All Things Educational

[TheGrey]

Irving's thread about the liberal arts degrees was really interesting- lots of viewpoints.

I'd like to expand on the topic, and I invite your opinion on all things educational.

Do you want a degree? What kind, and why? Do you like to attend classes, whether your career needs them or not? What's your favorite subject, and why? Do you continue studies on your own time? Do you have memories of a favorite teacher you'd like to share? Are you seeking a class on a particular subject?

What about those among us that are parents: tell us about the differences you notice among the subjects they are now teaching your children. Is there a subject yu feel they should still be teaching your children? Are the teachers still as you remember them in grade school, middle school, high school? Do you find yourself supplementing your child's education? Do we have any homeschoolers here? Tell us what that's like.

[Irving]

I always felt like the kids that cut classes were really the ones that should have been there, while the kids that didn't cut class could probably miss a few classes a week and still be fine.

[clodhopper]

0-12: Too much social science embedded in all classes, much with a left slant. Fortunately, my sons recognize most of it and have learned to regurgitate it back to the teach to make them happy. Need more focused civics to teach the kids how the country works.

12+: Too many people going to college for useless degrees that provide no career opportunity, only to later complain about all the debt they agreed to rack up. Not enough guidance from parents/counselors/whoever explaining to kids that college is an investment in the future and if the degree wont turn into a career to pay back the investment and better your future, pick a different major. Stop frikken encouraging kids to "pursue their dreams" or whatnot. Very very few people end up working in a job they love.... they are the exception, and usually are doing so at a low wage. Wanna get paid well? Pick a job you can tolerate and no one likes to do, then get really good at it. It is called "work", if it was fun to do everyday, it would have another name.

[Vic Tory]

Irving's thread about the liberal arts degrees was really interesting- lots of viewpoints.
I'll have to check that one out. But for this discussion....


I'd like to expand on the topic, and I invite your opinion on all things educational.

Do you want a degree? What kind, and why? Do you like to attend classes, whether your career needs them or not? What's your favorite subject, and why? Do you continue studies on your own time? Do you have memories of a favorite teacher you'd like to share? Are you seeking a class on a particular subject? Good questions for kids considering college. Here are some more....

Do your interests and passions center on areas taught in Trade Schools versus colleges? Cooks, plumbers, carpenters, electricians, mechanics, etc. will ALWAYS be able to find gainful employment.

If you are unsure of "just going to college because your friends are," have you considered going straight into the workforce for a year or two? Make some money. Grow up. Learn more about your lasting interests and passions. THEN maybe you'll realize college is (or isn't) for you.... (Dennis Prager notes how young people who do this are MUCH better prepared for college. They've actually experienced "the real world" more than most of their professors. They are less gullible and less influenced by the Leftism rampant in American colleges.)

Peter Drucker says (paraphrasing) most people don't know what their strengths are. (He's right.) He also points out more people know their weaknesses better than their strengths -- but adds that most of the time those people are wrong about THOSE, too(!). [Gasp!]

Don't be alarmed. There are personality profiles which can help you figure out your strengths and weaknesses. Even the ubiquitous DiSC tools are more helpful than blind shooting to determine your next courses of action. (Don't bank on Myers-Briggs. That tool is the best marketed survey out there ... and it isn't valid. Sorry, but this is what I do for a living. Ask me why if you want to know more....) Prevue, QMQ, Assess, Caliper, ProfileXT, etc. are all good tools to help you figure out more about how you're wired.


What about those among us that are parents: tell us about the differences you notice among the subjects they are now teaching your children. Is there a subject yu feel they should still be teaching your children? Are the teachers still as you remember them in grade school, middle school, high school? Do you find yourself supplementing your child's education? Do we have any homeschoolers here? Tell us what that's like.
I am a grandparent -- and a high school coach. So I see this from two perspectives.

I'm astounded at how government school teachers are brainwashed that they are producing "critical thinkers," when they are not. But they truly believe they ARE.

Government education is actually indoctrination ... in Leftism. I coached in an [Get ready to "Ooh!" and "Aahhh!"] International Baccalaureate school for 13 years. What a Teachers Union stroke of genius marketing that labeling was! Those teachers and kids are told they are the best of the best. (They are not.)

These last 4 years I've coached at a Christian school. These kids are told to work their butts off and most of them do.

I'm headed into a full-blown rant, so I'd better stop. If you want to know more, ask.

[beast556]

I hated school from the get go, always failed because I would not do homework. Only subjects I found interesting were math and ww1&2 history. I only made it to 10th grade and dropped out and got a full time job. Went and got a ged when I was 18. I've had a job since I was 12 years old and school just seemed like a waste of time to me.

[CS1983]

I desire to read your rant. Please continue.

[Ah Pook]

I hated high school. Barely graduated. Wood shop was about the only thing that interested me.

College taught me a lot. How to write, use punctuation, proper tense... Also learned math. You know, stuff that should have learned in high school. Probably the most useful skill I developed was research. This was before the interwebz. Library books and periodicals, magazines, interviewing pople... Went in for a business degree but hated the school of business. Ended up with the closest thing to a business degree from the school of communications. I'd say I don't use what was learned in the college curriculum but I did learn the process. Oh and I worked my way through college.

Looking back, I would should have picked up a trade to fall back on.

I know of several home schoolers. I get it but most of the kids I see need public school too. Teach what you want in the evenings and on weekends.

I am a big fan of Mike Rowe's philosophy that not everyone needs to go to college.

[StagLefty]

I worked in the trades all my life and made a reasonable living. The only regret I have is that I didn't pick a trade to be licensed in.Mike Rowe is my hero !!!

[Hummer]

I can't speak much about modern education, although I'm impressed with the home schooling groups and 4-H people I've worked with. I'm sort of a jack of all trades with experience in many fields including construction and horticulture. Post college I've gone my own way and am mostly self-taught. In the past I have taught the martial arts and as a shooting coach. Mostly I've been teaching ornithology for 30 years and am a certified trainer in a somewhat obscure field. I've guided thousands of people to see birds and other wildlife and I do volunteer work for the sheriff and the state wildlife agency. But to teach it's important to learn from other teachers so I take a few classes most every year. I still haven't mastered fluent Spanish and probably never will. But I'm getting to the point in teaching where I've been there, done that. It's easier to share with others via internet forums....

My focus now is to continue improving our homes, making life comfortable, contributing to science by publishing, and learning more about the world and people through travel. Education comes in many forms and can keep you alive and growing.

[wctriumph]

I don't have a "degree" from a university. However, it seems that most of the jobs I am chasing are requiring a BS in business or related work experience. I find that this disqualifies in some instances. If I get this new job I am chasing right now I will take online courses and finish the degree.

[TheGrey]

I'll have to check that one out. But for this discussion....

Good questions for kids considering college. Here are some more....

Do your interests and passions center on areas taught in Trade Schools versus colleges? Cooks, plumbers, carpenters, electricians, mechanics, etc. will ALWAYS be able to find gainful employment.

If you are unsure of "just going to college because your friends are," have you considered going straight into the workforce for a year or two? Make some money. Grow up. Learn more about your lasting interests and passions. THEN maybe you'll realize college is (or isn't) for you.... (Dennis Prager notes how young people who do this are MUCH better prepared for college. They've actually experienced "the real world" more than most of their professors. They are less gullible and less influenced by the Leftism rampant in American colleges.)

Peter Drucker says (paraphrasing) most people don't know what their strengths are. (He's right.) He also points out more people know their weaknesses better than their strengths -- but adds that most of the time those people are wrong about THOSE, too(!). [Gasp!]

Don't be alarmed. There are personality profiles which can help you figure out your strengths and weaknesses. Even the ubiquitous DiSC tools are more helpful than blind shooting to determine your next courses of action. (Don't bank on Myers-Briggs. That tool is the best marketed survey out there ... and it isn't valid. Sorry, but this is what I do for a living. Ask me why if you want to know more....) Prevue, QMQ, Assess, Caliper, ProfileXT, etc. are all good tools to help you figure out more about how you're wired.


I am a grandparent -- and a high school coach. So I see this from two perspectives.

I'm astounded at how government school teachers are brainwashed that they are producing "critical thinkers," when they are not. But they truly believe they ARE.

Government education is actually indoctrination ... in Leftism. I coached in an [Get ready to "Ooh!" and "Aahhh!"] International Baccalaureate school for 13 years. What a Teachers Union stroke of genius marketing that labeling was! Those teachers and kids are told they are the best of the best. (They are not.)

These last 4 years I've coached at a Christian school. These kids are told to work their butts off and most of them do.

I'm headed into a full-blown rant, so I'd better stop. If you want to know more, ask.

Please continue- I'm interested, and so is CavSct1983.

I am also interested in hearing more about how Myers-Briggs is invalid, and what some of the other tests are. I don't recognize any of them!

[Gman]

Inquiring minds want to know. Please share.

[TheGrey]

I have no use for college now that I have learned everything there is to know, and the answer is 42.

[Sarcasm2]

[ROFL1]

[Honey Badger282.8]

I'm 29 and starting my second year of college and work as a tutor in the campus writing center, and in my opinion, education is one of those things where an individual gets what they give. If the kid is just doing the minimum to get a degree, he will likely view college with some contempt and deem it "useless." I've seen many kids that are in college because that's what has been beaten into their heads by mentors, teachers, counselors, and parents. College isn't for everyone but it also isn't something to be derided. For a college education to be truly meaningful the individual should be internally motivated as opposed to externally motivated. Those that are internally motivated will find creative ways to work within assignment guidelines, even when they disagree with the content. Quite a few of the younger students expect everything to be spoonfed to them, but on the other side of the proverbial coin, I've seen many of the older students (those that have real-world experience) expect the same thing, albeit to a lesser extent. I think that obtaining a degree has become more important than being educated.

At the K-12 level, I think the No Child Left Behind Act really did a number on education in America (teaching to the test, elimination of everything but core subjects, holding teacher responsible for bad parenting, etc.), but I am cautiously optimistic about the Every Student Succeeds Act. It's a step in the right direction and encourages states to adopt a more well-rounded idea of teaching by focusing on subjects other than reading, writing, and arithmetic.

[Vic Tory]

I'll start with TheGrey's 2nd question. Some education in these personality / psychometric surveys is in order.

Two technical terms are key to the effectiveness of these kinds of surveys: Reliability and Validity.
Reliability is a measure of ... repeatability. If "Joe" scores the same in six weeks, or six months, the tool is probably Reliable. To be scientifically considered to be so, its Reliability score should be at least .70. If a survey is not Reliable, it cannot be Valid.

Validity is an expression of whether or not the measured characteristics actually do measure what the tool claims. (Is a score on Sociability actually measuring that characteristic? Or is it measuring Gregariousness? Extroversion? Something else?)

The Myers-Briggs (MBTI) folks are cagey about reporting on their Reliability. When pressed they will say something like, "In 3/4 of our scales we are Reliable 75% of the time." So what we do is multiply .75 x .75 = .5625 to determine the MBTI's actual Reliability is .56 ... which is barely better than a coin flip.

The strange part is the origin of the MBTI. I cannot remember who was who, but Mom (Let's call her Briggs.) and Daughter (Myers) wanted to figure out why the daughter's husband was so strange an animal to the two of them. So they developed this tool called Myers-Briggs. The trouble is, neither of them knew what they were doing.

Somehow the MBTI did in the 1970s what today we'd call "going viral." Some corporate types liked being able to put employees in boxes. They started using it. Some companies even had the name plates on managers' offices read "Joe Brown, ENTJ."


DiSC
Many of you have heard of DiSC. I'll bet some of you have actually done them.

Have you done the survey at church with Golden Retriever, Beaver, Otter, Lion labels? That's just DiSC, relabeled. Red, Yellow, Green Blue? Yup. Many of the 4-factor personality surveys you've heard of are really DiSC tools.

William Marston (Yes, the creator of Wonder Woman.) is credited with "inventing" or "developing" DiSC in the late 1920s. But the truth is, he borrowed it from an assistant to Hippocrates. Yes. DiSC is that old! Hippocrates' assistant labeled people as Choleric, Melancholy, Phlegmatic or Sanguine. Marston simply reformatted something which was centuries old. Since nobody *used* terms like Choleric, Melancholy, Phlegmatic or Sanguine anymore Marston changed them to
Dominance (D), Inducement (I), Submission (S), and Compliance (C). After a few decades of tweaking most DiSC tools use terms like Dominance, Influence, Steadiness and Compliance.

There are over 3,500 different versions of DiSC surveys on the market. They range from FREE -- to about $85 a piece. Many of them are actually good; most are in the "You get what you pay for" category.

DiSC surveys are great for getting a sense of how someone ... responds to stress ... likes to be motivated ... and gets along with co-workers. DiSC should never be used for hiring. In fact, any good DiSC Technical Manual states NOT to use it for hiring. That doesn't stop a lot of employers from using DiSC for hiring. (Too bad. Interviewing increases stress, which will give employers false readings of how an applicant really does handle normal stress....)

More later ... if you want.

[Honey Badger282.8]

Vic Troy, do you have any experience with Clifton Strengths?

[MrPrena]

Irving's thread about the liberal arts degrees was really interesting- lots of viewpoints.

I'd like to expand on the topic, and I invite your opinion on all things educational.

Do you want a degree? What kind, and why? Do you like to attend classes, whether your career needs them or not? What's your favorite subject, and why? Do you continue studies on your own time? Do you have memories of a favorite teacher you'd like to share? Are you seeking a class on a particular subject?

What about those among us that are parents: tell us about the differences you notice among the subjects they are now teaching your children. Is there a subject yu feel they should still be teaching your children? Are the teachers still as you remember them in grade school, middle school, high school? Do you find yourself supplementing your child's education? Do we have any homeschoolers here? Tell us what that's like.

Sure, i want to go to school. I just don't want to go through that 4-8+years (depends on what you're studying) of financial hardship again. When i was in school, the tuition was about 15% of what it costs now. Paying ~667% of what I paid back then plus paying bills etc would is too crazy. Now, IF i had lots of $$$ in hand, I would make appointment with 3 major school dept head this week. I DO HAVE TIME, but I don't want to get a loan or drop 250k+ on edumacation (degree of choosing).

[SAnd]

I graduated from a local two year vocational school course after high school. There were about 18 to 25 people in each class. So I had experience with 3 groups going through the course while I was there. So what I have to say is based on that very limited group of people. Also I graduated in 1974.

Getting to the point. Half the people came out of two years of college. In other words it took 2 years of college for them to figure out what they wanted to do. Fortunately there was the vocational school system there for them. I don't know if there is anything like vocational schools anymore. The year after I graduated all the vocational schools became Technical Institutes.

[Ah Pook]

Please continue- I'm interested, and so is CavSct1983.

I am also interested in hearing more about how Myers-Briggs is invalid, and what some of the other tests are. I don't recognize any of them!

I have taken the MB test about four times in my life. Every result was different.

[TheGrey]

I have taken the MB test about four times in my life. Every result was different.

See, I've taken it four times at different times in my life, and they all had the same result. Weird!

[hobowh]

I've taken the MB several times myself and it has always varied slightly, but I've always been a square... oh that's a different test...

[Eric P]

I got an engineering degree from CSM. I breezed through high school math & science, struggled in English and arts. Just didn't care to look at a picture or listen to music for any other reason than to enjoy it. Didn't care about hidden messages or meaning.

Dont know if I have ADD or not, but I can't read for fun. After a few pages, I'm lost as to what's going on, since I had already forgotten who was who. Movies are completely different. I can never remember peoples names in real life, but know them from their face. Sometimes a problem.

Engineering (math & science) came easy as I could figure out how things worked and solve problems. Still do.

I tried helping my 5th grade nefew with a math assignment and was completely lost in the methods he was taught to use. Showed him the way I learned, and he said my way made more sense.

Learned basic welding for a bridge class. Learned basic mechanics and carpentry from my dad and trade classes in HS.

I'm stuck in an office now. Troubleshooting others work and supervising younger engineers. One thing I have noticed is the constant need for validation. They dont like failure at all. I let them fail to learn why. They also dont like working alone. I loved working alone, probably because I worked with so many freeloaders riding my coat tails. I even had a clueless boss who had me respond to enquiries and then cut and paste and take credit. That ended when I caught on and sent a response that was nonsense and horribly written with many misspellings. He didt review it before cut & pasting with his name. CCed me in the response and I responded all with the correct answer.

There are times i wish i didn't get into engineering and became an equipment operator. That looks fun digging, drilling or demoing. Demoing looks especially fun.

[electronman1729]

Irving's thread about the liberal arts degrees was really interesting- lots of viewpoints.

I'd like to expand on the topic, and I invite your opinion on all things educational.

Do you want a degree? What kind, and why? Do you like to attend classes, whether your career needs them or not? What's your favorite subject, and why? Do you continue studies on your own time? Do you have memories of a favorite teacher you'd like to share? Are you seeking a class on a particular subject?

What about those among us that are parents: tell us about the differences you notice among the subjects they are now teaching your children. Is there a subject yu feel they should still be teaching your children? Are the teachers still as you remember them in grade school, middle school, high school? Do you find yourself supplementing your child's education? Do we have any homeschoolers here? Tell us what that's like.

Do you want a degree? Yes, wanted a degree as my high school teachers always told me I couldn't make it through college.


What kind, and why? Electrical Engineering, conferred (Physics and Mathematics both non-conferred degree as I did not want to pay the additional fee's) it sounded fun, and was a pathway to making lots of money.


Do you like to attend classes, whether your career needs them or not? Yes and No. The classes that applied to degree were alight, what I realized after graduation is I didn't learn anything after all once I started my carrer. Humanities classes were a waste of money and air.


What's your favorite subject, and why? Solid State physics, I got to apply quantum mechanics and ended up fabrication my own silicon wafer microchips


Do you continue studies on your own time? Yes, send too much time reading the national electric code which was never taught in college as it applies a lot to my line of work.


Do you have memories of a favorite teacher you'd like to share? A professor who was originally from a village in Germany that I grew up not too far from.


Are you seeking a class on a particular subject? Hopefully not anytime soon.

[hobowh]

As far as Education goes I hated every minute of it, still do. I would rather read the material and learn it on my own, than sit in a class room. I went to 5 different colleges before deciding the degrees were not worth it. I never actually finished any of them, and only need a few credit hours to finish... I will not be going back to finish them as there is no point. I have worked in several areas throughout the years, and the lack of a degree never held me back. I do occasionally have to sit through classes for work, but they are 2 weeks or less and provide some certification that I will never use outside of the office, and I still hate doing it.

The classes I want to take are things like Design and build, and Post and beam construction like the ones give by the shelter institute in Maine http://www.shelterinstitute.com/classes
I also look forward to taking some classes with Frontsight, Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, and Magpul. As funds and time permit.

[Vic Tory]

Vic Troy, do you have any experience with Clifton Strengths?

Yes. Strength Finder is another good survey.

[Vic Tory]

See, I've taken it four times at different times in my life, and they all had the same result. Weird!

If you are a set of four relatively "pure" characteristics, you will score the same on MBTI. My best friend swears by that dumb tool because of this dynamic occurring in his case. (Drives me nuts!)

[JohnnyEgo]

Got my Bachelors in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science. Worked a specific niche of it for a while, took a very different job with a soul-less mega corp and never looked back. Best thing about the degrees were the way they reframed my outlook on structured analysis and problem solving. And the intrinsic understanding of math that was beaten into me has been very useful as well. I sometimes wish I had given up the dual majors track and minored in dance. I wouldn't have been any good at dance, but it would have cost less, the scenery would have been better, and the odds would definitely have been in my favor.

Organizational psychology is very big in the middle-management ranks where I work. We've taken countless MBTIs, done Strength Finders a half dozen times, and all sorts of other flavors of personality tests that were supposed to provide us with self-enlightenment and more effective relationships with our peers. And the truth is I find very little value in any of it. I have observed a certain class of folks who ascribe to what I call 'Management by Manual'. They thrive on Management 360°s, Harvard Business Reviews (the short ones that are 'leadership insight' focused, with few pages and lots of pull-quotes in large fonts), group MBTIs, and whatever pop org psychology is in vogue at the moment. These are the folks who need an external narrative to provide validation of their self-worth, and paper over that glittering sense of insecurity least the rank and file perceive weakness. I know of many great managers who find some value in these things as well, but I have never seen a manual or test turn a mediocre manager into a good one.

About the most interesting test I've ever taken is the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory, or MMPI, which was about a 600 question true-false test used to benchmark people to known mental disorders. It was a popular security clearance tool in the 90s. It's been a good few decades, but what I recall most is that me and the paranoids had a lot in common, with the schizophrenics being a surprisingly distant second. So I may be paranoid, but I am unlikely to be a paranoid schizophrenic. At least, that's what the voices in my head keep telling me.

[ben4372]

Vic Troy, do you have any experience with Clifton Strengths? It may help you if you are completely non self aware. I found it to be similar to a vague fortune teller. With a large side of up selling.

[Vic Tory]

Organizational psychology is very big in the middle-management ranks where I work. We've taken countless MBTIs, done Strength Finders a half dozen times, and all sorts of other flavors of personality tests that were supposed to provide us with self-enlightenment and more effective relationships with our peers. And the truth is I find very little value in any of it. I have observed a certain class of folks who ascribe to what I call 'Management by Manual'. They thrive on Management 360°s, Harvard Business Reviews (the short ones that are 'leadership insight' focused, with few pages and lots of pull-quotes in large fonts), group MBTIs, and whatever pop org psychology is in vogue at the moment. These are the folks who need an external narrative to provide validation of their self-worth, and paper over that glittering sense of insecurity least the rank and file perceive weakness. I know of many great managers who find some value in these things as well, but I have never seen a manual or test turn a mediocre manager into a good one.
These are all good points. It must be understood -- and all too often is not -- these surveys are merely tools. They give leadership additional data points which help develop good people into better people ... when they are used correctly.

The way I encourage my clients to use these tools is to AVOID promoting someone to management who will be mediocre. Because, as JohnnyEgo posts, no test can turn a mediocre manager into a good manager.

Nothing is, by itself, a Magic Bullet.


About the most interesting test I've ever taken is the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory, or MMPI, which was about a 600 question true-false test used to benchmark people to known mental disorders. It was a popular security clearance tool in the 90s. It's been a good few decades, but what I recall most is that me and the paranoids had a lot in common, with the schizophrenics being a surprisingly distant second. So I may be paranoid, but I am unlikely to be a paranoid schizophrenic. At least, that's what the voices in my head keep telling me.Oddly enough, the MMPI came under a LOT of criticism due to its constructs being manipulated. As I recall the MMPI was tweaked so it found more people to be abnormal than was true. It was a BIG stink in the industry.

[Scanker19]

75015

[Irving]

I thought that the point of the MMPI is that it couldn't be effectively manipulated, unless you practically wrote the test.

[Vic Tory]

I thought that the point of the MMPI is that it couldn't be effectively manipulated, unless you practically wrote the test.

That was my point. The MMPI authors were "pushing" the algorithms to discover more abnormalities than were factual.

[cstone]

That was my point. The MMPI authors were "pushing" the algorithms to discover more abnormalities than were factual.

That would explain those extra hours on the box. I was abnormal. [Flower]

[Vic Tory]

Another bizarre factoid: The Wonderlic test, used by the NFL, (at least used to have) built-in "adverse impact" (A fancy way of saying bias.) against ... ethnic minorities.

What is the ethnicity of the majority of players in the Not For Long...?

Sorry about this tangent. I'll try not to do that again.

[clodhopper]

I got an engineering degree from CSM. I breezed through high school math & science, struggled in English and arts. Just didn't care to look at a picture or listen to music for any other reason than to enjoy it. Didn't care about hidden messages or meaning.

Dont know if I have ADD or not, but I can't read for fun. After a few pages, I'm lost as to what's going on, since I had already forgotten who was who. Movies are completely different. I can never remember peoples names in real life, but know them from their face. Sometimes a problem.

Engineering (math & science) came easy as I could figure out how things worked and solve problems. Still do.

I tried helping my 5th grade nefew with a math assignment and was completely lost in the methods he was taught to use. Showed him the way I learned, and he said my way made more sense.

Learned basic welding for a bridge class. Learned basic mechanics and carpentry from my dad and trade classes in HS.

I'm stuck in an office now. Troubleshooting others work and supervising younger engineers. One thing I have noticed is the constant need for validation. They dont like failure at all. I let them fail to learn why. They also dont like working alone. I loved working alone, probably because I worked with so many freeloaders riding my coat tails. I even had a clueless boss who had me respond to enquiries and then cut and paste and take credit. That ended when I caught on and sent a response that was nonsense and horribly written with many misspellings. He didt review it before cut & pasting with his name. CCed me in the response and I responded all with the correct answer.

There are times i wish i didn't get into engineering and became an equipment operator. That looks fun digging, drilling or demoing. Demoing looks especially fun.

You and I must be twins separated at birth.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Do you want a degree? What kind, and why?

I have a B.S.E. in computer science and engineering and a M.S. in applied physics plus practical systems engineering knowledge from my career. I decided a while back that while my ego wanted a doctorate, pursuing one was a waste of time and money.


Do you like to attend classes, whether your career needs them or not?
I like classes if they are germane to helping me solve problems. I hate taking something just to check a box.


What's your favorite subject, and why?
No real "favorite" subject as I'm interested in a wide variety of things from military history to constitutional law to basic science to applied engineering and science to literature to ...


Do you continue studies on your own time?
I read a lot on my own time, I don't know that you'd call it studying. I tend to be somewhat of an omnivore academically and am not disciplined enough to stick with just one subject enough to call it "study" -- yet another reason I decided not to pursue a doctorate.


Do you have memories of a favorite teacher you'd like to share? Are you seeking a class on a particular subject?
Lots of great teachers over the years. My Biology teacher in high school outlined theories of creation from Biblical to spontaneous creation to natural selection then said that students were free to believe in Biblical theories but that we wouldn't spend any more time on them because we couldn't test them scientifically. A computer engineering prof gave us a Poet's Guide to Digital Circuitry on day 1 then proceeded to tax us mentally by giving us homework involving trinary logic.

Afraid I'm not a parent so not qualified to answer the second set of questions although I have observed the homeworks and reasoning capabilities of my Boy Scouts over the years. It seems to me that subject matter is much more politically influenced these days. I was never impressed with instruction in "critical reasoning" even when I was in school but it seems even less prevalent today than it was 35 years ago. It seems like there's a lot more female teachers having sexual relations with male students today than there was when I was a kid -- can't talk to male teachers with female students although I'm sure there was some of that.

My sister and her husband go to great lengths to supplement their sons' education. It has paid off with one of the two but it's been a lot of work for them. They were a lot more involved in their sons' education than I remember my parents being in mine but that might be because I did fairly well anyway. I offered to help but their sons were more interested in me taking them shooting than quizzing them on math or science.

[MrPrena]

I have a B.S.E. in computer science and engineering and a M.S. in applied physics plus practical systems engineering knowledge from my career. .

It is extremely rare (only seen 1 out of ~600+) to see engineer or engineering grad studying phys/applied phys for masters. At least schools ive attended.
My guess is you studied a lot of phys and more math than engineering core requirement?

[Martinjmpr]

I was a liberal arts major (history) as an undergrad, since I had always been a history buff (dad being a historian and history professor probably helped.) Mom was a librarian so I always grew up in a house filled with books.

Never really took to math or science. When I got into college I took the absolute bare minimum of math (never got past algebra) and science (earth science, of course!) that I needed to graduate.

The funny thing is, within the past 4 years or so I've started reading a lot more history (I've always read but I read what I want to now, much more than I ever read when I was in school.) I've always been fascinated by the Cold War (being both a veteran and, in some ways, a product of it) that led me to reading about the history of the making of the Atomic Bomb.

Which, in turn, led me to read up on the history of the making of the hydrogen bomb, which in turn led me to start reading up on atomic physics, a subject I had absolutely ZERO interest in previously.

And now I find physics fascinating. I've literally spent hours on the internet looking up Wikipedia (and other sites) on the subject of atomic physics, watching YouTube video lectures, etc.

My biggest obstacle in studying physics is that I never took chemistry. If I had unlimited time I might try to audit some basic chemistry or physics courses. I sometimes wish there were "physics for dummies" courses I could audit. I guess I can probably find some on YouTube if I look.

Math still holds zero interest for me but I find physics to be amazing.

[Aloha_Shooter]

It is extremely rare (only seen 1 out of ~600+) to see engineer or engineering grad studying phys/applied phys for masters. At least schools ive attended.
My guess is you studied a lot of phys and more math than engineering core requirement?

Not really but the curriculum in the applied physics concentration was related to my career and my first couple of jobs gave me additional training that was relevant to the degree. In addition, I had always been interested in the general sciences so read quite a few articles in Scientific American (before they went politically correct), Timothy Ferris' books, etc. before taking the degree so much of the coursework became a matter of learning which formulas or mathematical techniques to apply in which circumstances. In retrospect, I was minimally prepared for the degree but I toughed it out and earned it the hard way. Applied physics is generally more applicable to hard engineering backgrounds IMO but I can see where theoretical physics would be a stretch with an engineering academic background. In addition, my alma mater taught engineering fields as "science and engineering" so you always had to have theory supporting the hard practical engineering and vice-versa.

[Aloha_Shooter]

My biggest obstacle in studying physics is that I never took chemistry. If I had unlimited time I might try to audit some basic chemistry or physics courses. I sometimes wish there were "physics for dummies" courses I could audit. I guess I can probably find some on YouTube if I look.

Look up the Feynman Lectures. CalTech just made them public (there's even an app for your phone). The books can be expensive and hard to find but you can find CDs of his lectures and videos on YouTube.

[Jonsey]

When I was in school I was slow in math and English to start out and just started catching up toward the end of highschool when I started feeling really rebelious to the strong liberal push. I felt history was not well presented, and civics was very weak. I now have a certificate in horse racing from a trade school and an AA degree. I used the horse racing certificate for several years and really enjoyed working in that industry, but it didn't make enough money and was a little health hazardous at times. College was a lot more interesting than highschool for me and I was able to catch up a little in my weaker subjects. I sort of feel that I wasted years of my life in an institution when I could have been running around outside or reading or earning money.
I home schooled both my kids. I focused on the things I felt were lacking in school. It turned out not to matter that I suck at those subjects. My kids learned them pretty well anyway. The one thing I learned as my kids got older is that middle school is a waste of three years. They use it to let kids catch up who aren't ready for highschool yet. So I just put my kids into highschool level math and science around the 7th grade mark. That worked out really well. My 16 year old just finished his first year of community college. It is being funded through a charter school who is more than happy to claim him as a student for his test results. They count his college credits toward highschool and at the end of next year he should have earned his highschool diploma and will still need two classes to finish his AS. We found it really hard to settle on a degree since my son has a lot of different interests. It was really tempting for him to take machining but he decided to take the pre engineering degree. I bet he won't go right into a four year university though. I think he needs to work a little first and find out more about himself before he continues in school. Also, now days it's hard to find a place that will hire you unless you are 18.
I should add that I have noticed the public schools are doing this thing called AP classes which is sort of the same thing as early college or dual enrollment. I am sure it is about the same, although I am releived to let my kid skip out on actually having to attend highschool. You are treated as an adult at college and I think that has been good for my son.