folks subsidize your kids.
Why should most tax payers subsidize tesla, Toyota, ect so people buy over priced go carts?
We need a flat tax, no deduction, no credits, no more tax lawyers. Government controls us and our choices through taxes. This needs to end.
Bravo to a good 1st step in minimizing government control. Hopefully Trump gets some repubs with balls to finish off the deductions
Who says the rest of the citizens are subsidizing anything? Everything you mentioned is an economic stimulus and is available to everyone and has nothing to do with whether the action can be afforded or not. This is like asking "how come poor people get coupons and everyone else has to pay more?" That's just not The way that coupons, or taxes work.
The reality is that the more simple taxes become, the more everyone will pay.
Government is not for economic stimulus. Private industry, inventors and entrepreneurs stimulate the economy without stealing money (taxes) to force a stimulus.
Taxes depress the economy, no matter the good intention. Keep government as small and invisible as possible. The less it steals, the better.
And why should a government pinhead or a committee of pinheads pick winners and losers vs those who know more? Or those who can't afford to bribe the pinheads.
I think we're having crossed signals here. The examples you gave can easily be viewed as tax breaks for engaging in activities that stimulate the economy. Of course taxes depress the economy, but I'm talking about the breaks specifically.
I can just as easily see the other side of the argument that since the government is the essence of unchecked greed, that any discount must surely be shifted to someone else.
We can disagree on that point.
And why should a government pinhead or a committee of pinheads pick winners and losers vs those who know more? Or those who can't afford to bribe the pinheads.
You've lost me here. I assume you have a lot more to say on the subject, but I can't hang in the conversation without the rest of your context.
I think we're having crossed signals here. The examples you gave can easily be viewed as tax breaks for engaging in activities that stimulate the economy. Of course taxes depress the economy, but I'm talking about the breaks specifically.
I can just as easily see the other side of the argument that since the government is the essence of unchecked greed, that any discount must surely be shifted to someone else.
We can disagree on that point.
Yes. Anyone who uses a tax break, passes there share of the government burdon to others. That's what I mean by subsidising others activity. Everyone should pay an equal share regardless of life and economic decisions. If 100% took advantage, taxes go up even more negating any stimulus, and even depress. I can't find the report now, but for every dollar stolen in taxes, only 85 to 87 cents is spent. The rest is lost to pay bureaucrats and create do nothing jobs. Whereas a dollar spent freely by us is utilized 100%.
You've lost me here. I assume you have a lot more to say on the subject, but I can't hang in the conversation without the rest of your context.
When law makers create tax breaks to favor 1 industry over another. You get tax breaks to install solar power vs a coal stove. The pinhead are favoring the solar industry by making poor economic choices seem cheaper, keeping the solar industry afloat. How many tesla cars would not be sold if consumers paid full price and the government didn't install charging stations? Another example of pinheads picking a winner.
Government needs to scale back to just essential services and national defense. Stop playing robin hood. Kill every subsidy. Go back to the pre great deal economy.
Great-Kazoo
01-05-2018, 09:09
Yes. Anyone who uses a tax break, passes there share of the government burdon to others. That's what I mean by subsidising others activity. Everyone should pay an equal share regardless of life and economic decisions. If 100% took advantage, taxes go up even more negating any stimulus, and even depress. I can't find the report now, but for every dollar stolen in taxes, only 85 to 87 cents is spent. The rest is lost to pay bureaucrats and create do nothing jobs. Whereas a dollar spent freely by us is utilized 100%.
So i shouldn't utilize something i'm qualified for? B.S. I've paid in to the system for X decades, you bet i'm taking advantage of any break or program i'm qualified for.
You use a safeway or soopers card for the fuel points, veterans or LE discount? AAA, NRA , Credit Card cash back program or other membership for discounts?
So i shouldn't utilize something i'm qualified for? B.S. I've paid in to the system for X decades, you bet i'm taking advantage of any break or program i'm qualified for.
You use a safeway or soopers card for the fuel points, veterans or LE discount? AAA, NRA , Credit Card cash back program or other membership for discounts?
You are comparing apples to oranges. You were forced to pay taxes, you are free to shop where you choose.
That is why I said all government breaks should be done away with. It doesn't matter how old you are, or how long you paid taxes. I'm not saying you should loose your SS or medicare today. But future tax payers should never have to pay into these. The fed stole the money from these system and should pay it back. Giving you a $5,000 tax break to buy a tesla is whats wrong. Your choice to buy a tesla should be under the free market. Does your lack of gas purchases offset the increase cost of purchase and electric costs? The tax break can make it favorable or a wash, but at what cost to everyone else? I am now paying for a fraction of your car, do I get any benefit or use of you new car?
I have no problem taking advantage of private sector promotions/incentives/discounts. That is where they belong. The private sector cannot steal your money through taxation and give it to others. Government has no place in incentivising any economic choice.
hollohas
01-12-2018, 14:26
The biggest thing about the tax bill that no one is talking about is how it changed the way businesses write off capital improvements. Previously, improvements had to be depreciated, writing them off over a period of years.
Now, businesses can write them off in year 1.
This is going to be HUGE. Any business that had any plans to add equipment or build a new facility is going to make that shit happen ASAP. This is going to be a huge economic boom. The amount of money that is going to get spent in the next few years is going to be huge. A true stimulus. All paid for by big business, not Uncle Sam.
So far I've seen that Toyota is going to build a huge new facility. And Kimber has announced plans as well.
The lower Corp tax rate is huge too. Companies are coming out in droves saying how they'll use the extra cash to pay employees more. And doing so won't hurt their bottom line one bit. Even Walmart is raising base pay, paying bonuses to all employees, increasing maternity benefits, etc. Everyone is going to benefit from this tax bill in one way or another.
Meanwhile. Companies like mine are so cheap that they still think working overtime and getting paid for a lunch break is the only benefits we need. No vacation time, no health care, dental... no paid holidays off. Its no wonder why they have huge turnover. But this last year was huge for us even without the tax cuts and the owner is being a cheap bastard. I know I should look around since a Class A CDL is very marketable. But how can I show him what he is loosing? Or should I just leave and hear about it later how he can't find any replacement that isn't a total disaster?
I should just gear up and make plans for the coming years winfall of money and not worry it.
Meanwhile. Companies like mine are so cheap that they still think working overtime and getting paid for a lunch break is the only benefits we need. No vacation time, no health care, dental... no paid holidays off. Its no wonder why they have huge turnover. But this last year was huge for us even without the tax cuts and the owner is being a cheap bastard. I know I should look around since a Class A CDL is very marketable. But how can I show him what he is loosing? Or should I just leave and hear about it later how he can't find any replacement that isn't a total disaster?
I should just gear up and make plans for the coming years winfall of money and not worry it.
For me, I just found a better opportunity and moved on. I told the president of the previous company that I had a better opportunity that I couldn't pass up and it had nothing to do with him or his company. I thanked him for the opportunity and experience he gave me and for trusting me with his most valuable assets: his clients. I kept it on good terms and as much as I wanted to either 1) try to reorganize the entire company with ideas and new efforts or 2) just lash into him about all the things he was doing wrong and poor decisions the bottom line was all of that effort in the first option or the 5 minutes of relief in the 2nd option would have ultimately equaled wasted time. Instead, in the way I explained, things went very well and I did all I could to have a smooth hand-off and did all I could to make them successful after my departure. This was greatly appreciated and I even received commission checks for several months after I left and right on time too. This was a true sign of how much he appreciated me and he wouldn't have realized that if I was still there trying to make his company better. In the end it was his company that was successful for about 20 years so who was I to say what was better or worse? Granted, his business is slowly failing and he's working so frantically to put out fires that he may not see the writing on the wall but there's not much I can do about that. The fit just wasn't right. This may be where you find yourself too. What may not be right for you may be right for others so I would leverage this position to something better for YOU and when you find it you'll be in a better position to go out with dignity IMO.
Meanwhile. Companies like mine are so cheap that they still think working overtime and getting paid for a lunch break is the only benefits we need. No vacation time, no health care, dental... no paid holidays off. Its no wonder why they have huge turnover. But this last year was huge for us even without the tax cuts and the owner is being a cheap bastard. I know I should look around since a Class A CDL is very marketable. But how can I show him what he is loosing? Or should I just leave and hear about it later how he can't find any replacement that isn't a total disaster?
I should just gear up and make plans for the coming years winfall of money and not worry it.
Just think how much less you'd be paid if you got all those benefits.
Just think how much less you'd be paid if you got all those benefits.
Not the case at all. He was just being a cheap bastard. I would have made more there w/benefits here and other places. They are just drunk off the low cost way that hiring illegals works. But its not my job. And all I could do is complain when they didn't get a lunch break on a 16 hour day. Mostly, because he couldn't do shit to me if I spoke up. Its my own fault. But I needed to take advantage of the time off to fight for my son in court and not worry about a shit job. I lost a daughter already and didn't want to loose my son too. My job didn't matter and they let me take the time to fight this. While still just paying me like I was a day labor. My job is not my life. I would have been on food stamps and gladly given my son to foster home then let let his bio-mom have control and custody of him. It was that bad.
Meanwhile. Companies like mine are so cheap that they still think working overtime and getting paid for a lunch break is the only benefits we need. No vacation time, no health care, dental... no paid holidays off. Its no wonder why they have huge turnover. But this last year was huge for us even without the tax cuts and the owner is being a cheap bastard. I know I should look around since a Class A CDL is very marketable. But how can I show him what he is loosing? Or should I just leave and hear about it later how he can't find any replacement that isn't a total disaster?
I should just gear up and make plans for the coming years winfall of money and not worry it.
I know of a company in search of good quality A-CDL folks... you can PM me if you want.
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