View Full Version : HAM Radio- Okay ELMER where is the easy button on these radios?
.40isthenew.45
12-26-2017, 10:57
I want to think I am not the only one who wants HAM radio to be easy. I am not "one of those guys" who just goes out and buys the radio and to heck with getting licensed. About two and a half years ago, I downloaded the test questions for the Technician test. I studied them well enough to pass the test and got my license.
Then I bought a cheap handheld, dowloaded CHIRP and "programmed" the local repeaters. And....... I have talked to exactly one person, one time since then.
I know there are guys who really get into the theory, and complexities, but that's just not me. I want to be able to talk to other people, practice enough that I don't loose the skill, and be able to talk/help if the need arises, i.e. Fire/blizzard/search and rescue I might even consider joining the local ARES or RACES groups
In hopes that it was just the handheld making it not as much fun/not as useful as I though it would be, I asked Mrs. Clause for a mobile radio this year. She didn't read the whole list and I got the radio with no antenna or programming cable. As I started looking for an antenna, the frustration level crept back up.
DOES IT REALLY HAVE TO BE THIS HARD?
Shouldn't there be a checklist somewhere that says if you have radio A, use antenna B. And oh by the way, here is the contact number for you local club, that speaks english not radio, and will help you get set up without judging you or the equipment you bought?
We help guys with hi-points learn to shoot, before we counsel them about what to buy next time don't we?
Okay for those of you still reading thanks for your patience.
What I need help with specifically is selecting an antenna, preferably magnetic mount to go on my van and work with the Btech UV-25x4 I got for Christmas. I would also welcome suggestions on repeaters/setup if you have any.
Thanks in advance.
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Pair the UV-25X4 with the Nagoya UT-72 Magnetic Mount Antenna for easy installation with the UHF antenna connectors.
Have you been in contact with the local club(s) in COS?
I know ChadAmberg (user here) is into HAM and is in COS. Might send him a PM. I'm sure he would be happy to either assist if able or point you in the right direction.
Martinjmpr
12-26-2017, 12:40
You're preaching to the choir here. IMO the main reason ham radio is not more popular is because the radios themselves are so complex and non-intuitive to use.
Lots of folks on the 4x4 boards where I hang out b!tch and moan about the quality of CB comms (which really suck) but they still use CB. Why? Because CB is easy to use, and it's universal. There's no choosing between duplex/simplex, using the VFO to choose frequency, CTCSS codes, etc etc. All that stuff is great for ham "hobbyists" but for those of us who just want to talk, it's a barrier to entry.
To put it another way, I have enough hobbies already, I don't need another hobby, what I need is a radio to talk to other vehicles when I'm off road. And while CB is a terrible system, it is easy to use and universal so until someone comes up with something better, we either (a) live with the limitations of CB or (b) roll up our sleeves and try to figure out our overly-complex 2m or 440cm VHF/UHF Ham radios.
I wish there was an easy answer but there's not. As to the question "does it really have to be this hard?" the answer is "no, it doesn't but at this time there's just not enough demand for an easy-to-use ham radio to justify any manufacturer making one."
Over on the http://www.expeditionportal message boards there has been some talk of moving the GMRS. GMRS does require a license (I think it's $70 for 10 years) but there is no test. Like CB - an UNLIKE the ham bands - GMRS is "channelized" which makes it very easy to use. GMRS also allows mobile radios i.e. mounted in a vehicle and connected to the vehicle's power system and using an external antenna, as opposed to Family Radio Service or FRS, which can only be used on a hand-held radio with a fixed antenna attached. I think GMRS mobile radios can be up to 25 watts ERP while FRS is limited to 1 or 2 watts. GMRS radios are in the UHF band and offer pretty clear FM transmission and reception and there are even GMRS repeaters that can extend the line-of-sight for longer communications.
The obvious down side to GMRS is that there just aren't that many people using them right now and any communications system is only good if there's someone on the other end to receive.
So I know that doesn't really help, except to let you know you're not the only one in this position.
Jeffrey Lebowski
12-26-2017, 16:49
Shouldn't there be a checklist somewhere that says if you have radio A, use antenna B. And oh by the way, here is the contact number for you local club, that speaks english not radio, and will help you get set up without judging you or the equipment you bought?
We help guys with hi-points learn to shoot, before we council them about what to buy next time don't we?
Interesting, and completely valid point.
Most hobbies have “entry level” stuff. Your “maybe I won’t get too into” purchases that will allow you to test, shoot (exposures or projectiles), get out on the water or the road, and then move up and on. Ham does seem to be “grow into stuff” which few grow into.
I know only the most basic functions of my Icom HT, and I have no idea when my license is up for another renewal.
.40isthenew.45
12-26-2017, 20:28
First of all, thanks to those of you who have responded so far.
I am actually in Pueblo, but have checked the web pages of the clubs down here (maybe I need to give them more of a shot). I just updated the location in my profile, this was a good reminder to do so.
I was in Denver for the afternoon and stopped by a ham radio shop while I was there. I am not as impressed as I wanted to be, and just about any google search for ham radio in denver will tell you which shop on Iliff I was at.
The first question they asked after I told them I was looking for a mag mount mobile antenna was "Which radio do you have?" Which is of course a very reasonable question to get the right frequency(s) and connector. When I told them, you could tell they were disappointed, and had to look it up. Perhaps it was just that I didn't buy from them. They pointed me to an antenna and went to see if they had a programming cable for the radio as well. They didn't (they don't carry my brand so I'm not really surprised). I talked to them a little more about antennas and what made one better than the other, and whether or not I would need to do any tuning after purchase. The short answer (and that is about all I got) was "longer is better" and "they all come tuned from the factory". Which pretty well sums it up, but I still felt like I had to pull that out of them. I then asked if they had a longer antenna than the one they recommended initially. It turns out they did, and it was only about $6 more than the first one. So I feel like I at least got a little information and a better antenna than I would have if Mrs. Clause had read the whole list and gotten the Amazon frequently bought together antenna I put on the list.
I knew I would pay a little more for the antenna from an actual store and didn't mind supporting the semi-local business and paying some for the expertise and advice also. It turns out, my $38 dollar antenna is also available on Amazon for only $21, but I feel like I at least learned a little.
For those of you who may still be in search of an antenna, I got the Tram Model 11861 which I just verified will indeed screw into the back of my radio. It is 37 inches long instead of the 19.5" that has also been recommended. Twice as long must be twice as good right?
When I get the programming cable, I am going to hope that CHIRP lets me cut and paste the settings I used for the handheld to the new mobile. I am not 100% sure I have the handheld set up exactly right either but at least it seems to work for the most part.
I am still open to suggestions and if any of you have a radio and want to try talking over one of the 2m repeaters up and down the front range, drop me a pm and we can figure out when to try.
One other thing from the store, which reinforces why I don't post my call sign here. As I was checking out he asked "What's your call?" After I asked him to repeat the question and he explained what he was looking for, I told him I would have to look it up. He did it for me, which gave him my name and address on file with the FCC. Anyone can look up the information in the FCC database at http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/searchAmateur.jsp
ChadAmberg
12-26-2017, 20:32
Which mobile radio did you end up getting?
Probably a 2m/70cm dual band rig? Something with a UHF antenna jack, I'd get http://www.diamondantenna.net/mr77.html.
If you want a lip mount over magnetic, I ran http://www.cometantenna.com/amateur-radio/no-holes-mobile-mounts/mounts-with-coax/ the CP-5NMO mount, and then I added a dual band antenna that was the height I wanted. Worked great for me for years.
You will have much better results with the mobile than the handheld. Let me know if you have any questions about getting it mounted.
.40isthenew.45
12-26-2017, 20:47
Thanks, I got a Btech UV-25x4 and already had the BF-F8HP handheld. I just ordered the programming cable, and will probably get everything hooked up this weekend. I am going to try and keep it as mobile as possible, so cigarette lighter plug and the mag mount should let me move it around pretty easily. I may use the hard mount and some thumbscrews to secure it in the van and just let it ride in the passenger seat in the other vehicles on the rare occasion it winds up in one of them.
The first one you recommended was also the first recommendation from the unnamed shop.
gnihcraes
12-26-2017, 21:29
Welcome to ham radio!
I want to say that the BTech Baofeng radios are not the easiest to understand or program (my experience) And CHIRP software isn't the greatest either. So, don't let it get you down and out of ham radio. I'm not saying that you should go buy anything different, just that other radios are usually easier than BTech Baofeng. (strange logic and key functions on those radios!)
The unmentioned shop you stopped at, will have different types of folks working there. Some more helpful than others. Much like some gun shops I can think of.
As for CB Radio and off roading, there are some mobile/handheld options that utilize the FRS/GMRS which are channelized. https://www.ruggedradios.com
Post up questions and I'm sure a couple of us will do our best to help.
Martinjmpr
12-27-2017, 10:20
As for CB Radio and off roading, there are some mobile/handheld options that utilize the FRS/GMRS which are channelized. https://www.ruggedradios.com
Rugged Radios? I've heard some not-too-good things about them, personally I'd avoid them.
The $35 BaoFeng's are tempting but I decided I'd rather get a used version of a more expensive radio than a new version of a cheap radio (to translate this into gun terms, wouldn't you rather have a used Glock or Springfield than a brand new Lorcin or Hi-Point? :D )
I had made up my mind to finally get "serious" about ham last year, that was about a week before the wife decided we needed to move to a new house, and of course that sucked up all my available time and energy. Now that we're settled into the new house I'll again try to get my radios working. I have a Yaesu FT-50 dual band HT that I bought used in 2011 when I got my tech license (I had previously been a Tech+ but that license expired in 2004. Tech + no longer exists as a license class since they got rid of the novice license.) I also have a Kenwood mobile 2m that was in my old 4runner for a while - if I get ambitious I'll put it in my Suburban.
As for ham radio enthusiasts, in my (admittedly limited) experience, they are usually enthusiastic about helping you up until the point that they realize you aren't "into" radios and have zero interest in getting into "the hobby" and you just need to use the damn thing. The hams that have been most helpful to me are the ones for whom radio is an adjunct to another hobby, not a hobby in and of itself (for example, more and more 4 wheel drive and off road enthusiasts are getting into ham as it offers much better communications options than CB.)
.40isthenew.45
12-27-2017, 10:55
The $35 BaoFeng's are tempting but I decided I'd rather get a used version of a more expensive radio than a new version of a cheap radio (to translate this into gun terms, wouldn't you rather have a used Glock or Springfield than a brand new Lorcin or Hi-Point? :D )
I would feel better about a Glock vs STI analogy but I get what you are saying. The handheld I viewed as a throw-away if something didn't pan out. I haven't used it enough to know what I want to do with it. The mobile got fairly good reviews, and while I would like to have a "nicer" radio, I don't know what makes a "nicer" radio or what features I want to add.
I had made up my mind to finally get "serious" about ham last year, that was about a week before the wife decided we needed to move to a new house, and of course that sucked up all my available time and energy. Now that we're settled into the new house I'll again try to get my radios working. I have a Yaesu FT-50 dual band HT that I bought used in 2011 when I got my tech license (I had previously been a Tech+ but that license expired in 2004. Tech + no longer exists as a license class since they got rid of the novice license.) I also have a Kenwood mobile 2m that was in my old 4runner for a while - if I get ambitious I'll put it in my Suburban.
That is close to my plan as well. When you get things set up drop me a note and we will see if we can get them to connect.
As for ham radio enthusiasts, in my (admittedly limited) experience, they are usually enthusiastic about helping you up until the point that they realize you aren't "into" radios and have zero interest in getting into "the hobby" and you just need to use the damn thing. The hams that have been most helpful to me are the ones for whom radio is an adjunct to another hobby, not a hobby in and of itself (for example, more and more 4 wheel drive and off road enthusiasts are getting into ham as it offers much better communications options than CB.)
Which is why I asked the question here, rather than on a ham forum.....
spqrzilla
12-27-2017, 14:09
Not sure why you don't want to mention the name of the ham radio shop on Iliff ... but I'll go with it. I have a low opinion of them. They are a huge hindrance to ham radio in Colorado in my opinion.
But the reality is that between 4G cellular phone service and the Internet as a whole, the main audience for ham radio hobby is diverted into other interests.
In most areas of the Front Range, the factory antenna on a 2 meter handheld will hit the good repeaters available. When I was in the east end of the Denver metro area, an ancient Radio Shack handheld could hit the repeaters on the west side very clearly. Southern Colorado's repeater coverage is a bit sparser but I don't think you need to worry about antenna quality until you are wandering around the Western Slope.
A lot of the repeaters use the same setup. So the key is getting your handheld set up on the handful of those repeater setups.
.40isthenew.45
12-27-2017, 16:51
Not sure why you don't want to mention the name of the ham radio shop on Iliff ... but I'll go with it..
Like Mrs. Rabbit used to tell Thumper "if you don't have nuthin' nice to say, don't say nuthin' at all.... " I softened my comments a bit as I was writing the post but left the first part alone.
I do feel like there isn't a real inclusive attitude in the HAM world. I don't want to take anything away from what they do, but would like to be able to use some of the capabilities myself. I don't want to have to figure out all the settings, I think CHIRP does a pretty good job for most of it, why the clubs and repeater operators don't publish plain english versions of setup instructions I will never understand. I didn't see an overabundance of traffic when I was messing around a couple of years ago, and don't think making it easier would change much of that. I support the test, to make sure folks have a basic understanding of the radio, and more so the "rules of the road" with regards to what is and is not acceptable use.
I have the handheld on the charger at the moment and the programming cable for the new radio should get here Friday. So, hopefully I can see how things are working over the weekend.
Thanks again to all of you who have shared your thoughts and experiences. I don't know that I want to start a crusade to "make ham easier" but if I get things working reasonably ok, I would be more than happy to share whatever setup info I have.
SSChameleon
12-27-2017, 20:50
The Ham community in Pueblo is small but active. I’m like you, I memorized the questions on QRZ and hot the license, purchased a few baofeng radios and then downloaded chirp. I figured out enough to get some repeaters in Pueblo, springs and Denver programmed I . I’ll PM the name and number of a Pueblo guy who offered to clone his baofeng to mine with all the local repeaters.
There is a radio shop on Abriendo just before I25. I haven’t been in so I have no review to offer, but it looks old school and may be a good resource.
For the uninitiated, HRO == Every local gun store.
People, on this board, are going to hate the analogy but it is utterly true.
.40isthenew.45
12-28-2017, 07:48
The Ham community in Pueblo is small but active. I’m like you, I memorized the questions on QRZ and hot the license, purchased a few baofeng radios and then downloaded chirp. I figured out enough to get some repeaters in Pueblo, springs and Denver programmed I . I’ll PM the name and number of a Pueblo guy who offered to clone his baofeng to mine with all the local repeaters.
There is a radio shop on Abriendo just before I25. I haven’t been in so I have no review to offer, but it looks old school and may be a good resource.
I will check out the local shop, its not too far from home. Maybe I will hold off telling them what kind of radio I have 8^)
.40isthenew.45
12-28-2017, 09:13
I just downloaded the latest version of CHIRP and was reviewing my .img file. I don't have enough confidence in it to share with others, but if someone has a known good setup I would very much like to take a look at it.
Perhaps we should start another thread to share them if others would find it useful?
Martinjmpr
12-28-2017, 09:14
For the uninitiated, HRO == Every local gun store.
People, on this board, are going to hate the analogy but it is utterly true.
Well, I would even say HRO = every gun store, every "hobby" store, every small bicycle or motorcycle shop, computer store, etc.
I think I've posted this here before but here's my take on it: Some people are really "INTO" their hobbies. They are so "into" their hobbies that they look down their nose at anybody who does the same hobby but isn't as "committed" as they are (Think of "Comic Book Guy" on The Simpsons for an example from popular culture.)
72965
And often times, the people who are super "into" their hobby decide that the best thing they could do is open a business where they serve that hobby. Gun guys open gun shops, bicycle guys open bicycle shops, and ham radio guys open HRO franchises or independent electronics shops (again, Comic Book Guy.)
The danger of the "hobbyist owned business" is that while these guys are usually very knowledgeable about their chosen hobby, they often have pretty poor social skills and only so-so business skills and many of them don't seem to understand that if you treat customers like shit, they'll likely go and shop somewhere else. And they often will openly show contempt for any customer or potential customer who comes in and asks what they regard as a "stupid question." Sometimes if you walk into their shops you'll even hear them talking with a co-worker or someone else about "this dumbass customer who came in yesterday...." or some such. They will often be openly condescending or sarcastic to customers and generally act like they're doing you a favor by even talking to you.
It's no wonder that these businesses often fail. It's no wonder most people who aren't "enthusiasts" would rather shop in a big box store (where the mantra of "serve the customer" is beaten into the heads of the employees.) Many times the only reason the businesses DO stay around is because they are the only game in town, so their sucky customer service skills aren't enough to keep people from shopping there (HRO being the great example of this - AFAIK it's the only ham radio store in the Denver metro area.)
And BTW my choice of the word "Guys" above was deliberate - I've never seen the equivalent of this in any female-oriented business (like a craft or sewing shop or similar.) My wife is into a lot of "girly" crafts and every time we go into one of their shops the women who run them are never anything other than open, friendly and more than willing to help out someone who is just starting off or only needs one or two items.
ChadAmberg
12-28-2017, 09:30
Yeah I agree with most of the comments. Radio is fun stuff, but you have to figure out what works for you. For me, when I had an APRS radio in the car, that was fun, and listening to some local and regional chatter. I'd also be able to receive ISS transmissions and such when it was overhead.
Mostly I do HF digital stuff, seeing how far around the planet my signals get and do some chatting that way. That's something that attracts mostly the younger (under 60) crowd, which are more open to pleasant chatter and less get off my frequency. I still need to get my damn antenna ran since I've moved...
As for the comment about what's better than Baofeng, once you've used a nice Icom, Yaesu, or Kenwood, it will quickly make sense. I have an HT made by Icom, and it's relatively nice and easy, has great audio in and out of it, and feels like it's quality when you pick it up. I'd recommend for anyone looking to buy something new to hit the QRZ for sale forums, and pick up something used. That's what I've done over the years and gotten good experiences.
Martinjmpr
12-28-2017, 09:41
As for the comment about what's better than Baofeng, once you've used a nice Icom, Yaesu, or Kenwood, it will quickly make sense. I have an HT made by Icom, and it's relatively nice and easy, has great audio in and out of it, and feels like it's quality when you pick it up. I'd recommend for anyone looking to buy something new to hit the QRZ for sale forums, and pick up something used. That's what I've done over the years and gotten good experiences.
I got my Kenwood 2m mobile and my Yaesu FT50 dual band HT from Craigslist, believe it or not. And I think I paid a total of maybe $100 for both radios (the Kenwood was only $25 because some of the buttons on the microphone don't work. I ordered a new mike for $18.) So they are out there on the used market.
Martinjmpr
12-28-2017, 09:55
Incidentally, there are people in the ham radio community who understand the public relations problem that ham radio has. There is a blog that is dedicated to pointing out the ridiculous in the ham radio world, http://www.hamsexy.com (it's not a terribly active site although there is a recent post from December of this year.)
Here is a rant from that site back in 2010 (https://www.hamsexy.com/cms/?p=1064) (Language warning for the sensitive.):
This whole stupid ordeal just goes to show why amateur radio will, thankfully, be dead in 15 years, when the old, cranky, overweight non-procreating men who current occupy space in this hobby will mercifully die. Then, the amateur bands can be turned over to something useful, like public safety, media, broadcasting, etc… anything but the old fart geeky whinefest that goes on these days.
Remember when Ham Radio was a vital service? When I was a kid I used to see the local amateur radio club at conventions and events, doing long distance relay messages for your friends or family, and I thought that was so cool… Extremely long distance, real time communication was something that didn’t exist for most people at that time, and it was a novelty.
Then, something terrible happened to ham radio: progress. Nowadays, with cell phones, long distance calls without the assistance of an operator and the internet have made communicating with people around the world commonplace and uninteresting. The rest of the world rocketed forward while Ham Radio stood still. There have been a few brave people who attempted to incorporate new technology into ham radio, but the ‘old guard’ resisted like someone was taking away their triple Baconator… WHAT? IRLP? THAT’S NOT HAM RADIO. WHAT? DIGITAL? THAT’S ENCRYPTION AND NOT ALLOWED. And don’t even get me started on those fucking idiots who claim that Ham Radio is a ‘vital public service’, and that it MMMMUUUSSSTTTT be maintained ‘when all else fails’…. Well, so far the only disasters that Ham Radio has been useful at have been those where self-important hams have crowbarred their way in. Hams are only good at calling in rain to Skywarn net control, fetching coffee for the REAL first responders (the ones that belong to licensed, government sanctioned organizations that actually have physical fitness requirements) or patrolling little kiddies on halloween. That’s it. And take the fucking lightbar off of your car, you fat loser … you are embarrassing us all.
Face it – Ham Radio will be all but gone in a lot shorter time than all of us realize. If you want to find out the culprit, it isn’t Echolink or BPL or Riley or even Barack Obama – it’s YOU, you smelly, fat, old piece of shit. YOU.
buffalobo
12-28-2017, 10:48
If you guys want to start a thread to teach/inform/share/answer questions for the Ham newbs, start one and I will sticky it.
If you guys want to start a thread to teach/inform/share/answer questions for the Ham newbs, start one and I will sticky it.
+1
.40isthenew.45
12-28-2017, 13:01
If you guys want to start a thread to teach/inform/share/answer questions for the Ham newbs, start one and I will sticky it.
+1
GREAT IDEA!
Amateur Radio is a hobby. I joined ARRL after getting my license. I went to a few meetings of the The Denver Radio Club but didn't join.
Like most hobbies, it takes time, interest, and money. I never seem to have all three at the same time.
As for talking on the radio, I'm not really a big fan of talking to anyone without any purpose. Sometimes I will just have the radio on in the background, but I can't recall hearing anything worth listening to so I never had much interest in talking.
ChadAmberg
12-29-2017, 14:32
So i have a bunch of the ham magazines from the last couple years. If anyone wants to have some to check out some of the equipment reviews, articles, etc., you're more than welcome to 'em!
BaoFeng UV-5R+ Dual-Band 136-174/400-480 MHz FM Ham Two-Way Radio
Is this ^^^^^ worth getting for $25? If so, should I get 2, or more?
And what would it be capable of (a brief synopsis in laymen's terms)? I know only what I have read in this thread, and didn't even understand a large portion of that...
For $25 they are a great learning tool.
If it were easy, it would be a CB. [Coffee]
fairrpe86
03-28-2018, 18:27
Should be able to hit most of the local repeaters around the general metro area with that HT, as well as listen to the stuff in NOCO. Entry level radio with a cheap price tag that like stated before is a good learning tool. Learn how to program it via the keypad and go from there. Kind of a pain to program via PC, but good for what it is non the less. I keep one in the center console of my truck as a backup radio if I ever were to need it.
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