View Full Version : A non NFA SBR?
Sorry if this is a double post, I didn't see it anywhere else. I just saw this article about a non NFA SBR from Franklin Armory. The article suggests a rifled shotgun but I don't see that happening. I'm confused how they did this. An ar with no rifling maybe?
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/01/jeremy-s/new-franklin-armory-reformation-non-nfa-sbr-like-thing/
Some of the comments are speculating that it would be a smoothbore AR with a rifled "choke" like device. I would think that would give it minute-of-semi-trailer kind of accuracy, but who knows?
Buttstock fixed and too short on LOP to be considered a proper buttstock?
Will be interesting to see what it is.
I did a ton of searching and can't find the patent. I did read speculation that it's somehow it's all about the trigger.
hollohas
01-11-2018, 20:58
It's binary for sure. You can see their big red sticker around the selector. I would think there would need to be more to it than that. Maybe they also modified the lower so that it can't accept a standard trigger?
The speculation is that the definition of "rifle" includes the specific wording "pull" of the trigger but this doesn't just fire on the "pull"...?
Here's my guess. It obviously has multiple firing modes from what we can see of the selector. If it was a standard binary trigger, the "semi" mode would allow firing one round per each "pull" of the trigger. That would meet the definition of "rifle". But what if in "semi" mode it didn't fire on the pull, but only on the release? (The like some old timers trap guns). Then on "binary" mode it would fire on release and then pull.
Semi-mode:
Press trigger - no bang
Release trigger - bang
Binary mode:
Press trigger - no bang.
Release trigger - bang
Press again - bang
Don't want to fire on the next release? Switch the selector, sort of like how you do on their current binary triggers.
thvigil11
01-11-2018, 21:33
Definitely something to do with the lower and trigger. Close look at the picture and you can see the upper and lower are cut different from a standard ar pattern to prevent the use of any regular ar part. Look closely at where the recievers junction at the buffer tube. Trigger plate marks semi and binary. Plus Franklin has been focused on trigger tech for some time. I'm gonna guess a resetting mechanism, similar too the three round burst, but something that avoids the definition of single pull of the trigger.
Think they'll come out with a binary trigger for pistols?
thvigil11
01-11-2018, 21:48
Actually, looking again, the reciever halfs look the same as their other regular sets. But in the interest of honesty, I'll leave my previous post. Still think it's some resetting feature, though.
Great-Kazoo
01-11-2018, 23:38
Think they'll come out with a binary trigger for pistols?
No, however be nice to see (rumor has it) them showing one at SS for the AK. I'd like to see one for a 10/22, would give me a reason to take the one out of the safe that's been there for 7-10 years .
hollohas
01-23-2018, 13:05
The secret is in.
It uses straight lands and groves. in other words, there is no rifling so it's not a rifle.
www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/01/23/shot-2018-secret-franklin-armorys-reformation/
4-5" groups at 100 yards in a $2000 "non rifle"???
No thanks. A pistol arm brace will continue work just fine.
If they are available today, they will sell a boatload of them to tactical Timmeys and maybe survivalist types. Good for them for figuring out how to charge a bucket full of money for them.
It's a bummer they didn't find a better loophole. Guess it got some attention to their company though. I'd rather pay the $200 and wait a year than buy one of those. I would like to see the shuttle cock ammo though. I can't imagine they're going to sell many of these.
Lol. In other news, a car that doesn't need gas -- has a hole in the floorboard for you to plod along like Fred Flintstone.
hollohas
01-23-2018, 15:34
http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/IMG_0244-e1516727015755.jpg
Projectile under development.
After watching the video with the Franklin armory guys from shot, they suggest that the shotgun is a shotgun because it has a smooth or, and a rifle is a rifle because it has rifling that projects spin to the projectile. So what I’m wondering is if you can legally take a rifled slug barrel and put it in a shotgun you do not change the legal definition of that shotgun to a rifle, so if someone were to buy this Franklin armory SBF and installed a rifled barrel what would be the difference?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well, since the minimum barrel length for a shotgun is longer than the rifle minimum, it doesn't really matter if the designation changed, right? Serious question.
68Charger
01-23-2018, 20:33
After watching the video with the Franklin armory guys from shot, they suggest that the shotgun is a shotgun because it has a smooth or, and a rifle is a rifle because it has rifling that projects spin to the projectile. So what I’m wondering is if you can legally take a rifled slug barrel and put it in a shotgun you do not change the legal definition of that shotgun to a rifle, so if someone were to buy this Franklin armory SBF and installed a rifled barrel what would be the difference?
no difference from if you built one from scratch with a stock on a lower and a rifled barrel less that 16"... it's a felony
This whole idea is one ruling away from being banned... I get the ambiguity- it's not "rifled" because there's no twist... it's not a shotgun, because the bore is not smooth. Rifled barrels on shotguns have been allowed as a "sporting" exception... but that's to avoid DD, not SBS/SBR... since the bore is over .500"
http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/IMG_0244-e1516727015755.jpg
Projectile under development.
Don't know why but it reminds me of a lawn dart. I want something that'll shoot those!
That FA rep doesn't seem to be too into their new product.
The secret is in.
It uses straight lands and groves. in other words, there is no rifling so it's not a rifle.
www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/01/23/shot-2018-secret-franklin-armorys-reformation/
4-5" groups at 100 yards in a $2000 "non rifle"???
No thanks. A pistol arm brace will continue work just fine.
Frankly I don't see the big market to skirt sbrs. Sure there's time involved but it's pretty cheap and easy. Full auto skirting I get. It is super expensive to do "legally".
Shouldering arm braces is a far cheaper route to go than this. Which is ok the last i saw from the ATF.
Grant H.
01-24-2018, 18:35
Shouldering arm braces is a far cheaper route to go than this. Which is ok the last i saw from the ATF.
Latest response I know https://www.sigsauer.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/atf-letter-march-21-2017.pdf
Use a bone stock sig brace...
hollohas
01-28-2018, 18:57
Hahttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180129/74ea1af218899e030520029cb208f9a1.jpg
Hahaha because they can't hit a damn thing right?
hollohas
01-28-2018, 21:23
.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180129/1411514dd8ea7b9dccb1d8dcea4033bf.jpg
73330
My thoughts on this.
colorider
01-29-2018, 23:28
The joke at shot show was that somebody dropped the gun. And missed the floor.
Wonder if it has tumbling issues too. I'd be a little nervous to throw a can on it.
Grant H.
02-03-2018, 14:20
The reviews I have seen say that they aren't seeing tumbling at 100yds, but yeah, it would worry me...
http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/imgs/m252-81mm-mortar.jpg
I have a hard time believing that the accuracy would be any better...
In six months someone will develop something that will greatly increase accuracy for this platform, and charge $200 for it. The waiting list will be so long that it will take 9 months to receive.
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