S&G electronic lock problems?

[Martinjmpr]

Before I spend the $$ to call in a professional I just want to run this by the COAR15 "Brain Trust" to see if maybe I've overlooked something dumb.

Situation: Liberty Fat Boy Jr. Safe, purchased new in 2011 from Murdoch's on South Santa Fe. Safe was in our Englewood house from 2011 until early 2017 when we moved to our current house in the Columbine area of Littleton (just south of Columbine High.)

A couple of years ago I noticed the lock was getting "sluggish", as in, I'd punch in the combo and it would hesitate, then make a sort of groaning noise, and not open. If I keyed in the combo a second time it usually opened. I finally figured out it must be a low battery on the S&G electronic keypad. A new battery seemed to solve the problem.

So just recently it started doing the same thing - sluggish response, no opening. Put a new 9v battery in it, which happened to be from a pack of 9v batteries I'd gotten at Harbor Freight. After 5 or 6 tries, I finally got it to open, but it was still acting very sluggish and not wanting to open.

I thought maybe the el-cheapo batteries had lost some of their charge so just for fun I pulled the battery and checked it with a multi-meter - and it showed 9.6 volts, which seems to me to be fully charged for a 9v.

I swapped out another no-name battery and got it to work - once - but I haven't been able to get it to reopen since.

My next step will be to get a brand-new, "name brand" battery like a Duracell or Energizer or something and see if that works, but if not, what then? Does it mean the S&G lock is kaput? My understanding is that Liberty safes have lifetime warrantys but does that apply to the S&G lock mechanism?

Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom or advice. We don't get into the gun safe that often but obviously we need to be able to access it.

[Great-Kazoo]

Opie, that's all one needs to do is contact him.

After you try a good quality battery AND clean any contacts you have access to.

[Martinjmpr]

Opie, that's all one needs to do is contact him.

After you try a good quality battery AND clean any contacts you have access to.

Yes, that was going to be my next post. I knew there was someone here who was an expert with safes.

[00tec]

If/when you get it open, try it MULTIPLE times before shutting the door. If any question about its function, leave it that way so Opie doesn't have to drill the door.

[MrPrena]

After online search, definitely call liberty.
Had similar issue with securam, and manufacturer replaced it for free.

[NeedMoreAmmo]

Had a similar issue. Remove the battery. Pry off the little S&G logo at the bottom of the keypad. Remove the screw underneath the logo plate. That allows you to remove the keypad. Do that, then reseat all the connectors on the circuit board. Carefully. Put it all back together and, at least in my case, the lock returned to it's normal happy self.

It's not difficult to do this, but if your safe / lock is under warranty perhaps that is the way to go. My S&G lock is on a Browning.

ETA - As mentioned below they can bind if the handle is rotated hard against the stop. Mine also did that but not frequently. Also, your battery might measure 9.6v but that does not show what it actually provides under load. Batteries last a long time in these locks, but your symptoms are also that of a weak battery. There is a battery low warning on these locks but perhaps your battery is marginal in that respect.

[Alpha2]

The only time mine showed those symptoms, I found that the earlier locks needed the handle to be in a "neutral" position to open. The newer one of mine didn't have the problem. Sounds like if your worked fine for a while, that's not likely the issue.

[spqrzilla]

Double check your warranty card details. You may find the electronic locks' warranty is different from safe itself.

[opie011]

Try a new fresh quality battery like energizer or Duracell. If that doesn't work, do what NeedMoreAmmo said and check the plug inside of the keypad and make sure it's fully seated. Also, check the plug on the lock body as well, will need to remove the interior door panel. If the lock is still acting up, it's probably going bad. Best advise is to do what 00tec said and leave the door open as it will be much easier to swap a lock without drilling and will save you lots of $$. PM or email if you need help with your current lock or if you need a new one!

[SAnd]

I have a safe with an S&G lock system on it. Originally it was electronic but I think it acted up a couple times. I got real paranoid it wouldn't open so I replaced it with a mechanical dial lock. I miss the convenience of push buttons but I trust the dial lock more.

You can replace your electronic S&G lock with a S&G mechanical dial if your safe is like mine. It's a Browning safe. S&G made the lock systems so that they 'bolt' right in the same mounting holes. If they sold your safe with both electronic and dial lock I'd bet that it is the same way. The conversion kit was less than $100.

[Martinjmpr]

Looks like a brand new Duracell fixed the problem. Thanks for all the input though, I’ll keep it in mind for the future.


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[opie011]

I have a safe with an S&G lock system on it. Originally it was electronic but I think it acted up a couple times. I got real paranoid it wouldn't open so I replaced it with a mechanical dial lock. I miss the convenience of push buttons but I trust the dial lock more.

You can replace your electronic S&G lock with a S&G mechanical dial if your safe is like mine. It's a Browning safe. S&G made the lock systems so that they 'bolt' right in the same mounting holes. If they sold your safe with both electronic and dial lock I'd bet that it is the same way. The conversion kit was less than $100.

Most of the lock manufactures use the same lock body size (standard footprint) so that mounting them requires no drilling and tapping new holes in the safes lock hard plate.

You want the convenience of the electronic keypad but the reliability of a mechanical lock, have you looked at redundant locks. IMO it's the best way to go!

Oh and I forgot to mention earlier, most safe manufactures don't warranty the locks as they carry a separate warranty that's 12mo....some commercial locks go 24mo. Sure you can probably persuade a safe manufacture to send a new lock out but not after several years of owning it.

[NeedMoreAmmo]

Looks like a brand new Duracell fixed the problem. Thanks for all the input though, I’ll keep it in mind for the future.


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Good news!

[Ramsker]

Most of the lock manufactures use the same lock body size (standard footprint) so that mounting them requires no drilling and tapping new holes in the safes lock hard plate.

You want the convenience of the electronic keypad but the reliability of a mechanical lock, have you looked at redundant locks. IMO it's the best way to go!

Oh and I forgot to mention earlier, most safe manufactures don't warranty the locks as they carry a separate warranty that's 12mo....some commercial locks go 24mo. Sure you can probably persuade a safe manufacture to send a new lock out but not after several years of owning it.

So . . . stupid question, but is the general idea behind the redundant lock that if the keypad fails, you can just use the dial as an option? What's a ballpark cost of swapping out a mechanical for one of those?

I have a Bighorn safe that I got from Costco and it's been great for what I need it for. No issues with the electronic lock ever, but it does sit in the back of my head as to how hosed I'd be if it ever died.

Edit: Not sure what I was thinking when I typed this, but the current lock is KEYPAD . . . not mechanical as I originally wrote.

[00tec]

So . . . stupid question, but is the general idea behind the redundant lock that if the keypad fails, you can just use the dial as an option? What's a ballpark cost of swapping out a mechanical for one of those?

I have a Bighorn safe that I got from Costco and it's been great for what I need it for. No issues with the mechanical lock ever, but it does sit in the back of my head as to how hosed I'd be if it ever died.

Here is one of opie's old posts that has pricing

https://www.ar-15.co/threads/141799-EMP-PROOF-SecuRam-SafeLogic-Xtreme-Safe-Lock?

Not sure if the pricing still stands.

[Great-Kazoo]

Looks like a brand new Duracell fixed the problem. Thanks for all the input though, I’ll keep it in mind for the future.


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d
If you haven't already done so. Pull the new battery and date it, something everyone should do when swapping batteries. Gives you an idea how long it's been in use. Also helps you trouble shoot the item in question, knowing when it was put in service.

[Martinjmpr]

Here is one of opie's old posts that has pricing

https://www.ar-15.co/threads/141799-EMP-PROOF-SecuRam-SafeLogic-Xtreme-Safe-Lock?

Not sure if the pricing still stands.

Good to know. This might be a future upgrade.

[Martinjmpr]

d
If you haven't already done so. Pull the new battery and date it, something everyone should do when swapping batteries. Gives you an idea how long it's been in use. Also helps you trouble shoot the item in question, knowing when it was put in service.

No need to date it, I'll just remember the time I posted about it on AR-15.co and search for this post to find out when I put in the new battery. [Coffee]

[opie011]

I change my safe batteries when I change my smoke alarm batteries. Pick an easy to remember date...I chose the 4th of July as my annual battery replacement day.