View Full Version : I think I've been snookered. Learn from my mistakes!
Anybody that knows me has a pretty good idea about how I feel about first responders. When I got a call from the American Police Officers Alliance, I was surprised and a little uneasy with the tone of the caller. I didn't recognize the number, but that's not anything new in my line of business. I agreed to donate some money, but got a sinking feeling as the caller continued to repeat "You agree to donate $X." They've got my voice recorded, I'm sure of it. They started pressuring me about a credit card, and I regained my senses and stated "No way. You send me literature."
A week later, I got an invoice in the mail. I did a little research, and realized one of my mistakes was the name- I thought I was donating to the American Police and Sheriffs Association. Instead, this American Police Officers Alliance is some political association out of Virginia. As they had recorded my voice agreeing to donate, I sent a money order for the amount i'd agreed to send ($35.00. I know, I know.) and figured that would be the end of it. I got a call last night from someone from the Alliance, stating they never got my money order. Now I can't find the receipt, and it would cost even more to track the damn thing, as I got the Money Order at King Soopers.
I know that cases taken to court for people agreeing to donate to charities are starting to be more frequent. I don't know about political groups. Either way, it's a bit of a mess now.
And I know, I know. I should have been much more aware when answering the phone. It's my fault that I fell for it.
But if I can save anyone else from this, I'll feel better. :) So be aware, and warn your spouses about this, too.
SouthPaw
02-19-2018, 11:46
Your avatar is very fitting for this thread..
I get spam called frequently where the caller has a southern accent wanting donations for some police organization. I tell them to send me their information in the mail and I'll look it over. I've never received anything from any of them. I think it's a total scam where they're looking to grab quick money over the phone and I doubt any of it goes to help officers or their families.
Your avatar is very fitting for this thread..
LOL! I know, right? One nonstop "D'OH!"
I get spam called frequently where the caller has a southern accent wanting donations for some police organization. I tell them to send me their information in the mail and I'll look it over. I've never received anything from any of them. I think it's a total scam where they're looking to grab quick money over the phone and I doubt any of it goes to help officers or their families.
I think that is the part that's bothering me the most. Dammit.
Martinjmpr
02-19-2018, 11:54
Wait, I'm not understanding how they can take you to court over this.
First, If you sent the money, you sent it. It's not your responsibility to make sure it gets there.
Second, A contract requires offer + acceptance + consideration (i.e something of value) to both parties.
Since you get nothing out of this transaction it's not legally a contract so what can they sue for?
My thought is tell them to pound sand and block their number.
I get spam called frequently where the caller has a southern accent wanting donations for some police organization. I tell them to send me their information in the mail and I'll look it over. I've never received anything from any of them. I think it's a total scam where they're looking to grab quick money over the phone and I doubt any of it goes to help officers or their families.
This exactly. I get calls from aNew York number and a very aggressive guy. Recently started blocking numbers (I'm a slow learner) after answering probably over one hundred spam calls over the past year.
Didn't read the whole thread until now. I'd be zero worried about any legal stuff from them. Threatening fake legal action is like the #1 rule in the scammer play book. Think of it the same as the IRS calls. Just to scare people into coughing up money.
Wait, I'm not understanding how they can take you to court over this.
First, If you sent the money, you sent it. It's not your responsibility to make sure it gets there.
Second, A contract requires offer + acceptance + consideration (i.e something of value) to both parties.
Since you get nothing out of this transaction it's not legally a contract so what can they sue for?
My thought is tell them to pound sand and block their number.
Thus far, they've contacted me from two different numbers.
I've been looking it up online (YMMV) and although there are some points about the legality of charitable pledges, I can't find anything about binding enforcement for pledges to political groups. That may be a loophole!
But my main point is, don't put yourself in this situation like I did. Be extra vigilant!
Didn't read the whole thread until now. I'd be zero worried about any legal stuff from them. Threatening fake legal action is like the #1 rule in the scammer play book. Think of it the same as the IRS calls. Just to scare people into coughing up money.
I'm starting to realize that I shouldn't be too worried. :)
I'm most agry at myself for even playing along with it, thinking it was the other Association. And I know they have my voice recorded, and I'm furious about that.
BushMasterBoy
02-19-2018, 12:08
"Dear BushMasterBoy,
I wanted to personally thank you for your contribution to the Colorado Police Officers Foundation to support the family of Adams County Sheriff’s Deputy Heath Gumm.
I am pleased to tell you that because of your support, and the support of hundreds of generous Americans across the country, the Foundation presented the Gumm family a check for $91,938.79."
I received the above email last week. I don't usually donate to charities, but this one seemed legit. I used the eBay payment service. The named is changed to hide the donors name. I found the charity on the webz. Anybody calling on the telephone usually gets an ass chewing.
Martinjmpr
02-19-2018, 12:17
Thus far, they've contacted me from two different numbers.
I've been looking it up online (YMMV) and although there are some points about the legality of charitable pledges, I can't find anything about binding enforcement for pledges to political groups. That may be a loophole!
But my main point is, don't put yourself in this situation like I did. Be extra vigilant!
Did you get anything of value? If not then there wasn't a contract. Period.
Trivia fact of the day: In Old English law there was a thing called a "promise under seal." If you made a promise to someone and had the document notarized with a seal, it was enforceable in the law courts of the day, even if you got nothing out of the deal.
But that's not a "thing" in modern American law. Other than a will I can't think of any kind of "promise" that is legally enforceable without some kind of contract being in existence.
DenverGP
02-19-2018, 12:19
I'm most agry at myself for even playing along with it, thinking it was the other Association. And I know they have my voice recorded, and I'm furious about that.
Just write it off as a lesson learned, and some good karma from you that'll come back when you need it most.
Martinjmpr
02-19-2018, 12:21
Well, you paid $35 to learn a lesson.
I constantly get calls (usually from CU, where I graduated in 2000.) As soon as it's apparent what they are I hang up and block the number.
68Charger
02-19-2018, 12:21
"I DON'T donate to any organization using phone solicitations. Period. Have a nice day." (use the contraction, so there is no affirmative they could derive by cutting out the "NOT"
That's my canned response, and doesn't usually need any other explanation... they usually hang up or thank me then hang up.
Martinjmpr
02-19-2018, 12:43
After further review online I have found that in some cases "pledges" are enforceable in court. However, in this case it's doubtful that any legitimate organization would try to take you to court to enforce a $35 pledge since it would cost them way more than that to do so. My guess is that they got the money but they're trying to shake you down for more.
In the future, I would advise anyone making any kind of charitable contribution to always pay with a personal check or a credit card - something where you can verify that the payment was received. In this case, the OP has no way of proving his payment was received unless he kept his copy of the money order receipt. It's also valuable if you want to claim a tax deduction.
Martinjmpr
02-19-2018, 12:46
A week later, I got an invoice in the mail. I did a little research, and realized one of my mistakes was the name- I thought I was donating to the American Police and Sheriffs Association. Instead, this American Police Officers Alliance is some political association out of Virginia. As they had recorded my voice agreeing to donate,
This is another point where you could have gotten out of your promise - instead of sending in the money order you could send them a letter explaining that they misrepresented the name and type of organization and that you don't donate to organizations like theirs.
Wish I'd seen this thread sooner. I made the mistake of donating to a police organization once and now get calls from different numbers about once a week asking for more money. I don't know if they were legit or not, but at this point it's so annoying I don't really care either way. I just want them to leave me alone.
I find it odd that they have a refund policy...
https://americanpoliceofficersalliance.com/privacy-policy/
The American Police Officers Alliance offers refunds on donations or purchases in accordance with applicable laws and regulations. Contact the organization via e-mail or postal mail address to request a refund.
You guys are weird. If I get a call from any number that doesn’t show up in my contacts I just let it go to voicemail. I bet I haven’t been solicited for anything over the phone in ten years or more.
You guys are weird. If I get a call from any number that doesn’t show up in my contacts I just let it go to voicemail. I bet I haven’t been solicited for anything over the phone in ten years or more.
Show me a guy who can ignore calls from numbers he doesn't know, and I'll show you a guy who doesn't work from his phone.
I've gotten somewhat decent at detecting spam calls (because they mostly don't leave messages), but it's difficult because I travel all over the state. I NEVER answer any number from a prefix the same as mine. If I go work in an area that is a 970 or 719 area code, I will get spam calls from those area codes for a few days/weeks after I've been there. Very annoying.
Recently, I've been having voice mails left though. If the voice mail is 3-4 minutes long, it has been spam every single time.
Show me a guy who can ignore calls from numbers he doesn't know, and I'll show you a guy who doesn't work from his phone.
Surprisingly I do use my phone for work more than you would think. My method of ignoring anyone who isn’t in my contacts still works well. If it’s a legitimate business related call they can leave a message and I’ll call them back.
I guess it depends on how much you work directly with customers. I like to appear "present" for my customers, but a quick call back, when they leave a message, is about as good.
You guys are weird. If I get a call from any number that doesn’t show up in my contacts I just let it go to voicemail. I bet I haven’t been solicited for anything over the phone in ten years or more.
I have an app on my phone that downloads the FCC Spam phone number list and sends all of those to VM, before it even rings the phone. Plus, I can add any number to the list.
KevDen2005
02-19-2018, 14:26
Didn't read the whole thread until now. I'd be zero worried about any legal stuff from them. Threatening fake legal action is like the #1 rule in the scammer play book. Think of it the same as the IRS calls. Just to scare people into coughing up money.
I wouldn't be too worried. If you want to donate hit up some LEOs and they will either send you to a reputable organization or send you to someone who knows about reputable organizations. The organizations we support or support us don't do that type of soliciting generally.
I regularly donate to local PD's all over the midwest, by speeding.
KevDen2005
02-19-2018, 14:29
I regularly donate to local PD's all over the midwest, by speeding.
You donate to municipalities. PD's see very little of that revenue. But be glad that some of that money goes to victim's rights organizations. That's nice of you
Yeah, just like many charities. Most of the money goes to people who don't deserve it or need it, and the local PD can afford a box of Bic pens after my sizeable donation. Right? ;)
I thought there was something in Colorado law that any agreement made over the phone can be reversed within 3 days. Does that ring a bell to anyone?
KevDen2005
02-19-2018, 15:24
I thought there was something in Colorado law that any agreement made over the phone can be reversed within 3 days. Does that ring a bell to anyone?
Ring a bell, I see what you did there....LOL....
Wait, you're being serious
KevDen2005
02-19-2018, 15:26
Yeah, just like many charities. Most of the money goes to people who don't deserve it or need it, and the local PD can afford a box of Bic pens after my sizeable donation. Right? ;)
Two boxes, they bought the knock off brand.....from Harbor Freight....which is where we buy a lot of shit for our PD I have come to realize
SouthPaw
02-19-2018, 15:54
Show me a guy who can ignore calls from numbers he doesn't know, and I'll show you a guy who doesn't work from his phone.
I've gotten somewhat decent at detecting spam calls (because they mostly don't leave messages), but it's difficult because I travel all over the state. I NEVER answer any number from a prefix the same as mine. If I go work in an area that is a 970 or 719 area code, I will get spam calls from those area codes for a few days/weeks after I've been there. Very annoying.
Recently, I've been having voice mails left though. If the voice mail is 3-4 minutes long, it has been spam every single time.
I have two phones for this reason, personal and work. If there is a number calling my personal that I do not have saved, I do not answer.
CoGirl303
02-19-2018, 16:12
This exactly. I get calls from aNew York number and a very aggressive guy. Recently started blocking numbers (I'm a slow learner) after answering probably over one hundred spam calls over the past year.
easy solution is dont answer the phone if you dont know the number. if its important they will leave a number and message. If its a scammer they wont.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
StagLefty
02-19-2018, 16:31
"I DON'T donate to any organization using phone solicitations. Period. Have a nice day." (use the contraction, so there is no affirmative they could derive by cutting out the "NOT"
That's my canned response, and doesn't usually need any other explanation... they usually hang up or thank me then hang up.
Amen
Wait, you're being serious
I know it's a rarity for me, but sometimes that happens.
Sent from my electronic leash using Tapatalk
ETA: Found it!
https://www.stopfraudcolorado.gov/fraud-center/resource-listing/contract-cancellation-right-cancel-or-right-rescind
Pledges of cash or purchases made to benefit a non-profit organization may be rescinded within three business days of receiving written confirmation of the contribution from the charity.
easy solution is dont answer the phone if you dont know the number. if its important they will leave a number and message. If its a scammer they wont.
That's not how customer service works though.
Thanks for the input and advice, everyone! Excellent suggestions.
I must answer the phone when it rings, if at all possible. My potential clients rarely, if ever, leave messages. They just move on to the next in the phone book.
jreifsch80
02-19-2018, 17:37
I’ve had that call before, deep smoker voice guy that kind of sounds like the dad from 50 1st dates also the same “voice” has called at times asking for donations for some sort of wounded soldier fund
Anyone that asks, "is Melissa there?" Gets the red button pushed harder and faster than all the others.
Is there really a verbal contract over the phone???
Judge I said i would give to get them to stop hounding me...
Or how could they prove it was you without seeing you face to face? Could have talked to some ahole friend being an ass that answered your phone.
I lie on the phone all the time to these scammers and promise to send money.
I'm sorry you had to learn this way, even though every scintilla of your experience told you not to do it.
No one is immune to stupid behavior now and then. If I knew how to avoid mistakes, I would be a different person and probably very lonely.
Be safe.
BREATHER
02-20-2018, 13:10
I got a call last week, local area code, asking for Diane. Of course I said you have the wrong number, to which the caller replied, "maybe you can help me". He went on saying he was some police organization, to which I replied, shut the fuck up asshole, you asked for Diane now you want to hustle me. And hung up
Maybe you could have replaced "Debbie" with "Diane"?
NSFW
http://youtu.be/NpG0hqTt2go
Scanker19
02-20-2018, 13:53
Some of these are now starting to be masked numbers, where they will use a real phone number to mask their, usually a local one. But it's usually a one time thing and it's an actual number that belongs to a person that doesn't know it's being used.
KevDen2005
02-20-2018, 14:13
Some of these are now starting to be masked numbers, where they will use a real phone number to mask their, usually a local one. But it's usually a one time thing and it's an actual number that belongs to a person that doesn't know it's being used.
The nice thing with my last phone update seems to help screen unknown numbers that might be a scam by saying "Scam Likely" on the incoming line
The nice thing with my last phone update seems to help screen unknown numbers that might be a scam by saying "Scam Likely" on the incoming line
That's really a nice feature.
It's probably asking too much for my phone to run an app like that- my ancient Note is circling the drain.
Show me a guy who can ignore calls from numbers he doesn't know, and I'll show you a guy who doesn't work from his phone.
I've gotten somewhat decent at detecting spam calls (because they mostly don't leave messages), but it's difficult because I travel all over the state. I NEVER answer any number from a prefix the same as mine. If I go work in an area that is a 970 or 719 area code, I will get spam calls from those area codes for a few days/weeks after I've been there. Very annoying.
Recently, I've been having voice mails left though. If the voice mail is 3-4 minutes long, it has been spam every single time.
I use an app to block my cell area/prefix. Straight to voicemail (just in case it's legit).
I will answer on rare occasions if I recognize the area code as coming from a client or another company location and am expecting a call or working with someone in that area code that might not have made it into my contacts yet - typically as yet unknown team members. However, my answer is always simply, "Hello?" We go from there. If they announce themselves professionally, we're good. If they ask for me by name, I politely respond with "Who is calling?" Never "Yes" or any affirmative reply. If they're legit, I explain my trepidation to divulge details. "Sorry, but there's too many scam calls going around."
The big one going around for a while was, "Can you hear me now?" They record you saying yes and splice it in with some BS charges. They've either already got data on you, including CC info, or simply your e-mail and you start getting demands.
I also stopped using my name and company name in my voicemail greeting. It's clear, simple, and professional. "Hi, you've reached (my number). I'm sorry I can't take you call right now, but please leave your name and a number I can reach you at, and I will return your call as soon as possible. If I go on PTO, it's the same basic greeting but I say I'm out of the office on PTO.
For personal e-mail, no out of office replies. For work e-mail, it's OOO for internal and only my contacts. First contact I make with any new clients, they get added so I know who it is.
If anyone wants to hear a fine example of the IRS call that's going to have the police come and take me into custody seize all my assets, let me know and I'll put it up on a share site for all to enjoy. You can call them @202-866-9076 if you want to speak to them. Get a burner Google voice number and have fun with them.
Some of these are now starting to be masked numbers, where they will use a real phone number to mask their, usually a local one. But it's usually a one time thing and it's an actual number that belongs to a person that doesn't know it's being used.
Yes. They're spoofing legit numbers.
I have two friend's that have called the number back and the guy on the other end is like, "WTF are you? I didn't call you?" LOL
Thing for me is that I have an old AT&T mobile number from my 1992 Motorola bag phone that's been ported to VZW and I don't know one single person that has that same area/prefix. I'm sure the carriers still reissue those when they come up available. On the off chance it's legit, the app on my phone sends them straight to my very generic voicemail.
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