View Full Version : Minimum wage increase
kidicarus13
12-29-2017, 16:29
Will the minimum wage increase in Colorado starting Jan 1 affect anyone either positively or negatively? Depending if prices go up at restaurants, I may cut back on going out to eat- which will be a good thing all the way around [PizzaHut]
Little Dutch
12-29-2017, 17:44
I've seen signs posted in several business explaining that there will be a rate hike due to the minimum wage increase. Camp Bow-Wow was the first place I noticed a sign, but I've seen others. The money has to come from somewhere, and the consumer is the one supplying the money. This cause and effect wasn't terribly difficult to predict.
BladesNBarrels
12-29-2017, 17:49
At the time, the response was that the price increases are justified to provide a living wage.
The counter argument was that the workers would face the same price increases and the net result would be the same effective wage.
Let the experiment begin!
[blaster]
Little Dutch
12-29-2017, 17:55
I didn't get a raise though, so this was a net loss for me. I am now poorer as a result, and thus more equal to the minimum wage earner. Which appears to be their end-goal; that we are all poor together, equally.
As a result of this increase, I now charge 3 cents for my opinions.
buffalobo
12-29-2017, 17:59
The consumer will lose.
The worker will benefit while working but will start losing when he ends his work day and transitions to consumer.
Many businesses will take advantage and raise price beyond just covering greater labor expense.
If you're unarmed, you are a victim
BladesNBarrels
12-29-2017, 17:59
"As a result of this increase, I now charge 3 cents for my opinions."
Dang, quick give me your paypal account, and I will prepay!
[Coffee]
Dang, quick give me your paypal account, and I will prepay!
[Coffee]
Not everyone is brave enough to dabble in Irving Opinions futures, I'd say you're in a great position to get in on this early. Especially since we all know prices will only continue to increase as the minimum wage goes up.
BladesNBarrels
12-29-2017, 18:07
What if I give Irving a flat buyout offer for his opinions, and then after the merger, terminate Irving and continue selling Irving opinions through Foxtrot?
Sounds like we better use bitcoin for this venture!
I am accepting bitcoin and litecoin for my...(please pay to read rest of the paragraph).
theGinsue
12-29-2017, 19:05
The site is charging a 26% "fee" for Irving Opinions. Note that TABOR does not apply as this is not a tax.
ALERT: The cost of Irving Opinions may increase by >50% as Irving passes the "fee" rate on to consumers.
JohnTRourke
12-29-2017, 19:11
ok, being as I don't read nor watch the fake news outlets (i.e. all of them)I missed this
what is at now and what is going up to?
Fortunately my annual raise should be enough to offset the minimum wage increase. In other words, the minimum wage donkeys get an extra dollar and I get an extra dollar. So effectively everything cancels out and neither of us is any better off.
At least we can look forward to increased efficiency in the fast food industry. Now that they’re starting to make more money like they say they deserve I’m sure their effort and dedication to their job should go way up.
Inflation and fewer hourly jobs. Reduced purchasing power for hourly workers. Sounds perfect. They'll soon be replaced by automation.
Stupid liberals.
Sent from my electronic leash using Tapatalk
Not everyone is brave enough to dabble in Irving Opinions futures, I'd say you're in a great position to get in on this early. Especially since we all know prices will only continue to increase as the minimum wage goes up.
Outsourcing...
http://www.drawinghowtodraw.com/stepbystepdrawinglessons/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/400x400-apu-from-the-simpsons.png
My giveashits are still free, if you can get me to turn loose of one.....
Anyone notice the new ordering kiosks at fast food joints? McDonalds in highlands ranch also has a drink robot for drive through.
kidicarus13
12-29-2017, 22:05
ok, being as I don't read nor watch the fake news outlets (i.e. all of them)I missed this
what is at now and what is going up to?In November 2016, Colorado voters approved Amendment 70, a plan to raise the wage for any non-tipped worker in the state from $8.31 per hour to $12 an hour in three steps by 2020.
In 2017, the minimum wage went up to $9.30 per hour.
On Monday, Jan. 1, Colorado's minimum wage will increase to $10.20 per hour ($7.18 per hour for tipped employees).
Fortunately my annual raise should be enough to offset the minimum wage increase. In other words, the minimum wage donkeys get an extra dollar and I get an extra dollar. So effectively everything cancels out and neither of us is any better off.
At least we can look forward to increased efficiency in the fast food industry. Now that they’re starting to make more money like they say they deserve I’m sure their effort and dedication to their job should go way up.
[Sarcasm2]
FIFY
Economics 101:
If you raise the price of something, you get less use of it.
Progressives were sleeping when that was taught
Economics 101:
If you raise the price of something, you get less use of it.
Progressives were sleeping when that was taught
Yes, but that also applies to the dollars in discussion. Hence, the increase to account for not only inflation of the currency itself, but the factors for which those dollars are intended: cost of living. This is skewed because of the non-commodity based funny money we have. Fiat currency with no backing standard is utter bullshit. It's the most glittery of unicorn farts.
When buying power is reduced, one needs more to do the same things. Look at Venezuela or the Weimar Republic and how utterly useless their cash is/was.
All in all, we are a poorer nation and the minimum wage increase as a necessity to account for other factors being inflated is merely a symptom.
It would be absurd to say someone from 1968 to say, "hell, I went through college with no debt, bought a house, and my wife stayed home, all on 30k a year!" to someone today.
Example: 1913 $1 = ~$0.4; should someone from 1913 be alive and balk at the minimum wage in 1968 (~$1.60), because "I made a nickel an hour in my day!". Well good for you. Your nickel is now worth ~$1.60 in buying power in 1968.
But other factors rose too, and not in an equal fashion, so the buying power is reduced further.
With the only standard for currency value to be whatever TPTB come up with, we'll continue to see these symptoms increase until it blows up in a massive, horrible, global economic disaster.
I better start saving up for those snowy days. That milk and bread is going to get expensive.
BladesNBarrels
12-30-2017, 09:30
I better start saving up for those snowy days. That milk and bread is going to get expensive.
I think the point was that saving without return on savings lowers your purchasing power.
I guess that leaves bitcoins as the inflation hedge.
Even Irving is accepting bitcoins and litecoins now.
Dang, I switched everything to Riddle at 75 cents per unit - (riddle me this and riddle me that)
[panic]
For a business to employ people, those employees need to return greater value to the business than they are paid (otherwise the business goes bankrupt). The problem with raising minimum wage is that a certain segment of the population is not capable of returning value greater than that minimum, thus, they become unemployable. The higher the minimum wage, the more unemployable people will suck the public teet that is funded by our tax dollars. It is part of the Democrat plot to ensure their voter base expands. Thus, we are ALL affected negatively.
Economics 101:
Speaking of Econ 101, why is it that so many Americans are clamoring for more corporate taxes. "Corporations should pay their 'fair share'!"
I still remember from grade school; "Corporations don't pay taxes. Taxes are passed along to the consumer in the form of higher prices."
If you're a consumer of whatever the corporation produces, those same idiots demanding business should pay more in taxes are begging to pay more tax by proxy. The stupid is strong with these people.
Businesses are not charities or non-profits. A mandated higher expense to business is going to be passed along to consumers and/or the business will have to reduce their costs of production. Labor is usually the largest expense on the balance sheet and is the biggest target for reductions.
Liberals in government seem to think that the world we live in is a zero sum game. It's absolutely not.
"living wage" = less opportunity
Sent from my electronic leash using Tapatalk
theGinsue
12-30-2017, 10:52
All very good points folks and I agree wholeheartedly. Please keep 'em coming as I need talking points when this issue rears its ugly head from the liberals at work.
I have good friends who own restaurants and they WILL be increasing their prices across the board and decreasing staff hours based on seniority.
I have good friends who own restaurants and they WILL be increasing their prices across the board and decreasing staff hours based on seniority.
Should keep prices the same. Add a "Colorado minimum wage" surcharge to every ticket.
UrbanWolf
12-30-2017, 14:29
The McDiddy at Loveland has ordering Kiosks now, if minimum wage workers becomes more expensive then employers with the ability will replace them with machines that do their work without asking for more pay.
kidicarus13
12-30-2017, 15:30
.72993
There will be no good OR bad. it will be good and bad. Only true way to find social benefit/cost analysis is gather data afterward and compare it with economic benchmark.
Yes, but that also applies to the dollars in discussion. Hence, the increase to account for not only inflation of the currency itself, but the factors for which those dollars are intended: cost of living. This is skewed because of the non-commodity based funny money we have. Fiat currency with no backing standard is utter bullshit. It's the most glittery of unicorn farts.
When buying power is reduced, one needs more to do the same things. Look at Venezuela or the Weimar Republic and how utterly useless their cash is/was.
All in all, we are a poorer nation and the minimum wage increase as a necessity to account for other factors being inflated is merely a symptom.
It would be absurd to say someone from 1968 to say, "hell, I went through college with no debt, bought a house, and my wife stayed home, all on 30k a year!" to someone today.
Example: 1913 $1 = ~$0.4; should someone from 1913 be alive and balk at the minimum wage in 1968 (~$1.60), because "I made a nickel an hour in my day!". Well good for you. Your nickel is now worth ~$1.60 in buying power in 1968.
But other factors rose too, and not in an equal fashion, so the buying power is reduced further.
With the only standard for currency value to be whatever TPTB come up with, we'll continue to see these symptoms increase until it blows up in a massive, horrible, global economic disaster.
You're absolutely right about inflation. The difference between the two is inflation is a natural market reaction to a increase monetary supply where as the minimum wage increase is an artificial price increase not dictated or demanded by the market.
If labor prices increase naturally to $10 and hour its because of a low supply/high demand for labor. Inflation is just a "constant" of which to measure the monetary market.
wctriumph
12-30-2017, 16:12
I knew that some way, somehow, my tax cut would be offset or negated, the increased cost of living will be higher than any benefit from a tax cut. Thanks .gov for screwing me again.
Zundfolge
12-30-2017, 16:16
Economics 101:
If you raise the price of something, you get less use of it.
Progressives were sleeping when that was taught
No, they know what they're doing. They're tricking people into thinking they're "looking out for the little guy" by raising minimum wage while at the same time knowing they're increasing unemployment of the unskilled and thus creating more dependency on the state for sustenance ... its a win-win for them. They get more voters and thus more power at the expense of the very people they claim to want to help.
No, they know what they're doing. They're tricking people into thinking they're "looking out for the little guy" by raising minimum wage while at the same time knowing they're increasing unemployment of the unskilled and thus creating more dependency on the state for sustenance ... its a win-win for them. They get more voters and thus more power at the expense of the very people they claim to want to help.
Yeah... The "higher ups" probably know that and I have no doubt that they see and understand that cycle.
The everyday, "useful idiots" don't though.. These are your run of the mill democrats that you see everyday. They're the ones that say, " I feel" and " I think" and let their emotions dictate their public policy.
theGinsue
12-30-2017, 21:39
There will be no good OR bad. it will be good and bad. Only true way to find social benefit/cost analysis is gather data afterward and compare it with economic benchmark.
Given that this "experiment" has been going on in Seattle and other cities for a few years now, I think enough data exists to extrapolate the cause/effects here in CO. Seattle has seen higher rates of unemployment, many businesses going under and people fleeing the city to move to places nearby yet outside of the immediate imfluence of the higher wage costs (ie. Away from the higher costs passed on to consumers). At least that's the latest data I read around mid-2017.
ETA: I failed to mention that WA also has a minimum wage increase schedule which is not as "profressive" as Seattles. Apparently, Seattle-ites felt the states efforts were too little, too slow for them.
"Seattle's Minimum Wage Ordinance went into effect on April 1, 2015. The Minimum Wage Ordinance sets wages for the City of Seattle and will gradually increase to $15.00/hour and higher with adjustments for inflation. Schedule 1 employers shall pay each employee an hourly minimum wage of at least: $11.00 by April 1, 2015. $13.00 by January 1, 2016. $15.00 by January 1, 2017."
(For WA state). "Minimum wage. Initiative 1433 was designed to increase the minimum wage from $9.47 in 2016 to $11.00 in 2017, $11.50 in 2018, $12.00 in 2019, and $13.50 in 2020. Beginning in 2021, the minimum wage will be adjusted with inflation."
From this WaPo article published June 26, 2017: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/26/new-study-casts-doubt-on-whether-a-15-minimum-wage-really-helps-workers/?utm_term=.5083abb5ea25
When Seattle officials voted three years ago to incrementally boost the city's minimum wage up to $15 an hour, they'd hoped to improve the lives of low-income workers. Yet according to a major new study that could force economists to reassess past research on the issue, the hike has had the opposite effect.
The city is gradually increasing the hourly minimum to $15 over several years. Already, though, some employers have not been able to afford the increased minimums. They've cut their payrolls, putting off new hiring, reducing hours or letting their workers go, the study found.
The costs to low-wage workers in Seattle outweighed the benefits by a ratio of three to one, according to the study, conducted by a group of economists at the University of Washington who were commissioned by the city. The study, published as a working paper Monday by the National Bureau of Economic Research, has not yet been peer reviewed.
While the study came after CO chose to emulate WA, the evidence of the failure of this sort of effort has been seen since day one. But then again, when did a Liberal ever let facts get in the way of their agenda. The end result is clear; this isn't to help low wage earners, it's to eventually give the .gov more control over more and more people.
Given that this "experiment" has been going on in Seattle and other cities for a few years now, I think enough data exists to extrapolate the cause/effects here in CO. Seattle has seen higher rates of unemployment, many businesses going under and people fleeing the city to move to places nearby yet outside of the immediate imfluence of the higher wage costs (ie. Away from the higher costs passed on to consumers). At least that's the latest data I read around mid-2017.
ETA: I failed to mention that WA also has a minimum wage increase schedule which is not as "profressive" as Seattles. Apparently, Seattle-ites felt the states efforts were too little, too slow for them.
From this WaPo article published June 26, 2017: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/26/new-study-casts-doubt-on-whether-a-15-minimum-wage-really-helps-workers/?utm_term=.5083abb5ea25
While the study came after CO chose to emulate WA, the evidence of the failure of this sort of effort has been seen since day one. But then again, when did a Liberal ever let facts get in the way of their agenda. The end result is clear; this isn't to help low wage earners, it's to eventually give the .gov more control over more and more people.
Co minimum wage is increased to 9.30 to 10.20.
% increase relative to % increase relative to price indicies, cpi, and inflation is at par or below.
Now, if minimum wage is going to $15+/hr like king county seattle, it would be approximately ~350% increase of all economic growth.
Eta: as mentioned if CO goes huge change like WA did, it will definitely have huge side effects.
So...we're just cutting off our noses a slice at a time. The end result will be the same. The driver to increased wages should be related to the economics of doing business, not some arbitrary number pulled out of someone's lower abdomen to make themselves feel better without regard to reason or logic.
I should get back into automation; putting a hamburger together with a robot can't be that hard.
Automation is coming one way or another to the service industry. It will be disruptive. This sort of thing increases the demand for it.
GilpinGuy
12-31-2017, 08:45
Stupid question. Do minimum wage earners actually pay income, payroll, SS, etc. taxes? After they get their "tax return" my guess is no. But my cynical mind thinks, "Higher minimum wage means more taxes collected, and lefties like to collect taxes to waste on stupid shit, so....higher minimum wage it is."
SideShow Bob
12-31-2017, 09:08
I should get back into automation; putting a hamburger together with a robot can't be that hard.
Automation is coming one way or another to the service industry. It will be disruptive. This sort of thing increases the demand for it.
You may be too late, they already have a fresh pizza vending machines. Hamburgers are probably in the works.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pyrav_9Pbsc&sns=em
Answer:Thus, only about 50% of the country pays any taxes at all although a higher percentage had taxes originally deducted.
...and everyone should have some skin in the game.
You may be too late, they already have a fresh pizza vending machines. Hamburgers are probably in the works.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pyrav_9Pbsc&sns=em
They even took my [old] job! Damn it.
GilpinGuy
12-31-2017, 11:52
Answer:
SS, Medicare yes, not refundable and deducted at flat percentages. Everything else: generally they don't pay (deducted sometimes, but refunded and then some). With things like Earned Income Credit +refunds the government gives them substantially more than they ever paid in. Thus, only about 50% of the country pays any taxes at all although a higher percentage had taxes originally deducted.
Yeah, I knew the 50% pay no taxes bit, I just thought federal, and they actually get paid to be "low income". SS and Medicare...hmmmm.
How much interest, if any, is earned on the taxes withheld throughout the year, then finally returned?
Yeah, I knew the 50% pay no taxes bit, I just thought federal, and they actually get paid to be "low income". SS and Medicare...hmmmm.
How much interest, if any, is earned on the taxes withheld throughout the year, then finally returned?
Zero, that is one of the reasons I try to pay a little. My money is better off in my hands than the government's.
I think he means interest earned by the government. We all know they aren't paying us interest! Lololol
I think he means interest earned by the government. We all know they aren't paying us interest! Lololol
It's the government. You know they don't invest it. That would be to our benefit.
GilpinGuy
12-31-2017, 12:59
I think he means interest earned by the government. We all know they aren't paying us interest! Lololol
This is my point. Of course the government wouldn't give you was is rightfully yours. [hahhah-no]
This is my point. Of course the government wouldn't give you was is rightfully yours. [hahhah-no]
Oops sorry.
Don't worry, they spent it wisely on benefits to parasites, then they borrowed from TBTF to pay the refunds.
Stupid question. Do minimum wage earners actually pay income, payroll, SS, etc. taxes? After they get their "tax return" my guess is no. But my cynical mind thinks, "Higher minimum wage means more taxes collected, and lefties like to collect taxes to waste on stupid shit, so....higher minimum wage it is."
Actually, yes. They pay income taxes, and it's not always recoverd at tax time.
68Charger
01-02-2018, 10:47
the real minimum wage is $0.. but at least you don't have to show up for work
Socialists/communists want everybody to get equal pay... that would be their utopia, where everybody everybody gets paid the same, or even where there is no money.. everybody just does what they do for everybody else.
To that end, you either raise the minimum wage, or lower the maximum that people can make (thru multiple means, heavy taxation would be one)
of course this just reduces everybody to the lowest common denominator.... and creates inflation because giving people more money for the same work de-values the currency.
It also de-values education... since the gap between what you make as a high-school dropout and a college graduate has been closed partially.
Raising the minimum wage is stupid. Minimum wage in and of itself is stupid and violates employers rights to pay commensurate to worth of labor. It's silly to raise it to some arbitrary number when the last estimate I could find shows only 2.9% of the working population (that's reported income) earns minimum wage. Minimum wage was never meant to support a family, it was meant for entry level/unskilled labor. In reality, if you're earning minimum wage you shouldn't be for long, and if you are after a long period of time you either A) are not a good worker, or B) need to find a new job.
Circuits
01-02-2018, 14:30
Actually, yes. They pay income taxes, and it's not always recoverd at tax time.
Most minimum wage workers are eligible for no withholding (other than FICA/SSI), so do not necessarily "pay" any income tax. Those who do have withholding may not file for their refunds, though, which effectively results in them being taxed, I guess.
Don't forget illegals and scammers collecting benefits but still working "under the table" - no taxes or withholding on the illegal income, and little or none taken out of the fraudulently-claimed benefits.
Really, anyone working for minimum wage is a chump, because working regularly above the table at even minimum wage makes one no longer eligible for many FSA "benefits".
Raising the minimum wage is stupid. Minimum wage in and of itself is stupid and violates employers rights to pay commensurate to worth of labor. It's silly to raise it to some arbitrary number when the last estimate I could find shows only 2.9% of the working population (that's reported income) earns minimum wage. Minimum wage was never meant to support a family, it was meant for entry level/unskilled labor. In reality, if you're earning minimum wage you shouldn't be for long, and if you are after a long period of time you either A) are not a good worker, or B) need to find a new job.
It also violates the workers right to accept lower pay. There are people that have little or no marketable skills that are unable to get a job due to them literally not being worth $10+ and hour. Now they're stuck with out a job to learn marketable skills because they are literally forbidden to work for less than mandated pay.
Minimum wage jobs are for entry level work forces that NEED the opportunity to learn new skills. But try explaining that to a progressive....
BladesNBarrels
01-02-2018, 17:14
It also violates the workers right to accept lower pay. There are people that have little or no marketable skills that are unable to get a job due to them literally not being worth $10+ and hour. Now they're stuck with out a job to learn marketable skills because they are literally forbidden to work for less than mandated pay.
Minimum wage jobs are for entry level work forces that NEED the opportunity to learn new skills. But try explaining that to a progressive....
Ah yes, that is why the "intern" was invented.
Slave labor with no pay and can be asked to do anything.
Ah yes, that is why the "intern" was invented.
Slave labor with no pay and can be asked to do anything.
As long as consent is involved....
Ah yes, that is why the "intern" was invented.
Slave labor with no pay and can be asked to do anything.
Interns at the evil corporation where I work are paid and they get put up in long-stay hotels when they're from another part of the country.
Let's not mince words, minimum wage really means "If I could pay you less, I would."
Current labor rate @big box stores and fast food places are $1 to 2 bucks more than new minimum wage. CO minimum wage can be adjusted down when there is low price indicies or low inflation numbers. I think CO had to lower minimum wage about ~3 years back?
Let's not mince words, minimum wage really means "If I could pay you less, I would."
Because most of the people who get raises from increases in minimum wage aren't worth minimum wage.
I think a reasonably intelligent person with a good work ethic ought to be able to outpace minimum wage fairly quickly.
Circuits
01-05-2018, 00:47
Several places I go to have raised prices as of 1/1/18, whether for wage hike, or other reasons, I know not.
My buying patterns will change, as a result, though.
Just heard this morning that Red Robin was getting rid of busboys to deal with higher wage costs. Will save them $8 million per year in labor costs. Now those hourly employees that got more with a wage increase also got more work to do for that increase. Surprise!
hurley842002
01-09-2018, 08:30
Just heard this morning that Red Robin was getting rid of busboys to deal with higher wage costs. Will save them $8 million per year in labor costs. Now those hourly employees that got more with a wage increase also got more work to do for that increase. Surprise!Seems like a sound business solution after having the increase shoved down their throats. Want more money? Okay, you will now work harder for it.
Just heard this morning that Red Robin was getting rid of busboys to deal with higher wage costs. Will save them $8 million per year in labor costs. Now those hourly employees that got more with a wage increase also got more work to do for that increase. Surprise!
You mean that the laws of economics applies to wages????
Say it ain't so!!
Seems like some have more problem with minimum wage earners than minimum wage law.
I just have problems with stupid government and idiots who wants $20/hr now and still have same buying power as year before.
Other than that, I have no problems with minimum wage earners (to even people who make 399k/yr).
Seems like some have more problem with minimum wage earners than minimum wage law.
How do you figure?
Some wait staff will piss and moan about it. Others will be hustling because they understand that turning more tables equals a better customer experience and more opportunities for tips.
The end result of a forced labor cost change by governments to businesses doesn't yield a magical change where money materializes from good intentions with no negative outcomes. This is known. No more experiments need to be performed using the same failed hypothesis.
Red Robin will offset minimum wage hikes by canning busboys (https://nypost.com/2018/01/08/red-robin-will-offset-minimum-wage-hikes-by-canning-busboys/)
How do you figure?
Some wait staff will piss and moan about it. Others will be hustling because they understand that turning more tables equals a better customer experience and more opportunities for tips.
The end result of a forced labor cost change by governments to businesses doesn't yield a magical change where money materializes from good intentions with no negative outcomes. This is known. No more experiments need to be performed using the same failed hypothesis.
Red Robin will offset minimum wage hikes by canning busboys (https://nypost.com/2018/01/08/red-robin-will-offset-minimum-wage-hikes-by-canning-busboys/)
Relative to money I spend, I usually get better service from minimum wage earners than some professionals.
Yes sub/income effect. Some minimum wage earners will cry and moan or some will get fraudstrated and enroll in MSTP program to become medical scientist.
As I said in first response,we need metrics to support social marginal benefit or social marginal cost from this.
Not backyard undergrad sissy diagram econ.
68Charger
01-09-2018, 19:38
Relative to money I spend, I usually get better service from minimum wage earners than some professionals.
Yes sub/income effect. Some minimum wage earners will cry and moan or some will get fraudstrated and enroll in MSTP program to become medical scientist.
As I said in first response,we need metrics to support social marginal benefit or social marginal cost from this.
Not backyard undergrad sissy diagram econ.
I see you're really trying to live up to the GMKITA title... lighten up, Francis.
The ones that are really pissed that they're not earning enough despite not working at it are the ones who will declare socialism to be the solution, IMHO... but paying them more despite them not working hard isn't a solution...
Not sure how to get those that are lost to thinking socialism/communism is the solution to capitalism rewarding others for hard work.
Zundfolge
01-09-2018, 20:14
I think a reasonably intelligent person with a good work ethic ought to be able to outpace minimum wage fairly quickly.
I'm 47 years old and have worked continuously since I was 16 (with a couple breaks in my late teens that add up to a total of maybe 3 months).
Over all that time, I've worked for minimum wage a total of 2 months. The first 30day probationary period at my very first job (at a Wendy's) and the first 30 day probationary period at my second job (busing tables at a Mr Steak). Other than that I never saw minimum wage ever again. I don't think I'm all that special either.
Just by coincidence the paper had a story about restaurants and tipping and the trouble keeping staff at some of the high priced downtown trendy places. It was mostly funny that they were talking about how hard it was to get good help that will work for almost no money. They are going to add a surcharge to cover it. It will work itself out.
colorider
01-09-2018, 20:54
^^^^^^^^^
Yep. Current shitty wait staff will now be getting their 20% tip no matter what. What could possibly go wrong. Let's see how much less they give a shit about giving good service now that they know they are guaranteed a 20% tip.
Great-Kazoo
01-09-2018, 20:56
Just by coincidence the paper had a story about restaurants and tipping and the trouble keeping staff at some of the high priced downtown trendy places. It was mostly funny that they were talking about how hard it was to get good help that will work for almost no money. They are going to add a surcharge to cover it. It will work itself out.
The (ok most of) the owners are the same ones who were with Her or Bernie in 16. Karma my good wait servant, karma
Zundfolge
01-09-2018, 21:47
My dad went through basic training back in the early 60s with a guy that waited tables at Tavern on the Green (he got drafted). This guy said he actually had to pay 10% of his tips to the restaurant for the privilege of working there and still had an apartment overlooking Central Park and a shiny new Porsche.
The free market works just fine. Distortions like the minimum wage do nothing but create perverse incentives and make the market less efficient.
People need to read less Marx and Engels and more Hayek and von Mesis.
GilpinGuy
01-09-2018, 22:31
I know blackjack and poker dealers making $80k+. Good thing they got that increase. [facepalm]
I'm 47 years old and have worked continuously since I was 16 (with a couple breaks in my late teens that add up to a total of maybe 3 months).
Over all that time, I've worked for minimum wage a total of 2 months. The first 30day probationary period at my very first job (at a Wendy's) and the first 30 day probationary period at my second job (busing tables at a Mr Steak). Other than that I never saw minimum wage ever again. I don't think I'm all that special either.
OMG, I worked at a Mr Steak for a spell when I was finishing my senior year in HS. Started as a DW for min wage, then worked into a prep and fry cook position with a small raise. Only time I ever made min wage in my life. Probably a couple weeks.
FWIW, I've collected exactly 2-weeks unemployment ever in my life when I got out of the Army in 1988.
It's also different in booming economies, where people have a larger selection of jobs to pick from, vs. a depressed economy in a small town where you can work at Wal-Mart for shitty hours, in a shitty job for just-above-shit level of pay, or somehow manage with the inadequate sum that social security doles out. You may have noticed that Medicare costs have gone up, benefits have gone down, and yet somehow this year, seniors did not get a cost-of-living raise. Not all minimum wage jobs go to pretentious dope-smoking waiters and waitresses.
Great-Kazoo
01-10-2018, 00:20
[QUOTE=TheGrey;2111573 You may have noticed that Medicare costs have gone up, benefits have gone down, and yet somehow this year, seniors did not get a cost-of-living raise.[/QUOTE]
How true. My dr visits are now Zero co-pay. Which is great, until one realizes co-pays for xrays, specialist have doubled if not tripled. Based on my last co-pay i'd lean towards triple for other than dr visits. SS has gone up, BUT... it's offset by medicare part B&C. Much more payouts than the pittance 3% ish they "gave" me
How true. My dr visits are now Zero co-pay. Which is great, until one realizes co-pays for xrays, specialist have doubled if not tripled. Based on my last co-pay i'd lean towards triple for other than dr visits. SS has gone up, BUT... it's offset by medicare part B&C. Much more payouts than the pittance 3% ish they "gave" me
That's awful. My Mom was trying to explain that they raised this, but lowered that, all to the tune of zero-sum to help with the higher cost of living. I'm genuinely worried about the older generation; so may people's health doesn't allow them to work much, and the social security isn't covering what it needs to. Couple that with the mass exodus of doctors and specialists that scattered after Mandatory Obamacare tipped the scales, and the world turns to crap.
Zundfolge
01-10-2018, 14:06
One of the guys I work with stopped by a Taco Bueno last night and got a burrito ... he was served by the manager and they talked for a bit. Apparently Taco Bueno has decided to close all its stores in Colorado, and while he wouldn't admit it "on the record" he said the minimum wage increase (and the increases to $12 to come) are a big part of the reason.
The other big reason is that it's increasingly hard to find people worth $7/hr let alone $10 because as he put it "Colorado kids are a bunch of pot-addled idiots".
Circuits
01-10-2018, 14:59
Apparently Taco Bueno has decided to close all its stores in Colorado, and while he wouldn't admit it "on the record" he said the minimum wage increase (and the increases to $12 to come) are a big part of the reason.
Ah, unintended consequences.
Though, losing Taco Bueno, frankly, is no great loss.
One of the guys I work with stopped by a Taco Bueno last night and got a burrito ... he was served by the manager and they talked for a bit. Apparently Taco Bueno has decided to close all its stores in Colorado, and while he wouldn't admit it "on the record" he said the minimum wage increase (and the increases to $12 to come) are a big part of the reason.
The other big reason is that it's increasingly hard to find people worth $7/hr let alone $10 because as he put it "Colorado kids are a bunch of pot-addled idiots".
Color me surprised... The manager is right, though, kids these days are pothead idiots.
It's a shame what the legalization of pot has done to the state. Too stupid or lazy to understand a situation? No problem, just blame it on pot, no actual thought necessary. The restaurant and food service industry has largely been occupied by low earning drug users for as long as I've been alive and working. I'd bet money that's been the case for the last 60-70 years, in every single state in the union.
ETA: Why am I concerned about the economic evaluation coming from the f'ing manager of a Taco Bueno? haha
Fewer kids use pot now than when it was illegal, studies have shown.
It's just not cool now that it's readily available, and that it's readily available means it's harder to find someone who will sell under the table, not meeting those 18 years of age to buy laws.
How are people making minimum wage buying marijuana?
And who buys marijuana by the gram?
https://www.coloradopotguide.com/colorado-marijuana-blog/article/marijuana-prices-in-denver-and-colorado-summer-2017-update/
I am a supporter of the Freedom of Association. While not mentioned specifically in the First Amendment, the right of the people to freely assemble sort of implies that free people may associate with who they choose to associate with and conversely refuse to associate with those they refuse to associate with. If I want to work for $1 an hour, that right should be recognized and not infringed by any government. $1 per hour would be a better wage than dependent on government handouts IMO. Each person must make their way in the world and use whatever legal resources are available to meet their obligations.
Be safe.
How are people making minimum wage buying marijuana?
And who buys marijuana by the gram?
https://www.coloradopotguide.com/colorado-marijuana-blog/article/marijuana-prices-in-denver-and-colorado-summer-2017-update/
.
Most of the time its weighed out in 1/8 oz which is 3.5 grams.
Eight balls and teeners. Hmmm, never thought about them in grams but fractions of an ounce. It was tough enough keeping up with the daily price. At least now they have web sites to provide such useful information.
kidicarus13
01-11-2018, 08:27
Looks like Jack in the Box has run the numbers as well... http://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/2018/01/10/jack-in-box-ceo-swapping-cashiers-for-robots-makes-sense-due-to-minimum-wage-increase.html
GilpinGuy
01-11-2018, 08:54
One of the guys I work with stopped by a Taco Bueno last night and got a burrito ... he was served by the manager and they talked for a bit. Apparently Taco Bueno has decided to close all its stores in Colorado, and while he wouldn't admit it "on the record" he said the minimum wage increase (and the increases to $12 to come) are a big part of the reason.
The other big reason is that it's increasingly hard to find people worth $7/hr let alone $10 because as he put it "Colorado kids are a bunch of pot-addled idiots".
It's a shame what the legalization of pot has done to the state. Too stupid or lazy to understand a situation? No problem, just blame it on pot, no actual thought necessary. The restaurant and food service industry has largely been occupied by low earning drug users for as long as I've been alive and working. I'd bet money that's been the case for the last 60-70 years, in every single state in the union.
ETA: Why am I concerned about the economic evaluation coming from the f'ing manager of a Taco Bueno? haha
Sort of sounds like you agree with him. Maybe he thinks it's a new thing and you don't, but the problem is the same.
It really doesn't matter why these kids aren't worth more than an employer thinks they are - the employer just doesn't and shouldn't be forced to pay anyone more than they want to in this day and age.
A government mandated wage increase is outrageous.
Zundfolge
01-11-2018, 09:43
Fewer kids use pot now than when it was illegal, studies have shown.
Yeah, studies paid for by whom? Studies done by whom? I'm sure there was no agenda at work there.
I don't buy it. Too many pro pot people in the system who have simply stopped looking for pot use now that its legal.
GilpinGuy
01-11-2018, 10:02
That popped into my head too. Stats can be manipulated to say anything you want if you aren't honest. But pot has been super easy to get for decades. Anyone who wanted to smoke before government regulation of it could have, and more cheaply.
Yeah, studies paid for by whom? Studies done by whom? I'm sure there was no agenda at work there.
I don't buy it. Too many pro pot people in the system who have simply stopped looking for pot use now that its legal.
Studies by the federal government. Who still says its illegal and wrong.
http://www.westword.com/news/colorado-teen-marijuana-use-falls-in-federal-study-9782555
Sort of sounds like you agree with him. Maybe he thinks it's a new thing and you don't, but the problem is the same.
It really doesn't matter why these kids aren't worth more than an employer thinks they are - the employer just doesn't and shouldn't be forced to pay anyone more than they want to in this day and age.
A government mandated wage increase is outrageous.
He said "Colorado" kids, as if cheap labor in the restaurant industry in other states isn't drawing from the same pool. That's what I don't buy. As far them packing up and leaving, that's perfectly understandable and contributes to the overall message to local law makers that says, "WTF are you doing?"
Looks like Jack in the Box has run the numbers as well... http://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/2018/01/10/jack-in-box-ceo-swapping-cashiers-for-robots-makes-sense-due-to-minimum-wage-increase.html
However, Comma said that while his fast-food restaurant has tested products with technological advances at their establishments, he has decided to not go forward with the kiosks.
I wonder why they're balking.
kidicarus13
01-11-2018, 18:40
Sam's Club closing 63 stores
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/walmart-abruptly-closing-sam-apos-064451519.html
"The closings came on the same day Walmart announced plans to raise starting hourly wages to $US11, expand employee benefits, and offer workers bonuses of up to $US1,000."
It's really quite simple... 73124
I had to check to make sure they weren't closing the one near me, since there is a shooting at the neighboring Wal-Mart every six months now.
Fewer kids use pot now than when it was illegal, studies have shown.
It's just not cool now that it's readily available, and that it's readily available means it's harder to find someone who will sell under the table, not meeting those 18 years of age to buy laws.
Ask anyone who works in Juvenile probation, they'll say those "studies" are complete BS. And I agree. Most of those studies rely too heavily on "self-reporting." Kids are still afraid to be honest about their use, due to it being illegal for their age and all.
Ask anyone who works in Juvenile probation
Bit of a confirmation bias there, dontcha think?
People who deal exclusively with kids who break the law say all kids break the law?
Bit of a confirmation bias there, dontcha think?
People who deal exclusively with kids who break the law say all kids break the law?
That's not it at all... Working where I do, I get the opportunity to work with and meet probation officers, even in the juvenile system, and they're reporting more of their clients using marijuana than before the law was passed. I know that's a small sampling, and has the tendency to have dealings only with offenders, but if that population correlates at all to the non-offender group at all, it's showing a growing trend. And beyond that, there are more reported cases of underage use of marijuana.
And beyond that, there are more reported cases of underage use of marijuana.
Reported by whom?
Reported by whom?
Police, self-reporting (not the same as the "studies")
Why are teens smoking more weed now? Because it's legal for adults? Sure seems an awful lot like the justification for banning firearms since it supposedly decreases access to them by those that shouldn't have them.
Question: Remember when Cigarrettes were legal to smoke (as they still are) AND were promoted as being HEALTHY, Akin to Vitamins and/or medicine, the cure to all sorts of ailments, the "cool" thing to do, and you were an outcast if you didn't smoke.....
Did that lead to lower rates of teens smoking in the 40's and 50's?
Yeah, it all sounds familiar doesn't it.
"Science" has become a bent-barreled hi point in the hands of a circus monkey. Bias will always prevail.
If weed were treated like Tabacco and generally disdained in society, dating pools, and presumed to be unhealthy; then yes, you would see lower utilization. With all the propaganda distributed, there is little reason for teens not to start smoking weed in Colorado - 1940's revisited. If they don't become a stoner, they will be in pain and depressed after all, and have no friends being such a prude.
There is nothing new in annuls of time, just the same old shit with a different label.
Well put!
SSChameleon
01-12-2018, 21:29
Fun fact, Walmart is increasing their national minimum wage to $11/hr. Not because of any mandate, but they are sharing their gains from the new tax law with employees. That’s right, lower corporate tax rate means corporations can pay employees more.
[QUOTE
"Science" has become a bent-barreled hi point in the hands of a circus monkey. Bias will always prevail.
Kinda being rough on Hi-Point aren't you? After all, I'd be more likely to buy a Hi-point.
Minimum wage increase success story! Spotted today at the Razorback WalMart in North Colorado Springs.
Introducing, the WalBot!
http://nankoweap.com/movies/walbot_obstacle.mp4
O2
You got tricked. That's just the next iteration of Google maps.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.