View Full Version : What to do with propane canisters
KevDen2005
12-19-2017, 00:43
What do I do with empty one pound canisters (the green ones). I'm sure I shouldn't just throw them away.
KevDen2005
12-19-2017, 08:44
I thought it wasn't recommended to do that.
newracer
12-19-2017, 09:16
Punch a hole in them and recycle.
I thought it wasn't recommended to do that.
It is not by the manufacturers. I can show you pictures of the results if you do it wrong. While it can be done safely, it is beyond common knowledge, so if you want to do it, watch a few of the YouTube videos and make sure the follow the safety recommendations, and know the laws. To me, running Propane through a desiccator is not worth the effort.
The "Not Refillable" label means that they may not be refilled commercially. You, as an owner can refill it, but TRANSPORTING it is illegal. If you are caught on roads with refilled "Not Refillable" cylinders, you can be subject to a $10K fine and 5 years in a Federal Pokey. I have one seen one instance of a person being charged Federally for violating the DOT rules though. The reason for the prohibition is that the 1lb. cylinders don't have the same safety margin and if they rust internally, they can explode. I have worked on three cases where such did occur here in CO so far. Factory filled propane is dry, meaning no water. Bulk tanks that you get for your propane grill, and the Propane that goes into those from bulk plants is NOT dried. A few fillings and you can corrode the interior of the tank.
As to your original question, review this page: https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/cdphe/household-propane-cylinders-and-canisters
I am a certified Propane Handler as well as Line and Appliance installer and regularly investigate Propane accidents for Government Agencies, Propane Suppliers as well as Insurance companies. I have been employed by DOT and Homeland to provide Safety Protocols related to this, and other Propane safety issues, so I am not just a common person on the subject. I hope that helps you make an informed decision.
BladesNBarrels
12-19-2017, 09:48
Leave it at the Propane cage at Home Depot and run away?
[Dunno]
Punch a hole in them and recycle.
+1
68Charger
12-19-2017, 10:12
Punch a hole in them and recycle.
We'll leave it up to you what is best used to punch the hole [Coffee]
a while back my employer mandated that HDD be erased using a specific method or destroyed if non-functional... they were specific that at least 3 holes of 3/8" or larger had to be drilled thru the platters...
they had not setup anything in-house to do this, they were leaving it to each Dept. to handle on their own.... Dept. didn't own a drill, so I got permission to take them home to destroy them- but they wanted them back as proof.
so I put three holes thru them at my mini-ranch (they were of the .30 caliber variety, but the hole wound up lager than 3/8" after expansion), and brought them back to the office to turn in... the IT guy was a bit amused but agreed it met the requirements.
KevDen2005
12-19-2017, 10:29
We'll leave it up to you what is best used to punch the hole [Coffee]
a while back my employer mandated that HDD be erased using a specific method or destroyed if non-functional... they were specific that at least 3 holes of 3/8" or larger had to be drilled thru the platters...
they had not setup anything in-house to do this, they were leaving it to each Dept. to handle on their own.... Dept. didn't own a drill, so I got permission to take them home to destroy them- but they wanted them back as proof.
so I put three holes thru them at my mini-ranch (they were of the .30 caliber variety, but the hole wound up lager than 3/8" after expansion), and brought them back to the office to turn in... the IT guy was a bit amused but agreed it met the requirements.
I see! I might be testing this soon.
I'm a little paranoid though, I know there is no fuel left in these canisters, but I guess I'm a worrier.
I see! I might be testing this soon.
I'm a little paranoid though, I know there is no fuel left in these canisters, but I guess I'm a worrier.
We have shot full ones. No fireball yet, but they will fly at you sometimes due to the rapid decompression.
We have shot full ones. No fireball yet, but they will fly at you sometimes due to the rapid decompression.
Partial or full, they don't "chemically" explode, but they do decompress. That is one of the things Homeland hired me to work on...shooting tanks. Someone "thought" a sniper could shoot a tank in a rack (like in front of a big box store, gas station, etc.) and they would create a bomb. Proven that wrong, on film at Clear Creek Range many years ago. The FD (just up from the range) was on site and hid behind the pumper next to the outhouses while we shot Propane Tanks. There are methods, which I can not write on an open forum, but they are not "simple" and that satisfied Homelands fears. So, in essence, you can thank me that propane exchange racks are still legal, because they were going to ban them.
The "plan" to prevent a massive explosion at a large bulk facility due to a nefarious attack was more interesting, and more complicated. Our plan (which is really just common sense) was rejected by Homeland for two installations, and then after they noodled on it for 6 months, approved and implemented.
Martinjmpr
12-19-2017, 11:18
Some campgrounds have bins where they will take old propane canisters to recycle. Don't know if there's anyplace in the metro area that can do that though. You would think with all the outdoors-people here someone would figure out a way to collect them.
I've always hated the waste of the disposable canisters - you almost never run them completely empty so you always end up throwing away some propane. Eventually I just got an adapter that lets me use a refillable 20lb canister with the camp stove and that's what we use.
theGinsue
12-19-2017, 11:30
I see! I might be testing this soon.
I'm a little paranoid though, I know there is no fuel left in these canisters, but I guess I'm a worrier.
Just be careful of yourself and your surroundings.
As already stated, the rapid decompression caused them to fly, aka shrapnel. Also, a few your back there was a fire near Eleven Mile Resv. that was attributed to someone shooting propane tanks.
You're a smart guy and I know you'll use sound judgement.
KevDen2005
12-19-2017, 12:24
I am not going to do this but I am curious on distance and time....
Say a canister is full, what distance should be given for it to decompress safely?
I am not going to do this but I am curious on distance and time....
Say a canister is full, what distance should be given for it to decompress safely?
We shot a full one With a 375 Win. It landed about 25 or 30 yards closer to us than it was placed.
If you put the canister in the middle of a roadway, and shoot a hole in it while driving away in a vehicle, you'll greatly reduced your risk of being hit by the bottle while at the same time, hardly breaking any laws.
I am not going to do this but I am curious on distance and time....
Say a canister is full, what distance should be given for it to decompress safely?
I have been able to propel 1# canisters just over 100 yards with almost perfect conditions...for informational purposes only.
What do I do with empty one pound canisters (the green ones). I'm sure I shouldn't just throw them away.
If you have a regular use for 1 lb. canisters then refilling them is an economical option. I can refill ~21-22 canisters for the cost of about 8 new ones from the store. Educate yourself and do it carefully. I stock about 60 canisters and do a refill marathon every 2 or 3 years with a refill valve, a scale and a 20 lb. bottle. I mostly use them during hunting season for lighting with my Buddy heaters. They are an important back up prep. Reuse is better than recycle if you can do it properly. If you're likely to shoot yourself in the foot while drawing then you probably should pass on this money saving operation. Handling gunpowder and propane both involve risk.
Alternative idea: https://www.ar-15.co/threads/166274-Stealing-is-a-shitty-thing-to-do
Refill the bottles, poorly, then put them in your empty Amazon boxes on the front porch. When the boxes get picked up, call the police with the plate number so they'll get nailed for transporting refilled propane containers!
EDIT: As a back up measure, also fill the boxes with dog doo and write both the send to and return address to Les Fletcher of Plano, TX.
colorider
12-19-2017, 23:53
Harbor Freight sells an adapter to hook the canisters to a 20# tank. Instructions simply say attach, tip 20# upside down, open valve and fill small 1 pounder. Stop when filling stops.
If they sell it, it has to be safe. Right?.
Just kidding, but they really do sell the gizmo.
Alternative idea: https://www.ar-15.co/threads/166274-Stealing-is-a-shitty-thing-to-do
Refill the bottles, poorly, then put them in your empty Amazon boxes on the front porch. When the boxes get picked up, call the police with the plate number so they'll get nailed for transporting refilled propane containers!
EDIT: As a back up measure, also fill the boxes with dog doo and write both the send to and return address to Les Fletcher of Plano, TX.
And sprinkle in some of that green powder that turns everything purple when exposed to moisture. Yea, that's a great plan.
Here's an idea. You could stake out your own front porch, and when the package thief comes, choot em! (the illegally transported refilled propane canisters that is.
All hypothetically of course.
LOL @ the Les reference. I heard Les Fletcher of Plano, TX rips people off on armslist.
GilpinGuy
12-20-2017, 02:01
If you have a regular use for 1 lb. canisters then refilling them is an economical option. I can refill ~21-22 canisters for the cost of about 8 new ones from the store. Educate yourself and do it carefully. I stock about 60 canisters and do a refill marathon every 2 or 3 years with a refill valve, a scale and a 20 lb. bottle. I mostly use them during hunting season for lighting with my Buddy heaters. They are an important back up prep. Reuse is better than recycle if you can do it properly. If you're likely to shoot yourself in the foot while drawing then you probably should pass on this money saving operation. Handling gunpowder and propane both involve risk.
This is what I do for my Buddy heaters and it works great. The adapter for the 20lb to 1lb cans is about $8 on Amazon.
Jeffrey Lebowski
12-20-2017, 07:05
The "Not Refillable" label means that they may not be refilled commercially. You, as an owner can refill it, but TRANSPORTING it is illegal. If you are caught on roads with refilled "Not Refillable" cylinders, you can be subject to a $10K fine and 5 years in a Federal Pokey. I have one seen one instance of a person being charged Federally for violating the DOT rules though.
Mark, how would one (even a professional “one”) be able to tell if it were filled vs. refilled?
I have zero interest in doing this, just curious.
I do agree with many of you though - the waste on this is bothersome. I just throw them out as well. :(
I am a certified Propane Handler as well as Line and Appliance installer and regularly investigate Propane accidents for Government Agencies, Propane Suppliers as well as Insurance companies. I have been employed by DOT and Homeland to provide Safety Protocols related to this, and other Propane safety issues, so I am not just a common person on the subject. I hope that helps you make an informed decision.
Am I the only one who read this, and heard Hank Hill saying it?
72900
Am I the only one who read this, and heard Hank Hill saying it?
72900
No. A title change is in consideration.
68Charger
12-20-2017, 21:29
Mark, how would one (even a professional “one”) be able to tell if it were filled vs. refilled?
I have zero interest in doing this, just curious.
I do agree with many of you though - the waste on this is bothersome. I just throw them out as well. :(
yeah, it's like a 600% markup or more... I've got the rig for refilling them... I just don't use enough of 'em to bother. if you weigh them, or take extra care to ensure you don't overfill them it's safe... for a while at least. Even if they rusted thru from the inside, they wouldn't just blow up- but they could cause a gas buildup that could ignite depending on how you store them.
If they pop while in your trunk on a hot day because you overfilled them- that's how they'd know you refilled them.... otherwise, no clue.
KevDen2005
12-20-2017, 23:12
Am I the only one who read this, and heard Hank Hill saying it?
72900
Oh I heard it too. A title change should definitely happen.
theGinsue
12-20-2017, 23:27
No. A title change is in consideration.
Oh I heard it too. A title change should definitely happen.
What are you talkin' about?
KevDen2005
12-20-2017, 23:28
What are you talkin' about?
Have you not heard of Hank Hill? He sells propane and propane accessories.
Jeffrey Lebowski
12-21-2017, 07:01
Have you not heard of Hank Hill? He sells propane and propane accessories.
When I saw your title, I thought of this before I read you were thinking the little camping bottles.
72905
Mark, how would one (even a professional “one”) be able to tell if it were filled vs. refilled?
I have zero interest in doing this, just curious.
I do agree with many of you though - the waste on this is bothersome. I just throw them out as well. :(
All fuels have markers (isotopes) that have slight variations from one fuel source to another. If I have a verified source, I can tell if a sample came from that source or not. It is not cheap to do, but it is pretty reliable. Also, remember that canisters filled by the manufacturer use dried propane. Most (probably all) of the people re-filling are using bulk propane that is not dried, so interior tank corrosion occurs (which is also usually the cause of the tank rupture) and I can characterise that. Also, I microscopically examine the valve and I can see slight marks that are indicative of filling. If you refill, and have an incident, you definitely don't want me as the Forensic Engineer working on your case because I will find out the truth. In most cases, the dots are pretty easy to connect on all three.
The last guy not only had consusive issues, but burns as well. After my analysis, not only did a "suit" against the manufacturer get vacated, his homeowners policy denied the claim. It was messy for the guy and he could no longer work either. It was his attorney and the insurance company attorney who hired me jointly.
Was it a regular homeowners policy, or a farm/ranch policy?
Even if they rusted thru from the inside, they wouldn't just blow up- but they could cause a gas buildup that could ignite depending on how you store them.
Actually, most of the time, they do rupture and the released energy is quite significant. It is a physical explosion as opposed to a chemical, nuclear or BLEVE.
Was it a regular homeowners policy, or a farm/ranch policy?
Actually Irving, I do not know what type. The attorneys just referred to it generically and I never had it in my file.
68Charger
12-22-2017, 11:39
Actually, most of the time, they do rupture and the released energy is quite significant. It is a physical explosion as opposed to a chemical, nuclear or BLEVE.
Interesting- but it's possible you rarely hear about the less violent failures... they just quietly happen and get swept under the rug.
Or is this based on scientific testing, rather than anecdotal cases?
68Charger
12-22-2017, 16:51
Isn't Les Fletcher of Plano, Texas that guy that ripped someone off on Armslist taking like $500? Or am I thinking of another Les Fletcher of Plano, TX?
Hmm, no, after thinking about it I'm pretty sure it's someone named Les Fletcher of Plano TX who ripped off that guy on Armslist.
I thought Les Fletcher of Plano, TX was getting married, possibly to avoid accusations that he had several homosexual relationships, some of which may have been underage.
But he also could have ripped someone off on Armslist.
Isn't Les Fletcher of Plano, Texas that guy that ripped someone off on Armslist taking like $500? Or am I thinking of another Les Fletcher of Plano, TX?
Hmm, no, after thinking about it I'm pretty sure it's someone named Les Fletcher of Plano TX who ripped off that guy on Armslist.
What about High Powered Armory LLC, Youngstown Ohio, 44507, (330) 503-2298 ?
I'm pretty sure they were ripping someone off too...
Interesting- but it's possible you rarely hear about the less violent failures... they just quietly happen and get swept under the rug.
Or is this based on scientific testing, rather than anecdotal cases?
The cases I work on are, for the most part, ones in which there is substantial injury or property loss. But I also get information from the manufacturers, monitor others testing as well as perform testing, as well as the NPGA information.
68Charger
12-22-2017, 22:01
The cases I work on are, for the most part, ones in which there is substantial injury or property loss. But I also get information from the manufacturers, monitor others testing as well as perform testing, as well as the NPGA information.
Good info, thanks for posting it... I had heard that bulk propane sometimes contains water, but didn't know it was enough to cause corrosion inside a container. I'll avoid any long term storage if I do fill any... I don't own one of those devices, but connectors and hoses that can accomplish the same thing. I've got like 2 or 3 empty 1# cannisters, just don't use enough to make it worthwile. Bought a few 2-packs during a black friday sale a while back... here the humidity could rust them from the outside in, too...
Jeffrey Lebowski
12-23-2017, 14:38
All fuels have markers (isotopes) that have slight variations from one fuel source to another. If I have a verified source, I can tell if a sample came from that source or not. It is not cheap to do, but it is pretty reliable. Also, remember that canisters filled by the manufacturer use dried propane. Most (probably all) of the people re-filling are using bulk propane that is not dried, so interior tank corrosion occurs (which is also usually the cause of the tank rupture) and I can characterise that. Also, I microscopically examine the valve and I can see slight marks that are indicative of filling. If you refill, and have an incident, you definitely don't want me as the Forensic Engineer working on your case because I will find out the truth. In most cases, the dots are pretty easy to connect on all three.
The last guy not only had consusive issues, but burns as well. After my analysis, not only did a "suit" against the manufacturer get vacated, his homeowners policy denied the claim. It was messy for the guy and he could no longer work either. It was his attorney and the insurance company attorney who hired me jointly.
My goodness, I had no idea all this was possible.
Good info. [Beer] Completely useless to me, but interesting as all get-out!
Mark, if 20-lb bottle propane is not dried, how do they keep those containers from rusting?
Mark, if 20-lb bottle propane is not dried, how do they keep those containers from rusting? 20 pounders are filled from a bulk tank, which is dried propane. BUT, there is a test and re-test requirement on tanks. That process (stamped tare weights, inspection, etc.) catches those tanks with internal corrosion. It also catches those tanks used for ammonia, or other oxidizers used in illegal drug manufacturing process.
So, if the 20s are filled with dried propane, wouldn't you be refilling 1s with dried propane from the 20s? I can't imagine how the dry propane would get "wet" when transferred into 1-lb cans except for that little bit of air in the transfer tube the first time you use it.
PS: I'm not arguing with you, I just can't figure out the source of moisture infiltration.
The walls on the 1# are extremely thin as compared to the 20#. There is no factor of safety for propane in the 1#s.
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