Shooting with corrective lenses

[buffalobo]

Been kicking this around in PW thread, expanded to GD for those outside the environs of Post Whoredom.

At recent check up with eye doc I gave up stalling/ignoring issue of aging eyes(presbyopia) and ordered a pair of readers/gen purpose and pair of safety glasses for shop work. Spent some time with doc discussing shooting with glasses and options for different scenarios.

I will be spending early spring figuring out limitations and solutions for issues that arise to try and be ready for a couple minions to start shooting competitions this summer and hopefully expanding my own competition schedule.

Neither contacts nor surgery are options for me at this time.

Post up your experiences.



If you're unarmed, you are a victim

[Blowby]

I'm ready to have my eyes checked again since they are always changing as we age and I use progressive lenses (Zeiss). Years ago I had some stylish frames that used smaller lenses (height wise) and noticed the area of focus was small, elevation wise. Since then I went with taller lenses and my up and down head movement diminished and getting behind my scope improved greatly. The options available for 3D scanning and vision alignment has improved over the years. You will pay the price but it's worth it. A link to the place I went with links to some videos. http://www.broomfieldoptometrist.com/the-3d-difference/technology/

This time around I will not have the automatic tinting added to the lens coatings. I found this to be a problem when shooting where the sun in front of you. The lenses darken and the reticle and target image through the scope is compromised. JMHO

[JohnnyEgo]

My experience is that I have worn glasses since I was 8 years old, which included military service and 3 gun, and still includes bowling pin and the occasional USPSA match. So I have only ever known shooting with prescription glasses. You'll be just fine. The logistics don't change that much since most competition shooting requires you to wear safety glasses, as does common sense. You'll adapt quick enough.

You can talk to your optometrist and ask them to calibrate the focal point of the prescription for the distance to your front sight blade of your handgun, which might give you a slight edge over general purpose glasses. But the real tip I can give you is don't buy your glasses from the shop attached to your optometrist's office. Like Diamonds, the margins on prescription glasses far exceed the actual production costs. Just give your prescription to China, where they can match the data with your finger prints and social security number, and in exchange you get $20 glasses instead of $400 glasses. I use Zenni Optical. Get a couple new pair every year after my eye exams. Nice to have spares in the truck and briefcase, and to not be worried if they get scratched or crushed.

[hatidua]

I have one "good" eye, one lousy eye, and astigmatism. I've spent a LOT on Rx eyewear in the last year but seeing clearly is priceless, so I paid it.

There's a myriad of individual experiences out there but in my case, I've gotten exactly what I've paid for: the cheap ones are not only inexpensive, they are also cheap. The best ones I have were expensive, no other way of putting it.

Think of it as rifle optics: you can put a Walmart scope on your rifle or you can bolt an S&B on it. Both will magnify your target.

[BushMasterBoy]

I always wear sunglasses when outside. With the high elevation we don't get full atmospheric protection of the coastal dwellers. UV blockers are a must.

[hatidua]

This time around I will not have the automatic tinting added to the lens coatings. I found this to be a problem when shooting where the sun in front of you. The lenses darken and the reticle and target image through the scope is compromised. JMHO

I had those once. Never again. They never got dark enough when I wanted them dark and never got light enough in low light. Great in theory, terrible in practice.

[JohnnyEgo]

I have one "good" eye, one lousy eye, and astigmatism. I've spent a LOT on Rx eyewear in the last year but seeing clearly is priceless, so I paid it.

There's a myriad of individual experiences out there but in my case, I've gotten exactly what I've paid for: the cheap ones are not only inexpensive, they are also cheap. The best ones I have were expensive, no other way of putting it.

Think of it as rifle optics: you can put a Walmart scope on your rifle or you can bolt an S&B on it. Both will magnify your target.

With respect, I don't know that your metaphor tracks. Is the guy running the Vortex Strike Eagle that much under-served compared to the guy with the Short Dot? Even though one is made in China and costs, give or take, 1/10th as much as a PM II, on a day-to-day basis, it accomplishes most of the same things as it's more expensive brother. The metaphor breaks down even more when one considers the Luxotica monopoly and it's attendant effect on eye glass pricing in the US. To a certain price point, the amount you spend on materials makes a real difference. Beyond that, you are paying for branding and hype.

I'd spend my money on a quality optometrist, make sure I knew my script, PID, and the specs I wanted in a pair of glasses, and then put those things together to get the best set of glasses for me at the intersection of price and feature. And, with the exception of my ridiculously expensive Wiley X sunglasses (I have 20/400 uncorrected; if my glasses were any thicker, I could see the future), that is what I have done.

Also, I love my PM-II.

[hatidua]

With respect, I don't know that your metaphor tracks. Is the guy running the Vortex Strike Eagle that much under-served compared to the guy with the Short Dot? Even though one is made in China and costs, give or take, 1/10th as much as a PM II, on a day-to-day basis, it accomplishes most of the same things as it's more expensive brother. The metaphor breaks down even more when one considers the Luxotica monopoly and it's attendant effect on eye glass pricing in the US. To a certain price point, the amount you spend on materials makes a real difference. Beyond that, you are paying for branding and hype.

I'd spend my money on a quality optometrist, make sure I knew my script, PID, and the specs I wanted in a pair of glasses, and then put those things together to get the best set of glasses for me at the intersection of price and feature. And, with the exception of my ridiculously expensive Wiley X sunglasses (I have 20/400 uncorrected; if my glasses were any thicker, I could see the future), that is what I have done.

Also, I love my PM-II.

The OP asked for individual experiences. I gave mine, see up there where it says "There's a myriad of individual experiences out there but in my case..."? -I should kick myself for logging in and replying, I thought I knew better by now.

Tell me, what do you recommend for progressive/glass/PL lenses? (all three ingredients and no HOYA please, their progressive glass PL formula is decades out of date and I have no interest in polycarbonate. Yes, there is highly impact resistant glass - not a lot of companies do it but I'm all ears as to your suggestion.)

[CoGirl303]

far-sighted in my left (20/40 uncorrected)

near-sighted in my right (20/400 uncorrected)

astigmatisms on both eyes, no depth perception (discovered that during my FAA Flight physical for the Army at Ft. Leonardwood, MO).

I am right hand dominant, but left eye dominant.

I wear one contact in my right eye, it isnt needed on my left. I can shoot ambidextrously (as long as I have my contact lens in)though so that helps.

I shoot a little better using my left eye than I do my right. Figuring out which eye is more dominant will help you shoot better (assuming you haven't done so yet) once you get your eyeglasses situation figured out and you can also google how to do a dominant eye test.

As for the glasses, I have no experience with prescription glasses as I can't wear them because they give me horrible migraines.




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[O2HeN2]

I had better than 20/20 vision in both eyes up until I was about 40. Now I'm farsighted in both. Waaaay farsighted. Even distance needs correction now. :( No astigmatism thankfully. :)

From 40 on, day to day, I just used simple readers for many years until I found my self switching glasses constantly (distance correction, close correction). It came to a head in a class I took where I was flipping back and forth between a screen at the front of the classroom to the laptop in front of me. After that class I got progressives, about at age 50.

So my experience, iron sights and handgun shooting only: With progressives, in a pinch I can roll my head back to get the correct correction to focus on the front sight. But when I'm practicing, I have weak reading classes I wear. Rather than correcting for the 18" or so reading distance, they correct at about 28" - front sight distance. When I bring the target back, however, it's a little fuzzy. :)

Just go to any Walmart, Sams or drugstore and try on a few reading glasses. But instead of trying to read the text they usually have for testing, hold your arm straight out in front of you and point your finger away, tipped up just enough to be able to see your fingernail. You should select glasses that bring your fingernail into sharp focus.

This of course will only work if you are farsighted with no astigmatism.

O2

[JohnnyEgo]

The OP asked for individual experiences. I gave mine, see up there where it says "There's a myriad of individual experiences out there but in my case..."? -I should kick myself for logging in and replying, I thought I knew better by now.

Tell me, what do you recommend for progressive/glass/PL lenses? (all three ingredients and no HOYA please, their progressive glass PL formula is decades out of date and I have no interest in polycarbonate. Yes, there is highly impact resistant glass - not a lot of companies do it but I'm all ears as to your suggestion.)


I don't have any recommendations for you at the moment, in part because I don't think anyone can grind glass or plastic as thin as your skin.

I disagree with your analogy, not your life experience or sense of self worth.

[Fentonite]

I've been meaning to check out this guy: http://tacticalrx.com/about.cfm

He's a vet, and specializes in vision correction for shooters. Presbyopia poses a special problem over just needing regular corrective lenses, because we really only need our near vision augmented, but not our distance vision, and if shooting, need our near vision corrected specifically for the distance to the front sight. I'm told that this guy makes bifocals with the main lens clear (no correction, you can still see the target) and the bifocal part to the specific needs of your eye-to-front sight focus. The cool part is that he puts the bifocal lens at the top of the main lense, instead of the bottom, so when looking at the target, it only takes a very slight nod forward to focus on the sights, instead of having to unnaturally lean your head back like you would with conventional bifocals.

ETA: he's a local guy, here's his local website: http://www.sportsoptical.com

[Aloha_Shooter]

I've had glasses since I was about 11 so have had to use corrective lenses ever since I've been shooting. I couldn't use contact lenses when I was younger so used regular prescription glasses when I was on the rifle team in high school. I really don't think it hampered my shooting in any way. Having said that, I would avoid using bifocal/trifocal/transition lenses in the glasses I was shooting with. You might consider a special pair of glasses where the lens for your dominant eye is optimized for your front sight and the other lens is optimized for far field (similar to what Fentonite is talking about) but this likely would NOT be your normal daily glasses.

[SAnd]

I would like to help out here but I have never understood iron sights. If I focus on the front sight the target and rear sight is so blurry they're useless for aiming. If I focus on the target the front and rear sights are both so blurred I'm not accurate. I'm not steady enough to shift focus between the three of them and be accurate. The only way I can be accurate with iron sights is to bench rest the gun so I have the time to repeatedly go back and forth between the sights and the target until everything is lined up. It's very frustrating at times.

I love scopes and red dot sights. You only have to focus on the target, the dot or reticle will be in focus automatically.

[CoGirl303]

I would like to help out here but I have never understood iron sights. If I focus on the front sight the target and rear sight is so blurry they're useless for aiming. If I focus on the target the front and rear sights are both so blurred I'm not accurate. I'm not steady enough to shift focus between the three of them and be accurate. The only way I can be accurate with iron sights is to bench rest the gun so I have the time to repeatedly go back and forth between the sights and the target until everything is lined up. It's very frustrating at times.

you look through the hole on the rear sight, get the tip of your front sight just a smidge below where you're aiming. Only thing that should ever be in focus is the front.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/mvician/95Sight_Alignment.jpg

[buffalobo]

I've been meaning to check out this guy: http://tacticalrx.com/about.cfm

He's a vet, and specializes in vision correction for shooters. Presbyopia poses a special problem over just needing regular corrective lenses, because we really only need our near vision augmented, but not our distance vision, and if shooting, need our near vision corrected specifically for the distance to the front sight. I'm told that this guy makes bifocals with the main lens clear (no correction, you can still see the target) and the bifocal part to the specific needs of your eye-to-front sight focus. The cool part is that he puts the bifocal lens at the top of the main lense, instead of the bottom, so when looking at the target, it only takes a very slight nod forward to focus on the sights, instead of having to unnaturally lean your head back like you would with conventional bifocals.

ETA: he's a local guy, here's his local website: http://www.sportsoptical.comHe is one of the recommendations eye doc gave and most likely route.

Will be trying a lot of technique/stance modifications first. The costs can climb very fast with custom ground lenses, I spent twice what I expected on the two pair I ordered.

My being a cheapskate doesn't help.

Another issue is I rarely spend all of my time at range engaged in just shooting. I also train minions, friends and family, I RO and do some MD/admin at matches.



If you're unarmed, you are a victim

[Great-Kazoo]

Everyone's eyes and way to fix them are not a cookie cutter solution. I cannot wear progress lens, also i cannot wear contacts, or have corrective surgery, well i can. But if i did that based on previous ocular damage, the only way to fix the issue would leave me with no depth perception. That's from both a 2nd and 3rd opinion.


Regarding optics
RDS are fine for some, until one gets past a certain yardage. Then for folks like me it's all (like a portion of my younger years) a blur.
My glass guy said bring my pistol in (unloaded) and he'd set me up with lens for shooting. Bifocals did the trick. YESMV

[MarkCO]

Everyone's eyes and way to fix them are not a cookie cutter solution. I cannot wear progress lens, also i cannot wear contacts, or have corrective surgery, well i can. But if i did that based on previous ocular damage, the only way to fix the issue would leave me with no depth perception. That's from both a 2nd and 3rd opinion.


Regarding optics
RDS are fine for some, until one gets past a certain yardage. Then for folks like me it's all (like a portion of my younger years) a blur.
My glass guy said bring my pistol in (unloaded) and he'd set me up with lens for shooting. Bifocals did the trick. YESMV

Yes to the first sentence.

I have been fighting with it for 10 years now. I tried contacts, corrective lens (yes, working with a good Optometrist and my guns in the office). I spoke at length with several about corrective surgery options as well. It just sucks, and you have to find what works for you and your particular degradation.

Shooting pistol is one solution, 50 to 100 yards with optics on 1x and irons for slugs and short range carbine is another. Shooting with optics is yet another. Cheap optics (like Strike Eagles that have bad parallax anyway) with cheap prescriptions glasses...yeah you can literally be several MOA off. I went to a 3Gun match 5 years ago or so and I could not hit any of the long targets and I had trashed the match. Sitting at dinner, James said...maybe it is the prescriptions glasses. Shot without them the next day and went 1 for 1 on the long targets. When I got home, a range session confirmed that I was getting enough distortion with some head positions to make me miss.

Now, I will change glasses based on the stage, and sometimes I even tell the RO I am going to change glasses mid-stage. So I will wear no correction for long range with the scope focused (I still have enough) and wear prescription for shooting Irons. It is a constant battle and it takes a good portion of my practice to mess with it. Have you ever noticed how many of the truly top tier shooters stopped shooting Nationally in their late 40s to early 50s? Jerry and Voight are really the only two that powered through into their late 50s and 60s, (with their pistol only scores dropping and only shooting Open) which, in all honesty is why those two will be remembered more than the Enos, Shaw, Barnhardt, etc.

[MAP]

I need 2.25 readers for up close but still have pretty good distance vision. Shooting red dots on rifle and pistols I only use clear safety glasses. Seeing open sights is a problem for me. I have custom made shooting glasses with a 1.5 correction for my left eye (I'm left eye dominant) and a slight correction for my right eye. This allows me to see the front sight "good enough" while still being able to identify targets. Using the same glass with a red dot creates problems seeing a clear dot. This best advise I received on prescription shooting glasses was from http://www.sportglasses.com. They made glasses for Rob Lathem and other professional shooters. It is well worth your time to given them a call.

Good luck,

Mike