View Full Version : School Shooting in KY
wctriumph
01-23-2018, 15:04
Breaking news, School Shooting in KY, 2 dead and 17 injured, 15 year ol perp' in custody.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/23/kentucky-school-shooting-leaves-at-least-two-dead-and-17-others-injured-officials-say.html
Here we go again.
Prayers up for the victims and their families.
KevDen2005
01-23-2018, 15:15
All the comments on one website already blaming things like bullying and you know what else!
.455_Hunter
01-23-2018, 15:15
The low resolution pic on foxnews.com right now shows a suspect being led away in handcuffs. Given the perp is 15 and the pic shows him being the same size, or larger than the adult LEO handling him, a supposed motive is not too hard to derive- the bullied and taunted "big kid" strikes back at his tormentors.
CoGirl303
01-23-2018, 21:51
All the comments on one website already blaming things like bullying and you know what else!
kids don't just shoot up schools for fun. something led to this.
The low resolution pic on foxnews.com right now shows a suspect being led away in handcuffs. Given the perp is 15 and the pic shows him being the same size, or larger than the adult LEO handling him, a supposed motive is not too hard to derive- the bullied and taunted "big kid" strikes back at his tormentors.
Yet our schools and administrators and teachers continue to allow bullying to happen and condone it by turning the other cheek.
Being bullied is horrible. not everyone can stand up and defend themselves. Some just aren't physically strong enough to fight back. Others aren't mentally tough enough to deal with it.
At what point do we start holding bullies accountable as well as their enablers? What does it take? How many more have to die?
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Irrational people being irrational.
Prayers go out to the victims.
...and before people start losing their shit about bullying, has that information even been released?
My bet is that this kid has a history of issues with a number of warning signs that went unheeded.
Kentucky school shooting kills 2, wounds 13, teen arrested (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-kentucky-shooting/kentucky-school-shooting-kills-2-wounds-13-teen-arrested-idUSKBN1FC209)
Kentucky Governor Matt Bevin’s voice choked with emotion and he paused to collect himself at a news conference earlier on Tuesday where he spoke of the shooting.
“There’s no good answer for it,” Bevin said.
My feeling exactly. Bullying or not, there's no justification for this.
This one didnt hold the media's attention at all. They really are caught up with this DACA crap.
Grant H.
01-23-2018, 22:43
Yet our schools and administrators and teachers continue to allow bullying to happen and condone it by turning the other cheek.
Uh, care to back this up with actual fact and information?
Because I don't believe for a second that school admin/teachers "condone" bullying...
CoGirl303
01-23-2018, 22:55
Uh, care to back this up with actual fact and information?
Because I don't believe for a second that school admin/teachers "condone" bullying...
I was bullied in elementary and middle school and a portion of high school.
My 6th grade teacher sat there watching it happen and laughing at me and did NOTHING to stop it or intervene. If you dont stop it or intervene, to me that's condoning it and allowing it to continue.
Fast forward nearly 20 years, the same school district I went to in Missouri is still having the same problems with students being bullied and lack of dealing with it. My friend's daughter goes to a school in the same district and she was being bullied horribly and she went to the teacher, principal and campus resource officer and nothing was done. They've been fighting with the board the past year and a half to get a resolution.
I'm a mentally tough girl and I got through it, but I remember the feeling of being emotionally wrecked that I'd just cry when I got home and I dreaded going to school the next day.
This happens all over the country, every single day to kids.
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CoGirl303
01-23-2018, 22:57
My feeling exactly. Bullying or not, there's no justification for this.
there's never a "justification" for something like this, but there are "explanations" as to why this happened, what caused it, what led to this to happen.
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Uh, care to back this up with actual fact and information?
Because I don't believe for a second that school admin/teachers "condone" bullying...
I don't have a comment in this thread except for that there is a pretty recent documentary all about this. Probably worth checking out if you can't fathom how bullying would be allowed in schools.
there's never a "justification" for something like this, but there are "explanations" as to why this happened, what caused it, what led to this to happen.
You have a very different definition of "explanations" than I or Merriam-Webster.
Grant H.
01-23-2018, 23:18
Does bullying occur? Absolutely...
Guess what, kids will be kids... Sorry, but until you start lobotomizing (chemically or physically) society during infancy, it's not going to change. *ETA* Before anyone loses their mind, I am not suggesting that lobotomizing infants is an option or should ever be considered.
Do teachers condone it? Nope. (Said example of "teacher sat there and laughed at me" would be an outlier, not the norm)
Are they allowed to intervene? Hell no... They can't do anything without fear of being sued.
Are the school principals/administrators allowed to intervene? LOL... C'mon... Nope. They don't want sued either.
So, I guess this goes back to whether it's "allowed" or whether it just occurs...
It just occurs...
Grant H.
01-23-2018, 23:28
Either way...
Bullied or not, that doesn't justify, answer, explain, rationalize, or add any other form of clarity to why a scum bag would take a gun to school and kill friends/teachers...
Is anyone blaming the media for glorifying it and causing copycats? They don't talk about teen suicide because of copycats but they promote mass shootings like they are daring the retards out there to do better.
GilpinGuy
01-24-2018, 02:38
My 2 cents here.
My stepson is in middle school. Last year he was being bullied for a while (never told me) and blurted out one day "stop [whatever the dick was doing] or I'll jump off the balcony". It was all verbal bullying shit. Nothing physical.
A full day of "mandatory" mental evaluation by the state before he was allowed to return to school, followed by a 2 hour conference at school. Fucking horseshit. Luckily the state deemed my son's mental condition acceptable and he was "released" to me. I couldn't fucking believe it when the woman actually said, "I've decided to release him to you". I bit my tongue and left without saying another word.
What happened to the bully? He was told to stop by the counseler. No detention or anything at all. A few minutes in her office and off he went. AYFKM?
I made it very clear that attorneys will be involved if this kid harasses my son at school again and nothing is done by the staff. Yes, he reported it to them before hand a few different times. Nothing was done. So please don't tell me it doesn't happen. Maybe you are a teacher and would have taken some action - good on you. There aren't enough like that.
BTW, my son had no intention of jumping off the balcony. It was a spur of the moment outburst to get this douchebag kid to stop tormenting him. He's one of the happiest people I know. Even the state authorized mental health evaluator said he seemed like a happy kid.
Yeah, it's anecdotal, but I think the "look the other way" attitude is out there, big-time. Folks are afraid of being sued.
Also, I do think boys will be boys and told my son to never let anyone physically assault him and to whip their ass without a thought if they try. He might get in trouble at school for defending himself, but he'll get rewarded at home. I told the counseler that too and she was not happy. Too fucking bad.
I used to get bullied in school and walking home. And I never fought back. I would get home and get bullied by my older sister and older brothers. Around 14 yo I got tired of it and fought back against my sister and picked her up and threw her over the couch. With very little effort too. I never thought that the first few punches hurt that bad so when I fought back against bullys they didn't hurt me but I would bloody noses and kicked balls and they were brought down very easy. Bullying hasn't been a problem on the street for a very long time. Being bullied by politicians still happens and when I fight back their little mincy balls always shrivle up and they run away. I am just not scared anymore either. Its quite peaceful too. I don't really want to hurt anyone. But I can only be pushed so far before fighting back. I think I only lost one fight and it was bad when he cheated and used a mid eights Murcury Tempo and ran me over. I have had back pain ever since. But it healed and I am still fighting for myself and other people that get pushed around too. I don't give a fuck usually comes to mind. The other day a woman was getting beat by her husband and I didn't have a gun a phone dick. And I chanced him down and his friends caught up. But I starred them down and they left. Very scary to be out numbered 4 to one. But I was going fight dirty though. Kick balls, throw grocery carts and scratch eyes. But it ended without a fight. And the woman got away. YMMV.
That was some deep dark secrets I let show there. I hope it helps. Sorry about the typos. However, I just had to let it out before I lost my nerve.
Sorry, but until you start lobotomizing (chemically or physically) society during infancy, it's not going to change.
G-23 Paxilon Hydrochlorate (http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/G-23_Paxilon_Hydrochlorate)
O2
Martinjmpr
01-24-2018, 11:22
WRT "bullying" how is this defined?
Let's face it, kids can be little assholes sometimes. I probably was when I was a kid. I'll bet most of you were, too. It's part of being human.
They're kids, they don't have fully developed personalities and empathy is something people have to learn. As is the ability to deal with people who are acting like assholes.
Where do you draw the line between normal asshole kid behavior and "bullying?" And where do you draw the line between "protecting kids from bullying" and "preventing kids from learning how to be adults and deal with assholes?"
If kids are protected from having to deal with obnoxious asshole behavior, what are they going to do once they get kicked out the door and into the real world? That would be a major shock for them if they never developed the skills to deal with rude, obnoxious jerks in real life.
CoGirl303
01-24-2018, 12:00
I don't really want to hurt anyone. But I can only be pushed so far before fighting back.
People who have never been bullied truly don't do know the emotional and psychological wreckage one endures from being bullied.
Grades suffer, building friendships is hard, trusting people is even harder, having an intimate relationship, marriage, lack of confidence and I could talk all day about the fallout of being bullied.
Some people can put up with a lot. I put up with a hell of a lot in my primary education years. But others just can't take it. Everyone's breaking point is different and how people react when they reach that point is different.
Now, I've grown up a lot and I'm assertive enough thatI don't put up with it anymore and if I see bullying, I intervene. I don't care about their age, gender, size or circumstances or consequences.
I despise bullies and I personally have no issue with it when a bully is dispatched to their eternal dirt nap. If you play stupid games, you deserve to win stupid prizes.
Don't be a bully and karma won't bite you in your buttocks. If you're a bully, you're a pos, plain and simple. You're a few notches below Murderers, rapists, child molestors and woman beaters.
I hold thieves with higher regard than I do bullies. Absolutely ZERO sympathy for ANY bully who gets what they deserve.
I do have sympathy for the innocent people and families who end up being casualties when someone lashes out in the instance of the topic of this post.
My 2 cents here.
My stepson is in middle school. Last year he was being bullied for a while (never told me) and blurted out one day "stop [whatever the dick was doing] or I'll jump off the balcony". It was all verbal bullying shit. Nothing physical.
A full day of "mandatory" mental evaluation by the state before he was allowed to return to school, followed by a 2 hour conference at school. Fucking horseshit. Luckily the state deemed my son's mental condition acceptable and he was "released" to me. I couldn't fucking believe it when the woman actually said, "I've decided to release him to you". I bit my tongue and left without saying another word.
What happened to the bully? He was told to stop by the counseler. No detention or anything at all. A few minutes in her office and off he went. AYFKM?
I made it very clear that attorneys will be involved if this kid harasses my son at school again and nothing is done by the staff. Yes, he reported it to them before hand a few different times. Nothing was done. So please don't tell me it doesn't happen. Maybe you are a teacher and would have taken some action - good on you. There aren't enough like that.
BTW, my son had no intention of jumping off the balcony. It was a spur of the moment outburst to get this douchebag kid to stop tormenting him. He's one of the happiest people I know. Even the state authorized mental health evaluator said he seemed like a happy kid.
Yeah, it's anecdotal, but I think the "look the other way" attitude is out there, big-time. Folks are afraid of being sued.
Also, I do think boys will be boys and told my son to never let anyone physically assault him and to whip their ass without a thought if they try. He might get in trouble at school for defending himself, but he'll get rewarded at home. I told the counseler that too and she was not happy. Too fucking bad.
Glad that you stood up to them! Intervention doesnt havent to be physical or violent. Taking priveleges away from bullies, isolation, detention, suspension and expellation should be proper actions to curb the behavior. Make these little jerks go to counseling, not the one being bullied.
But this is exactly what happens. A kid gets bullied, he/she reacts and now the kid has to get a mental evaluation, be put on ritalin, see a counselor...and nothing happens to the bullies and the bullying continues.
I had a day my 6th grade year, the teacher laughing at me while two girls across from me called me names, taunted me and laughed at me. I had already finished my classwork and was sitting there quietly minding my own business reading a John Grisham book. I asked the teacher to ask them to stop and she coldly sneered at me and said no. I said fine, turned around and leaned across my desk and I smacked carrot top right across her face. Turned back to the teacher, pointed at her and said next time it'll be you. I got 2 days in school detention (which I was thankful for because it got me away from those cretins) and the school wanted to put me in a learning disability class. My dad told them to go pound sand and if they tried he would pull me out. So I had to go to counseling and be put on ritalin which did absolutely nothing.
Those two girls didnt bother me much anymore, but the one I didnt hit harassed my mom at Wal-Mart about her body weight about 4 years later. I won't say what happened to her a few weeks later after it happened, but I never had another problem with her again after that.
The bullying continued from other students until 11th grade when we moved and I went to a different high school and I enjoyed a quiet and peaceful final two years in high school with no bullying, no confrontations or fights. People didn't know me there. It was so nice.
Does bullying occur? Absolutely...
Guess what, kids will be kids... Sorry, but until you start lobotomizing (chemically or physically) society during infancy, it's not going to change. *ETA* Before anyone loses their mind, I am not suggesting that lobotomizing infants is an option or should ever be considered.
Do teachers condone it? Nope. (Said example of "teacher sat there and laughed at me" would be an outlier, not the norm)
Are they allowed to intervene? Hell no... They can't do anything without fear of being sued.
Are the school principals/administrators allowed to intervene? LOL... C'mon... Nope. They don't want sued either.
So, I guess this goes back to whether it's "allowed" or whether it just occurs...
It just occurs...
This post shows how clueless you truly are in regards to the subject at hand.
If you think a kid emotionally and psychologically ruining another kid's well-being is just "kids being kids", you need to take a long look at your life and seek some education on the matter.
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BushMasterBoy
01-24-2018, 12:05
Maybe they should just lower the age of compulsory education in Kentucky. 18 should be 16, if a big boy like that doesn't like school. I know I hated school and learned what aholes students and staff are sometimes. Sad story all around, kids killing kids.
Grant H.
01-24-2018, 18:22
G-23 Paxilon Hydrochlorate (http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/G-23_Paxilon_Hydrochlorate)
O2
That's probably where it will have to go to "get rid" of bullying...
Being from Sci-Fi doesn't mean it can't/won't happen...
People who have never been bullied truly don't do know the emotional and psychological wreckage one endures from being bullied.
Find me one person that hasn't been bullied, ever... That would be your only data point for this statement, but it doesn't exist.
So, while this is a nice platitude that sounds well thought out and useful, it is neither of those things.
Now, I've grown up a lot and I'm assertive enough thatI don't put up with it anymore and if I see bullying, I intervene. I don't care about their age, gender, size or circumstances or consequences.
I despise bullies and I personally have no issue with it when a bully is dispatched to their eternal dirt nap. If you play stupid games, you deserve to win stupid prizes.
Don't be a bully and karma won't bite you in your buttocks. If you're a bully, you're a pos, plain and simple. You're a few notches below Murderers, rapists, child molestors and woman beaters.
I hold thieves with higher regard than I do bullies. Absolutely ZERO sympathy for ANY bully who gets what they deserve.
I do have sympathy for the innocent people and families who end up being casualties when someone lashes out in the instance of the topic of this post.
Congratulations. You are now bullying the "bullies" that you hate so much. You are using their tactics (name calling, belittling, condoning violence against them, etc) and don't seem to have a problem with it.
Those two girls didnt bother me much anymore, but the one I didnt hit harassed my mom at Wal-Mart about her body weight about 4 years later. I won't say what happened to her a few weeks later after it happened, but I never had another problem with her again after that.
I'll refer you to the "Congratulations" line above...
This post shows how clueless you truly are in regards to the subject at hand.
If you think a kid emotionally and psychologically ruining another kid's well-being is just "kids being kids", you need to take a long look at your life and seek some education on the matter.
Clueless on the subject huh? I didn't realize that you knew me well enough to be privy to all the occurrences of my life...
I get it. You hate bullies, and want to blame them for atrocities like what occurred in KY. That's clear as day from what you typed.
But, there is no way to know what actually set this kid off. Period.
CoGirl303
01-24-2018, 19:30
Congratulations. You are now bullying the "bullies" that you hate so much. You are using their tactics (name calling, belittling, condoning violence against them, etc) and don't seem to have a problem with it.
I get it. You hate bullies, and want to blame them for atrocities like what occurred in KY. That's clear as day from what you typed.
But, there is no way to know what actually set this kid off. Period.
You're right, I don't have a problem with it at all. The world has a long history of standing up to bullies and using force to do it with, so there's absolutely NOTHING wrong with that, in fact it's NOBLE if anything, the cause is NOBLE and it's JUSTIFIED. USA did it to Iraq when they invaded Kuwait. We did it for the Jews when the NAZI's exterminated 6 million of them, we should have done it to Russia when Stalin was slaughtering 20 million of his own people. I don't go picking on people to pick on them, harrass them, frighten them, intimidate them or make their life miserable to get joy out of it. I pick on those who pick on others to give them a taste of their medicine and curb the behavior or stop it and to stand up for those who are weaker.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cl6Vg3_VYAAYqEY.jpg
If I had my way, I'd make it a punishable crime for people who stand by and watch and do nothing when someone is being bullied or attacked. We all as humans have a moral obligation to stand up for those who can't stand up for themselves.
Colorado has a justifiable form of violent anti-bullying and it's called 3rd party defense (when it comes to the use of lethal force anyways.)
http://www.moffatcountysheriff.com/CoStatutes.pdf
You're right, we don't know what set him off. It could be bullying, it could be something else. I wasn't specifically speaking about this kid, was just speaking in general.
I wasn't the smallest kid in school. I was really fit with broad shoulders (competitive swimming since 4-years old can do that), but I was really shy and meek.
I was taught not to fight and to turn the other cheek. I was raised with the understanding "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never harm me." One of my parents directives was to never start a fight. It's not the Christian thing to do. If I was ever in a fight, the first questions I'd be asked were, "Who started it?" and "Who threw the first punch?" I got bullied, because I wouldn't respond to their taunts, so they felt they could push me around.
I never started a fight, but I ended every one that I was in. Ended up breaking my hand, twice. (Heads are hard, but they have a hole in the front of them that spews words making them such an attractive target.)
Yet, I never got aggressive toward anyone that wasn't trying to physically harm me or someone I cared about. I also never misdirected my anger and randomly shot my classmates at school.
Pecking orders are in the DNA of pretty much all animals, often determining the opportunity to reproduce for those at the top of the order. As much as we want to *think* that our society is "too advanced" for such behavior, it will happen.
Raising snowflakes, the everyone gets a trophy mentality, and that feelings are the the most important thing to human development/survival are misguided. Life is tough. Competition is good. Words are not actions.
ETA: COGIRL303, I simply can't fathom how you can relate "bullying" to the Nazi Holocaust.
CoGirl303
01-24-2018, 20:13
Edited
I'm in shock at how closely related our stories are. Such a small world truthfully.
I echo your last sentence. Cold-blooded murder is NEVER justifiable nor excusable, nor should it be condoned when it comes to retaliating for bullying however, I can understand why it came to happen. But with my experiences, I can't find it in myself to be sympathetic nor empathetic when a bully's life is taken.
What I can and always will sympathize and empathize with is the innocent people who die who had nothing to do with any of it at all and their families that are affected. That's what breaks my heart and I don't understand hurting people who did nothing to you.
ETA: COGIRL303, I simply can't fathom how you can relate "bullying" to the Nazi Holocaust.
In a sense that's exactly what it was but worse, it was the genocidal bullying of a group of humans because they were deemed not genetically pure. They would stop Jews in the street, ask for papers, shoot them on sight, rape them, gas them, burn them alive, beat them, shave their heads, they were screamed at, forced to work for free to carry out NAZI orders, the guards allowed their dogs to attack them. Read enough of the stories, listen to the podcasts on your iphone or android podcast app, and listen to the harrowing tales. It was the intimidation of those people by any means necessary. Most of us just view it from a different perspective and we don't think about it in these terms.
Holocaust = genocide, Hitler's "final solution". Grade school bullying doesn't compare.
theGinsue
01-24-2018, 20:36
Holocaust = genocide, Hitler's "final solution". Grade school bullying doesn't compare.
Perhaps it doesn't. Hitler elevated it to such a degree that it's difficult to see that the underlying roots of evil are the same.
CoGirl303
01-24-2018, 20:41
Holocaust = genocide, Hitler's "final solution". Grade school bullying doesn't compare.
not on the same level no. but it was bullying that then led to genocide.
Either way, both bullies and the NAZI's took/take pleasure in seeing others suffer mentally, emotionally, psychologically and physically. It's all about control and power over others.
Sadly we see it in society every single day. [emoji20] That's the bottom line.
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Every species member that isn't an alpha should register a complaint. They're regularly dominated and made to feel inferior. It's not fair. [Sarcasm2]
Find me one person that hasn't been bullied, ever... That would be your only data point for this statement, but it doesn't exist.
Prove to us that you can find one person that has never bullied anyone, and that may be YOUR data point...
ETA: Humans are imperfect, that is true. The primary difference is that we possess the "intelligence" to recognize that our innate, tribal/pack/"self-preserving" behaviors can produce abhorrent results.
wctriumph
01-25-2018, 09:18
I saw on the news this morning that the 15 year old will be prosecuted as an adult. Still no info on a motive.
Some interesting comments on bullying, I appreciate the continued conversation.
So far, I have not seen anyone going after the gun.
Great-Kazoo
01-25-2018, 09:39
I saw on the news this morning that the 15 year old will be prosecuted as an adult. Still no info on a motive.
Some interesting comments on bullying, I appreciate the continued conversation.
So far, I have not seen anyone going after the gun.
Look past the web sites you browse now.
Any and every news media outlet, web site and comments section .
Hell even yesterdays officers killing has slowly drifted in to It's the Guns fault, ease of access drivel.
I won't bore everyone with my tales of being bullied. Suffice it to say, as the short, scrawny, Jewish kid in elementary school, I got my share. The big difference is that 40 years ago, if I was bullied, and took a poke at the bully in self defense, I didn't get suspended or expelled or arrested. Too many times these days, school officials turn a blind eye to the bullying, or overreact to ANY dispute between students. Kids are gonna have disagreements. Learning how to settle them is how well adjusted adults are formed. So is learning that it hurts when the target of your bullying hits back.
http://youtu.be/XvijyBIgazE
I saw on the news this morning that the 15 year old will be prosecuted as an adult. Still no info on a motive.
Some interesting comments on bullying, I appreciate the continued conversation.
So far, I have not seen anyone going after the gun.
Well, he's still alive. When a person shoots someone, then dies, it's like he bailed on his accomplice, the gun.
If kids are protected from having to deal with obnoxious asshole behavior, what are they going to do once they get kicked out the door and into the real world?
Become Democrats and demand safe spaces.
Become Democrats and demand safe spaces.
I feel triggered by that comment.
I won't bore everyone with my tales of being bullied. Suffice it to say, as the short, scrawny, Jewish kid in elementary school, I got my share. The big difference is that 40 years ago, if I was bullied, and took a poke at the bully in self defense, I didn't get suspended or expelled or arrested. Too many times these days, school officials turn a blind eye to the bullying, or overreact to ANY dispute between students. Kids are gonna have disagreements. Learning how to settle them is how well adjusted adults are formed. So is learning that it hurts when the target of your bullying hits back.
http://youtu.be/XvijyBIgazE
I hope I didn't bore anyone with my stories of being bullied. But the real question is... do you think that ford cab is still laying around somewhere? I bet that would make a fine hot rod for Sundays in the summer.
I feel triggered by that comment.
#metoo. I think I need a coloring book. Remember back in the 90's when "#" symbol meant pound? Puts a whole new light on the #metoo stunt.
Remember back in the 90's when "#" symbol meant pound? Puts a whole new light on the #metoo stunt.
Yeah, I would tell people to #sand on forums before the whole 'hashtag' thing made it so confusing.
Most people (not all) have experienced bullying to some degree or another. Do a lot of schools turn a blind eye to it? I'm sure they do. Having a school administrator bring parents into their school and accuse their child of being a "bully" is a very touchy subject and there is no easy way to go about it. It's a hard truth that many parents refuse to accept. So many parents have the mindset their child is just a perfect little angel and there's no way their son/daughter is a bully. I had first hand experience of being part of a sit-down with a couple and a school administrator many years ago over a bullying incident between their son and mine. Their son was the bully and they refused to believe it, even though the teacher who witnessed it made a statement. My solution didn't go over very well. I received a formal "letter of trespass" from the school. One of my prouder moments as a father, but I digress.
There are documented cases where children have committed suicide over being bullied. I find this not just heartbreaking, but unacceptable. It is absolutely the responsibility of the parents, teachers, friends or anyone else who witnesses it to take measures to stop it.
That being said, unless anyone here happens to know this particular child and his situation specifically, there is absolutely no way to know if "bullying" played a part in his motive to carry out the shooting. If I had to take an educated guess, I bet there are some mental issues at hand which are not being talked about. If the Liberal loonies preached about better funding and resources to combat mental illness as much as they do about gun control, we would start working towards a solution to the real problems at hand in our society. Unfortunately for the Liberal mindset, they don't understand the first step in solving any real problem is admitting there is one in the first place.
At the end of the day, if America was truly concerned about stopping school/mass shootings, they would stop televising it and giving these murderers their 5 minutes of fame. Once the media is no longer reporting on these incidents and practically turning the cowardly killers into celebrities overnight, we would see a significant decline in these types of shootings.
CoGirl303
01-25-2018, 19:49
WRT "bullying" how is this defined?
Let's face it, kids can be little assholes sometimes. I probably was when I was a kid. I'll bet most of you were, too. It's part of being human.
They're kids, they don't have fully developed personalities and empathy is something people have to learn. As is the ability to deal with people who are acting like assholes.
Where do you draw the line between normal asshole kid behavior and "bullying?" And where do you draw the line between "protecting kids from bullying" and "preventing kids from learning how to be adults and deal with assholes?"
If kids are protected from having to deal with obnoxious asshole behavior, what are they going to do once they get kicked out the door and into the real world? That would be a major shock for them if they never developed the skills to deal with rude, obnoxious jerks in real life.
I get a little teasing now and then, kids will be kids. But when the bullying is every day, before, during and after class...that's where the line needs to be drawn. I'm not saying coddle every kid for every little thing. When it's continuous, unrelenting and it starts to trends toward becoming physical in nature or does become physical, then intervention is necessary.
Laughing at a kid for tripping, dropping his/her lunch tray, dropping books, little stuff like that? let it go.
When it gets to the point of following the kid around the school, jumping them in a hallway, in the locker room, on the bus, following them to and from school and beyond...that's where the line needs to be drawn.
On the other side of the coin. If a kid commits suicide he is a POS and is hurting more than just themselves. And the bully is going to be the least hurt. Their family and friends all suffer for the rest of their lives.
I have a hard time feeling sorry for those people being bullied about being a little heavy. The way I look at it is... they would rather kill themselves then loose a little weight. But even on the other side if its real bad bullying its just as wrong to commit suicide. I would rather live and know that pisses off my enemies because I won't go away. Killing myself would make them happy and I don't want to see them happy.
I would rather live and know that pisses off my enemies because I won't go away. Killing myself would make them happy and I don't want to see them happy.
Thats the stance I took. Don't give them the satisfaction.
On the other side of the coin. If a kid commits suicide he is a POS and is hurting more than just themselves. And the bully is going to be the least hurt. Their family and friends all suffer for the rest of their lives.
I have a hard time feeling sorry for those people being bullied about being a little heavy. The way I look at it is... they would rather kill themselves then loose a little weight. But even on the other side if its real bad bullying its just as wrong to commit suicide. I would rather live and know that pisses off my enemies because I won't go away. Killing myself would make them happy and I don't want to see them happy.
Is every person who kills themselves a POS, or just little kids?
Is every person who kills themselves a POS, or just little kids?
I guess I would say if they do it for selfish reasons they are a POS. If in 5 or 10 years no one is going to care then its selfish. Its a chickenshit way out. However, there are exceptions; like end of life sort of thing.ETA: Ok I have always look at death like the great mercy. If your oppressed there is hope that those people will eventually die. And with them their tyranny. However, say you were encased in cement all the way except for your nose to breath and your mouth to eat and your lowerhalf to shoot and scoot. Suicide would be a relief to such a living hell. Same as if you were burried alive or shot into space. Death would be a gift to release you from that pain. Not because someone thinks you're weak or gay or doesn't like your face or whatever. We as a country should be stronger than that.
Suicide for status or to evade justice is wrong. Even if say I had a friend that was a felon and killed people and had classified emails on their server. Even if they killed themselves they would die like they lived. A POS. They denied their victims justice for the life of crime.
Is every person who kills themselves a POS, or just little kids?
Give me an example where they wouldn't be a POS for punching their own ticket. Please.
Thats the stance I took. Don't give them the satisfaction.
I hope you love yourself enough to choose the right one should live. I want my ending like Conan. Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the women!
https://youtu.be/6PQ6335puOc
Great-Kazoo
01-25-2018, 23:39
Give me an example where they wouldn't be a POS for punching their own ticket. Please.
No in full charge of their mental capacity. Sure you have a hard time processing that.
Not everyone who kills them self is a POS. It's the people around them who, after the fact say. Oh we thought something was off, or wrong with X. Yet those same people did nothing to intervene while that (what's that word again) POS was alive.
No in full charge of their mental capacity. Sure you have a hard time processing that.
Not everyone who kills them self is a POS. It's the people around them who, after the fact say. Oh we thought something was off, or wrong with X. Yet those same people did nothing to intervene while that (what's that word again) POS was alive.
I don't get it, sure. I would like to see fewer suicides. The last suicide that I was effected by was my son's grandfather on his moms side. He was sick and dying and he has never met my son. I asked his mom to call him and see if he wanted to meet him sometime. She said no, because he didn't like me and she was mad at him for (brat) reasons. A week later they found his body and said he was like that for a few days. When it first happened I thought it might have done him some good to meet his only grandchild before he died. Maybe saved a life. These days I am starting to think that maybe it saved my life. He might have taken a shot at me then killed himself since he was already thinking about it. I have no proof to back that assumption up though. I did hear that he didn't like me from my baby's momma and she lies about stuff you really don't think needs a lie about. So I should take it with a grain of salt.
Maybe it worked out better this way and even if it didn't it can't be helped now. Its too late now. And I heard he was a POS even though he was a crippled old man when I first met him.
Old and infirm should have the right. But a guy of about 16 who shoots himself in the head, because his GF was dumping him is a POS. An drug addict that OD's and had a bunch of kids scattered to the wind is a POS. Other guy who humg himself in the closet for no apparent reason is a POS. These and many more where they were like poor me this will show them went out like are not worth the pitty.
A man should never out live his usefulness and be a burden if he doesn't want to.
To put it simply for you:
If you commit suicide, you are either self-serving, or selfish (we'll leave delusional and/or truly mentally disturbed out of it, due to the small fraction).
Either way, suicides typically leave a wide wake of grief, questions and disbelief behind. In a large majority of instances, nobody really knows why, note or not.
Suicide is stupid. Typically a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
Well even if someone is feeling suicidal and thinks that is the best way out or if they are being bullied they don't have the right to hurt others before they go. I don't care how bad it is. Although, I do think some of the attacks are staged or encouraged for no better reason than politics and power. And they are just evil.
hurley842002
01-26-2018, 16:44
Although, I do think some of the attacks are staged or encouraged for no better reason than politics and power.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180126/41fc7430cf0ef9a565838bb382fd70b3.jpg
To call someone a POS for attempting or committing suicide is pretty low. I can think of a lot of people who genuinely earn that title in many other forms....suicide not being one.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180126/41fc7430cf0ef9a565838bb382fd70b3.jpg
I thought I burned all those photos of me.
To call someone a POS for attempting or committing suicide is pretty low. I can think of a lot of people who genuinely earn that title in many other forms....suicide not being one.
If you've ever known someone that killed themselves for no other reason because they are POS. Then they died how they lived. YMMV.
Great-Kazoo
01-27-2018, 00:20
If you've ever known someone that killed themselves for no other reason because they are POS. Then they died how they lived. YMMV.
If you've ever known someone who did AND you didn't make an attempt to intervene or what ever one could to alter said outcome. Then you're / they're the POS.
Like the "aunt" who said she always felt something wasn't right at the turpin household, BUT failed to intervene.
This thread is getting complicated. There are all kinds of situations where you may be aware of something, yet do nothing. I simply don't have the time to babysit adults, or in other situations, refuse to ruin my life trying to intervene in a situation that is too far gone.
I can see that each response in this thread is from a completely different base of personal experience, for a completely different situation. I think the situations are too far apart and a happy theoretical compromise will not be reached. Good luck anyway.
If you've ever known someone who did AND you didn't make an attempt to intervene or what ever one could to alter said outcome. Then you're / they're the POS.
Like the "aunt" who said she always felt something wasn't right at the turpin household, BUT failed to intervene.
I've never turned my back on someone wanting help. But if it was just part of their game to get what they really wanted like drugs or something and don't really change or there was never a problem. Well they are soon found out and do that enough to enough people and you will be alone and no one will care if you off yourself.
The people that need the help and want it will get it. There shouldn't be a stigma attached to it either. That is the last thing they need. We all get bummed out sometimes. Instead of suicide I suggest a nice single malt scotch. Or Jack Daniels if its an on going problem with highs and lows like a custody battle with the aforementioned lying manipulating dragon lady. Save the scotch for the final orders to come in. And throw a party and invite everyone and tell them its a graduation from court or something. Don't tell them that you had to "steel yourself" and be heartless for a year to save a innocent life from becoming a wasted life. Its time to let it go. There was a temporary solution to a temporary problem I'd recommend.
ETA: Getting drunk wasn't the solution I meant to convey there. It was help with the lows. If you work the problem at the same time you are fighting the cause then there is hope for a final solution. Just don't crawl into a bottle. Save that for your enemies and competition.
I can see that each response in this thread is from a completely different base of personal experience, for a completely different situation. I think the situations are too far apart and a happy theoretical compromise will not be reached. Good luck anyway.
I thought we were just throwing around hypothetical situations based on our lives and to share the information we have? Don't leave us Irving I just don't know if we can go on. lol. If we loose the site philosopher does that mean we have exhaust all the roads this thought experiment can go down? Or that he is just saying screw us we are too far gone for help?
buffalobo
01-27-2018, 09:48
It means the thread is wandering off topic and loosing it's draw, becoming circular.
Everybody has forgotten this thread was about a school shooting in Kentucky.
Start a new thread to discuss suicide.
If you're unarmed, you are a victim
It means the thread is wandering off topic and loosing it's draw, becoming circular.
Everybody has forgotten this thread was about a school shooting in Kentucky.
Start a new thread to discuss suicide.
LIKE
Kentucky school shooting suspect did not target victims-local prosecutor (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/kentucky-school-shooting-suspect-did-not-target-victims-local-prosecutor/ar-BBIhDD8)
The teenaged boy who opened fire in a Kentucky high school this week, killing two students and wounding many others, appeared not to have targeted his victims and shot at random, a local prosecutor said on Friday.
Three security cameras captured the Tuesday morning incident in Marshall County High School's common area, Commonwealth's Attorney Mark Blankenship told Reuters in an email on Friday.
"The video clearly shows what happened," Blankenship said. "We have no information to indicate that he had any particular target in mind."
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