Trijiicon ACOG 4x32 TA01B

[CoGirl303]

I don't know too much about optics, but several people have told me the Trijicon ACOG's are the premier scope for the AR-15. This is the one I am looking at for my S&W M&P Sport II.

http://www.scopelist.com/trijicon-ta01b-acog.aspx


Can anyone list the pro's and con's of these types of scopes?

All I know is that they are virtually indestructible, waterproof, won't lose their set sight if jarred or dropped, don't require batteries and are highly accurate.

thank you!

[kidicarus13]

The only thing I don't like about mine is the fixed power. Offset back-up sights are an option. Otherwise great choice.

[mutt]

4X32 ACOGs have limited eye relief. About 1.5 inches. But in return you get a great field of view. I love my ACOGs.

[CoGirl303]

4X32 ACOGs have limited eye relief. About 1.5 inches. But in return you get a great field of view. I love my ACOGs.

when you say limited eye relief, what do you mean?

[mutt]

when you say limited eye relief, what do you mean?

Eye relief is the distance from the rear lens your eye requires to see a full picture. On an 4x32 ACOG you have to get pretty close.

[davsel]

when you say limited eye relief, what do you mean?

Irrelevant when shooting .223 with such little recoil.
Makes a difference on heavy kicking rifles that may pop you in the eyebrow if you are too close to the scope.

ACOGs are great scopes

[CoGirl303]

Eye relief is the distance from the rear lens your eye requires to see a full picture. On an 4x32 ACOG you have to get pretty close.

ok thank you.


Irrelevant when shooting .223 with such little recoil.
Makes a difference on heavy kicking rifles that may pop you in the eyebrow if you are too close to the scope.

ACOGs are great scopes

that makes sense. Thank you.

[CS1983]

My only caveat warning would be to check the BDC reticle drop graduations against your actual drop. They tend to be graduated for sea level conditions and likely won’t match up here.

[BushMasterBoy]

I read your intro post and saw your AR. Without derailing this thread, may I suggest a Sure Fire type light for darkness shooting as a higher priority than an optics. I always fear I may accidentally fire on someone who is a friend or loved one. Best of luck in your accessorizing your AR.

[SideShow Bob]

The one you linked is for .308 / 7.62x51. Your ranging marks and POI will be way off with .223 / 5.56x45.

[CoGirl303]

My only caveat warning would be to check the BDC reticle drop graduations against your actual drop. They tend to be graduated for sea level conditions and likely won’t match up here.

I'm not sure what any of that means. I'm new to optics. Only have experience with iron sights and a cheap UTG scope on my other AR-15.



I read your intro post and saw your AR. Without derailing this thread, may I suggest a Sure Fire type light for darkness shooting as a higher priority than an optics. I always fear I may accidentally fire on someone who is a friend or loved one. Best of luck in your accessorizing your AR.

thanks. I will look into one.



The one you linked is for .308 / 7.62x51. Your ranging marks and POI will be way off with .223 / 5.56x45.

from the description in the link.

http://www.scopelist.com/trijicon-ta01b-acog.aspx#description

the concept is simple; a durable scope with a reticle that illuminates in low light situations. And the best part is that it doesn’t require batteries. Over 25 years later, the original ACOG stands the test of time and remains one of our most popular items. ACOG 4x32 Scope with Full Line Red Illumination features black crosshairs during daytime and tritium illuminates reticle at night. The reticle ranges out to 800 meters for 5.56 (.223 cal).

Trijicon ACOG TA01B ships with:
1 Carry Handle Screw and Washer Set (TA30)
1 4x32 Scopecoat (TA64)
1 LENSPEN (TA56)
1 Trijicon Logo Sticker (PR15)
1 ACOG BAC Manual
1 Warranty Card
Specifications:-

MPN: 100106
MPN 100106
UPC 719307301207
Magnification Range: 4x
Objective Lens Diameter: 32mm
Eye Relief: 1.5"
Exit Pupil 8mm
Field of View: 36.8' @ 100 yards
Scope Turret Adjustment: 2 clicks/inch @ 100 yards
Dimensions: 5.8" L
Weight: 9.9 oz
Item Condition: New

From what I gather, this is for a 5.56mm/.223. The reticle style is the same as that of a .308, but I could be wrong. I guess I'll call them tomorrow to confirm.

but contradictorily...Trijicon's website says .308

https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=TA01B

(Glad you saw that and glad I didn't order yet!)

[CoGirl303]

nevermind.

I chatted with a rep on their website. That scope is for the .308. Thank you guys for pointing that out!



This is the correct scope.
http://www.scopelist.com/trijicon-ta01-acog.aspx

[CS1983]

For what I mean, consult this thread on Calguns, and then imagine (or even calculate) how that differs in your neck of the Rockies, with your system, your ammo, and the varying environmental factors.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-562798.html

Now, this is ONLY a training issue. Once you verify where your rounds hit within the BDC reticle, you just adjust training to make the "500m" mark your 400m aiming point (or whatever it is).

[izzy]

I've never owned one but have shot a few rifles with an acog on it. I really liked them, so clear, didn't notice any eye relief issues at all. When I was going this route I was talked into an elcan over the acog. I'm pretty happy with my choice too.

[Wolfshoon]

What is your purpose for this rifle, that is first and foremost. (Home defense, range toy, long distance, precision, CQB, prairie dogger. some of these are not interchangeable with each other)

Acogs are wonderful glass and bombproof. (I have a couple still, including the 4x32 and 3.5x35) They also have limitations, some very significant and price is one of them.

The eye relief on the 4x32 is stupid short and the eye-box is small as well. Consistent cheek weld is mandatory with this scope and the cross reticle BDC is crap (BDC is crap on ANY scope, calibrated mildots or hashmarks are far superior in every situation for a scope). Trijicon only gives a 10 year warranty on the illumination, cost of replacement illumination is way overpriced--$600 last I looked into it. With that said, I still have probably 2/3 to 3/4 original brightness in my 1995 TA04 4x32 acog. Once you find the eyebox the view is very good, trijicon glass is on par with leica in my opinion. The scope is also fairly small, but still heavy for its size.

The 3.5x35 is a much better optic all around, but bigger and much heavier. Eye relief is a lot better and eyebox is bigger and it has dual illumination, both radioactive lamp and ambient fiberoptic. Spearpoint reticle with another crappy BDC drop. Other than the weight penalty this is much more enjoyable to shoot than the 4x32. The best Acog I dont have anymore was a 3x30 TA-33 with horseshoe reticle. Best compromise on weight and size with great glass, still had the BDC reticle. Ran this one a lot with the front cover on as red dot sight using bindon aiming concept.

A HD gun has no business with a high magnifcation scope on it, a red dot sight, LPVS or irons fulfill this role much better. A good red dot sight will also get acceptable accuracy out to 200 yds. My aimpoint with a 2MOA dot rings 6" steel consistently at 200. You can also run a 3x magnifier behind a red dot if you have to have magnification. Good red dots are between $300-800 new. Alternative to a red dot is a quality Low Power Variable Scope in 1-4x or 1-6x range and you can get out a lot longer in yardage. Price ranges $300-1200 for quality.

Range toys, precision and long range AR can make use of a scope. 2.5-10 power variable is a solid choice for 5.56 and 4-14x works ok too. For prairie dogging I'll put a 5-20x on from one of the bolt rifles. Price range starts climbing rapidly for quality glass.

If you're talking about an acog, you have a pretty good budget and there are several quality red dots or scopes you could get within or under that budget. Optics are expensive and it pays to research them a lot before buying. I'd look heavily on a couple optics forums and really figure out what I want my rifle to do before buying glass.

[CoGirl303]

For what I mean, consult this thread on Calguns, and then imagine (or even calculate) how that differs in your neck of the Rockies, with your system, your ammo, and the varying environmental factors.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-562798.html

Now, this is ONLY a training issue. Once you verify where your rounds hit within the BDC reticle, you just adjust training to make the "500m" mark your 400m aiming point (or whatever it is).

I have no clue what any of that even means.

[DireWolf]

Lots of good advice in this thread...



BDC is crap on ANY scope, calibrated mildots or hashmarks are far superior in every situation for a scope...

^^^This. Personally, I can't stand BDC reticles (for several reasons, many of which have been mentioned previously), but that's just my opinion and I know some are fond of them.

ETA: If you want to spend for quality and don't need any magnification, it may be worth looking at an Aimpoint Micro/Red Dot; otherwise, the previous recommendation for something like a quality 1-6 (e.g. Vortex Razor HD Gen2 1-6×24 MRAD) is a good place to start...

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

[Joe_K]

Having been issued an ACOG/RCO in my time in the Marine Corps, I can honestly say I would never spend my own money on one. So many better options out there currently. If someone absolutely needed the most rugged optic on the market today then look at the 1-6X VCOG.
Since most of us aren’t contending with the types of rigors that Military service entails, a basic 1-whatever Low Power Variable Optic, or LPVO is THE 95% solution to 95% of the shooting 95% of us will do out to 500 yards to maybe even 800 yards depending on your particular skill level, rifle, and cartridge selection. If you know you are dealing with distances under 100 yards 100% of the time than a Holographic Weapons Sight, or HWS, or a Red Dot Sight aka RDS is going to be king. If you are doing most of your work beyond 500 yards than something like a First Focal Plane Mil/Mil graduated optic like a 3-15X, 5-20X etc is probably the way to go. It’s all about knowing the requirements/mission, then picking the right size and type hammer, err optic for the task at hand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wolfshoon]

I have no clue what any of that even means.

He didnt type it up very well, but is basically stating that you would need to make a dope chart for your particular ammo to work with the Acog drop BDC with the factory MOA equivalents from trijicon. If you do not understand these terms then hold on to your $$$ and do more research until this stuff makes sense. You still need to tell us what you want your rifle to realistically do.

It's your $$$, you can spend it how you want, but I like to get the best value for the buck. I've made too many mistakes buying stuff that did not fulfill my needs and then cost more to correct. Buy wisely once, cry once. Case in point, bought a nikon prostaff 3x9 rimfire scope a few years ago for steel dogs. Nice glass for the money, and that was the selling point, had a nice pic looking through it. The BDC reticle was great for the one distance it was zeroed for, the other 12 target ranges in steel dogs were worthless with this scope. Wound up replacing it with a mil dot scope that could do all 13 targets accurately and still have the nikon wasting space and money in the safe doing nothing.

[CoGirl303]

He didnt type it up very well, but is basically stating that you would need to make a dope chart for your particular ammo to work with the Acog drop BDC with the factory MOA equivalents from trijicon. If you do not understand these terms then hold on to your $$$ and do more research until this stuff makes sense. You still need to tell us what you want your rifle to realistically do.

It's your $$$, you can spend it how you want, but I like to get the best value for the buck. I've made too many mistakes buying stuff that did not fulfill my needs and then cost more to correct. Buy wisely once, cry once. Case in point, bought a nikon prostaff 3x9 rimfire scope a few years ago for steel dogs. Nice glass for the money, and that was the selling point, had a nice pic looking through it. The BDC reticle was great for the one distance it was zeroed for, the other 12 target ranges in steel dogs were worthless with this scope. Wound up replacing it with a mil dot scope that could do all 13 targets accurately and still have the nikon wasting space and money in the safe doing nothing.

this seemed to explain a lot.

https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/the-straight-dope-on-bdc-scopes/


I think one of the big reasons I want the ACOG is because it won't lose it's zero/sight once you get it set even if you drop it.

I'm hard on things and tend to break stuff so I want a scope that if I drop it, I'm not going to break it and be upset I'm out $500-$1,000+

Mostly range use, but I am interested in taking some tactical carbine courses and of course if we ever find ourselves in a war situation, it'd be nice to have that versatility.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CS1983]

Several companies offer 100% warranty of which I'm aware: Vortex and Burris. Unsure on Trijicon.

Zero is not necessarily a set and forget thing. Environmental factors, ammo changes, and yes, even dropping it, can have an impact on POA vs POI.

There's nothing per se wrong with the ACOG, aside from being overpriced. But I think Molon Labe and others have a good point about the versatility of a 1-6x or 1-8x scope. I've been really impressed with the burris 1-8. Has good tracking, the reticle is useful on 1x w/ illumination on, not exceptionally heavy. Less $$ than an ACOG.

Totally understand the love affair with the ACOG -- ran one on both tours and enjoyed it. But, I have no use for a fixed 4x if the BDC is useless at altitude and some of the offerings the military doesn't supply its folks are more versatile. YMMV. Just do some good, objective research before plunking down the coin. I'm sure if you have specific scopes you're looking into, the membership here has one and can let you look through it or even do some shooting with one.



The only thing I'd count as a plus with the ACOG is it doesn't need batteries. However, 2032's aren't expensive and have a good shelf life -- especially if you rotate your stock of them.

[CoGirl303]

warranties dont cover being dropped.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DireWolf]

warranties dont cover being dropped.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Vortex warranty covers everything except deliberate damage, and I can personally attest to the fact that if anything happens (functional) they will make it right...

http://www.vortexoptics.com/content/vip_warranty

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

[CoGirl303]

nice


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CS1983]

Burris:


Every Burris optic is covered by the Burris Forever Warranty™. We will repair or replace your Burris optic if it is damaged or defective. The warranty is automatically transferred to future owners.

No repair or replacement charge
No warranty card needed
No receipt needed
No questions asked

The Burris Forever Warranty does not cover loss, theft, deliberate damage or cosmetic damage that does not hinder the performance of the produ


https://www.burrisoptics.com/customer-service/warranty

Vortex:




Our VIP warranty is about you, not us. It's about taking care of you after the sale.

VIP stands for a Very Important Promise to you, our customer. We will repair or replace your Vortex product in the event it becomes damaged or defective—at no charge to you. If we cannot repair your product, we will replace it with a product in perfect working order of equal or better physical condition.

You see, it doesn't matter how it happened, whose fault it was, or where you purchased it. You can count on the VIP Warranty for all Vortex Optics riflescopes, prism scopes, red dots, rangefinders, binoculars, spotting scopes, tripods, and monoculars.

Unlimited Lifetime Warranty
Fully transferable
No warranty card to fill out
No receipt needed to hang on to

If you ever have a problem, no matter the cause, we promise to take care of you.

Note
The VIP Warranty does not cover loss, theft, deliberate damage or cosmetic damage that does not hinder the performance of the product.


http://www.vortexoptics.com/content/vip_warranty


Trijicon:


LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY

Trijicon warrants that products manufactured by Trijicon will be free from defects in material and workmanship for the lifetime of the original owner. Trijicon will repair or replace (at our option) the registered product. This warranty does not apply to defects caused by anything which is deemed abnormal, abusive, or improper including any fault resulting from an accident or improper service. This warranty specifically applies to the optical systems and metal structure of the product and does not apply to the illumination system.
https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/support/warranty.php

Trijicon ACOG blurb:

The Trijicon ACOG (Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight) is a fixed power, compact
riflescope with an illuminated reticle pattern for use in bright to low/no light. The ACOG is
designed to be extremely durable and reliable. Combining traditional, precise distance
marksmanship with CQB speed, many variants include a bullet drop compensated (BDC)
reticle. Every feature of its design was chosen for a single purpose: to provide increased
hit potential in all lighting conditions.

Between Vortex, Burris, and Trijicon, I'd go Burris. They're based in CO, their warranty will cover your butter fingers, their offerings are more versatile, and tracking on the 1-8 is superb. Trijicon products are overpriced and under-warrantied. For being so stinking proud and adamant that the ACOG is reliable and durable, I don't think their warranty reflects that. Did I mention overpriced?

[Irving]

warranties dont cover being dropped.



You're a little new to the game to be this argumentative.

[Joe_K]

Where are you getting that ACOG’s don’t lose zero?
I have personally had one ACOG lose zero dropping from about 2’ onto concrete. I was shooting my last rifle and M9 qualification in the Marine Corps, after pre quail in the rifle range we hustled over to the pistol range and were instructed to rack our rifles in the racks. Turns out the weapons rack I picked wasn’t bolted down and the next guy to rack up jostled it and mine and several other rifles fell. I’m pretty sure that was the only time I didn’t have to do push-ups as the result of my weapon hitting the deck. The impact looses the two bolts that hold the base onto the optic body. I could crank on the mounting thumb it’s all day and the scope would still wiggle. Had the bolts retightened and I was off enough at 300 and 500 yards to cause me to shoot a middle of the road Sharpshooter instead of Expert on the Table 1 course of fire. Bottom line anything made by man, that uses threads, or is mechanical can or will fail. Every time I went to Qual there were always Marines who is zero had shifted significantly on their issued rifle or carbine equipped with an ACOG


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hurley842002]

You're a little knew to the game to be this argumentative.Like button...

[Irving]

Like button...

Thanks for quoting me, or else I never would have caught that spelling error. Was is it, my first day on the internet? Sheesh!

[hurley842002]

Thanks for quoting me, or else I never would have caught that spelling error. Was is it, my first day on the internet? Sheesh!I just figgered you had a few too many to drink, that's usually my problem when I make grammatical errors. Now back to our regularly scheduled "seeking information, and then arguing with the responses".

[Irving]

Having too many to drink at 11:42 am is a poor reflection of me. Heh. Oh well. Carry on. :)

[Gman]

Thanks for quoting me, or else I never would have caught that spelling error. Was is it, my first day on the internet? Sheesh!
I actually thought it was intentional. Just you being cerebral again with the play on words and the lack of knowledge on display.

[CS1983]

Having too many to drink at 11:42 am is a poor reflection of me. Heh. Oh well. Carry on. :)

https://pics.me.me/its-called-day-drinking-charlie-brown-im-game-15807015.png

Be better if he was hauling a ladder on a minivan.

[CS1983]

I dunno that we gotta castigate the lady over her preconceived notions of the ACOG's superiority. It's a wonderful optic in the right context. It's not magic. It's not Marine proof (I'm not sure anything is Marine proof, frankly; certainly not bended knee camping trips [mop]). It's not even 2' to the concrete proof. It's a simple, fixed power optic that has earned the mythos of military usage and it generally works quite well (just because the military uses it doesn't make it the best thing ever). It's just not the only answer. It's not even the only answer in its optic class, and certainly not in its price bracket. There's a certain je nais se quoi to the thing. Maybe it's the fact that one can see further than with fixed irons. Maybe it's that they just have to throw the BDC on the target's torso and guestimate the distance. Maybe it's the forum logo has the effect which so many marketing teams hope for: subconscious bias in favor. Who knows.

She doesn't know any of us from Adam.

...did I mention overpriced?

[DireWolf]

I dunno that we gotta castigate the lady over her preconceived notions of the ACOG's superiority.

I agree. It can be difficult sometimes to really get your hands wrapped around an unfamiliar body of knowledge, particularly in areas prone to common/general misconceptions which must be overcome in the process. We've all been there at some point...

In any case, I'm sure the recommendations & perspectives in this thread will provide some food for thought, and if nothing else, help lead to a more informed initial purchase...

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

[CoGirl303]

I've been told by several different people who have either owned one or do own one it's nearly indestructible, and that they hold zero very well even when dropped. Also been told that it's one of most reliable scopes and great for urban warfare training, target practice and home defense.

So that's why I'm a bit high on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DireWolf]

....nearly indestructible....hold zero very well even when dropped...one of most reliable scopes...great for urban warfare training, target practice and home defense.



An Aimpoint would hit all of those requirements nicely (assuming you dont have an astigmatism), and without the magnification which may prove problematic for your last use-case...


Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

[Joe_K]

I've been told by several different people who have either owned one or do own one it's nearly indestructible, and that they hold zero very well even when dropped. Also been told that it's one of most reliable scopes and great for urban warfare training, target practice and home defense.

So that's why I'm a bit high on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well those people are wrong.

It’s not one of the most reliable scopes.

Why?

The BDC doesn’t work as advertised, it uses bolts to attach the mount to the optic and only two at that, the tritium is expensive to replace and only lasts 10-15 years and the turrets often do not track accurately.

It is not great at Urban Warfare Training.

Why?

Horrible eye relief, fixed power optic, slower than any RDS, HWS, or 1-4/5/6/8X LPVO, No quick way to adjust brightness of reticle.

It is one of the worst choices for Home Defense.

Why?

It’s a fixed power 3.5/4X optic. In fact it sucks so bad at violent, fast, close in work that the Military issues many of them with a piggybacked Ruggedized Miniature Reflex Optic, or RMR on top. If your Home Defense plan has the strong potential for shots to be made out to 500 yards, a fixed power optic on a commercial hobby grade AR15 is probably not your best option.

If the people who recommended any of the above to you as practical applications for a fixed power 3.5/4X optic are friends or family write them out if your will, and don’t take advice from them on anything shooting related again. They probably also recommend open carrying Springfield Armory XD’s in SERPA holsters, using ball ammo for Self Defense, and not shooting any pistol caliber that doesn’t start with a 4.

If an ACOG were so great at any of the things listed you would find them attached to the FBI’s HRT, JSOC Assaulters, and major city’s SWAT entry Carbines.

They are marginally better than iron sights.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CoGirl303]

wow you sound so angry


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KS63]

Look at an Aimpoint T2

[Wolfshoon]

If the people who recommended any of the above to you as practical applications for a fixed power 3.5/4X optic are friends or family write them out if your will, and don’t take advice from them on anything shooting related again. They probably also recommend open carrying Springfield Armory XD’s in SERPA holsters, using ball ammo for Self Defense, and not shooting any pistol caliber that doesn’t start with a 4.

If an ACOG were so great at any of the things listed you would find them attached to the FBI’s HRT, JSOC Assaulters, and major city’s SWAT entry Carbines.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lol, that first paragraph made me laugh Molon, so true!

However, his second statement is also very telling and also true. The Acog is a good optic, there are better choices (Marines want every man to have a magnified optic, they want every man to be able to spot things and have a 4x binocular. They disguise it as a scope so the marine wont toss it aside or lose it as dead weight. )

Looking over your rifle listed in your intro thread, *my personal load out* would be:
1) Aimpoint Pro or H1/H2 with a 2 MOA dot. These are proven RDS's with verifiable track record
2) 1-4 or 1-6 LPVO scope from SWFA, Burris or Vortex (or if you want to drop big coin, Leupold AR6 series, or nightforce). Stay away from the low priced weaver, bushnell, barska or whatever other cheap low end scope that wont reliably track or focus .

You can add a 3-5x magnifier behind the RDS as an optional add on later if needed. You will never feel like you bought cheap crap with the aimpoints or suffer buyer's remorse. Buy once, cry once.

[Joe_K]

wow you sound so angry


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When you’ve been hearing the same untrue, unproven tropes about shooting, gear, tactics, and weapons it starts to genuinely piss you off that such things are still pushed onto people new to this. People who do this are Derpy Tacti-Tards, fighting the Derp takes a toll, usually in the form of creating a short tempered, fools not abiding, salty attitude having person.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[crays]

She doesn't know any of us from Adams.



FIFY

[emoji23]

Sent from somewhere

[CoGirl303]

It’s a fixed power 3.5/4X optic. In fact it sucks so bad at violent, fast, close in work that the Military issues many of them with a piggybacked Ruggedized Miniature Reflex Optic, or RMR on top.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

if 3.5/4x fixed power scope is so bad, then what makes the Aimpoint pro 1x power fixed scope any better?

I'm thoroughly confused now.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hurley842002]

if 3.5/4x fixed power scope is so bad, then what makes the Aimpoint pro 1x power fixed scope any better?

I'm thoroughly confused now.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I scrolled back through all of your posts in this thread, and I still don't see (unless I overlooked it) where you mentioned your intended purpose for the rifle. With the Acog you get no choice but the 3.5/4x magnification, other optics such as the Aimpoint pro 1x mentioned in your post will perform well under a wide range of scenarios, specifically close quarters/urban scenarios, whereas the Acog is better if you are intending to reach out further (not what I would use a carbine for). It sounds like you want to take some carbine classes, I would not use an Acog for that purpose, I'd rather have iron sights than an Acog for up close work.

[J]

if 3.5/4x fixed power scope is so bad, then what makes the Aimpoint pro 1x power fixed scope any better?

I'm thoroughly confused now.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The 1x is MUCH faster to get on target and keep on target through recoil for up close shooting than a fixed 4x.

It's not that much fun trying to find a target at 15-50yds with magnification quickly.

I own both, but I have a sizeable collection so I have the luxury to have an optic on a gun that is just for specific purposes. Unless most of your shooting is 100-300yds, with an occasional shot out to 500yds the acog isn't your best option.

But like others have asked, what is the intended purpose of the rifle for you? Home defense, match shooting, plinking at a 100yd range. Plinking at a range 50yds and under?

[DireWolf]

if 3.5/4x fixed power scope is so bad, then what makes the Aimpoint pro 1x power fixed scope any better?

I'm thoroughly confused now.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Magnification (or lack thereof), reaction time, and most importantly, using the right tool for the job...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180130/773baacbd295fbaa28e115b04c766a2d.jpg

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

[CoGirl303]

so the Vortex 3x Spitfire wouldnt be a good option?

is there a good all in one scope? [emoji19]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DireWolf]

If home defense/cqb is one of your primary use cases, ANY magnification (even 1.5x) is not going to be your friend. If you want something more versatile but still useful for HD, something in a quality 1-4/1-6/1-8 (e.g Vortex, Burris, etc.) is the clear choice....

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

[J]

Agreed. If I only had a single AR-15, I'd run a 1-4/1-6/1-8 optic.

Check out the Burris mtac 1-4. Good choice and lots of 3gun matches have proven it pretty well.

Alternatively, what is your budget, I could suggest some others more high or low end as well.

[CoGirl303]

Agreed. If I only had a single AR-15, I'd run a 1-4/1-6/1-8 optic.

Check out the Burris mtac 1-4. Good choice and lots of 3gun matches have proven it pretty well.

Alternatively, what is your budget, I could suggest some others more high or low end as well.

$830 is my budget. I dont neccessarily need to spend that much.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hoser]

ACOGs suck up close and are a pretty solid choice from 50 to 500 yards for large (stop sign sized) targets.

I still have a TA-11 Donut on my 14.5 upper. I shoot it once every couple years to remind myself why I switched to a 1-4 and 1-8.

[Joe_K]

if 3.5/4x fixed power scope is so bad, then what makes the Aimpoint pro 1x power fixed scope any better?

I'm thoroughly confused now.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

People have been shooting people with Iron Sight equipped Rifles since at least the 1600’s. A 1x RDS like the Aimpoint offers significant advantages over Iron Sights. One can easily keep both eyes open, focus on the target and focus on cleanly pressing the trigger. If you can hit a target at a given distance with Iron Sights, you can do it faster and typically with better results with an RDS.

A fixed power optic only lets you see what you are shooting at closer, 2x larger, 3x larger, 4x larger etc.

I’m going to assume you have used binoculars before with the following example.

You have a set of 4X Binos on the dash of your car, they work great for when your parked on a hill overlooking a canyon and want to see something in the distance. Those same Binos suck if you try to use them driving on I 25 at 70 MPH.

A 1-4X will give you 95% if the benefit of a fixed power optic like an ACOG, and 95% of the benefit of a Red Dot Sight like an Aimpoint Pro.

There are numerous examples of quality LPVO’s and mounts out there available for under your stated budget of $830.

Optics:

https://www.opticsplanet.com/trijicon-accu-point-1-4x24-riflescope.html

https://www.opticsplanet.com/steiner-1-4x24mm-p4xi-30mm-tactical-riflescope.html

https://www.opticsplanet.com/atibal-velocity-1-4x.html

https://www.opticsplanet.com/nikon-force1000-1-4x24mm-riflescope-speedforce-illum-ret.html

https://www.opticsplanet.com/vortex-strike-eagle-1-8x24mm-riflescope.html

https://www.opticsplanet.com/vortex-viper-pst-gen-ii-1-6x24-sfp-riflescope.html

https://www.opticsplanet.com/atibal-xp6-mirage-1-6x-w-rapid-view-lever-front-focal-plane-ffp-riflescope.html

https://www.opticsplanet.com/leupold-vx-5hd-1-5x24mm-30mm-duplex-reticle-riflescope.html

Mounts:

https://geissele.com/super-precision-scope-mount-30mm-for-ar-15-1-93-height.html

https://www.opticsplanet.com/aero-precision-ultralight-30mm-scope-mount-extended.html

https://www.opticsplanet.com/american-defense-amer-def-recon-h-30mm-q-d-scope-mount-2-offset-high.html

https://www.opticsplanet.com/warne-ramp-rapid-acquisition-multi-sight-platform-tactical-scope-mount.html



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180131/1f26d88a33b93ec6585a5695a5415c8c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180131/1682714c8acd269e016a11161a3bcaf4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180131/a1e46de3991b96307a30702e9ac10be4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180131/1f35d47bccc4a4df36f8555ba302da7b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180131/a76f6800b6ebd5f0a7fcb22678f2e99d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180131/cbf36ae38807a0f10517ff62c3e05b19.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180131/83ec1248122a843b6e689ee15f9d4a8a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180131/3e6b0214c67b945114445c6675aa5960.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180131/d401dd26e7d3e28ab8a00b9044f203ad.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180131/5c486bf4c0b60938976735248028a4d7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180131/3c18e83995de7a7f55797354f97cf834.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mick-Boy]

I was issued an ACOG in Iraq in 2004 when I was in the Marines. I've been deploying continuously since 2006 and I've never put an ACOG back on my rifle. There are reasons for that.

There are better options out there but you need to identify what you want to do with it.

[Joe_K]

These videos explain in detail the pros and cons of the various types of optics available.

Trijicon TA31 4x ACOG
https://youtu.be/tzYyXlHIVlo

Trijicon MRO
https://youtu.be/NadM4zD8oJ8

Trijicon TR-24 1-4x
https://youtu.be/UoadS9VyBCo

Trijicon 1-6x VCOG
https://youtu.be/XcKcxo7laks

Various Mfg 1-6 x LPVO
https://youtu.be/JHzvI6zu7Mo

Aimpoint T-2 Micro & EOTech EXPS 3-0 HWS
https://youtu.be/yQqkAu2rZAg

EOTech EXPS 3-0 HWS With G33 Magnifier
https://youtu.be/e69vhJR76IM





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CoGirl303]

thanks Molon. I feel a bit better now that I can differentiate between all the options and have some reasonably basic knowledge. Tried reading before but all the terminology was a bit complex and I didnt seem to be finding the correct reading material.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Joe_K]

thanks Molon. I feel a bit better now that I can differentiate between all the options and have some reasonably basic knowledge. Tried reading before but all the terminology was a bit complex and I didnt seem to be finding the correct reading material.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Glad to help.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CoGirl303]

This is what I ended up ordering. I had an acquaintance who let me try a variety of different scopes.

https://www.opticsplanet.com/vortex-viper-pst-gen-ii-1-6x24-sfp-riflescope.html

https://www.opticsplanet.com/v/cm-530-vortex-precision-qr-extended-cantilever.html

$799 shipped for everything. 10% off coupon, plus they were having a sale on the scope and mounts as it was. The scope also has a red dot in the dead center of the reticle so that's a nice feature.

[Mick-Boy]

I think you'll be much happier with that than you would have been with an ACOG.

[CS1983]

Very good. Much better choice. More features, more range of magnification, more versatile depending on load, and able to be used across multiple platforms if you decide to do so.

[Wolfshoon]

Did you get the MIL or MOA reticle?

Either way, good choice as Vortex supports their products well and puts out a decent product. IMHO this is a far better option compared to the ACOG.

[CoGirl303]

Did you get the MIL or MOA reticle?

Either way, good choice as Vortex supports their products well and puts out a decent product. IMHO this is a far better option compared to the ACOG.

this one (Vortex VMR-2 MRAD Reticle)
https://op1.0ps.us/978-550-ffffff/opplanet-vortex-vmr-2-mrad-r1.jpg

[Joe_K]

Good stuff!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CoGirl303]

Good stuff!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I hope so.

[CoGirl303]

Can anyone recommend some better scope mounts than the Vortex 30mm Cantilever rings I bought?

The front A2 sight is cowitnessing which is annoying to my eyes.

This cantilever is also way too heavy.

I need a 30mm ring mount with a high riser in it.

Sending the vortex cantilever back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CS1983]

Aero.

[Mick-Boy]

How high are you trying to go?

The highest mounts I'm aware of are the Larue 1.93 and the Geissele 2.04 and 1.93. These mounts are made to clear lasers or make it easier to shoot while wearing a gas mask. They also tend to make cheek weld from the prone almost impossible. They are also not cheap.

Unfortunately with optic mounts, heavy and durable often go hand in hand. Spuhr makes bomb proof mounts but they are heavy and expensive. For what it is, your vortex mount isn't a bad deal. ADM also makes pretty good mounts at a reasonable price.

You might want to think about training past that issue.

For reference, this is a Larue 1.93 on my rifle in the picture
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4297/36171300426_7efba3a390_b.jpg

[Great-Kazoo]

Can anyone recommend some better scope mounts than the Vortex 30mm Cantilever rings I bought?

The front A2 sight is cowitnessing which is annoying to my eyes.

This cantilever is also way too heavy.

I need a 30mm ring mount with a high riser in it.

Sending the vortex cantilever back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Shitcan the A2 sight. Replace with a gas block / flip front one, like the YHM
https://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Yankee-Hill-Machine-yhm-Front-Flip-Sight-Tower-p/yhm-9394%20flip%20sight%20tower.htm

[CS1983]

Shitcan the A2 sight. Replace with a gas block / flip front one, like the YHM
https://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Yankee-Hill-Machine-yhm-Front-Flip-Sight-Tower-p/yhm-9394%20flip%20sight%20tower.htm

She'd need to change out gas block and handguard too, as her rifle (based on past pics) has fixed A2/gas block setup and MOE handguard/non-picatinny.

It's a training issue, imo.

CoGirl303 -- Depending on return policy, you might consider just selling the mount on here or seeing if anyone has something they want to trade.

FWIW, one can only Erector Set For Adults so far until they have to focus on the training deficiency. The grass isn't brighter on the other side of the hill. It's just glistening with the tears of purchasers frustrated that they couldn't buy away training time. ;)

[hurley842002]

She'd need to change out gas block and handguard too, as her rifle (based on past pics) has fixed A2/gas block setup and MOE handguard/non-picatinny.

It's a training issue, imo.

CoGirl303 -- Depending on return policy, you might consider just selling the mount on here or seeing if anyone has something they want to trade.

FWIW, one can only Erector Set For Adults so far until they have to focus on the training deficiency. The grass isn't brighter on the other side of the hill. It's just glistening with the tears of purchasers frustrated that they couldn't buy away training time. ;)Completely agree.

[Great-Kazoo]

She'd need to change out gas block and handguard too, as her rifle (based on past pics) has fixed A2/gas block setup and MOE handguard/non-picatinny.

It's a training issue, imo.

CoGirl303 -- Depending on return policy, you might consider just selling the mount on here or seeing if anyone has something they want to trade.

FWIW, one can only Erector Set For Adults so far until they have to focus on the training deficiency. The grass isn't brighter on the other side of the hill. It's just glistening with the tears of purchasers frustrated that they couldn't buy away training time. ;)

Subscribed to your news letter ;)

That is a gas block unit. Hand guard stays the same along with front hand guard retainer. Remove A2 sight pins and gas tube, replace with this or similar unit.

And yes without actually training with the tools on hand, one does not get any better at the task.

[colorider]

I have some Weaver brand High Mount Tactical 30mm rings I don't need. Brand new in package. PM me if you would be interested. Will make ya a deal.

[Joe_K]

If the height to the center of your rings measured from the top of the flat top upper receiver rail is less than the measurement to the center of your rear sight aperture than you will probably get a sore neck from craning over to get proper eye relief and have a good sight picture with no scope shadow. Whatever measurement your current set is, make sure your next one is a meaningful distance taller, say .25” or more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CoGirl303]

Shitcan the A2 sight. Replace with a gas block / flip front one, like the YHM
https://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Yankee-Hill-Machine-yhm-Front-Flip-Sight-Tower-p/yhm-9394%20flip%20sight%20tower.htm

the only issue with ditching the A2 sight is that I lose the bayonet mount. [emoji20]



She'd need to change out gas block and handguard too, as her rifle (based on past pics) has fixed A2/gas block setup and MOE handguard/non-picatinny.

It's a training issue, imo.

CoGirl303 -- Depending on return policy, you might consider just selling the mount on here or seeing if anyone has something they want to trade.

FWIW, one can only Erector Set For Adults so far until they have to focus on the training deficiency. The grass isn't brighter on the other side of the hill. It's just glistening with the tears of purchasers frustrated that they couldn't buy away training time. ;)

but but but, the AR-15 is completely customizable! or so they say. [emoji19]



Subscribed to your news letter [emoji6]

That is a gas block unit. Hand guard stays the same along with front hand guard retainer. Remove A2 sight pins and gas tube, replace with this or similar unit.

And yes without actually training with the tools on hand, one does not get any better at the task.

Then I lose my bayonet mount. Just trying to get my AR the way I want it.


If the height to the center of your rings measured from the top of the flat top upper receiver rail is less than the measurement to the center of your rear sight aperture than you will probably get a sore neck from craning over to get proper eye relief and have a good sight picture with no scope shadow. Whatever measurement your current set is, make sure your next one is a meaningful distance taller, say .25” or more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So using 30mm rings that are 1" high would cause issues?

I was looking at these

https://www.opticsplanet.com/trijicon-30-mm-steel-accupoint-riflescope-rings-standard-tr107-intermediate-tr108-or.html?_iv_code=TJ-RR-Steel30mm-TR109



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CS1983]

but but but, the AR-15 is completely customizable! or so they say. [emoji19]
[snip]



It is, but that doesn't mean it's just remove and slap on new things without some tools, etc.

[CoGirl303]

It is, but that doesn't mean it's just remove and slap on new things without some tools, etc.

I don't recall ever saying it did.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Joe_K]

So using 30mm rings that are 1" high would cause issues?

I was looking at these

https://www.opticsplanet.com/trijicon-30-mm-steel-accupoint-riflescope-rings-standard-tr107-intermediate-tr108-or.html?_iv_code=TJ-RR-Steel30mm-TR109



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Those will be way too low. You want something north of 1.6” high or better.

This is a great mount, simple, sub $100, and light to help offset some of the weight of the Vortex optic.

https://aeroprecisionusa.com/ultralight-30mm-extended-scope-mount.html

Or this one that pushes the optic further forward on the receiver rail to better allow a rear BUIS to be attached.

https://aeroprecisionusa.com/ultralight-30mm-spr-scope-mount.html




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CoGirl303]

Those will be way too low. You want something north of 1.6” high or better.

This is a great mount, simple, sub $100, and light to help offset some of the weight of the Vortex optic.

https://aeroprecisionusa.com/ultralight-30mm-extended-scope-mount.html

Or this one that pushes the optic further forward on the receiver rail to better allow a rear BUIS to be attached.

https://aeroprecisionusa.com/ultralight-30mm-spr-scope-mount.html




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

but do they get the scope above the A2 front sight? I don't see anything about the rise specs on there.

[Joe_K]

but do they get the scope above the A2 front sight? I don't see anything about the rise specs on there.

Any optic in the 1-4x range will have a fixed front sight base somewhat visible. With a mount designed for the AR the center post should not appear in the center FOV in the scope, in other words you will “see it” but it will be lower than what you are focusing on I.e. the target and the reticle of the optic. With my issued fixed power 4x32 Trijicon RCO/ACOG I could see a ghosted A-2 Front Sight base, the lower magnification you go the crisper that front sight will appear. Which is why you want something higher than ~ 1.6”. Not sure why Aero doesn’t list those specs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Joe_K]

Ok, so from what I’ve found online the 30mm Aero Precision Mounts place the centerline of the optic at around 1.5”.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CoGirl303]

After my second time at the range with the AR and the scope, I didn't notice the A2 sight cowitnessing at all this time when shooting from 50 or 100 yards, so I think it would be money and time wasted to return the cantilever mounts and get the Burris 30mm 1.6" high scope rings I found.