View Full Version : Miami Bridge Collapse
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/15/us/miami-bridge-collapse-latest/index.html
https://s.abcnews.com/images/US/florida-international-university-bridge-collapse2-ht-mem-180315_hpMain_4x3_992.jpg
Very sad.
How long til Sen. Bill Nelson introduces legislation to ban evil bridges?
I've been watching the coverage. There is some speculation that the bridge was being stress tested. Somebody screwed up and people died.
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kidicarus13
03-15-2018, 14:51
Don't I have a right to feel safe driving home?! Bridges are dangeroys, tunnels are much safer. I'm going to protest poor bridge design and walkout of work Friday afternoon.
It sucks that there was a traffic signal that had one direction of traffic lined up under the bridge.
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BushMasterBoy
03-15-2018, 15:13
It fell off.
I think they should go with a democratic solution.
Don't I have a right to feel safe driving home?! Bridges are dangeroys, tunnels are much safer. I'm going to protest poor bridge design and walkout of work Friday afternoon.
Don't do your walk out under a bridge.
BPTactical
03-15-2018, 16:00
More people have been killed by bridges today than by AR15's.
Just a thought....
I've been watching the coverage. There is some speculation that the bridge was being stress tested. Somebody screwed up and people died.
Why wasn't the road closed while the stress test took place? Don't these people think about the possibilities?
Sadly these types of tragedies have happened before and will happen again. Our legislators and engineers have blood on their hands because they refuse to learn and take our safety seriously.
I was commuting on this road when this happened back in 1989. I guess you can say that I am a survivor of this tragedy so my feelings are far more important than anyone else's knowledge about mechanical engineering or physics. My feelz!!!!!
https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/publicroads/10mar/04.cfm
There was this mess with an overpass that killed 3 in Colorado in 2004; https://www.denverpost.com/2006/03/20/a-series-of-deadly-errors/
There was this mess with an overpass that killed 3 in Colorado in 2004; https://www.denverpost.com/2006/03/20/a-series-of-deadly-errors/
I was going to bring that up. My roommate walked over to the highway to check it out when it happened. It was like a block from my house as the crow flies.
Great-Kazoo
03-15-2018, 18:31
I just heard in the press conference that even though Miami Dade is the county in which this took place, Brevard county just released a statement saying "its the NRAs fault"
The up side is, their deputies are still standing by.
That's what things look like when a bridge goes fully semi automatic.
What a horrifying thing to happen. :(
BushMasterBoy
03-15-2018, 19:02
One morning it was 28 degrees F. Then they launched a space shuttle. It was called the Challenger.
OtterbatHellcat
03-15-2018, 20:14
That's what things look like when a bridge goes fully semi automatic.
I appreciated the caliber of calculated humor in that. :D
Notice anything missing?
https://www.miamiresidence.com/images/featured/university-bridge-19.jpg
OtterbatHellcat
03-15-2018, 21:30
Yeah, the main support column.
eta...or is this rendering reversed from post #1...?
Honestly, it's hard to tell which side of the street the collapsed shot was taken from, for me at least.
Notice anything missing?
https://www.miamiresidence.com/images/featured/university-bridge-19.jpg
The pile of rubble and dead bodies?
BPTactical
03-16-2018, 07:16
Notice anything missing?
https://www.miamiresidence.com/images/featured/university-bridge-19.jpg
Suspension structure.
One would think they would have temporary shoring in place until the suspension structure was in place.
Suspension structure.
One would think they would have temporary shoring in place until the suspension structure was in place.
...or it was calculated that it was strong enough in the interim since the bridge wasn't open to foot traffic or other dynamic loads.
hollohas
03-16-2018, 08:50
Bridges can be built without center columns or suspension cables. (Truss Bridges). But I agree, that was one strange looking bridge. Typically you see support webs/diagonal members that are symmetric, this one had webs that weren't.
The tensioning cables were likely in the top chord. But you'd expect to see them extend out from the ends of the top and anchor somewhere. I haven't seen any pictures that show that.
A Colorado connection...
Rep. Mario Diaz-Balart, R-Fla., who represents part of Miami in the U.S. House, said the engineering company monitoring the project, BDI of Louisville, Colorado, "is super well-renowned, so that is why this is beyond shocking."
BDI said in a statement that it was "deeply saddened" by the collapse.
Collapsed Florida walkway built with 'accelerated' technology (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/collapsed-florida-walkway-built-with-accelerated-technology/ar-BBKhgUx)
BladesNBarrels
03-16-2018, 10:18
ABC - Accelerated Bridge Construction, Build the bridge next to the highway and then install in 48-72 hours.
Saves up to years of road diversion, etc.
"All progress requires change, but not all change is progress" (Dean Bennett)
It was the largest U.S. pedestrian bridge to have been moved that way and the first in the world to have been built from so-called self-cleaning concrete, which grabs pollutants from the air, the university said.
That sounds like self-dirtying concrete to me.
hollohas
03-16-2018, 10:44
That sounds like self-dirtying concrete to me.Exactly.
BushMasterBoy
03-16-2018, 11:03
They like to build like that in Florida. They stress the concrete with cable or rods. I think the math was wrong on this long piece. They are not real fond of just plain steel, the salt air makes for a lot of maintenance. Castable ceramic bridge is probably not a good idea. Another sad story.
The bridge was supposed to last 100 years. I had wondered if it would become a hazmat site before then requiring an elaborate disassembly to avoid releasing the pollutants.
Maybe they should have just planted some trees instead.
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You guys are quick to blame the government engineers but it's clear gravity is the problem.
Ban gravity = no bridge collapses
BPTactical
03-16-2018, 12:05
ABC - Accelerated Bridge Construction, Build the bridge next to the highway and then install in 48-72 hours.
Saves up to years of road diversion, etc.
"All progress requires change, but not all change is progress" (Dean Bennett)
"ABC"
Anticipated
Bridge
Collapse
hollohas
03-16-2018, 12:19
It is amazing that they would allow people or traffic on or below it before it was completely inspected and approved. If the engineer ordered it be tightened, it wasn't ready yet.
DenverGP
03-16-2018, 12:36
The tensioning cables were likely in the top chord. But you'd expect to see them extend out from the ends of the top and anchor somewhere. I haven't seen any pictures that show that.
Tension cables are in the bottom (top is under compression). Saw at least one pic where you can see the tension cable ends. I'll post when I can find it.
DenverGP
03-16-2018, 12:42
https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2018/03/15/deleted-fiu-bridge-tweet_custom-1d8153638847c0550419319d62839138fe9227d3-s1600-c85.png
hollohas
03-16-2018, 13:04
Tension cables are in the bottom (top is under compression). Saw at least one pic where you can see the tension cable ends. I'll post when I can find it.
I get that the top is under compression forces. However, tennsioning can be done in the top and bottom. The term is not very clear when you consider pre and post stressed concrete. I see your picture above shows what are likely the round sleeves that contain some sort of post-tensioned tendons.
The top also has them.
What's clear from ALL the pictures, is this bridge was not even close to being done. It's pretty obvious that the anchorage was likely incomplete. The road should have been closed.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180316/14f8f3ca16ad33de1612ca33431f4b29.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180316/42d041ac34694336c9d5a6ad72f23058.jpg
I think we can all agree that physics aside the bridge obviously wasn’t built correctly.
Sometimes there’s a huge discrepancy between what engineering wanted, what purchasing actually ordered, and what the guys in the field actually assembled.
When my dad graduated from the University of British Columbia School of Engineering (in the 60's) the graduates were given a simple ring made out of the steel from the collapsed Second Narrows Bridge. The bridge collapsed during final construction in 1958, killing 18, because engineers miscalculated the strength of a temporary support. So the grads were given the rings to remind them that if they **** up, people are going to die. My dad wore that ring until he retired.
Clearly some more rings need to be given out.
BPTactical
03-16-2018, 16:37
Looking at GP's pics it is clear tensioning cables were present in both upper and lower beams.
I am not an engineer, but some engineers said civil engineers should have asked REAL engineers to inspect numbers.
[Constr]
Grant H.
03-16-2018, 17:29
The people responsible have a history of sketchy work...
And yet, they're still in business and getting hired for projects...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/16/companies-behind-florida-bridge-collapse-have-history-fines-failures-lawsuits.html
hollohas
03-16-2018, 20:41
GP's last picture had something interesting in it to that I didn't catch right away. Rebar sticking straight up out one end and not the other.
The rendering in the link Ah Pook posted is accurate. I was wrong and wasn't seeing the entire picture. The rebar sticking up from the end is for the suspension support mast. The trusses are not symmetrical because they match up with where the suspension cables were going to be.
This bridge design may have been just fine. It was much more incomplete than I originally thought. It is without a doubt a suspension bridge. They removed the temp supports, without ANY of its suspension structure installed. None. And let people under it.
Whoever gave the go-ahead to remove the temp supports is in deep doo doo.
The tower is usually installed first. This bridge failed exactly where you would expect it would. Right by where the tower should have been.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180317/4cdd6fa8cf6cc31c46da51d3f4cd9353.jpg
hollohas
03-16-2018, 20:43
I am not an engineer, but some engineers said civil engineers should have asked REAL engineers to inspect numbers.
[Constr]What sort of engineer is a REAL engineer?
ABC - Accelerated Bridge Construction, Build the bridge next to the highway and then install in 48-72 hours.
Saves up to years of road diversion, etc.
"All progress requires change, but not all change is progress" (Dean Bennett)
More like ACME bridge construction, represented by Wile E. Coyote.....
The title 'engineer' has been used and abused over the years.
Like 'sanitation engineer', 'imagineer' or some other [fill in the blank]-engineer.
Electrical, mechanical, industrial, civil, or other accredited engineering degree (from a four year university) typically have a good nature rivalry, each taking pokes at the other.
ME says to EE, "Don't let the smoke out".
EE to ME, "You're a glorified grease monkey"
A two year degree from a college is NOT an engineering degree...regardless of how vigorously they disagree.
Anything related to safety typically requires professional registration, including technical exams, and continuing education. Civil engineering is high on the list requiring professional licensing.
Civil engineering is highly regulated, so there has to be more to the story besides the obvious lack of safety precautions. Failure on the part of the contractors, state regulators, etc..
Voice mail from bridge builder engineer to FDOT released . . . cracks were spotted before the collapse:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/16/senator-demands-docs-about-collapsed-florida-bridge-as-reports-cracks-surface.html
"Hey Tom, this is Denney Pate with FIGG bridge engineers. Calling to, uh, share with you some information about the FIU pedestrian bridge and some cracking that's been observed on the north end of the span, the pylon end of that span we moved this weekend. Um, so, uh, we've taken a look at it and, uh, obviously some repairs or whatever will have to be done but from a safety perspective we don't see that there's any issue there so we're not concerned about it from that perspective although obviously the cracking is not good and something's going to have to be, ya know, done to repair that. At any rate, I wanted to chat with you about that because I suspect at some point that's gonna get to your desk. So, uh, at any rate, call me back when you can. Thank you. Bye."
Hey now, I was a sanitation engineer employed by Inyo County when I was 15 to 18 years old. I picked up garbage at my transfer station better than anyone. [facepalm]
Rucker61
03-17-2018, 12:54
What sort of engineer is a REAL engineer?
One with PE license.
Grant H.
03-17-2018, 13:07
The title 'engineer' has been used and abused over the years.
Like 'sanitation engineer', 'imagineer' or some other [fill in the blank]-engineer.
Electrical, mechanical, industrial, civil, or other accredited engineering degree (from a four year university) typically have a good nature rivalry, each taking pokes at the other.
ME says to EE, "Don't let the smoke out".
EE to ME, "You're a glorified grease monkey"
A two year degree from a college is NOT an engineering degree...regardless of how vigorously they disagree.
Anything related to safety typically requires professional registration, including technical exams, and continuing education. Civil engineering is high on the list requiring professional licensing.
Civil engineering is highly regulated, so there has to be more to the story besides the obvious lack of safety precautions. Failure on the part of the contractors, state regulators, etc..
Kinda like how civil engineers build targets and electrical engineers build weapons?
LOL...
One with PE license.
This. Getting the PE license is incredibly involved, requiring extensive knowledge and testing.
I work with PE's frequently, building comms towers, and there are good ones and bad ones.
One with PE license.
A PE license is not required for a lot of engineering jobs.
A lot of engineers choose not to become licensed for any number of reasons. I could easily pass the EE PE exam, but it's not a requirement for the type of engineering work I perform.
As Grant H. said, there are good engineers and not so good engineers. Just as with doctors, lawyers, or any other profession.
Sorry I stirred the engineering pot. [Coffee]
I remember during 90s that some state won't let people use "engineer" without bs or ms. So some gifted high school recruits used title "architect."
I agree with some that engineer should at least have engineering deg. Ones who has PE are some who studied chemistry instead of Chem engineering or engineering or applied physics.
At least Chem and chemE don't have too much difference (some academic institution had no difference).
Shooter45
03-18-2018, 18:55
73926
TheSparkens
03-18-2018, 20:53
In many, many, of the the resent construction death investigations or catastrophic accidents from collapse to fire or a litany of other injury causing accident you can find two major denominator. The speed at witch things are built and the total and udder lack of training. To say you are a unlicensed anything is a crock of shit. If you are required to get a license in a state then there is no such thing, this goes to the skilled trades to the engineers and inspectors that are making sure it is completed correctly. I am in the construction industry and I am sick of hearing guys walk in and say " I am a unlicensed journeyman" NO YOU ARE NOT you are a long time apprentice and I am lucky if that is the case. We have made the testing for licensing to easy, ( because everyone should get a blue ribbon ) and we let computers that can not foresee field conditions tell us how fast things should be built and base this on unrealistic time lines that companies will make huge money in bonuses for substantial completion. Every day we have to call engineering firms and tell them they have screwed up and that a this or that is dangerous and illegal to build and you know what we get, no more time to fix there mistake.
JohnnyEgo
03-18-2018, 21:10
I'm an EE with a PE and a member of IEEE.
I have nothing constructive to add.
A few F-bombs
"If you can't handle an F-bomb, go F#%& yer hat!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=41&v=KtiTm2dKLgU
A few F-bombs
"If you can't handle an F-bomb, go F#%& yer hat!"
Thank you for posting that. He's good.
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