View Full Version : 3 Colorado kids arrested for school shooter threats
CoGirl303
02-22-2018, 12:33
Anyone who makes threats of this nature or similar should have a permanent flag placed on their NICS file and be permanently barred from ever purchasing a firearm. No negotiation, no pass go, no appeal, no well I was just kidding.
There should be zero tolerance for this nonsense.
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2018/02/21/colorado-students-arrested-threats/
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My kids school got placed on lockdown yesterday because of this crap. I agree, they should lose all kinds of privileges as well as jail time.
ETA: this was not the same threat from yesterday, still not cool
I'm not a fan of "zero tolerance" penalties since stupidity often follows. Like a kid being kicked out of school when their mom put a plastic knife in their lunch to spread something on bread due to a zero tolerance policy on knives in school.
There are also issues where kids do stupid things in their youth, including myself, that I wouldn't want to be held to as an adult.
There should be penalties for these threats, but I'm not in agreement with what you propose.
CoGirl303
02-22-2018, 12:48
I'm not a fan of "zero tolerance" penalties since stupidity often follows. Like a kid being kicked out of school when their mom put a plastic knife in their lunch to spread something on bread due to a zero tolerance policy on knives in school.
There are also issues where kids do stupid things in their youth, including myself, that I wouldn't want to be held to as an adult.
this isnt a kid stealing a candy bar or getting into minor mischief...this is a youth making a threat to shoot up people in a school. This type of thing shouldn't be overlooked because of their age.
It takes a mentally effed up person to convey a threat like this. These arent the type of people who should EVER be allowed to purchase, own, possess or handle firearms. PERIOD.
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You have not swayed my position.
CoGirl303
02-22-2018, 13:19
we'll just have to agree to disagree then.
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Anyone who makes threats of this nature or similar should have a permanent flag placed on their NICS file and be permanently barred from ever purchasing a firearm. No negotiation, no pass go, no appeal, no well I was just kidding.
There should be zero tolerance for this nonsense.
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2018/02/21/colorado-students-arrested-threats/
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For someone prone to making flippant, legally questionable statements, you sure seem to be into zero tolerance/strict justice.
Make no mistake, all it would take is for someone who doesn't like you to spoof your info, or otherwise gain access to an account of yours, and your guillotine of justice would come crashing down on your life's neck in such a scenario.
Ya need to slow your roll.
68Charger
02-22-2018, 13:22
this isnt a kid stealing a candy bar or getting into minor mischief...this is a youth making a threat to shoot up people in a school. This type of thing shouldn't be overlooked because of their age.
It takes a mentally effed up person to convey a threat like this. These arent the type of people who should EVER be allowed to purchase, own, possess or handle firearms. PERIOD.
But they should be allowed to drive a truck (when they're of age)?
How about lighters and gasoline? (most of the top 10 mass murders in modern US history are arson, bombs or airplane crashes)
how about fertilizer or other materials that can make a bomb
You're falling into the same trap that guns are the problem...
If they're a danger to society, they shouldn't be in society- or have very limited access in society (ankle GPS?)... the sticky wicket is how do you determine that, and how do you determine when they're not?
hurley842002
02-22-2018, 13:28
You have not swayed my position.As apparent in other threads, she is on the upper end of the emotional spectrum, and rarely offers thought out rational solutions, so the chances of being swayed are likely slim. It is likely there isn't much real world experience to support the emotionally charged posts in question.
I think anyone who has ever made a late payment, on anything, anywhere, should have a 0 credit score forever.
I think anyone who has ever had a moving violation should lose their license forever.
hurley842002
02-22-2018, 13:38
I think anyone who has ever made a late payment, on anything, anywhere, should have a 0 credit score forever.
I think anyone who has ever had a moving violation should lose their license forever.I agree, because NO MERCY!!!
I think anyone who has ever had a moving violation should lose their license forever.
Because Irv doesn't like driving, anyway. With his track record, he'd be in solitary up in Florence. [Flower]
CoGirl303
02-22-2018, 13:43
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/crime/judge-keeps-grand-junction-teen-accused-of-threat-in-custody
Judge is refusing to release one of the kids due to other priors and uncertainty of his mental state.
I think anyone who has ever made a late payment, on anything, anywhere, should have a 0 credit score forever.
I think anyone who has ever had a moving violation should lose their license forever.
you're equating not paying your bills on time to someone making threats to shoot people up at a school?
are you kidding me?
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Zundfolge
02-22-2018, 13:56
Y'all really going to force me into the same camp as Irving here? :p
Legitimate threats are one thing, but who decides what is a legitimate threat and what is some kid blowing off steam or exercising their creativity?
When I was a kid I wrote a lot of fiction. I wrote many short stories about revenge and offing bullies and what-not. Many of which took place in my school. In this current moral panic/witch hunt mentality would it be right for me to have my second amendment rights permanently stripped from me? And do you think stripping my rights from me and treating me like a pariah would decrease or increase my motivation to lash out at the world?
Because Irv doesn't like driving, anyway. With his track record, he'd be in solitary up in Florence. [Flower]
That is the literal truth.
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/crime/judge-keeps-grand-junction-teen-accused-of-threat-in-custody
Judge is refusing to release one of the kids due to other priors and uncertainty of his mental state.
you're equating not paying your bills on time to someone making threats to shoot people up at a school?
are you kidding me?
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Y'all really going to force me into the same camp as Irving here? :p
Legitimate threats are one thing, but who decides what is a legitimate threat and what is some kid blowing off steam or exercising their creativity?
When I was a kid I wrote a lot of fiction. I wrote many short stories about revenge and offing bullies and what-not. Many of which took place in my school. In this current moral panic/witch hunt mentality would it be right for me to have my second amendment rights permanently stripped from me? And do you think stripping my rights from me and treating me like a pariah would decrease or increase my motivation to lash out at the world?
And there you have it. Looks like our annual agreement came early this year.
CoGirl303
02-22-2018, 14:21
You're falling into the same trap that guns are the problem...
If they're a danger to society, they shouldn't be in society- or have very limited access in society (ankle GPS?)... the sticky wicket is how do you determine that, and how do you determine when they're not?
no, not this in case I'm not. My proposal is to punish the kid and making threats to murder people is legitimate grounds to revoke his/her gun rights on that basis. The kid being the problem.
I agree on your second part, they shouldnt be allowed in society.
I think can pretty much figure it out by the context of what was said and how it was said.
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What should the punishment be then? Someone just yesterday made a threat to shoot up the school where (or near, didn't actually see the threat) my son goes. His school had to go on lockdown either way. Getting the phone call from the school about that is not a good feeling. Given recent events I think this kind of threat shouldn't be taken lightly. You threaten to shoot my child and I get pretty worried and then eventually really pissed off. It's not exactly the same as pointing a gun at someone but I feel like it's pretty close.
CoGirl303
02-22-2018, 14:29
For someone prone to making flippant, legally questionable statements, you sure seem to be into zero tolerance/strict justice.
Make no mistake, all it would take is for someone who doesn't like you to spoof your info, or otherwise gain access to an account of yours, and your guillotine of justice would come crashing down on your life's neck in such a scenario.
Ya need to slow your roll.
If I was dumb enough to break the laws, then I'd deserve it. I have 31 years of being a responsible firearms owner behind me and I don't break the law.
I'm not backing down from my stance either. Little psychopaths that threaten to murder people by shooting up a school should NOT ever be allowed near a gun. I dont care what age they are.
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What should the punishment be then? Someone just yesterday made a threat to shoot up the school where (or near, didn't actually see the threat) my son goes. His school had to go on lockdown either way. Getting the phone call from the school about that is not a good feeling. Given recent events I think this kind of threat shouldn't be taken lightly. You threaten to shoot my child and I get pretty worried and then eventually really pissed off. It's not exactly the same as pointing a gun at someone but I feel like it's pretty close.
Charge them on making the threat. They have their day in court and you still have due process, not some inept 'zero tolerance policy'.
If I was dumb enough to break the laws, then I'd deserve it. I have 31 years of being a responsible firearms owner behind me and I don't break the law.
I'm not backing down from my stance either. Little psychopaths that threaten to murder people by shooting up a school should NOT ever be allowed near a gun. I dont care what age they are.
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You're not understanding the point. It doesn't matter if you break the law or not. It only matters if you appear to have done so, or someone else legitimately finds a way to make it such that "you" (that is, your online persona as traceable back to you) made a specific threat.
In a culture and climate of zero tolerance, one can be a quick victim by appearing to be a perpetrator. Imagine SWATing, but shifted into mere threats instead of "CoGirl303 totes has a hostage". "CoGirl303 confided to me that she intends to shoot up everyone at Acme Trucking cus they didn't give her the route she wanted" -- di dyou off handedly ever mention to anyone that you didn't get a preferred route? Well, that's info that connects you legitimately to a statement that is of itself false.
That S&W Sport w/ Vortex 1-6 will look sweet in an evidence locker, right? Cus you wanted a zero tolerance, fear-based culture?
Think about it, Xena.
I'm not talking about zero tolerance at all. I'm saying that if it's proven that someone did this then there should be a hefty punishment.
You're not understanding the point. It doesn't matter if you break the law or not. It only matters if you appear to have done so, or someone else legitimately finds a way to make it such that "you" (that is, your online persona as traceable back to you) made a specific threat.
In a culture and climate of zero tolerance, one can be a quick victim by appearing to be a perpetrator. Imagine SWATing, but shifted into mere threats instead of "CoGirl303 totes has a hostage". "CoGirl303 confided to me that she intends to shoot up everyone at Acme Trucking cus they didn't give her the route she wanted" -- di dyou off handedly ever mention to anyone that you didn't get a preferred route? Well, that's info that connects you legitimately to a statement that is of itself false.
That S&W Sport w/ Vortex 1-6 will look sweet in an evidence locker, right? Cus you wanted a zero tolerance, fear-based culture?
Think about it, Xena.
Just wait until the Donationz for Copz organization jumps into the mix with a recording of your voice saying, "Of course I do!" to the question of "Do you intend to be an over the road sniper?" When they really asked you, "This is the Coinz for da Copz Foundation, you love da copz right?"
Just wait until the Donationz for Copz organization jumps into the mix with a recording of your voice saying, "Of course I do!" to the question of "Do you intend to be an over the road sniper?" When they really asked you, "This is the Coinz for da Copz Foundation, you love da copz right?"
https://ci.memecdn.com/256219_t.jpg
Zundfolge
02-22-2018, 14:54
And there you have it. Looks like our annual agreement came early this year.
Well it was nice while it lasted :)
BushMasterBoy
02-22-2018, 14:55
I just read the DNA tests proved two wolves ate a teacher in Alaska. Could you imagine a pack of 20?
https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/article/dna-samples-confirm-wolves-killed-southwest-alaska-teacher/2011/12/06/
Well it was nice while it lasted :)
[Beer]
https://ci.memecdn.com/256219_t.jpg
You're killin me smalls.
[LOL]
CoGirl303
02-22-2018, 15:29
You're not understanding the point. It doesn't matter if you break the law or not. It only matters if you appear to have done so, or someone else legitimately finds a way to make it such that "you" (that is, your online persona as traceable back to you) made a specific threat.
In a culture and climate of zero tolerance, one can be a quick victim by appearing to be a perpetrator. Imagine SWATing, but shifted into mere threats instead of "CoGirl303 totes has a hostage". "CoGirl303 confided to me that she intends to shoot up everyone at Acme Trucking cus they didn't give her the route she wanted" -- di dyou off handedly ever mention to anyone that you didn't get a preferred route? Well, that's info that connects you legitimately to a statement that is of itself false.
That S&W Sport w/ Vortex 1-6 will look sweet in an evidence locker, right? Cus you wanted a zero tolerance, fear-based culture?
Think about it, Xena.
Ok, I think you're missing my point, so I'll rephrase.
If they make threats and are found guilty, then their NICS profile should be permanently flagged and their gun rights revoked.
Is that better?
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newracer
02-22-2018, 15:48
I wonder why they didn't include this one?
https://www.coloradoan.com/story/news/2018/02/09/fossil-ridge-high-school-student-removed-after-allegedly-making-threat-against-school/324097002/
But they should be allowed to drive a truck (when they're of age)?
How about lighters and gasoline? (most of the top 10 mass murders in modern US history are arson, bombs or airplane crashes)
how about fertilizer or other materials that can make a bomb
You're falling into the same trap that guns are the problem...
If they're a danger to society, they shouldn't be in society- or have very limited access in society (ankle GPS?)... the sticky wicket is how do you determine that, and how do you determine when they're not?
LIKE
Ok, I think you're missing my point, so I'll rephrase.
If they make threats and are found guilty, then their NICS profile should be permanently flagged and their gun rights revoked.
Is that better?
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Since they're using their 1st Amendment rights in making the threat, why not take away their 1st Amendment right to free speech if found guilty?
Grant H.
02-22-2018, 15:58
Since they're using their 1st Amendment rights in making the threat, why not take away their 1st Amendment right to free speech if found guilty?
Because that doesn't assuage the need for a "feel good" solution.
Bailey Guns
02-22-2018, 16:22
This thread is the perfect illustration of why this is such a complicated problem that will, in all likelihood, never be completely eliminated.
There's always a work-around if a person is motivated. Take away guns, they'll use something else. Put armed people in schools, they'll go somewhere else. And on and on.
Wait until society decides it's actually OK to arm some school staff...and then one of the armed staff goes off the deep end and shoots up the place. This problem/debate has a lot of potential to get worse before it gets better.
Wait until society decides it's actually OK to arm some school staff...and then one of the armed staff goes off the deep end and shoots up the place.
It's not like they're working in a high stress environment, like the Post Office.
....do you think stripping my rights from me and treating me like a pariah would decrease or increase my motivation to lash out at the world?
I think it'll increase for sure... from what i can tell/in my own experience, marginalizing or penalizing someone, particularly preemptively, will definitely antagonize someone.
This thread is the perfect illustration of why this is such a complicated problem that will, in all likelihood, never be completely eliminated.
There's always a work-around if a person is motivated. Take away guns, they'll use something else. Put armed people in schools, they'll go somewhere else. And on and on.
Wait until society decides it's actually OK to arm some school staff...and then one of the armed staff goes off the deep end and shoots up the place. This problem/debate has a lot of potential to get worse before it gets better.
Agreed. Society will need to accept a certain amount of, well, uncertainty, but it won't until it feels that minimum efforts have been taken first. The problem of course being that no one can agree on what efforts to take and one groups minimum effort is the nuclear option in the other groups opinion.
CoGirl303
02-22-2018, 19:13
I think it'll increase for sure... from what i can tell/in my own experience, marginalizing or penalizing someone, particularly preemptively, will definitely antagonize someone.
how is it preemptive if they made a threat to shoot up a school and kill people in it?
seems to me like that would be reactive targeting and not preemptive.
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jreifsch80
02-22-2018, 19:56
If people’s firearms rights get taken away for making death threats only (not saying there is or isn’t evidence of these kids conspiring to commit murder other than statements) then it will be a slippery slope for gun owners. If they purely made threatening comments but there is no evidence of them planning to murder people then suspend them from their school, put them in a 72 hour psychiatric evaluation and give them an ankle bracelet. would that be considered being “committed to a mental institution” which doesn’t that fail someone for a background check? It must have been more than a mere bratty statement if the kid is being held in custody still.
Or this one.
http://www.julesburgadvocate.com/ci_31687156
CoGirl303
02-22-2018, 20:20
If people’s firearms rights get taken away for making death threats only (not saying there is or isn’t evidence of these kids conspiring to commit murder other than statements) then it will be a slippery slope for gun owners. If they purely made threatening comments but there is no evidence of them planning to murder people then suspend them from their school, put them in a 72 hour psychiatric evaluation and give them an ankle bracelet. would that be considered being “committed to a mental institution” which doesn’t that fail someone for a background check? It must have been more than a mere bratty statement if the kid is being held in custody still.
And just what does giving a kid a three day vacation from his/her educational obligations really do? It doesnt address the problem. 3 days suspensions are a reward for kids.
Anyone making death threats to shoot up X-Location doesnt need to be around guns because they are not mentally stable if they're making those kinds of threats.
I'm not talking about "Well if you come break into my house, I'll blow you away" type stuff,
I'm talking about the "I'll come to work/school/x-location and kill everyone." or "I'll make Columbine look like a day at the fair" type threats.
As for the kid in custody, he has two prior juvenile offenses (not sure the nature because he is protected due to his age as a minor), so evidently there's some cause for concern from the Judge and kudos to him for seeing a pattern and not letting him out on Mom's request.
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jreifsch80
02-22-2018, 20:38
I think you’re missing what I was saying that if someone is committed to a mental health facility I believe that makes them fail background checks therefore no guns
edit: I don’t think a 72 hour Psychological evaluation would be considered a vacation
CoGirl303
02-22-2018, 20:46
yes, being mentally ajudicated does give reasonable cause for failing a BG Check. but for what duration? 3 weeks? 6 months? a year?
Kid makes said threat, then spoofs psych doc and says oh, it was all in good fun, didnt mean nothing by it.
Gets released, obtains a gun and then goes postal on a school. Then we're back to square one all over again.
So maybe if a kid makes those threats, he's dq'd for a 2 year period past the legal age to purchase. a "cool down" period if you will. Then perhaps a re-eval before final determination to restore rights or further revoke temporarily or indefinitely.
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jreifsch80
02-22-2018, 20:57
I guess I don’t know how long it might fail a person but I know that’s a question on background check forms so I assumed if you answer yes to that question then it’s an instant Fail
And just what does giving a kid a three day vacation from his/her educational obligations really do? It doesnt address the problem. 3 days suspensions are a reward for kids.
Anyone making death threats to shoot up X-Location doesnt need to be around guns because they are not mentally stable if they're making those kinds of threats.
I'm not talking about "Well if you come break into my house, I'll blow you away" type stuff,
I'm talking about the "I'll come to work/school/x-location and kill everyone." or "I'll make Columbine look like a day at the fair" type threats.
As for the kid in custody, he has two prior juvenile offenses (not sure the nature because he is protected due to his age as a minor), so evidently there's some cause for concern from the Judge and kudos to him for seeing a pattern and not letting him out on Mom's request.
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I think that you're failing to realize that kids don't think like adults. They don't behave like adults, either.
I have to wonder if at least one of those threats were called because some kid didn't study for a test and they really wanted to get out of the situation.
We're talking emotionally immature 14 and 15 year olds. Most kids are genuinely good; the abberations are the ones that actually carry through and plan things out. Much like most gun owners are law-abiding citizens, and the mass-shooters are making everyone else look bad. Do you see the comparison? So you would punish all kids for doing something stupid because they're not mature enough to realize the ramifications of their actions by doing something that gets them instant notoriety in their social circles (and yet, not nderstanding how they're going to get caught) and yet it was all puffery? Look, the idea is to punish kids with something equal to their transgression. You don't cut your nose off to spite your face, and that's what this would be doing.
Of course, I could be wrong. How many children do you have, and how do these annihilation-punishments work for you as a parent? How do these punishments affect your relationship with your kids?
CoGirl303
02-22-2018, 21:21
I think that you're failing to realize that kids don't think like adults. They don't behave like adults, either.
I have to wonder if at least one of those threats were called because some kid didn't study for a test and they really wanted to get out of the situation.
We're talking emotionally immature 14 and 15 year olds. Most kids are genuinely good; the abberations are the ones that actually carry through and plan things out. Much like most gun owners are law-abiding citizens, and the mass-shooters are making everyone else look bad. Do you see the comparison? So you would punish all kids for doing something stupid because they're not mature enough to realize the ramifications of their actions by doing something that gets them instant notoriety in their social circles (and yet, not nderstanding how they're going to get caught) and yet it was all puffery? Look, the idea is to punish kids with something equal to their transgression. You don't cut your nose off to spite your face, and that's what this would be doing.
Of course, I could be wrong. How many children do you have, and how do these annihilation-punishments work for you as a parent? How do these punishments affect your relationship with your kids?
I do see the difference and I have no kids.
However I was raised in a Joseph Stalin-esque household. Phone tapped, cable tv cutoff switch wired in my dads closet (to ensure I did my homework and didnt veg on the tube), if something of my parents was missing...my room was trashed. Randomly trashed looking for drugs and contraband. Didnt clean it right, trashed, clean it again. Have a foul mouth to the neighbors? red pepper in the mouth. wrote cusswords with lava rocks on the sidewalks, ass blistered with the belt. Mouth off to mom? Get popped in the mouth. Then when Dad gets home, get hit on the back of the legs with the back scratcher (that stings!). Same went for my brother.
But seriously, if you dont know at age 14, not to make threats to shoot up a school...you have serious issues. These types of things never even crossed my mind as a kid or teenager. My dad would have murdered me (figuratively speaking). I "knew" the ramifications of saying something like that. I feared the belting I would get for doing something like that. I feared the military school I was constantly threatened with being shipped off to. I feared losing my bike privileges, movie nights with friends and sleepover privileges.
Imo kids should know better nowadays more than we should have known in my day (early 90's) not to say stuff like that considering the political climate and how much more prevalent these shootings are becoming as opoosed to my day when you hardly ever heard about them.
I remember getting suspended for a fight in 8th grade where I got a desk drilled into my back and I stood up and fought the other student. We got 3 days out of school and my Dad took me to his work and I swept floors all day long at the shop in 100° September heat! ugh!
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Ok, I think you're missing my point, so I'll rephrase.
If they make threats and are found guilty, then their NICS profile should be permanently flagged and their gun rights revoked.
Is that better?
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The point is there are ways to spoof someone having said X thing.
Then, once you've entered the slippery slope of zero tolerance, it enters into a whole other slew of problems.
I know this because a friend of mine's "son" called in a bomb threat to his school. The kid who actually did it spoofed his info and the son never actually did such a thing. They were essentially SWATing the kid... once you enter zero-tolerance-ville, this will become a new vector of bullying and ruining some weird kid's life.
CoGirl303
02-22-2018, 21:31
The point is there are ways to spoof someone having said X thing.
Then, once you've entered the slippery slope of zero tolerance, it enters into a whole other slew of problems.
I know this because a friend of mine's "son" called in a bomb threat to his school. The kid who actually did it spoofed his info and the son never actually did such a thing. They were essentially SWATing the kid... once you enter zero-tolerance-ville, this will become a new vector of bullying and ruining some weird kid's life.
yeah, I wasnt talking "zero tolerance" like as in policy/rules like at school or work that have zero tolerance policies.
Probably should have worded it differently.
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Not sure of these cases and their details. But it feels like we are in the over reaction better safe than sorry phase of things, and these kids will get the book thrown at them.
As a parent you learn kids do stupid things, and the hormones hitting their boddies make then into little frackwits sometimes. If you react in the same manner they do, well you just reinforced that the bad behaviour is the right way to act. So when they yell remain calm, when they are mad remain cheery, when they want to shut you out be friendly. Couple of minutes and they come around.
So when these kids act like stupid kids we need to be adults, and act like adults. The punishment should be harsh and non capricious, and fit the crime. If this is stupid kids being stupid, punish their stupidity. If this is them being evil, isolate them and keep a firm eye on them.
Grant H.
02-22-2018, 21:36
But seriously, if you dont know at age 14, not to make threats to shoot up a school...you have serious issues. These types of things never even crossed my mind as a kid or teenager.
What of today's youth makes you think that they have been raised even close to the same way you were?
We, modern society, coddle mental illness, even to the point of giving it a pedestal of "bravery", we tell people they are brave for making the choice to be a tard, and even elevate the action of committing suicide to some "hallowed" act of desperation. The majority of teenagers today are so coddled and fondled that they can't handle someone presenting a different idea of how things should work... (Safe spaces, walk outs, etc...)
And you think they know better than to say something dumb? Perhaps get out of your little fantasy world and realize that today's society isn't a "Joseph Stalin-esque" society.
Teachers have next to no authority in the classroom.
Parents can be sent to jail for disciplining their children.
We have a generation of young/early adults that hasn't ever had to grow up.
Permanently ruining the future of one of these morons, simply because they mouth off, is ludicrous.
ETA: I'm not saying that what's happening should be allowed, but your proposed method of instantly branding a kid as a criminal that cannot own firearms will do NOTHING to help the situation.
CoGirl303
02-22-2018, 21:44
What of today's youth makes you think that they have been raised even close to the same way you were?
We, modern society, coddle mental illness, even to the point of giving it a pedestal of "bravery", we tell people they are brave for making the choice to be a tard, and even elevate the action of committing suicide to some "hallowed" act of desperation. The majority of teenagers today are so coddled and fondled that they can't handle someone presenting a different idea of how things should work... (Safe spaces, walk outs, etc...)
And you think they know better than to say something dumb? Perhaps get out of your little fantasy world and realize that today's society isn't a "Joseph Stalin-esque" society.
Teachers have next to no authority in the classroom.
Parents can be sent to jail for disciplining their children.
We have a generation of young/early adults that hasn't ever had to grow up.
Permanently ruining the future of one of these morons, simply because they mouth off, is ludicrous.
Sounds like the exuse making for their behavior to me. That bs needs to stop. They need to learn that bad behavior comes with consequences. The professional victim culture that Obama created and enabled needs to die off and kids need discipline and need to learn to respect authority.
how does removing their gun rights by flagging their NICS profile so they cant purchase a gun ruin their future?
They can still pass a bg check for a job, just cant own a gun.
I'm glad I dont have kids. Most likely never will either. What a nightmare that would be in todays world...kudos to those of you that are raising kids currently. I dont know how you do it.
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Grant H.
02-22-2018, 22:02
Sounds like the exuse making for their behavior to me. That bs needs to stop. They need to learn that bad behavior comes with consequences. The professional victim culture that Obama created and enabled needs to die off and kids need discipline and need to learn to respect authority.
how does removing their gun rights by flagging their NICS profile so they cant purchase a gun ruin their future?
They can still pass a bg check for a job, just cant own a gun.
I'm glad I dont have kids. Most likely never will either. What a nightmare that would be in todays world...kudos to those of you that are raising kids currently. I dont know how you do it.
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If you flag their records as "cannot own a gun" that means one of a few things...
Most often, that classification comes from having a violent crime, a felony, or having been committed.
As someone who runs background checks on employee's, I can tell you that while the details are not readily available, those things are absolutely present on a BGC. Guess what, you just hamstrung that kid from ever having a decent job.
I'm not making excuses at all. As Erni said:
So when these kids act like stupid kids we need to be adults, and act like adults. The punishment should be harsh and non capricious, and fit the crime. If this is stupid kids being stupid, punish their stupidity. If this is them being evil, isolate them and keep a firm eye on them.
Quit being vindictive towards twerps that weren't raised right, and propose rational ideas.
Your zero tolerance policy, that you are now so quickly stepping back from (after being shown that it's a foolish idea) is precisely the kind of thing that the left proposes.
Quit making their plans easier for them, and quit being frivolous with the rights of others.
CoGirl303
02-22-2018, 22:08
then modify the BGC to not show it to anyone execpt in Firearms Authorizations. any system can be changed to accomodate such an idea.
Maybe you should stop coddling them and stop making excuses for them because that's all I've heard from you is excuses this and excuses that for their behavior. If they cant behave, they dont get guns. Simple concept. Make threats, no guns. too easy.
I never had a zero tolerance policy in the terms you think and I already explained that, not explaining it again.
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Grant H.
02-22-2018, 22:22
then modify the BGC to not show it to anyone execpt in Firearms Authorizations. any system can be changed to accomodate such an idea.
If you think that changing how the NICS database works is "easy", or likely to happen, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about...
Maybe you should stop coddling them and stop making excuses for them because that's all I've heard from you is excuses this and excuses that for their behavior. If they cant behave, they dont get guns. Simple concept. Make threats, no guns. too easy.
I could pull a you here, and simply state that that "that's not what I meant, I already explained what I meant, and I'm not explaining it again..."
But... I can't leave it at that.
Have you never threatened harm to others? I can tell you, from your posts here, that you have. Well, then you don't get guns either, under you foolish policy.
What about those that commit violence in school? Well, damn, you're outta luck again. You've admitted to being violent in school on this board.
I'm not coddling them. I'm not making excuses for them.
I'm simply point out that your proposals are a knee jerk reaction, instead of being a rational and applicable solution.
I never had a zero tolerance policy in the terms you think and I already explained that, not explaining it again.
C'mon, at least be consistent...
Anyone who makes threats of this nature or similar should have a permanent flag placed on their NICS file and be permanently barred from ever purchasing a firearm. No negotiation, no pass go, no appeal, no well I was just kidding.
There should be zero tolerance for this nonsense.
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2018/02/21/colorado-students-arrested-threats/
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If you didn't mean what you wrote, then you should write what you mean...
Just because you're now backing away from that stance, that doesn't change what you wrote, and it's pretty explicit...
then modify the BGC to not show it to anyone execpt in Firearms Authorizations. any system can be changed to accomodate such an idea.
Maybe you should stop coddling them and stop making excuses for them because that's all I've heard from you is excuses this and excuses that for their behavior. If they cant behave, they dont get guns. Simple concept. Make threats, no guns. too easy.
I never had a zero tolerance policy in the terms you think and I already explained that, not explaining it again.
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Let's take how you were raised, since you put it out there. Clearly you were given no slack as a child. Most people I know were raised and allowed to be kids, i.e. to be given a chance to make mistakes and learn from their mistakes. That's not coddling. When I was growing up, some kids would pull fire alarms in the hopes that they would get out of taking tests. They thought it was a great idea. Kids don't think things through. They post crap online that makes adults do a double-take, and they don't think how it would affect their future. They take the fricking Tide Pod challenge, thnking it will get them liked by their peers for a nanosecond. They have poor judgement and must learn otherwise- sometimes the hard way. I'm sure you've known people that make the same mistake over and over and finally they grow up. With kids, it's the same- no mater how infuriating they can be. The ones that take longer to grow up and mature can test a person's patience, but they still deserve compassion, and not tyranny. The only thing to learn from tyranny is fear. The 2nd Amendment is a right. If a kid screws up when he's 15 (but commits n felonies, doesn't hurt anybody, and is just generally a fool), but matures into an adult at 23, what gives anybody the right to say, "You can't carry a firearm. You blew your chance when you were 15."
CoGirl303
02-22-2018, 22:29
If you think that changing how the NICS database works is "easy", or likely to happen, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about...
I could pull a you here, and simply state that that "that's not what I meant, I already explained what I meant, and I'm not explaining it again..."
But... I can't leave it at that.
Have you never threatened harm to others? I can tell you, from your posts here, that you have. Well, then you don't get guns either, under you foolish policy.
What about those that commit violence in school? Well, damn, you're outta luck again. You've admitted to being violent in school on this board.
I'm not coddling them. I'm not making excuses for them.
I'm simply point out that your proposals are a knee jerk reaction, instead of being a rational and applicable solution.
C'mon, at least be consistent...
If you didn't mean what you wrote, then you should write what you mean...
Just because you're now backing away from that stance, that doesn't change what you wrote, and it's pretty explicit...
im not talking about threatening to beat a kid up or fighting.
Im strictly talking about applying my concept to kids that threaten to shoot the fucking school up and murder people. There's a HUGE difference between threatening to throw down over a squabble and THREATENING MURDER at your school.
Are you dense? or are you stupid? Do you lack reading comprehension skills? Never mind. You can join Hurley on my ignore list. I dont deal well with other peoples stupidity. goodbye.
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Zundfolge
02-22-2018, 22:36
Put armed people in schools, they'll go somewhere else.
That's really the best we can hope for.
CoGirl303
02-22-2018, 22:37
Let's take how you were raised, since you put it out there. Clearly you were given no slack as a child. Most people I know were raised and allowed to be kids, i.e. to be given a chance to make mistakes and learn from their mistakes. That's not coddling. When I was growing up, some kids would pull fire alarms in the hopes that they would get out of taking tests. They thought it was a great idea. Kids don't think things through. They post crap online that makes adults do a double-take, and they don't think how it would affect their future. They take the fricking Tide Pod challenge, thnking it will get them liked by their peers for a nanosecond. They have poor judgement and must learn otherwise- sometimes the hard way. I'm sure you've known people that make the same mistake over and over and finally they grow up. With kids, it's the same- no mater how infuriating they can be. The ones that take longer to grow up and mature can test a person's patience, but they still deserve compassion, and not tyranny. The only thing to learn from tyranny is fear. The 2nd Amendment is a right. If a kid screws up when he's 15 (but commits n felonies, doesn't hurt anybody, and is just generally a fool), but matures into an adult at 23, what gives anybody the right to say, "You can't carry a firearm. You blew your chance when you were 15."
I had a lot of slack actually. The Stalin-esque techniques were indoctrinated about the time I was 13. I did some really stupid stuff to warrant that, but it never included firearms, threats of murder or shooting up a school or blowing up a school. Mine was all neighborhood mischief. I made mistakes, I was allowed to learn and grow from them.
I honestly cant believe you and others here are downplaying the serious nature of these threats. Threats such as these are NOT mentally stable behaviors.
Kids, teens or young adults, this is not acceptable in our society today regardless of the reason. I stand by my position that kids that do this should not be allowed to purchase, possess, or own firearms. EVER.
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Grant H.
02-22-2018, 22:41
im not talking about threatening to beat a kid up or fighting.
Im strictly talking about applying my concept to kids that threaten to shoot the fucking school up and murder people. There's a HUGE difference between threatening to throw down over a squabble and THREATENING MURDER at your school.
Are you dense? or are you stupid? Do you lack reading comprehension skills? Never mind. You can join Hurley on my ignore list. I dont deal well with other peoples stupidity. goodbye.
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LOL...
That's all I have...
Now that we've gone to name calling and "ignoring", this isn't going to end well.
ETA: And I see it's ended.
That's really the best we can hope for.
I'm hoping that is the directuoon that they'll take. Securing schools should be a multi-pronged approach.
No lock on the thread yet- just civilized discourse, please. COGirl needs a little time to calm down.
IBTL!+1
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Grant H.
02-22-2018, 22:50
Put armed people in schools, they'll go somewhere else.That's really the best we can hope for.
An acquaintance of mine proposed an idea on FB the other day, that I really liked.
There are, per stats that I have seen, ~180,000 .mil Vets that are unemployed.
We should find the funding to pay for them to be armed guards in schools across America. (School districts, if they were honest and not corrupt, could afford this quite easily. Local School districts here in CO are rife with corrupt spending).
Obviously there will have to be some rational thought put into this, as age, mental stability, and work performed in service of the country will all have to be taken into account. In other words, desk jockey's and mechanics probably don't fit the bill real well.
But, the upsides are huge...
Men and women that served this country and aren't working have a job.
Schools are protected by armed citizens who have been trained to defend an installation.
The children of this country can be educated in a safe environment.
I was just wondering earlier today where all the mods have been lately. I see them all in here now.
I can't recall where I heard it or saw it, but what of the idea of not only concealed carry for teachers (that is, those teachers that are comfortable with the idea of ccw) but perhaps tasers? I know there are both pros and cons to tasers, but I honesty don't know much about them.
Jesus... That escalated quickly.
Can anyone name me a safe place where no one could ever possibly be harmed?
Not in this lifetime. Not in this world.
There are no absolutes in life and no one gets out alive no matter how safe you play it. Roll the dice and move your mice.
Hug someone you love today. Hopefully you will get to do it again some day.
Be safe.
Grant H.
02-22-2018, 22:52
Jesus... That escalated quickly.
Sorry...
:D
I was just wondering earlier today where all the mods have been lately. I see them all in here now.
We are Legion. :)
buffalobo
02-22-2018, 22:54
AIBTLEWIN
CoGirl, you lose. Degraded your argument to name calling and got the thread locked. You can argue your case as hard or loud as you want until you sink to name calling. I have zero tolerance for it.
I was just wondering earlier today where all the mods have been lately. I see them all in here now.
Something something your mom's house, I guess?
Whatever. I do what I want.
AIBTLEWIN
CoGirl, you lose. Degraded your argument to name calling and got the thread locked. You can argue your case as hard or loud as you want until you sink to name calling. I have zero tolerance for it.
Ya. I'm officially over it. Stop now. Most here know I don't have the patience or tolerance for temp bans like the yellow hats do. Next time I decide I don't particularly care for it, you're gone for good. It'll make my life much easier.
As the saying goes... "I'm your Huckleberry. "
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