How many of you guys are at home

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

B/c of the teacher walk out? J/C

[KAPA]

It worked out, it's take your kids to work day today.

[colorider]

Yep. I'm home. Son is 12yrs old. We're hitting the shooting range, lunch, grab the toy hauler and get it ready for summer, mow lawn together, get dirt bikes ready for the season, then beers at twin peaks. Well, he gets a Coke. Wish they could have walked out on a Friday though.

[izzy]

I thought the walkout was on the 27th. It's my off week with my son either way so that's not something I have to worry about.

[CS1983]

Homeschooling mothers around the state are demanding equal rights as social engi... err, "teachers".

[OneGuy67]

Wife is stuck home with the child due to the protest...er, sorry, "rally". Complete bullshit.

[thedave1164]

I work from home and my kids are homeschooled, so not sure what you are talking about

[Irving]

My kids are off, but the calendar shows no school today already.

[BushMasterBoy]

Winds are 50mph. I was looking at this gun...

http://cabotgun.com/oak-collection/the-big-bang-pistol-set/#1

[Eric P]

Yep. I'm home. Son is 12yrs old. We're hitting the shooting range, lunch, grab the toy hauler and get it ready for summer, mow lawn together, get dirt bikes ready for the season, then beers at twin peaks. Well, he gets a Coke. Wish they could have walked out on a Friday though.

Make sure to post pictures on social media and take the schools money if they do anything against your kids.

[Snowman78]

Today is take your kid to work day however because I work from home every day is take your kid to work day. The teacher walk out/rally at the Capitol is tomorrow, Friday the 27th

[Snowman78]

Looks likes it’s today and tomorrow:
http://kdvr.com/2018/04/23/colorado-teacher-rallies-these-are-the-districts-cancelling-classes-on-thursday-friday/

[mattiooo]

My son is off tomorrow. I have no problem with teachers trying to protect their living. I think it's horrible that the people we entrust our kids to for half a day and the devolpment of their future aren't among the highest paid of the professions. I would rather have the very best for my kids, even if my taxes are a little higher because of it.

[izzy]

My son is off tomorrow. I have no problem with teachers trying to protect their living. I think it's horrible that the people we entrust our kids to for half a day and the devolpment of their future aren't among the highest paid of the professions. I would rather have the very best for my kids, even if my taxes are a little higher because of it.

I'm in 100% agreement with that.

[Snowman78]

I have a college degree and have been at my job for 10 years.
A teacher in my district with a college degree after 3 years makes $61,723 base pay for a 196 day work year.
I have to work more days per year and make a little less.
I have a buddy, his wife is a teacher in Jeffco and after 10 years with a masters degree makes just about 85k.
I don’t think they have it to bad here.
http://www.bvsd.org/HR/Documents/Negotiated%20Agreements%20and%20Salary%20Schedules/2017-18%20BVEA%20Pay%20Schedule%20-%20Salary%20Schedule.pdf

[Snowman78]

Ps: I do support teachers, my wife was a PE teacher before her spine surgery- I just don’t think it is as bad as they say it is.

[CS1983]

My son is off tomorrow. I have no problem with teachers trying to protect their living. I think it's horrible that the people we entrust our kids to for half a day and the devolpment of their future aren't among the highest paid of the professions. I would rather have the very best for my kids, even if my taxes are a little higher because of it.

Sure, as soon as the rest of us aren't held to pay for some BS social engineering in addition to making sure our own children have educational resources.

[Irving]

Sometimes teachers value things that I don't value, but they are better at teaching my daughter math than I am. Part of my job as a parent is to be engaged with my children and make sure they know how I see the world and my values. That comes with any interaction with any person, so I'm not very bothered by her having teachers with whom I might disagree.

[bellavite1]

Most teachers push their own agenda.
My stepdaughter, HS English teacher, makes sure to push her feminist bullshit agenda with "women literature" classes.
Enough with their bullshit.
They are paid (too much IMHO) to teach kids HOW to think, not WHAT to think.
If they don't like it, there's hamburgers at McDonald's that need flipping.

[Gman]

Sure, as soon as the rest of us aren't held to pay for some BS social engineering in addition to making sure our own children have educational resources.
...and the more money that we pump into it seems to have an inverse effect on quality.

[Gman]

They are paid (too much IMHO) to teach kids HOW to think, not WHAT to think.
Education is a life-long proposition. I had the advantage of teachers that taught us how to LEARN. If you can teach yourself new skills, there's no limit to what you can achieve. You're also not boxed into WHAT people tell you to think by being able to find information and make your own conclusions.

I've made a career in the Tech world by being one of the few that will actually RTFM.

[Delfuego]

I have no problem with teachers trying to protect their living. Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner...

[OneGuy67]

The legislature does not determine salary; that is a local school board decision. The protest is about the possibility of them paying an additional 3% into their retirement as part of trying to right the upside down boat of their division of PERA as well as raising the retirement age to 60. Too many retirees and not enough people working and contributing is the main problem. You want to continue with a defined benefit program instead of a 401(k), then you need to have more skin in it. State employees had to, so can the teachers. They also want to raise awareness for Initiative 93 which would tax people who make $150k a year or more and businesses in order to add money to a fund for the schools.

[Batteriesnare]

According to that schedule, they would have to have ad masters degree to be making 61k after 3 years, plus continuing ed....


I have a college degree and have been at my job for 10 years.
A teacher in my district with a college degree after 3 years makes $61,723 base pay for a 196 day work year.
I have to work more days per year and make a little less.
I have a buddy, his wife is a teacher in Jeffco and after 10 years with a masters degree makes just about 85k.
I don’t think they have it to bad here.
http://www.bvsd.org/HR/Documents/Negotiated%20Agreements%20and%20Salary%20Schedules/2017-18%20BVEA%20Pay%20Schedule%20-%20Salary%20Schedule.pdf

[davsel]

I received an email from one of my daughter's teachers yesterday, stating what homework was expected to be completed during the school closure. I replied by telling the teacher to do her damn job - along with additional hostile words.

Some schools may also have to make up days this summer if they do not have enough days on the books to qualify for their Fed handouts.

Teachers have been crying for more pay since I was in elementary. Their pay has been going up, and graduate ability has been going down for as far back as I can remember.

The only thing I somewhat sympathize with them on, is the number of administrators making good money is always rising. However, they allow it through their unions, so not so much.

Abolish the Department of Education, and privatize the entire system. Remove the education regulations and taxes and parents can pay as they go.

[mindfold]

My only comment is, try selling a house in a crappy school district. The taxes you pay you get it back in value of your home. Yeah the current market is outrageous but during the downturn those homes in excellent districts were much easier to sell.

I also have no issue with teachers asking for more. Hell at least once a month, they have a “pass the hat” type fundraiser for the teacher aides. Schools don’t have funding for that. The aides are the ones on the playground and the bus drop off areas. I would rather have someone making a bit more money that I entrust with my children.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[colorider]

One of my good buddies is a Jeffco teacher and has been for 20yrs. There is a lot about this walk out that is NOT in the news or has been publicized.

[Gman]

Well, enlighten us. Otherwise, they're having a public walk-out for some hidden agenda.

[OneGuy67]

Well, enlighten us. Otherwise, they're having a public walk-out for some hidden agenda.

I agree!

[Irving]

Most teachers push their own agenda.


Most everyone pushes their own agenda, all the time. If you take a gun fighting class, they aren't teaching you how to be a good student. They teach you their way. You learn what they want you to learn, and when you're done, do with that knowledge what you will. It's the same for every single thing I've ever learned, in every walk of life. It's pretty silly that people expect teachers to be any different.


I'm under the impression that there is bloat in the administrative side of the education department. I've always assumed that school districts get a ton of money, but that it isn't spent well. As a result, I automatically never "YES" for anything that pertains to giving more money to schools, or anything "for the children." That makes me a bit jaded and checked out, but change my win and you can get my vote. On the other hand, this school year I've regularly bought school supplies for my kid's teacher, and the other teachers that I've interacted. To the point where I would make a monthly round at the school and ask what teachers need, then bring it in for them. I was honest that I had additional motivations in the gesture, but still, I'd rather give money directly to where it can be used, instead of being filtered down through countless layers and is all but gone when it gets to where it needs to go.

[Grant H.]

Until there is some oversight on how the money in the school districts is spent, they go pound sand. They don't need anymore money.

The school districts are good at allocating money, telling the teachers they can't use it, then moving it into the general fund the next year as "surplus"...

[Gman]

...instead of being filtered down through countless layers and is all but gone when it gets to where it needs to go.
That sounds just like government. ;-)

[hurley842002]

Until there is some oversight on how the money in the school districts is spent, they go pound sand. They don't need anymore money.

The school districts are good at allocating money, telling the teachers they can't use it, then moving it into the general fund the next year as "surplus"...Agree, and I have one child in school and one heading there next year. I'm all for schools being funded appropriately, I am not for money being wasted. Personally, I'm in favor of a significant cut in tax payer money for schools, with the appropriate reduction in my income tax, I can then take that money, and send my children where I want, then folks who don't have children in schools aren't stuck footing the bill. Unfortunately the amount of my income tax going towards education is likely minuscule in the grand scheme of things, and I likely wouldn't be in the positive enough to pay for their schooling.

Disclaimer: I'm new to the school thing, so I likely have no idea what I'm talking about, these are just thoughts that run through my mind.

[Irving]

Winds are 50mph. I was looking at this gun...

http://cabotgun.com/oak-collection/the-big-bang-pistol-set/#1

Seems like a pretty long way to go to cover up an idiot scratch. ;)

[Gman]

Seems like a pretty long way to go to cover up an idiot scratch. ;)
Hell, I couldn't afford to read the linked info.

"If you have to ask "how much", you can't afford it."

[Delfuego]

Abolish the Department of Education, and privatize the entire system. Remove the education regulations and taxes and parents can pay as they go.That's a great idea, then we can really be a 3rd world nation.

[Gman]

That's a great idea, then we can really be a 3rd world nation.
Because all of those kids coming out of private schools aren't getting an education?

[MrPrena]

It doesn't matter it is minimum wage or executive pay. People compare their monetary pay and come similar firld/sector/description and grass looks always greener on the other side.

Our district just passed 4day/week school and now this...
If they wave the edu degrees, I will apply to school district myself. 180day/yr sounds more attractive than 70hr+/week corporate job that puts in 3x + more hours per year at 2.8x more pay.

[Irving]

I didn't like the pay at my job, so I quit. It was very scary and I wasn't sure if I was going to make it. Then I made twice the money and probably worked half as much (or less), so I'm happy and glad I took the risk to make the change. You'll never know what you can do unless you go out and try. I feel like fighting the organization is a waste of time for everyone. If everyone goes and gets different jobs, something will have to change to get teachers back.

[sniper7]

I think they should fire them all for fighting to try and get their pay more in line with others in the same profession.

Then when they are all fired there will be a whole lot of parents in a very ugly situation that count on their kids going to school to get an education (while the parents are at work). Going to be tough to take your kid to work every day or have to pay a whole lot for childcare/paycut for homeschooling/private school.

[gta_spec]

We need less public schools and more charter schools modeled like this:

https://www.hillsdale.edu/educational-outreach/barney-charter-school-initiative/

[OtterbatHellcat]

There sure a lot of good points and well spoken opinions in here on the topic.

My first thoughts are more than likely to not be very popular, or perhaps conducive to argument. I will offer though, that it seems I remember a time when teachers did what they did because they desired to, wanted to....for a long time, and all the while knowing you weren't going to get rich doing it.

If you wanted more than that, you should have gotten "that" degree instead.

[Delfuego]

Maybe we should just call in the Pinkertons

[Joe_K]

If I walked out of my job to demand more pay, do you know what would happen? I’d lose my job that’s what. Teachers, and every other union job are full of spineless, whiny, overpaid, under worked commies. It should be teachers play in traffic day. End rant.


“Don’t go slow, be careful” Jedi

[feal]

wtf, boulder schools are closed for a walkout on friday.... is this the same thing?

[Batteriesnare]

BIIIIGGGG difference here though - they're not walking out, they are using personal days or are being docked pay, just like taking time off from any other job for which you have the flexibility to do so. The fact that the districts cannot summon enough backup to cover their obligations is not the teachers' fault, unless you want to argue that people cannot use their personal paid time off in the manner they see fit. What they or you choose to do with that time is a lawful right as a citizen. Even more so, a lot of teachers in CO are not in any union, so be very cautious in grouping them together with a conglomerate that you distain.

The fact that they are able to generate enough momentum and agreement to organize folks to do so on the same day should be examined, regardless of your opinion of the matter that is motivating them.


If I walked out of my job to demand more pay, do you know what would happen? I’d lose my job that’s what. Teachers, and every other union job are full of spineless, whiny, overpaid, under worked commies. It should be teachers play in traffic day. End rant.


“Don’t go slow, be careful” Jedi

[Irving]

If I walked out of my job to demand more pay, do you know what would happen? I’d lose my job that’s what. Teachers, and every other union job are full of spineless, whiny, overpaid, under worked commies. It should be teachers play in traffic day. End rant.


While I generally agree, have you ever had a union job, or been a teacher?

[Great-Kazoo]

I'm curious who they think will be the ones who say OK lets pay them more, the federal .gov? All disputes over income are the fault of their administrative leaders and need to be addressed on each states level.

All these walkouts trying to mobilize sympathy, from the people we know with school age kids. It's backfired, to the point of not just the next request for $$, but anytime the request, or ballot comes up. They will vote No, as will others

Shitcan the over paid administrative personnel, reduce the over bloated budgets that pay (once again) the administrative people and perhaps change might happen. Tie that in to performance of said teachers students, then perhaps parents would be more willing to say yes to Teachers pay increase.

[DavieD55]

Give it two decades, and we'll be bent over, continually getting raped by China's superior intellectuals (both in intelligence and quantity)... who came at a significant discount to our own.



Perhaps that is their end goal. A completely dumbed down America. An idiocracy of fellow travelers and useful idiots who are easily subverted.

[Madeinhb]

Perhaps that is their end goal. A completely dumbed down America. An idiocracy of fellow travelers and useful idiots who are easily subverted.

"Welcome to Costco. I Love You. "

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

BIIIIGGGG difference here though - they're not walking out, they are using personal days or are being docked pay, just like taking time off from any other job for which you have the flexibility to do so. The fact that the districts cannot summon enough backup to cover their obligations is not the teachers' fault, unless you want to argue that people cannot use their personal paid time off in the manner they see fit.

:confused: :confused: :confused:
What place of employment has the ability to backfill when EVERYONE wants the same day off? Granted I work in healthcare and of course we are all encouraged and allowed to use our PTO...but not everyone on the same day.

[roberth]

In my job if I want more money or something I have to EARN it by becoming more productive and knowledgeable, but I work in a meritocracy where skills and knowledge are held in high regard.

Stupid people don't improve themselves or try to become more productive, stupid people go on strike so they can alienate themselves from their customer base (taxpayers) and create an adversarial relationship with their employer (taxpayers). In this case these asshole "teachers" want more money which will increase their own taxes as well as the taxes of the communities in which they "work".

Generally speaking civil service employees shouldn't be allowed to go on strike, their employer and customer are the same entity, the taxpayer, and they shouldn't be allowed to abuse the taxpayer.

I would advocate that plumbers and electricians and other trades stop using the word union and use a word that will separate their superior skills from generally low-skilled union workers, the description I'd like to see them go back to is "guild". Guilds existed partly as a pathway to skilled crafts and professions through apprenticeships and controlled access to who actually did work projects.

[roberth]

One other thing I forgot to mention. Economics.

There are more people coming to Colorado, thus it is safe to assume that there are more teachers included in the migration. Simple economics states that the more supply you have the lower the pricing goes, just like in my chosen field there are probably more teachers for the district to choose from so the salary will remain low until the demand is met, when the demand goes up then the price will go up providing the supply remains the same or diminishes.

[CoGirl303]

My son is off tomorrow. I have no problem with teachers trying to protect their living. I think it's horrible that the people we entrust our kids to for half a day and the devolpment of their future aren't among the highest paid of the professions. I would rather have the very best for my kids, even if my taxes are a little higher because of it.

If a bunch of millionaire asshole sports players can strike for MLB, NFL, NBA and NHL...so can teachers.

I'm absolutely disgusted by that Republican Senate asshole here in our legislator who was trying to pass a bill to put teachers who strike in jail. It's a direct violation of their 1st Amendment rights to demonstrate, protest, assemble and their right to redress for griveances against the government.



Ps: I do support teachers, my wife was a PE teacher before her spine surgery- I just don’t think it is as bad as they say it is.

It's not just about their pay. It's also about their pensions and the school budgets.

Many teachers have to pay for their own supplies for their classes.

When you add in the cost of living here, these teachers are grossly underpaid. Colorado ranks 31st in terms of pay.

Even further adding to the argument, when marijuana was legalized here, Education, schools and teachers were supposed to be seeing a lot of that money...they aren't getting anywhere near what they were promised, but that's no surprise really! So was our infrastructure (roads, road repairs, improved utilities, etc) but that's a topic for another discussion. Just another example of big government promising things and failing to follow through as usual and the teachers are the ones paying the price.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180427/9eab87751aeefff01b2850a1781dfd7d.jpg


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[hollohas]

BIIIIGGGG difference here though - they're not walking out, they are using personal days or are being docked pay, just like taking time off from any other job for which you have the flexibility to do so. The fact that the districts cannot summon enough backup to cover their obligations is not the teachers' fault, unless you want to argue that people cannot use their personal paid time off in the manner they see fit. What they or you choose to do with that time is a lawful right as a citizen.



At most places of employment, vacation time must be approved prior for this very reason. Employers don't want everyone gone at once. If too many people already have the day off, your request gets denied. So yeah, most people don't get free, unapproved use of their PTO.

Teacher salaries in the metro area are pretty darn good. Yeah, its expensive to live here. It is for all of us. If you're not making enough at you're current job, find another.

Most area teachers make great pay. More than many people make in a year. In Jeffco, prior to the board recall, they were going to get pay raises...but merit based...which they were completely opposed to.

Sure, they start on the lower end as new teachers, but the salary schedule allows for a raise every year which is more than most of us will ever get.

On top of the pay being good, so are the benefits. The retirement is great. Much better than the rest of us can count on.

I really don't understand the problem. We all WISH we made more.

In Jeffco, the total general fund is $697,704,000'ish. 80% of that goes to employee compensation. 80%. And they think they don't get paid enough? There is only so much money to go around. And they get a damn big chunk of it.

What's BS IMO, is that many district charter school teachers only make a percentage of the pay the normal school teachers make. If anyone should be upset, it's them. For example, Addenbrooke Academy, which is a Jefferson County Public School, the teachers only get paid 82-93% of normal Jeffco teachers. Many others are much, much less. The charter schools only get a portion of the funding as well. School districts are not required to share property tax funding with charter schools. Which, I can't stress this enough, are PUBLIC SCHOOLS. Only 11 of the states districts equitably share funding, on a per student basis, with charter schools.

There are a whole bunch of kids and teachers not getting a fair share of funding, and it's NOT the teachers walking out. It's the public charter schools that are getting screwed.

[OneGuy67]

If a bunch of millionaire asshole sports players can strike for MLB, NFL, NBA and NHL...so can teachers. It's a direct violation of their 1st Amendment rights to demonstrate, protest, assemble and their right to redress for grievances against the government.

It's not just about their pay. It's also about their pensions and the school budgets. Many teachers have to pay for their own supplies for their classes.

Even further adding to the argument, when marijuana was legalized here, Education, schools and teachers were supposed to be seeing a lot of that money...they aren't getting anywhere near what they were promised, but that's no surprise really! So was our infrastructure (roads, road repairs, improved utilities, etc) but that's a topic for another discussion. Just another example of big government promising things and failing to follow through as usual and the teachers are the ones paying the price.

Are you okay with any public employee striking? Say law enforcement, fire personnel or health care? Just walk off the job claiming 1st Amendment Rights?

The school division of PERA is the most underwater of all the divisions due to having more retirees and less current employees paying into the system. People are living longer and drawing more money than the actuaries initially calculated. As such, it isn't out of the realm of reality that teachers will need to increase their portion of their retirement from 8% to 11% and not expect the school districts to increase their share as well as increasing their age of retirement to 60 from 55-58 in order to attempt to provide some solvency in their division of PERA. We state employees had to do have changes made in order to make our division of PERA more solvent and they are talking about adding more changes. As for their personal spending, most all people I know spend their personal money for equipment and supplies for their respective jobs. I do. I buy a number of pieces of rather expensive equipment in order to do my job better and safer and I deduct that from my annual taxes.

They weren't promised anything from the government; Amendment 64's wording provided the fiscal numbers, but the pro pot ads just said money to schools. Here is the language of the Amendment that no one bothered to read prior to voting for it: "Shall there be an amendment to the Colorado constitution concerning marijuana, and, in connection therewith, providing for the regulation of marijuana; permitting a person twenty-one years of age or older to consume or possess limited amounts of marijuana; providing for the licensing of cultivation facilities, product manufacturing facilities, testing facilities, and retail stores; permitting local governments to regulate or prohibit such facilities; requiring the general assembly to enact an excise tax to be levied upon wholesale sales of marijuana; requiring that the first $40 million in revenue raised annually by such
tax be credited to the public school capital construction assistance fund; and requiring the general assembly to enact legislation governing the cultivation, processing, and sale of industrial hemp?"

[JohnnyEgo]

Mom was a teacher, ex-wife was a teacher, current wife was a teacher until she got tired of all the unpaid time, ridiculous constraints on her teaching methodology and subject matter, and the constant demands from a-hole parents who don't want to raise their own children but do want to yell and scream about how the school system picks up the slack. So my natural sympathy on this one is with the teachers. Anyone who thinks an Elementary school teacher is overpaid should have to spend a week in my son's class. One volunteer day a month wears me out.

[Martinjmpr]

I think most taxpayers in the metro area wouldn't mind paying more in taxes to support schools if they got in return a guarantee that the additional money would be used for teacher pay and classroom expenses and NOTHING ELSE. Not administrative costs, not overhead, etc,

What taxpayers are reluctant to do (for good reason) is to write a blank check to the school district or to the state which then uses the money to increase the number of administrators, bottle washers, diversity enforcers etc or to fund "the perverted arts" (Simpson's reference. ;) )

It seems to me it would be simple for the legislature to draft a proposal that does exactly this - raises specific taxes for the SPECIFIC purpose of raising teacher pay and NOTHING ELSE - but they won't do it because what the unions REALLY want is that blank check. They don't want strings attached or any kind of accountability.

As for teacher pay being so low that teachers can't afford living expenses, there are LOTS of people in that boat here in the Denver area. Teachers are hardly the only ones to suffer in that respect. I guess the solution for them is to either find a way to live with or find a way to change their situation, and if that means quitting their teaching job for a better paying one, or relocating to a less expensive city, then so be it. Millions of Americans do that every year and always have. If that happens, then sooner or later school districts are going to realize that if they want to retain experienced teachers they're going to have to pay them according to their value.

I don't have an issue with teachers complaining about their low pay. I do have a problem with teachers (or any other set of employees) acting as though they are a special case and deserve to be exempted (at public expense) from the same economic forces that the rest of us are subject to.

[CoGirl303]

Are you okay with any public employee striking? Say law enforcement, fire personnel or health care? Just walk off the job claiming 1st Amendment Rights?

The school division of PERA is the most underwater of all the divisions due to having more retirees and less current employees paying into the system. People are living longer and drawing more money than the actuaries initially calculated. As such, it isn't out of the realm of reality that teachers will need to increase their portion of their retirement from 8% to 11% and not expect the school districts to increase their share as well as increasing their age of retirement to 60 from 55-58 in order to attempt to provide some solvency in their division of PERA. We state employees had to do have changes made in order to make our division of PERA more solvent and they are talking about adding more changes. As for their personal spending, most all people I know spend their personal money for equipment and supplies for their respective jobs. I do. I buy a number of pieces of rather expensive equipment in order to do my job better and safer and I deduct that from my annual taxes.

They weren't promised anything from the government; Amendment 64's wording provided the fiscal numbers, but the pro pot ads just said money to schools. Here is the language of the Amendment that no one bothered to read prior to voting for it: "Shall there be an amendment to the Colorado constitution concerning marijuana, and, in connection therewith, providing for the regulation of marijuana; permitting a person twenty-one years of age or older to consume or possess limited amounts of marijuana; providing for the licensing of cultivation facilities, product manufacturing facilities, testing facilities, and retail stores; permitting local governments to regulate or prohibit such facilities; requiring the general assembly to enact an excise tax to be levied upon wholesale sales of marijuana; requiring that the first $40 million in revenue raised annually by such
tax be credited to the public school capital construction assistance fund; and requiring the general assembly to enact legislation governing the cultivation, processing, and sale of industrial hemp?"

correct me if I'm wrong but are the teachers not part of a teacher's union?

If the public employees are part of a union, then they have the right to strike. If not, then they dont...unless they vote to form a union.


I'm probably going off the ads and some of what politicians were selling in regards to mj money going towards education, but still a lot more than $90 million should be going towards education.


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[davsel]

Seems to be a lot of people who feel teachers are underpaid and want to raise everyone's taxes to pay them.
Why not have the teacher's unions start a GoFundMe page to accommodate these generous individuals instead?

[Martinjmpr]

You know, I hear this over and over and over with regard to the teacher pay issue and it really rubs me the wrong way:




Many teachers have to pay for their own supplies for their classes.

Let's state that correctly: Many teachers CHOOSE to pay for supplies for their own classes.

It may seem like a quibble but it's not. Nobody is forcing teachers to pay out of their own pockets for school supplies and yet on the news you hear this refrain again and again and again ad nauseum.

I want to see one example - just one, bonafide, verified example - of a teacher who was fired, fined, disciplined or otherwise punished because he/she refused to pay out of his/her own pocket for school supplies. That would not only be a violation of the employment contract but it would most likely violate state law as well.

Now, if teachers CHOOSE to spend their own money on certain things because they don't like the ones that are provided by the schools that's their choice, isn't it? And if they feel like they can't afford it then what is stopping them from telling the parents of those students that they, the parents, should be the ones contributing (because really, it's their kids, they ought to be the ones paying for their kids education, shouldn't they?)

And if the response to that is "well, in poor parts of town parent's can't afford to contribute to the school" - well, if that's true then how are they going to be able to afford the higher taxes that will be needed to increase teacher salaries? The money's got to come from somewhere.

[colorider]

It s not really school supplies. It's classroom decorations they have to pay for. The alphabet letters above the chalkboard, the neat cartoonish stuff on the walls, the fun cutouts on the door. That stuff is out of pocket. And also a dollar at the dollar store.

[CoGirl303]

You know, I hear this over and over and over with regard to the teacher pay issue and it really rubs me the wrong way:



Let's state that correctly: Many teachers CHOOSE to pay for supplies for their own classes.

It may seem like a quibble but it's not. Nobody is forcing teachers to pay out of their own pockets for school supplies and yet on the news you hear this refrain again and again and again ad nauseum.

I want to see one example - just one, bonafide, verified example - of a teacher who was fired, fined, disciplined or otherwise punished because he/she refused to pay out of his/her own pocket for school supplies. That would not only be a violation of the employment contract but it would most likely violate state law as well.

Now, if teachers CHOOSE to spend their own money on certain things because they don't like the ones that are provided by the schools that's their choice, isn't it? And if they feel like they can't afford it then what is stopping them from telling the parents of those students that they, the parents, should be the ones contributing (because really, it's their kids, they ought to be the ones paying for their kids education, shouldn't they?)

And if the response to that is "well, in poor parts of town parent's can't afford to contribute to the school" - well, if that's true then how are they going to be able to afford the higher taxes that will be needed to increase teacher salaries? The money's got to come from somewhere.

maybe they're buying their own supplies because the state issued supplies are inadequate?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

One other thing I forgot to mention. Economics.

There are more people coming to Colorado, thus it is safe to assume that there are more teachers included in the migration. Simple economics states that the more supply you have the lower the pricing goes, just like in my chosen field there are probably more teachers for the district to choose from so the salary will remain low until the demand is met, when the demand goes up then the price will go up providing the supply remains the same or diminishes.

By that argument, demand would increase too. More people coming includes teachers and students.

[hollohas]

Darn near every school has a required material list that students must provide at the beginning of each year. If they need more supplies, ask the parents to provide them.

And I always hear from teachers that they feel like parents expect them to raise their kids. And I believe that to be true very often. But what I also hear a lot is teachers bitching about parents who constantly bug them. Which is it? Do they want the parents involved or not??? You can't ask for more parent involvement and then accuse parents of being pests when they do get involved.

[Martinjmpr]

maybe they're buying their own supplies because the state issued supplies are inadequate?




[Dunno] The reason doesn't matter. What I take exception to is this ridiculous claim that teachers "HAVE TO" buy supplies.

No, they don't HAVE TO. They CHOOSE to.

The reason why they choose to doesn't matter.

Because it's still their choice.

If the teacher can't buy classroom decorations or stars to put by the student's names because she has to pay her rent, that's OK in my book.

My guess is that the children will not grow up to be homeless sociopaths because they were deprived of little "GREAT JOB!" stickers on their homework.

(Side note: I had a professor in an English class who used to do that to our papers. In COLLEGE! [facepalm] )

[OneGuy67]

correct me if I'm wrong but are the teachers not part of a teacher's union? If the public employees are part of a union, then they have the right to strike. If not, then they dont...unless they vote to form a union.

I'm probably going off the ads and some of what politicians were selling in regards to mj money going towards education, but still a lot more than $90 million should be going towards education.

The National Education Association (NEA) is the national union that has organized all the protests across the nation that are capturing the media's attention. Not all teachers are part of their local union, but most are. There are unions for police (FOP, etc.) at the local, state and national level, and there are unions for the fire personnel (IAFF) as well. Do you support them walking off the job to protest? BTW, its illegal for them to do so in Colorado. I am part of a union I guess in my occupation, but there are no collective bargaining rights, just legal protection.


maybe they're buying their own supplies because the state issued supplies are inadequate?

The State doesn't provide supplies. What part of local control, e.g. local school boards isn''t registering? That is the crux of many people's argument to their idiotic walkout to the capital; the legislatures do not control their salary, their school districts decisions into how to spend per pupil funding each district does get from the state or their working environment.

If the teachers want to get the local voters on board for a Mil Levy Override (MLO) like Douglas County wants, or support your desire for additional funding for school districts (e.g. possible pay raises for you) you don't walk out of a school day and leave the students and parents hanging. Their is an expectation that the teacher will be in the classroom and teaching the children during the time period expected and if the teacher isn't there, then the parent or parents have to find childcare or take a day off to be with their child(ren).

[Irving]

Shit, I've been buying my own business supplies this whole time. I should unionize.

[RblDiver]

*short rant* One thing I think absolutely needs to be addressed asap is switching pensions from defined benefit to defined contribution (for all public employees, not just teachers). That will begin the process of stopping a lot of the bleeding. *end short rant*

[OneGuy67]

*short rant* One thing I think absolutely needs to be addressed asap is switching pensions from defined benefit to defined contribution (for all public employees, not just teachers). That will begin the process of stopping a lot of the bleeding. *end short rant*

I agree.

[DavieD55]

They're protesting TABOR too since that is a major pain in their ass. They want to bankrupt you for the children. It's for the children.. [sheepshagger]

[nogaroheli]

*short rant* One thing I think absolutely needs to be addressed asap is switching pensions from defined benefit to defined contribution (for all public employees, not just teachers). That will begin the process of stopping a lot of the bleeding. *end short rant*

And until that happens quit complaining about how underpaid they are. A yearly salary is not the only part of their compensation and refusing to acknowledge that they have one of the BEST retirement packages available (the kind most of the private sector had to get rid of a long time ago due to cost) when they talk about how little they are paid is either ignorant or intellectually dishonest.

The teachers union does a great job of getting them to parrot the line of overworked and underpaid. I'm surrounded by public school teachers in my family, active and retired, and the amount of work required sure doesn't seem overwhelming to me.

If you don't like the pay find another job.

[newracer]

As posted already, I wouldn't mine paying more for actual classroom expenses and teachers salaries. However I think the overhead and administration costs are currently out of control.

[CS1983]

I find it hilarious that a ton of people on this thread are all about even more forced income theft (read: taxes) for a pet cause, so long as it really goes to said cause. But I bet they bitched and moaned and blah blah blah when Obamacare passed. There is NO DIFFERENCE in the socialism of public education and public healthcare. Neither are owed to anyone at the gun-to-head expense of another, and neither are necessary in a public capacity, as they do not fall within the actual purview of the Federal, State, or Local government except as usurped by said levels from the family.

What public school ultimately is, is a glorified babysitting service so that people can pursue a lifestyle which is false in its necessity, a la both parents working. And then they go out and get themselves in insane amounts of debt trying to constantly maintain an artificially luxurious lifestyle, because they've been given the time-credit to do so by the lender of the government-at-large; the interest is your child's mind, and you will never be able to pay it off, ever. It's also a method of bringing in an entire generation year after year to poison their minds with progressively dangerous ideas. I see it as no different than a pedophile offering to babysit for $5 a week. Obviously, he's up to something. Do we really believe the government and those who run it is really that magnanimous? Get real.

I grant that there are indeed situations where both parents might need to work, but they are rare.

If people want to send their kids off to the contra-education camps, fine. But why make anyone else pay for it? If it's so damn important, make the sacrifice and pay! Then we'll see how important it is and how unnecessary all the other fluff of life is.

High school graduates today cannot hold an electric candle to the 8th graders of the early 1900's. Why are we paying more for less output? Why are we paying at all? Why is socialism in a form which is accepted by society not recognized as such? Why is it that we only hem, haw, and have hackles raised when it's a merely new-to-us application of it? Why is this form of socialism acceptable, but ensuring someone doesn't die early is wrong?

Here are the thoughts of John Taylor Gatto, in his speech given in 1990 when accepting the New York City Teacher of the Year award. It's scathing...:

http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/john_gatto.html

[Martinjmpr]

I find it hilarious that a ton of people on this thread are all about even more forced income theft (read: taxes) for a pet cause, so long as it really goes to said cause. But I bet they bitched and moaned and blah blah blah when Obamacare passed. There is NO DIFFERENCE in the socialism of public education and public healthcare. Neither are owed to anyone at the gun-to-head expense of another, and neither are necessary in a public capacity, as they do not fall within the actual purview of the Federal, State, or Local government except as usurped by said levels from the family.

What public school ultimately is, is a glorified babysitting service so that people can pursue a lifestyle which is false in its necessity, a la both parents working. And then they go out and get themselves in insane amounts of debt trying to constantly maintain an artificially luxurious lifestyle, because they've been given the time-credit to do so by the lender of the government-at-large; the interest is your child's mind, and you will never be able to pay it off, ever. It's also a method of bringing in an entire generation year after year to poison their minds with progressively dangerous ideas. I see it as no different than a pedophile offering to babysit for $5 a week. Obviously, he's up to something. Do we really believe the government and those who run it is really that magnanimous? Get real.

I grant that there are indeed situations where both parents might need to work, but they are rare.

If people want to send their kids off to the contra-education camps, fine. But why make anyone else pay for it? If it's so damn important, make the sacrifice and pay! Then we'll see how important it is and how unnecessary all the other fluff of life is.

High school graduates today cannot hold an electric candle to the 8th graders of the early 1900's. Why are we paying more for less output? Why are we paying at all? Why is socialism in a form which is accepted by society not recognized as such? Why is it that we only hem, haw, and have hackles raised when it's a merely new-to-us application of it? Why is this form of socialism acceptable, but ensuring someone doesn't die early is wrong?

Here are the thoughts of John Taylor Gatto, in his speech given in 1990 when accepting the New York City Teacher of the Year award. It's scathing...:

http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/john_gatto.html

You forgot to tell us to get off your lawn.

[CS1983]

You forgot to tell us to get off your lawn.

I will never ever own a lawn so long as property taxes are a thing. Get off the government's lawn, and don't walk on the Sergeant Major's rocks, either. :D

signed,
Serf

[Irving]

I think those okay with paying more taxes are trying to say that they would be okay with paying teachers more. Since taxes is how teachers are paid, they're saying they'd pay more taxes. If there was a different way to pay teachers, I'd think those same people would be willing to pay a bit more in that way.

I just ordered a Yeti for my kid's gym teacher so he can keep the bottled water cold during the 30 minute gym period.

[Gman]

I just ordered a Yeti for my kid's gym teacher so he can keep the bottled water cold during the 30 minute gym period.
https://media1.tenor.com/images/fddffcc0d54fb9a6e8546f3217e49019/tenor.gif?itemid=5765581

[MrPrena]

If I was a superintendent, I would definitely go visit all major state universities and encourage class of 18' to apply.

I remember my former workplace engineers complaint about how low they get paid. I put an ad and went to CU and CSM for recent grad for Jr positions. We got a lot of response at that time, and we ended up saving labor cost.

We also ended up giving raise to few who stayed for him for training newbs.

I really don't care you came from Pfizer,DuPont,Intel,microsot, amazon, Qualcomm, Caltech, management will find a replacement in a heart beat.

If you try to pull that walkout crap, I will call temp agencies and temporary fill all the position and have management/partners to even president to train every single one of them.

:)

Edit: this was 2005 to 2009 so job was little more scarce than now.

[CoGirl303]

http://www.9news.com/mobile/article/news/where-does-all-that-colorado-pot-tax-go/298554132

Well this explain quite a bit. All those "annually projected billions from taxation" when this proposal to legalize mj came about years ago, never materialized.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ben4372]

They're protesting TABOR too since that is a major pain in their ass. They want to bankrupt you for the children. It's for the children.. [sheepshagger]
Why should they have a budget? I don't. I do remember when I was in high school, a teacher bought a $7000 (early 90's dollars) computer as her budget was use it or loose it.

I know that most people in the trades spend far more on tools and other things to make the job happen. I'm sure a master tech would love to get by with a couple hundred in tools a year. We should import the glut of teachers from Canada. This Doc talks about higher ed cost, and specifically a bunch of unemployed teachers that have to work shit jobs because they cant get work in schools. https://www.amazon.com/Generation-Jobless-Various/dp/B06XWZ98HL

[DavieD55]

http://www.9news.com/mobile/article/news/where-does-all-that-colorado-pot-tax-go/298554132

Well this explain quite a bit. All those "annually projected billions from taxation" when this proposal to legalize mj came about years ago, never materialized.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


But it's for the children. [LOL]

[roberth]

*short rant* One thing I think absolutely needs to be addressed asap is switching pensions from defined benefit to defined contribution (for all public employees, not just teachers). That will begin the process of stopping a lot of the bleeding. *end short rant*


I agree.

Seconded.

[Joe_K]

While I generally agree, have you ever had a union job, or been a teacher?

Union job? Yes - currently.

Teacher? No. My Mother is one however.

Why does that matter?


“Don’t go slow, be careful” Jedi

[DavieD55]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQcWyGWlvXY

[Joe_K]

BIIIIGGGG difference here though - they're not walking out, they are using personal days or are being docked pay, just like taking time off from any other job for which you have the flexibility to do so. The fact that the districts cannot summon enough backup to cover their obligations is not the teachers' fault, unless you want to argue that people cannot use their personal paid time off in the manner they see fit. What they or you choose to do with that time is a lawful right as a citizen. Even more so, a lot of teachers in CO are not in any union, so be very cautious in grouping them together with a conglomerate that you distain.

The fact that they are able to generate enough momentum and agreement to organize folks to do so on the same day should be examined, regardless of your opinion of the matter that is motivating them.

Touche’, I did not know they were all using P/S days, although at my job if above a certain percentage of employees call off on one day, it is considered a strike and all but those with legitimate medical issues will be terminated.


“Don’t go slow, be careful” Jedi

[Irving]

I've never done either. I figure every single job ever has something to complain about.

[hollohas]

Yeah, it's only ever about "better funding". This happens time and time again. It doesn't matter how much funding we give...it's never going to be enough.

Notice the pinko commie fists on the signs? These aren't the people I want to give more funding to so they can continue to indoctrinate masses of children with those values. And this picture comes from a very conservative district.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180428/e1427937e7b45373a3ed534aedd6c416.jpg

[OtterbatHellcat]

I've never done either. I figure every single job ever has something to complain about.

That...isn't the only thing you're right about, Sir. IMO.

[davsel]

I find it hilarious that a ton of people on this thread are all about even more forced income theft (read: taxes) for a pet cause, so long as it really goes to said cause. But I bet they bitched and moaned and blah blah blah when Obamacare passed. There is NO DIFFERENCE in the socialism of public education and public healthcare. Neither are owed to anyone at the gun-to-head expense of another, and neither are necessary in a public capacity, as they do not fall within the actual purview of the Federal, State, or Local government except as usurped by said levels from the family.

What public school ultimately is, is a glorified babysitting service so that people can pursue a lifestyle which is false in its necessity, a la both parents working. And then they go out and get themselves in insane amounts of debt trying to constantly maintain an artificially luxurious lifestyle, because they've been given the time-credit to do so by the lender of the government-at-large; the interest is your child's mind, and you will never be able to pay it off, ever. It's also a method of bringing in an entire generation year after year to poison their minds with progressively dangerous ideas. I see it as no different than a pedophile offering to babysit for $5 a week. Obviously, he's up to something. Do we really believe the government and those who run it is really that magnanimous? Get real.

I grant that there are indeed situations where both parents might need to work, but they are rare.

If people want to send their kids off to the contra-education camps, fine. But why make anyone else pay for it? If it's so damn important, make the sacrifice and pay! Then we'll see how important it is and how unnecessary all the other fluff of life is.

High school graduates today cannot hold an electric candle to the 8th graders of the early 1900's. Why are we paying more for less output? Why are we paying at all? Why is socialism in a form which is accepted by society not recognized as such? Why is it that we only hem, haw, and have hackles raised when it's a merely new-to-us application of it? Why is this form of socialism acceptable, but ensuring someone doesn't die early is wrong?

Here are the thoughts of John Taylor Gatto, in his speech given in 1990 when accepting the New York City Teacher of the Year award. It's scathing...:

http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/john_gatto.html

LIKE

[cstone]

Thank you for sharing the Gatto piece. He is well known within the homeschooling community.

I am happy for my family that we are no longer engaged with government schools, although one of my kids works for a state university. So much of our public taxpayer funding goes toward maintaining the bureaucracy which doesn't help anyone but those at the top of the pyramid and the politicians who get kick backs from the unions.

Everyone is learning and anyone who teaches you something is a teacher. Not everything you learn is useful or good. The day you stop learning is the day you stop breathing.

Be safe.

[ben4372]

I think this might be a scared industry throwing a Hail Mary. There is so much real learning to be had for far less money. I've been to trade seminars that are actually taught by people in the business. Many online courses that teach what your interested in, My kids are young and I go back and forth on if I want them to go to college. One could do a lot of non-conventional learning, or get a big head start on life with $120-160,000. I'm not saying teacher are the same as typewriter repair persons. I'm not the right person to teach kids so I do need teachers for now. My experience is the more seasoned teachers seem to be motivated by something less monetary. I think this is going to backfire on them.

[ColoradoTJ]

The legislature does not determine salary; that is a local school board decision. The protest is about the possibility of them paying an additional 3% into their retirement as part of trying to right the upside down boat of their division of PERA as well as raising the retirement age to 60. Too many retirees and not enough people working and contributing is the main problem. You want to continue with a defined benefit program instead of a 401(k), then you need to have more skin in it. State employees had to, so can the teachers. They also want to raise awareness for Initiative 93 which would tax people who make $150k a year or more and businesses in order to add money to a fund for the schools.

Totally agree with your statement. I’m in PERA and totally support increasing contributions. I want a retirement when it’s needed.

[00tec]

I just saw a camera shot that indicated that they used taxpayer dollars to take school busses to their strike.....

[ColoradoTJ]

If a bunch of millionaire asshole sports players can strike for MLB, NFL, NBA and NHL...so can teachers.

I'm absolutely disgusted by that Republican Senate asshole here in our legislator who was trying to pass a bill to put teachers who strike in jail. It's a direct violation of their 1st Amendment rights to demonstrate, protest, assemble and their right to redress for griveances against the government.




It's not just about their pay. It's also about their pensions and the school budgets.

Many teachers have to pay for their own supplies for their classes.

When you add in the cost of living here, these teachers are grossly underpaid. Colorado ranks 31st in terms of pay.

Even further adding to the argument, when marijuana was legalized here, Education, schools and teachers were supposed to be seeing a lot of that money...they aren't getting anywhere near what they were promised, but that's no surprise really! So was our infrastructure (roads, road repairs, improved utilities, etc) but that's a topic for another discussion. Just another example of big government promising things and failing to follow through as usual and the teachers are the ones paying the price.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180427/9eab87751aeefff01b2850a1781dfd7d.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree with some of this.

So you would be cool with federal and state prison guards striking and walking off the job? How about working for weeks without pay until the budget is passed?

The next time I’m feeling disgruntled at work, I’m just going to shut down the power grid to my city. That would be cool right?


I personally think teachers are a bit underpaid. Until all of you have volunteered in a classroom for a few days (sure some of you have) and see what conditions they work in, one might change their tune on this topic.

My kids go to the highest performing public school district in Colorado Springs. Oddly enough, they spend the least amount per student. Unfortunately we moved, and after this school year is up, they will be going to the second highest performing public school district since commuting 60 miles to drop kids off every day is just not financially smart.

Mostly, the parents pay for the school supplies, not the teachers. Every year I have a laundry list that adds up to ~100.00 each in supplies for school. That’s about 1800.00 per classroom for supplies. That’s a lot of pencils and paper.

I’m in PERA, and we should pay more for the retirement. It’s not fully funded. Not sure why someone wouldn’t want to ensure they actually have one after 30 years of work.

[MrPrena]

Is this going to be ongoing thing every week? I try to look for it online, and I could not find any info as of last night.

If it is going to be ongoing, I am going to plan something with my kid.

[ColoradoTJ]

Is this going to be ongoing thing every week? I try to look for it online, and I could not find any info as of last night.

If it is going to be ongoing, I am going to plan something with my kid.

Wouldn’t doubt it. A lot of school districts are pushing 4 day school weeks.

[davsel]

https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=233424



The Lie Factory On Education and Teacher Salaries

The latest screamfest from the various teacher's groups is that they're "grossly underpaid."

Well, no.

First, let's not forget that teachers are paid for 12 months but work 9. Indeed the "standard" school year is 180 days. The standard man-year of work is 2,000 hours -- 40 hours across 50 weeks.

But 180 days is 1,440 hours, not 2,000, or 72% of a standard work-year.

And before you talk about "overtime" do realize that professionals don't get paid overtime. I never did as a professional writing code or building networks for other people. It's a professional job, and is exempt -- just as is being a teacher.

So that "horrible" $40,000 salary (which, I remind you, typically comes with 100% health care coverage for the entire teacher's family, an expense that is nearly always over $10,000/year) is actually $50,000 / 0.72 or approximately $70,000 in salary.

That's underpaid?

Uh, no. It's grossly overpaid, especially considering this:


Earlier this month, the 2017 National Assessment of Educational Progress, aka The Nation's Report Card, was released. It's not a pretty story. Only 37 percent of 12th-graders tested proficient or better in reading, and only 25 percent did so in math. Among black students, only 17 percent tested proficient or better in reading, and just 7 percent reached at least a proficient level in math.

Leave the racial disparity behind for a minute.

Exactly why would anyone get paid anything if only one quarter of those who were the "product" of that work met the objective requirements to be considered acceptable?

Why is not that the question put to these "teachers"?

Is there some "reject rate" acceptable in any production of anything? Certainly. Some percentage of parts made in a factory fail to pass inspection, some percentage of wafers in a fab don't make it into the final output as a computer chip, etc.

But if your success rate is only 25% on the basic facts that define the ability to function as an adult in society, say much less understand the physical and economic world around you then you have no right to be out pounding the street demanding more money.

You ought to be cleaning toilets with a toothbrush and the taxpayers should be taking up arms at the rank theft you demand from them to produce defective output on an everyday, every year basis -- and have been for decades.

This is not a new problem. When I ran MCSNet after a series of bad experiences with so-called "graduates" with nice, polished resumes who couldn't make change for a $20 without a computer telling them exactly how much it was it became obvious that (1) they didn't write their own resume and (2) they were functionally illiterate and innumerate.

Yet they had in their hand a credential that said they (1) could read and write and (2) could perform mathematics both at a 12th grade level.

Those credentials were lies.

I instituted two tests before you could get an interview; when you came in and presented a resume you were shown the conference room and given a pencil, piece of paper and the two tests; nothing else was allowed inside. The first was a request to write a basic business letter informing a customer that his account was disabled because he hadn't paid his bill, and to please remit the balance to continue service. The second was a four-function (addition, subtraction, multiplication and division) mathematics screening with 20 questions on it. You needed a 90% on the math to pass and the letter had to be grammatically correct and formatted as a reasonable business letter.

90% of the applicants failed one or both and more than half failed screamingly, either being completely unable to compose a business letter that could be read and understood as reasonably correct English or failing to get even half of the math correct. More than a few applicants literally walked out leaving behind two blank pieces of paper for "answers", unable to do any of it. A couple actually wrote things like "**** you" on the test before walking out, clearly unable to do any of it.

Most-alarmingly was the fact that more than a third of those who claimed to be currently enrolled in college, including at UofC, applying for a part-time job while in school, were unable to pass these screens.

I kept every single test and associated resume in a large horizontal file for what I expected would eventually be an inevitable allegation that I was "discriminating" in some form or fashion. This was downtown (2 Prudential Plaza) Chicago. Let me point out that of those who were unable to write said business letter not one of them could have possibly also written their own resume and as such they had already lied in the application process (and thus were not going to get hired) before coming in the front door.

The enabling liars who issued these people their diplomas are the same people pounding the streets right now. They were the ones who gave out the "As", "Bs", "Cs" and even "Ds" to these students -- but passed them instead of handing out well-deserved "F"s for years from one class to the next without actual achievement having taken place.

These very same teachers are openly and publicly being paid to commit fraud upon the taxpayer and the US marketplace on a literal daily basis. Three quarters of those who they deem "competent" through a 12 year cycle of fraud are in fact not competent and this number includes high-achieving areas.

In most major cities I assure you that the actual percentage of incompetent "graduates" is at or above 90% because it was in the 1990s and this report's statistics make clear that it still is.

Think about this folks because everyone's excuse is that oh, there are a few bad teachers, but most are good.

What are the odds of someone getting through 12 years of schooling, the first six or so taking place with one or two teachers for the entire year, then in the subsequent six year or so with a half-dozen teachers each, 75% of said students are incompetent when they graduate, and it is not true that basically every single one of them is guilty of fraud?

Let's put some math to it -- if three out of four students are incompetent at graduation then with a single teacher for a single year a minimum of 75% of all teachers must be committing fraud by certifying acceptable performance when it is not true.

That is, only 25% are performing honest work with a single year of experience -- that is, a single trial.

But it's not one year. It's 12 years, and for roughly six of them the student has a half-dozen teachers each year, not one. So we have 6 instances in the first six years and then 36 more over the following six, for a total of 42 instances, any one of which could fail said student and prevent them from going forward.

What are the statistical odds of running that gauntlet where only 25% of the teachers do honest work against 42 trials?

The answer is in scientific notation and has 25 zeros to right of the decimal. To put not-to-fine a point on it you're more likely to be hit by an asteroid while getting your mail this afternoon, then struck by lightning on the walk back to your house by a factor of several orders of magnitude than to encounter a string of honest teachers given these rates.

Bluntly: Essentially all are guilty of fraud upon the taxpayer and the public.

This is one of the largest and longest-running frauds perpetrated against the American population and taxpaying citizen ever and anyone in this profession deserves to be consumed by a rabid coyote.

Not only should every one of these "teachers" be fired they should all be criminally prosecuted and tossed in prison; the United States would be better off if the kids of this nation spent an hour a day in the library doing whatever they wanted instead of attending school.

[CS1983]

D60 is closed Monday:
http://www.kktv.com/content/news/D60-offers-cost-of-living-raise-one-time-raise-for-2018-2019-school-year-481677361.html