Danger in the Forest

[Mtneer]

Pretty good article (could use better editing "county police" etc). Old news to those of you up by the Peak to Peak but probably an eyeopener for a lot of flatlanders.

http://www.5280.com/2018/01/danger-in-the-forest/

[Zundfolge]

Depressing read, but this is what you get with years of Democrat rule.

If we want to get rid of the homeless camps full of criminals, we have to first get rid of the Democrats in Denver.

[kidicarus13]

More and more I am hearing Denver and the surrounding areas being mentioned in the same sentence as Portland and Seattle. GROSS!

[.455_Hunter]

Joe Hall is a good man and a direct family friend.

[Skip]

I don't understand why this is tolerated.

Min security prison + work details (cleaning up messes like this) until a person is clean/sober and can demonstrate enough competence to be self-sustainable.

All of the things this blue state forces on me, being a productive citizen, but this is cool.

Sidenote - this is why I carry while hiking even land our family owns. "For the bears."

[Skip]

Joe Hall is a good man and a direct family friend.

Sounds like great man!

[StagLefty]

Sad !!!

[J]

Jeebus.

I'm open carrying a full size sidearm from now on when I take the family into these national forests for a weekend hike. No more sub compact CCW pieces in slightly slower access carry holsters. And likely an AR in the truck for good measure.

[GilpinGuy]

Yeah, it's pretty bad. We had two summer cabins ransacked on my road last winter. One is maybe 300 yards away from my house. The scumbags know they are summer cabins and nobody is around, so they think it's easy pickins. Never before in the 18 years I've been up here has one house been burgled that I know of. And we're pretty deep in the woods, not right off the highway at all.

The Sheriff's Deputy relayed to me and my neighbor that burglaries are through the roof, mostly with summer cabins. He suggested we lock all doors (car and house), which we do anyway, and to set up trail cams to get pics of the bastards.

Pisses me off.

[wctriumph]

My wife and I stopped camping in the mountains many years ago, before we moved to CO, because of the bums that we would run across. Riding dirt bikes in the desert was good, we were too far out from civilization for the locals to bother us. The mountains were different, too close to population and easy to access and hide in.

[colorider]

It's pathetic. They are breaking many laws and are allowed to do it because of limited police/sheriff/ forest service resources. Soon our forests will be full of these scum and nobody will be able to enjoy the natural resources our mountain area have to offer. Give em a warning and a set time and day to be gone. Move in and move them out. With force of needed. My tolerance for these dipshits is ZERO. Bulldoze over their commune and bus their stinky asses across the CO border.

[NeedMoreAmmo]

The volunteer program is a great idea. Generally, LEO will probably never have the resources to patrol these areas sufficiently in proactive mode, and Zero gutted the USFS to the point where I rarely see a ranger. A sanctioned and legal approach is definitely needed, and it needs to be massive.

[crays]

The volunteer program is a great idea. Generally, LEO will probably never have the resources to patrol these areas sufficiently in proactive mode, and Zero gutted the USFS to the point where I rarely see a ranger. A sanctioned and legal approach is definitely needed, and it needs to be massive.

Right up until "volunteer citizen, legally carrying a firearm" is put into a situation where they need to use it. They will then be "armed vigilante, hunting down hapless, harmless, hopeless homeless". The backlash will be deafening.

[Ronin13]

I've conversed with some Boulder SO deputies, and the problem seems to be getting worse. They've even gone into some of these transient campsites and found them abandoned (the "campers" venture into Boulder to panhandle quite frequently). A lot of times they don't have time to wait around, but on some occasions they found campfires still smoldering, and have had to use the transients' water supply to put out the fires- and they aren't stingy with the water. This whole thing is seeming to be a growing problem with no viable solutions. I don't dare go camping anywhere along the front range without at least my sidearm on me at all times. Luckily our favorite spot down in Park County doesn't get a lot of homeless... yet. It's enough to discourage me from camping in/around Nederland or any other parts of Western Boulder County.

[NeedMoreAmmo]

Right up until "volunteer citizen, legally carrying a firearm" is put into a situation where they need to use it. They will then be "armed vigilante, hunting down hapless, harmless, hopeless homeless". The backlash will be deafening.

Your proposed alternative? Neither I, nor the article OP linked suggested that these are armed vigilante groups, but rather the opposite. No different from cleaning up a trashed out shooting area.

[Zundfolge]

Right up until "volunteer citizen, legally carrying a firearm" is put into a situation where they need to use it. They will then be "armed vigilante, hunting down hapless, harmless, hopeless homeless". The backlash will be deafening.

[dark joke]There's always the 3 S's[/dark joke]

[NeedMoreAmmo]

I've conversed with some Boulder SO deputies, and the problem seems to be getting worse. .....

I have heard of a couple of transient camps being cleared out down in this area, along with an illegal pot grow and some poaching. There isn't a lot of water in this area, except for the South Platte, so I think that helps. I haven't heard of any issues up Waterton Canyon, which is surprising.
I haven't been down Rampart Range Road in years (mostly because of the shooting bans), but I see Flight for Life heading in that direction almost daily for the last few summers. No doubt there are a few problems down there, and probably more than one transient camp.

[hatidua]

There are more or less permanent encampments along Boulder Creek right in the middle of town where overnight camping is technically illegal (which is the case anywhere in city limits actually). I volunteered for the annual creek cleanup that Rocky Mountain Anglers sponsors this year and when the cops were called about one major camp (complete with sofa's and recliners), they said "no, that portion of the creek is on CU property". When the CU police were called, they couldn't be bothered.

If there's no penalty, why would anyone expect these homeless to obey laws?

[crays]

Your proposed alternative? Neither I, nor the article OP linked suggested that these are armed vigilante groups (1), but rather the opposite. No different from cleaning up a trashed out shooting area (2).

I think you're reading your own meaning into my statement.
(1) I was never suggesting armed raiding parties.
(2) Not apples:apples. This is their perceived "home".

I'm referring to when a group of volunteers on a clean up sweep are harassed/assaulted by a/the "resident/s" of the targeted area, to the point where it results in an armed self-defense scenario. Who is going to be screeching the loudest? Common-sense, productive law-abiding conservatives, or SJW's/the Left/the MSM... And just WHAT do you think they are going to be screeching about?

I know a lot of locals of all flavors would want to be involved in reclaiming their communities. I suppose you could request the vols to go in unarmed, or possibly LE escorted.
I think it would be great if the folks who are creating this situation (liberal D's) would do the bulk of the voluntary reclamation of these areas., along with anyone else that wants to help, but I have a feeling that would not be the case.

Anyway... Not trying to stir the pot, just trying to clarify my original response.

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

What is truly, truly tragic are the hippies trying to raise children like this. Most are neglected, the ones that aren’t are intentionally taught some horrible lessons.

[kidicarus13]

Reminds me of the related problems of the Rainbow Family gatherings in Colorado...

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/22/rainbow-family-gathering-in-colorado-shrinking/

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/colorado-police-prepare-for-new-rainbow-gathering

http://www.steamboattoday.com/news/rainbow-family-members-gathering-in-routt-national-forest/

[NeedMoreAmmo]

I think you're reading your own meaning into my statement.
(1) I was never suggesting armed raiding parties.
(2) Not apples:apples. This is their perceived "home".

I'm referring to when a group of volunteers on a clean up sweep are harassed/assaulted by a/the "resident/s" of the targeted area, to the point where it results in an armed self-defense scenario. Who is going to be screeching the loudest? Common-sense, productive law-abiding conservatives, or SJW's/the Left/the MSM... And just WHAT do you think they are going to be screeching about?

I know a lot of locals of all flavors would want to be involved in reclaiming their communities. I suppose you could request the vols to go in unarmed, or possibly LE escorted.
I think it would be great if the folks who are creating this situation (liberal D's) would do the bulk of the voluntary reclamation of these areas., along with anyone else that wants to help, but I have a feeling that would not be the case.

Anyway... Not trying to stir the pot, just trying to clarify my original response.

Granted that a cleanup group might be required to defend themselves. That situation would have to be dealt with when / if it happens I suppose, by the law. I would think that being confronted by a hostile group would be enough to get the SO involved, rather than a crew having to deal with some incident between private parties out in the woods.

I am all in favor of armed defense, and it is a valid point that having to resort to that manner of discouraging these invaders would be all over 9news. Perhaps coordinating these with the local LEO agency and USFS would be the best approach. It seems that is what the Peak 2 Peak folks are doing, with some success.

[Mtneer]

Reminds me of the related problems of the Rainbow Family gatherings in Colorado...

Nah, the Rainbows have been around for decades and overall fairly harmless. Heck, they even get permits for gatherings, have their own medic teams, and provide portajohns. Generally pretty good at self policing and cleanup, then they move on.

What's going on with the homefree in the past few years is far, far worse. This really is a new ugly problem. There have already been several wildfires due to this crowd, now that we're looking at a drought year....

[GilpinGuy]

Nah, the Rainbows have been around for decades and overall fairly harmless. Heck, they even get permits for gatherings, have their own medic teams, and provide portajohns. Generally pretty good at self policing and cleanup, then they move on.

What's going on with the homefree in the past few years is far, far worse. This really is a new ugly problem. There have already been several wildfires due to this crowd, now that we're looking at a drought year....

No, no....those fires are all caused by firearms and tannerite, so we have to stop shooting in the forest. The hippies are all about peace, love and the environment, so let them squat. [facepalm]

[hollohas]

The area I hunt was FILLED with squatters this year. They were everywhere. They were camped in and around all of the grounds we hunt. It sucked.

[TFOGGER]

Your proposed alternative? Neither I, nor the article OP linked suggested that these are armed vigilante groups, but rather the opposite. No different from cleaning up a trashed out shooting area.

Substantially lower chance of being stuck with a used hypodermic needle at most shooting sites, although the "people" that leave behind all kinds of garbage there disgust me as well. Cleaning up these camps puts the Samaritans at risk, even when the occupants aren't there to harass them. Not to mention the biohazard from just the basic filth that they choose to live in.

[Ah Pook]

Don’t get me started. To say the problem is on the rise is a vast understatement.

[jslo]

Few weeks ago they had a major "eviction" and clean out at Santa Fe and Mississippi. Park Rangers, police and "volunteers" with piles and shopping carts of blankets, sleeping bags, trash....

[hurley842002]

These were two different RV's parked within a mile of one another on Soda Creek road above Idaho Springs.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180104/20f1b9bfc5610e9cc24b3cc97e2d3c2c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180104/064ff7f27bbfdb65179f77fafa98a0e7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180104/5daf94e0a38008f578cb121f5daf1305.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180104/2f5d758978a74a2ef839ab9471a066b7.jpg

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[GilpinGuy]

Don’t get me started. To say the problem is on the rise is a vast understatement.

I'm biting my tongue here as well. It's all been said and, sadly, it won't change. If a few vagrants destroying several homes won't do it, what will it take?

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

NOT a suggestion, but if a budding young "dexter" wanted to learn his trade, this would be the place. LE has no interest nor resources to even investigate.



Edit: Based on the skull in the story, sounds like has already happened to some extent.

[NeedMoreAmmo]

I'm biting my tongue here as well. It's all been said and, sadly, it won't change. If a few vagrants destroying several homes won't do it, what will it take?

As usual, unless it is Hicks house that gets burned down, or some connected Dem critter's, little will happen on the state level. Grassroots and local enforcement routes are probably the only viable ones.

[Ah Pook]

As usual, unless it is Hicks house that gets burned down, or some connected Dem critter's, little will happen on the state level. Grassroots and local enforcement routes are probably the only viable ones.

Not a political problem but a perception problem. "It's the mountains, we can do what ever we want." Not just a transient problem either.

FS cries poor mouth and the Sheriff's dept says call if ya need anything. Lame response on both counts.

[kpp80202]

The story in this article makes me sick. I’ve been hiking and camping in Colorado for over 20 years and fortunately have never seen anything like this. (I typically get at least an hour west of metro Denver, though.)

Luckily, the worst thing that happened to me was camping with my family near Redcliff when at night I heard loud music thumping. I got out of my tent to investigate, and saw weird lights in the trees about a quarter to a half mile away. It turns out it was a rave for 4 guys turning 40 that summer. Maybe 30 people. They thought they were so far off the beaten path, and miles away from all campgrounds, they wouldn’t bother anyone. They did turn the music down a bit, and I felt kinda bad for them under the circumstances, but we worked it out. Plus, the next morning the women were skinny dipping in the river...

[OtterbatHellcat]

This is another group of posts in a thread that exemplify why I don't want to be in Colorado anymore.

Yes there are other reasons as well.

[Chaffee2]

Unfortunately it seems to be state wide. Here in Chaffee County and surrounding counties we are getting slammed with dopers, squatters and the rest. It is absolutely disgusting what this state has become. I don't know if its the feds, hickenlooper or who exactly is not letting law enforcement take care of these problems. In many areas around here it is getting out of control. I know several Leo's that are able and willing to take care of the dopers and the other problems but are not allowed to even talk to them not to mention to arrest or investigate them. The population explosion in the state isn't helping either. During the summer around here it is next to impossible to get away for a few hours and not have dozens or more people on every damn road and trail.

[Joe_K]

Strap all of them to the outside of the trucks filled with water going to California and send them along. All the volunteer helping hand folks can come down and pack them a sack lunch and give them a moving blanket and a tarp, slap on the ass and buh-bye Felicia!


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[jslo]

California now has legal weed and they'd probably like the milder winter climate plus all the extra benefits they could get.

[colorider]

We camp fairly often in the area around Buena Vista in the summer. Try and go every other weekend for 3-4 days. Ride dirt bikes, hike, target shoot safely, gold pan etc.
Last summer we saw a huge increase in vagrant camps, beater rvs off in the woods, trash everywhere. One spot actually had a damn bookcase full of crap set up outside their RV. Said RV had no door, a flat tire, painted windows. There was a scooter in the camp, a rear seat out of some sedan type of car, of course the book case, a bunch of junk, lawn chairs, a few tents set up. Trash everywhere. This particular camp was set up for the entire summer. Calls to the forest service, sheriff, and forest rangers obviously were ignored or they simply didn't approach the site. We called 3 times, all 2 weeks apart. The occupants would leave every day around 9am. Come back around 4am. Car was a complete beater with a trunk that would not close. Was bungee corded. The last 2 weekends we decided to send an "Unvitation" to the occupants. Not going to say what it was, but will say that we did not destroy any property or harm anybody (they were not there). It was the last few weekends we went so I don't know if they stayed around. I sure would have bailed.

[Irving]

California now has legal weed and they'd probably like the milder winter climate plus all the extra benefits they could get.

Not for $45 for three joints and up to 34% tax they won't.

[jslo]

Not for $45 for three joints and up to 34% tax they won't.

Not if you tell 'em

[Skip]

Not for $45 for three joints and up to 34% tax they won't.

I thought cost/tax was similar in CO?

Hence the illegal grows and trade (yuge margin for profit).

[Zundfolge]

Not for $45 for three joints and up to 34% tax they won't.

Taxes on pot in CO are similar. You pay regular sales tax (which is 2.9% state plus whatever your county, city, etc adds on ... so that's 9.030% in Manitou Springs, the closest place to me for recreational weed), plus 10% MJ tax, plus there's a 15% excise tax on it as well.

I'm hoping potheads are drawn to the beautiful weather in CA and go back, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Irving]

Even with similar taxes, I'm pretty confident that three joints can be had here for under $15.00. I can make some phone calls to find out if need be.

I got the $45 number from an article I read on the first, all about people waiting in line to be the very first to purchase in California when it was legalized. Of course, like all new things, I expect the price to level out, but my hopes of people flooding back to the West coast were dashed upon reading the article and seeing the prices. The other guy in the article bought a flower (?) and some other stuff and spent $150!

[00tec]

Flower just means he bought some regular weed. Not the concentrates, edibles, etc.

[Zundfolge]

Even with similar taxes, I'm pretty confident that three joints can be had here for under $15.00. I can make some phone calls to find out if need be.

I got the $45 number from an article I read on the first, all about people waiting in line to be the very first to purchase in California when it was legalized. Of course, like all new things, I expect the price to level out, but my hopes of people flooding back to the West coast were dashed upon reading the article and seeing the prices. The other guy in the article bought a flower (?) and some other stuff and spent $150!

Are you sure that heavy pot smokers are the kind of people that make decisions by weighing the pros and cons of both sides and then determining the best course of action?

We're talking about twentysomethings that hitch hiked out here 'cause they heard "Colorado gots legal weed [insert Beavis & Butthead style laugh here]" without even considering how they were going to feed themselves nor where they would live.

We need to start posting pics of happy losers smoking weed on the beach with well endowed women in bikini's hanging all over them all over the place to put the subtile idea in their heads that "CA has weed AND boobies!".

[SuperiorDG]

We need to start posting pics of happy losers smoking weed on the beach with well endowed women in bikini's hanging all over them all over the place to put the subtile idea in their heads that "CA has weed AND boobies!".

And where are you getting these pictures?

[Skip]

[snip]

We need to start posting pics of happy losers smoking weed on the beach with well endowed women in bikini's hanging all over them all over the place to put the subtile idea in their heads that "CA has weed AND boobies!".

THIS!!!!

Along with some FakeNews of people freezing to death while stoned in CO. And warn about the Colorado Toilet Spider.



Even with similar taxes, I'm pretty confident that three joints can be had here for under $15.00. I can make some phone calls to find out if need be.

[snip]

I guess I'm naïve. When "legalization" started I read stories of $200-400/oz. Looking at the cars outside of dispensaries, I really wondered how the customers can afford it.

[roberth]

THIS!!!!

Along with some FakeNews of people freezing to death while stoned in CO. And warn about the Colorado Toilet Spider.

YES!! A forest spider that jumps up a persons arse when they squat.




I guess I'm naïve. When "legalization" started I read stories of $200-400/oz. Looking at the cars outside of dispensaries, I really wondered how the customers can afford it.

Priorities dude.

[Skip]

[snip]

Priorities dude.

I assume the same priorities when it comes to buying food, paying for rent, etc... which is why there is so much need.

[Zundfolge]

And where are you getting these pictures?

Google Image Search (https://tinyurl.com/y8vzd8fa) - NSFWish (but not too bad)

[SamuraiCO]

Its so much better since they stopped allowing those yahoos with guns to shoot in the forest.

[ZERO THEORY]

Some of you may remember a story about a mountain biker killed on Mt. Herman this summer. The victim's name was Tim Watkins; a man known across the state in the community, and mountain biking especially. My department director was a good friend of his, and spoke at his wake, and many of my work associates used to ride with him. His suspected murderer is also wanted in connection with a pair of murders back in IN.

When it happened, it seemed like an outlier; a freak act of violence that is unlikely to be replicated. Until a young woman was found not far away shortly after. And then, on Labor Day weekend, I personally witnessed nearly half a dozen presumed vagrants with out of state plates taking advantage of the national forest by creating trash-filled camps. Tarps were strung up to make quick shelters. Fire rings were littered with aluminum and glass. Plastic and paper was strewn about.

But it's not just vagrants. I've seen "joke" vandalism in the form of spraypaint on rocks (dicks, curse words, fake SOS messages), and a woman was banned from national parks and forests a while back for painting her "art" on ageless rock faces. It boils down to people not having any regard for the outdoors anymore. The vagrants just happen to be the most dangerous and worst offenders.


Its so much better since they stopped allowing those yahoos with guns to shoot in the forest.

Although target shooters continue to be the 2nd worst culprits. Every 25-40 year old with a Bushmaster and Ruger SR9 takes his old computer monitors, glass bottles, and clay pigeons just off the road, and lays waste to everything in sight. Then he leaves his brass and trash behind when he zips away. Bad apples aren't painting a good picture for us, either.

[Ronin13]

Some of you may remember a story about a mountain biker killed on Mt. Herman this summer. The victim's name was Tim Watkins; a man known across the state in the community, and mountain biking especially. My department director was a good friend of his, and spoke at his wake, and many of my work associates used to ride with him. His suspected murderer is also wanted in connection with a pair of murders back in IN.

When it happened, it seemed like an outlier; a freak act of violence that is unlikely to be replicated. Until a young woman was found not far away shortly after. And then, on Labor Day weekend, I personally witnessed nearly half a dozen presumed vagrants with out of state plates taking advantage of the national forest by creating trash-filled camps. Tarps were strung up to make quick shelters. Fire rings were littered with aluminum and glass. Plastic and paper was strewn about.

But it's not just vagrants. I've seen "joke" vandalism in the form of spraypaint on rocks (dicks, curse words, fake SOS messages), and a woman was banned from national parks and forests a while back for painting her "art" on ageless rock faces. It boils down to people not having any regard for the outdoors anymore. The vagrants just happen to be the most dangerous and worst offenders.



Although target shooters continue to be the 2nd worst culprits. Every 25-40 year old with a Bushmaster and Ruger SR9 takes his old computer monitors, glass bottles, and clay pigeons just off the road, and lays waste to everything in sight. Then he leaves his brass and trash behind when he zips away. Bad apples aren't painting a good picture for us, either.

My blood absolutely boils when I'm out in the woods and find an abandoned camp (because I would say something if there were people there) that is just trashed and refuse left with no regard. I've also pretty much stopped shooting in national forest areas because I got tired of cleaning up other people's messes. I used to go up Squaw Pass all the time, but after coming down the mountain with 10-15x more trash than I brought in, I got a little tired of it. We're gonna lose the ability to do these fun things because people are lazy assholes. [Mad]

[rondog]

California now has legal weed and they'd probably like the milder winter climate plus all the extra benefits they could get.

That's what I'm hoping for, a large exodus of maggots heading for their Promised Land.

[rondog]

We camp fairly often in the area around Buena Vista in the summer. Try and go every other weekend for 3-4 days. Ride dirt bikes, hike, target shoot safely, gold pan etc.
Last summer we saw a huge increase in vagrant camps, beater rvs off in the woods, trash everywhere. One spot actually had a damn bookcase full of crap set up outside their RV. Said RV had no door, a flat tire, painted windows. There was a scooter in the camp, a rear seat out of some sedan type of car, of course the book case, a bunch of junk, lawn chairs, a few tents set up. Trash everywhere. This particular camp was set up for the entire summer. Calls to the forest service, sheriff, and forest rangers obviously were ignored or they simply didn't approach the site. We called 3 times, all 2 weeks apart. The occupants would leave every day around 9am. Come back around 4am. Car was a complete beater with a trunk that would not close. Was bungee corded. The last 2 weekends we decided to send an "Unvitation" to the occupants. Not going to say what it was, but will say that we did not destroy any property or harm anybody (they were not there). It was the last few weekends we went so I don't know if they stayed around. I sure would have bailed.

Was dogshit or roadkill involved?

[ZERO THEORY]

We're gonna lose the ability to do these fun things because people are lazy assholes. [Mad]

No question about it. And off-road trails are shutting down by the handful each year too, because both inconsiderate/unexperienced 4x4 drivers trash them, and OHV riders (namely side-by-siders AKA the scum of the earth) are constantly doing 50 around blind corners and going off-trail. Twin Cone, for example, is now permanently closed, and there's still an open lawsuit fighting to shut down a few dozen different trails from motorized use all over Pike/Arapahoe National Forests.

I love public land. I hate most of the sections of the public that use it.

[kidicarus13]

(namely side-by-siders AKA the scum of the earth)



Why the harsh judgement?

[colorider]

Was dogshit or roadkill involved?

Wow. Um. Yep. There was some dog shit involved. And maybe some tannerite to "remodel" their housing. It was fucking awesome and I would do it again. And will.

[roberth]

No question about it. And off-road trails are shutting down by the handful each year too, because both inconsiderate/unexperienced 4x4 drivers trash them, and OHV riders (namely side-by-siders AKA the scum of the earth) are constantly doing 50 around blind corners and going off-trail. Twin Cone, for example, is now permanently closed, and there's still an open lawsuit fighting to shut down a few dozen different trails from motorized use all over Pike/Arapahoe National Forests.

I love public land. I hate most of the sections of the public that use it.

That is what I see too.

People driving too fast, making new trails, dumping their trash, etc. etc. The Forest Service is watching and closing trails as a result.

[ZERO THEORY]

Why the harsh judgement?

I have tried to reserve judgement for years. And to date, I have yet to see a single one of them signal how many are in their convoy or employ right-of-way etiquette. At the same time, the overwhelming majority are either dusting other passers-by, riding off trail, speeding excessively, cutting the apex off blind corners, etc. etc.

I was in Stevens Canyon/Beef Basin halfway between Moab and Monticello in the middle of absolutely nowhere early last year. A group of side by siders roll up with a Moab city road map and ask for directions because they didn't know where they were at. They had no gazeteers, no compass, no GPS, no land navigation equipment of any kind, and were out zipping around 90 minutes from the nearest emergency responders without provisions. They then tried to pass one of my guys doing an active recovery 'cause they couldn't be bothered to wait, and nearly drove through a winch line that was tensioned. It was the perfect embodiment of every side by sider I've ever seen.

It's a big, dangerous "toy" that people with zero expertise or ability take out with no training or regard.

[crays]

It was the perfect embodiment of every GUN OWNER I've ever seen.

It's a big, dangerous "toy" that people with zero expertise or ability take out with no training or regard.

Sound familiar?

[Irving]

Sound familiar?

I'd say it's probably not far from the truth concerning people who go to the woods to shoot. But that's just me being high and mighty.

[Ronin13]

I'd say it's probably not far from the truth concerning people who go to the woods to shoot. But that's just me being high and mighty.

Watch your steps around here, the slopes can get a little slippery. Not saying Zero Theory's complaints don't have merit.

[ZERO THEORY]

Sound familiar?

Fair point.

[.455_Hunter]

My theory is that many the "problem children" with public land recreation (including shooters, 4x4, OHV, etc) are "first generation" participants, and did not receive mentorship from parents or grandparents on how to conduct themselves responsibly in their youth.

[TFOGGER]

Hey now, let's keep this thread on track: It's for bitching about hippies. You wanna bitch about ATV/UTV drivers, start yer own damn thread... [blaster]

[ZERO THEORY]

Hey now, let's keep this thread on track: It's for bitching about hippies. You wanna bitch about ATV/UTV drivers, start yer own damn thread... [blaster]

https://i.imgur.com/2uTYnZT.jpg

[encorehunter]

We have our vagrant camps down here around Trinidad as well. Trashing the riverbottom and havING plenty of fire calls down there. It is quite unnerving at times.

As to the utv riders, we aren't all bad. I couldnt even get my Mule to the advertised 26mph going downhill on pavement. No flying around corners here. We don't really joy ride though. It is used for work like it us supposed to be.

[rondog]

Wow. Um. Yep. There was some dog shit involved. And maybe some tannerite to "remodel" their housing. It was fucking awesome and I would do it again. And will.

"LIKE"