View Full Version : US Space Force -- Good? Bad? Alternate proposal?
Vic Tory
06-19-2018, 10:50
President Trump wants to have a Space Force???NO! Let’s NOT keep making government bigger.
My counter:
1. Combine Air & Space Force
2. Combine Marines & Army
3. Combine Navy & Coast Guard
There. We just reduced the military from 5 to 3 branches, saving BILLION$. You’re welcome.
DenverGP
06-19-2018, 11:10
Let private industry do it. NASA was necessary in the beginning, but these days the commercial competition is resulting in much more efficiency and innovation.
President Trump wants to have a Space Force???NO! Let’s NOT keep making government bigger.
My counter:
1. Combine Air & Space Force
2. Combine Marines & Army
3. Combine Navy & Coast Guard
There. We just reduced the military from 5 to 3 branches, saving BILLION$. You’re welcome.
Currently most milspace things are under the purview of the Air Force, with the Navy and Army having their own programs.
One of the biggest issues that I've heard rumblings about is that the AF has taken congressional money that was earmarked for milspace programs and redirected it to funding the F35. Not sure how much truth there is to the claim, but I've heard it from more than one source.
I'm somewhat ambivalent about whether milspace programs should be organized under existing forces or if we need a new Space Force, but what is clear is that as other nations spin up their own mil- and civil space programs, the US is in distinct danger of losing its competitive and military advantage. In any given future conflict, such a loss would be hugely detrimental to US forces because of how dependent the military is on space-based assets.
General Hyten has probably been the biggest public voice calling for a shakeup in how milspace is handled; that said, I don't know if he supports a distinctly separate Space Force. Regardless, however, much of what he's said on the topic is worth reading:
http://spacenews.com/?s=Hyten
Let private industry do it. NASA was necessary in the beginning, but these days the commercial competition is resulting in much more efficiency and innovation.
NASA is primarily concerned with civil space, science and exploration. There is crossover wil milspace, but most milspace programs (spysats, GPS, missile warning, etc.) are handled by the Air Force, or in some cases some TLAs.
To create such a force may well violate a treaty to which we subscribe...
https://www.state.gov/t/isn/5181.htm#.WyiKgYVY7Jc.facebook
Here's an op-ed on the proposed Space Force.
http://spacenews.com/what-would-the-mission-of-the-united-states-space-force-be/
Here's an op-ed on the proposed Space Force.
http://spacenews.com/what-would-the-mission-of-the-united-states-space-force-be/
Mark Whittington's fantasy idea of what a Space Force would consist of and be responsible for is laughable.
President Trump wants to have a Space Force???NO! Let’s NOT keep making government bigger.
My counter:
1. Combine Air & Space Force
2. Combine Marines & Army
3. Combine Navy & Coast Guard
There. We just reduced the military from 5 to 3 branches, saving BILLION$. You’re welcome.
Which branch did you serve in?
I think this is an issue that was a done deal ever since we first turned our eyes skyward. The only real debate will be how it is implemented and into which accounting buckets the funds are organized.
Agree that some is hugely fanciful, especially near the end.
Clearly part of the Navy, i.e. Star Fleet with Space Marines because there is no Air in space. [Coffee]
I want to hear about all the cool stuff we need a force like this for that isn't to protect from "us". I'm not saying it's aliens but ...
The Air Force currently has the AF Space Command, which will likely become the US Space Force and take-in any current satellite and space based missions. There has been talk of this for decades.
Just as the US Army Air Corps became the US Air Force in 1947, this is a good idea to provide separate management of a large and growing segment of one of our service branches.
It is not driven by a need or desire to weaponize outer space in some sort of Star Wars model.
Not yet anyway.
Honey Badger282.8
06-19-2018, 13:10
Space is a maritime environment and the Navy is the branch with the most expertise in that area. Hell, a lot of the space assets the Air Force operates were developed from technologies and missions pioneered by the Navy; GPS being the most famous example. Leave the Earth-focused space missions to the Air Force and give all manned military missions to the Navy.
To create such a force may well violate a treaty to which we subscribe...
https://www.state.gov/t/isn/5181.htm#.WyiKgYVY7Jc.facebook
Just because we can't put weapons of mass destruction in space or create military bases on any celestial bodies doesn't mean there is no military purpose to space. There is no ban of military space stations so long as they do not contain WMDs, there is no ban of military vessels in space. The U.S. Navy has shot down a satellite that had a high probability of surviving reentry with lots of hydrazine onboard. China developed an ASAT (anti-satellite) missile and destroyed one of it's weather satellites while it was still in it's orbital station. The resulting debris fouled an entire orbital plane leading to many secondary impacts and damage to other assets. Space is already militarized.
Space Farce
Starring Larry the Cable Guy
A sequel to Delta Farce
I expect my government to be acting without anybody knowing about it. No "Space Force". Just let the Skunkworks do what they do and shut-up about it.
kidicarus13
06-19-2018, 13:21
Of course it's a good idea. I'm going to apply to be a Space Shuttle Tail Gunner. Weeeeee...75132
Just because we can't put weapons of mass destruction in space or create military bases on any celestial bodies doesn't mean there is no military purpose to space. There is no ban of military space stations so long as they do not contain WMDs, there is no ban of military vessels in space. The U.S. Navy has shot down a satellite that had a high probability of surviving reentry with lots of hydrazine onboard. China developed an ASAT (anti-satellite) missile and destroyed one of it's weather satellites while it was still in it's orbital station. The resulting debris fouled an entire orbital plane leading to many secondary impacts and damage to other assets. Space is already militarized.
This. While this conversation may be hitting the main stream populous as a conversation topic now, everyone is pretty much way too late to the conversation.
DenverGP
06-19-2018, 14:45
Definitely a dumb idea to create another "branch". Air Force is already operating the X-37B, and they do the majority of the military satellite control stuff as well.
Some of the stuff I’ve heard about the proposed Space Force remind me of the time in college American History 101 when the “Professor” stated with 100% conviction on her part that Ronald Reagan had wanted to create a gigantic metal umbrella that would protect CONUS from all incoming Soviet and Chinese ICBMs, like she literally thought that the Star Wars program was a physical missile proof shield.
“Don’t go slow, be careful” Jedi
Zundfolge
06-19-2018, 16:50
Jesus, the nonsense from the left about this is more annoying than usual.
We already have "USAF Space Command". The Navy and Army also have their own "Space Command" wings. Putting them all under one umbrella organization will save money by streamlining operations ... its not the creation of "Space Marines", its mostly concerned with managing and defending our satellites.
Maybe if we combine the Space branch with national parks, everyone will quiet down.
Maybe if we combine the Space branch with national parks, everyone will quiet down.
...until the next government budget shutdown and then the national parks and space will be closed.
Madeinhb
06-19-2018, 18:09
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180620/8b5652d0a174f568c7a86d819865ab64.jpg
Honey Badger282.8
06-20-2018, 08:05
The best protection of our satellites is the fact that most of our adversaries have satellites in the same orbital plane. If Russia or China destroy a U.S. satellite they will be risking their own too.
Saw this and laughed.
https://i.imgur.com/o00Cj99.png
Delfuego
06-20-2018, 11:37
I'd prefer we take all the money, use it to increase cyber (defensive and offensive) and harden our electrical infrastructure (broadly) and create/maintain redundancies to any critical satellite based comms or surveillance. That makes way too much sense. It is also not flashy enough for people to think about. We need more shiny objects to drool over...
I'd prefer we take all the money, use it to increase cyber (defensive and offensive) and harden our electrical infrastructure (broadly) and create/maintain redundancies to any critical satellite based comms or surveillance. Because when it comes right down to it, there's about shit diddly we or anyone else can do to protect near earth orbits already, and the outer orbits won't be too hard to universally take out soon.
....
You mean like Russia is doing in its own military networks? :) Gee, I wonder why they are doing so?
I'd prefer we take all the money, use it to increase cyber (defensive and offensive) and harden our electrical infrastructure (broadly) and create/maintain redundancies to any critical satellite based comms or surveillance. Because when it comes right down to it, there's about shit diddly we or anyone else can do to protect near earth orbits already, and the outer orbits won't be too hard to universally take out soon. Once the tech is down, by the time we managed to destroy anti-satellite weapons most likely all our satellites would be toast. Things aren't there yet, but it's not far off.
Cybersecurity is a huge part of anything to do with space for obvious reasons. It's also something that DoD has been pouring a lot of resources into dealing with.
Regarding space assets, there's a movement afoot to adopt commercial procedures and processes in acquisition, with the hope of being able to launch and orbit space assets at a much lower cost and much more rapidly than is currently able to be done. This has been a particularly personal drum that Gen. Hyten has been beating for several years now.
have a hard time believing China/Russia doesn't already have the weapons and strategy in place to take out the vast majority of our satellites if it comes down to it.
The Chinese and the US have both successfully tested ASAT weapons.
The Chinese and the US have both successfully tested ASAT weapons.
For the US, this dates back to the mid-'80s. It's just become easier since then.
Somewhat tangentially related to the Space Force news:
http://spacenews.com/white-house-releases-near-earth-object-action-plan/
WASHINGTON — A report released by the White House June 20 outlines a set of goals to address the small but “high-consequence” threat posed by near Earth objects (NEOs), but does not commit to spending more money to achieve them.
The “National Near-Earth Object Preparedness Strategy and Action Plan” document, released by the White House’s Office of Science and Technology Policy in cooperation with other federal agencies, including NASA, establishes goals for searching for NEOs and preparing for any possible impacts. It builds upon a strategy document released by the Obama administration in 2016.
The new report outlines five goals for government agencies to achieve: enhance NEO detection, tracking and characterization techniques; improve NEO modeling and prediction capabilities; develop technologies for deflecting or disrupting NEOs; increase international coordination on NEO issues; and strengthen emergency procedures and protocols in the event of a threatened impact.
Vic Tory
06-21-2018, 13:17
...
General Hyten has probably been the biggest public voice calling for a shakeup in how milspace is handled; that said, I don't know if he supports a distinctly separate Space Force. Regardless, however, much of what he's said on the topic is worth reading:
http://spacenews.com/?s=Hyten
Good piece. Thanks.
BushMasterBoy
06-21-2018, 13:36
I figure the alien beings will just use asteroids to make us extinct. I have overwhelming evidence of this. They want the planet.
wctriumph
06-21-2018, 16:16
As long as they name it "Enterprise" it can't fail.
Delfuego
06-21-2018, 17:39
75161
I figure the alien beings will just use asteroids to make us extinct. I have overwhelming evidence of this. They want the planet.
75171
BushMasterBoy
06-23-2018, 11:22
I'm just curious if anybody was at a US Air Force base in Aviano, Italy when the UFO was sighted over Victor Alert area? The guy that wrote the report is from Colorado. Maybe he is a member here? Just seems weird because I was on a military charter jet on my way to the UK on that day. Victor Alert is where military fighters are kept on a instant readiness and are heavily guarded. I'm asking because I am trying to connect the dots in all the reports and sightings. The base I was heading to had a Victor Alert with F-111's.
https://ufologie.patrickgross.org/htm/aviano77.htm
Rucker61
06-24-2018, 07:18
I'm just curious if anybody was at a US Air Force base in Aviano, Italy when the UFO was sighted over Victor Alert area? The guy that wrote the report is from Colorado. Maybe he is a member here? Just seems weird because I was on a military charter jet on my way to the UK on that day. Victor Alert is where military fighters are kept on a instant readiness and are heavily guarded. I'm asking because I am trying to connect the dots in all the reports and sightings. The base I was heading to had a Victor Alert with F-111's.
https://ufologie.patrickgross.org/htm/aviano77.htm
Would UFOs really spin, and would they come equipped with anti-collision lights?
https://ufologie.patrickgross.org/htm/aviano77.htm
I take umbrage with the term "ufologist", but that's probably just me.
Sent from my electronic leash using Tapatalk
Martinjmpr
06-25-2018, 18:44
All I can say is:
I'M DOING MY PART!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_7FaWnlhS4
spqrzilla
06-25-2018, 20:02
Do we have a new punchline for the old joke: "What does each service do when you order 'Secure a building'" ?
It's going to involve remote sensing and rods from God.
Rucker61
06-27-2018, 10:15
Do we have a new punchline for the old joke: "What does each service do when you order 'Secure a building'" ?
The Space Force covers the building with an inflatable quarantine tent and hides inside for 21 days.
"Space Force"? Oh my god......
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8xw83b/the-navy-says-the-ufos-in-tom-delonges-videos-are-unidentified-aerial-phenomena
Navy admitting that UFOs/UAPs exist.
Bailey Guns
09-19-2019, 07:06
Gonna look like the arrival scene of Independence Day soon.
Yes, they are real. (UAPs) and their tech exceeds our own. This is only a tiny fraction of the US Gov. data on them. That said, most sightings and abduction stories are total bullshit (often products of bipolar I, schizophrenia, or just plain pathological).
For the ones that are real, I strongly suspect they are all drones, perhaps using quantum entanglement for telemetry (e.g. live flying/live data in a sense) but we're so freaking remote that biological transit is a pretty shitty option. There's decent somewhat reliable information from Tom that they use some kind of space-time warping, e.g. gravity bending to fly; note that's still not a wormhole (just allows the fast direction changes, etc). There's also some info from Tom that both the US and Russians have duplicated some of that tech on the highly classified end, which are some of the legitimate sightings.
Not overly concerned about "resource harvesting" either, we don't have anything all that unique and it's a whole lot easier to harvest resources close to home. I'm pretty sure it's curiosity. I also doubt the zoo hypothesis', or "Galaxy of Nations" crap, I think advanced life is so remote in the cosmos that when you can find it, it is intriguing to try to learn everything you can about it - without f'ing it up too much (such as we *try* to sanitize spacecraft pre-launch as to not drop microbial life in other biomes.) Now if the real guys ever show up someday (which I doubt, expense, value, etc.) it would be guaranteed to be bad news, but very little we could do about it.
PS: I'm pretty sure drones have been visiting for thousands of years too, and I don't think the frequency has increased. It's only now that we have aircraft with good enough sensors, video, and recording capabilities that we can start to show it.
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