Home AC question re: Cost?

[Martinjmpr]

Well, this summer has been brutal at our house.

We moved into this 2800 sq ft 4br/3ba house in the Columbine area last year, wanting a little more space (compared to our tiny 1100 square foot 3br/1ba home in Englewood.)

House has an attic fan/ whole house fan but no AC.

The whole house fan actually does a good job of cooling the house down at night - it gets so chilly that I often end up getting up in the middle of the night to turn it off (we need either a timer or a remote control.)

But in the afternoon's it's just really uncomfortably hot, even with the windows open (we learned the hard way to NOT turn on the house fan during the day - no point in sucking hot air INTO the house.) So on these hot days, I'm seriously considering adding AC to the house. I just can't stand it when it's 4:00 in the afternoon and 90+ inside. What's worse, with my wife only working part time and me working from home 2 days a week, we're in the house a lot.

I realize that I should consult a professional for a true estimate, but I'm wondering if I can get some input as to just a ballpark figure of what it might cost to add an AC unit to a house of this size. Back about 12 years ago, my mother added AC to her small townhouse (about 800 sq ft on 3 levels) and I think her cost was about $4,000 for everything.

So would I be in the right ballpark if I figured maybe around $6000 - $7000 for a house of our size? And would I be right in thinking that it would correspondingly add approximately that much value to the house when it's time to sell?

We wouldn't think about getting it done this year, as I'm sure the AC companies would charge a "hot weather premium" to do work when it's mid-Summer, but if we can keep the cost reasonable, I think it's the best way to go. Seems like our Summers aren't getting any cooler and I don't want to suffer through another 8 miserable summers in this house (we're committed to staying here until I retire which should be in about 9 years.)

The second question is for those of you who have a similar sized house and put AC in: About how much did your electric bill go up when you added AC? Because our new house is more energy efficient than our old one, our electric bills have actually gone down since we moved, which is nice. I wouldn't mind paying an extra $30 - $50/month if it meant our house was livable during the middle of Summer.

Thanks to anyone who can offer input.

[Irving]

The house fan can really help mitigate your A/C costs by giving you a cooler house to start.

[Martinjmpr]

The house fan can really help mitigate your A/C costs by giving you a cooler house to start.

I was thinking the same thing. As I said, if we run our house fan at night, it gets CHILLY even in the upstairs, which is the hottest part of the house. If we got AC I would likely turn off the AC and open the windows when we went to bed and run the house fan all night. Then in the morning, shut the windows and turn on the AC to keep the house cool during the heat of the day.

[MarkCO]

You can keep it cooler a few ways inexpensively...

Thermal window coverings that are exposed to the sun. Foam board inserts into the windows does help.

If you have a crawl space, you can pump air from there into the attic during the day and significantly cut the temp in the house. If not, consider power venting the attic...taking outside air and circulating it through the attic during the day. Attic temps in CO in the summer get to 150ish depending. Cutting 50F off of that helps tremendously.

The good numbers I have seen in CO this year are in the range of about $4/sq/ft for decently energy efficient houses with good energy efficient AC. Our house (built in 2009) has better AC than the builder was installing (did it as an upgrade myself) and we are in the range of about $50/month for AC while the other two houses of the same floor plan are in the range of about $80/month. So efficiency does matter.

[TFOGGER]

As dry as it is here (usually), have you considered a swamp cooler? We use a window mounted unit upstairs, and it keeps the whole house(1300sf) pretty comfortable (75 ish peak). I know larger roof mounted units are a bit more expensive, but they're more effective as well.

[fitz19d]

If you spend your time mostly in certain rooms, can consider single room conditioners, depending on layout I hear they can cover suprising area if you are good about keeping doors shut. Newer ones afforable and much quiter than they used to be.

My house sucks and by late afternoon the heat overpowers the ac and creeps to 80/81 if set at 78. Considered this though just a floor fan usually works for when im just coming at the computer rather than working in the house.

[Irving]

My neighbor works for a company that sells swam coolers that do not add moisture to your house. It cools the air the same way as a swamp, but the moisture is contained and drips out of the unit itself into the yard. He's been telling me that if an A/C unit of the same size as his unit takes 4,500 watts to run, his takes 450 watts. The company is called Coolerado.

http://www.coolerado.com/how-coolerado-works/

[Irving]

As a side not, all of our Southwest facing windows have ugly 1950's awnings on them. While they are ugly, they are pretty effective. I don't have A/C, work from home and have a (small) house full of kids and dogs, and the highest I've ever seen our house was 84 degrees, but it usually tops out at 80. Even yesterday it only got to 81 degrees. Physical barriers work great.

[Ramsker]

The whole house fans are awesome . . . when it's cool enough to really work well. We run the AC during the day and then ideally let the whole house fan do its thing once it cools down at night. Lately, though, it hasn't really gotten all that cool before bedtime. I somtimes turn it on really early in the morning to get the initial temp down.

Can't wait for the cooler nights that aren't too far away. My wife hates it when I put that sucker on high and chill the whle house down in <30 mins.

[DenverGP]

For my smaller house (about 1600 sq ft) my recent AC install (along with a new high efficiency gas furnace) was around $5000, but that price was an HVAC friend of a friend picking up the equipment and doing the install. I got quotes from several hvac companies for about $9000 or so.

That said, it was worth every penny I paid for it, even if I had to pay the "regular" price.

Before the AC install, we were running a portable room AC in the living room, and a window unit AC in my office, and those ran pretty much non stop. They were noisy and only kept the house bearable not comfortable.

Our electric bill is now lower with the central air, but we did also get new windows and attic ventilation around the same time.

[BushMasterBoy]

I have a small house(1400sqft). I put a small window unit swamp cooler in the living room window. I keep the two smaller bedroom doors closed. Costs is $10 to $15 a month extra. 102F outside right now and 77F inside. I bought a solar power fan for the attic to vent air from the the roof eaves to the outside, but haven't installed it. House came new with central air, I just don't use it.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Master-Flow-500-CFM-Solar-Powered-Gable-Mount-Exhaust-Fan-PGSOLAR/100548465

[Wolfshoon]

Going through this myself at the moment as the AC I have got a leak in the evaporator A frame inside and is the old R22 coolant system. First bid in is $6300 to replace the condenser compressor (outside unit) and heat exchanger A coil (inside unit) and flush and reuse the old coolant lines and install new R410 components. God all mighty. I "knew" a guy and I bought all this stuff for $1550 back in 2012 under his license and another $1400 in labor so less than 3k back then. Full MSRP on the stuff I bought would have been $4087 total, or 2.84 times what I paid at jobber. I know R22 is around $140 a pound, but this tough to accept. It's a 4 ton unit for a 1800 sq ft house with a 1800 basement.

[Wulf202]

The cfc test isn't expensive. It's not hard, just memorizing a bunch of useless laws. You only need a type 2 (70% iirc). An llc is $55 then set up a cash account at the supply house.

[Irving]

I don't think I ever paid for any of my LLCs, if I did, it was no where near $55.

[ray1970]

I had AC installed including a new furnace for about $3500. Of course that was about fifteen years ago. I found a guy who worked doing installs who was willing to do the job on the side which probably saved me a bunch of labor cost. The guy showed up on a Saturday with all of the new stuff, took out the old furnace and installed the new AC/furnace and hauled the old stuff off. Probably took him five or six hours start to finish. I think my house is around 2000 sq feet. I had a swamp cooler before that but it was too much maintenance and upkeep for my liking. I much prefer to just flip a switch one way or the other if I need hot or cold.

[NFATrustGuy]

I had AC installed including a new furnace for about $3500. Of course that was about fifteen years ago. I found a guy who worked doing installs who was willing to do the job on the side which probably saved me a bunch of labor cost. The guy showed up on a Saturday with all of the new stuff, took out the old furnace and installed the new AC/furnace and hauled the old stuff off. Probably took him five or six hours start to finish. I think my house is around 2000 sq feet. I had a swamp cooler before that but it was too much maintenance and upkeep for my liking. I much prefer to just flip a switch one way or the other if I need hot or cold.

Wow. I’d like to find that guy. I’ve got 2 AC/furnace units at my house that have been unreliable and I’m afraid may be on their last legs. I’m bracing myself for a big bill and am hoping they’ll make it through the summer so I won’t be overcharged in the “heat”of the AC season.

[ben4372]

I've been in my house for ten plus years, and this is my 1st year with A/C. I have a whole house fan. Get it cold overnight, would stay below 80 even during hot days. The biggest factor is insulation and thermal curtains. Reflective film on the windows is a huge help too.

A friend put a modern central evap cooler in a couple years ago and it is SWEET. My house would have been more trouble than it was worth or I'd have done it. If you're basing price on the example you gave........get ready. Prices are bananas.

[pickenup]

My neighbor works for a company that sells swam coolers that do not add moisture to your house. It cools the air the same way as a swamp, but the moisture is contained and drips out of the unit itself into the yard. He's been telling me that if an A/C unit of the same size as his unit takes 4,500 watts to run, his takes 450 watts. The company is called Coolerado.

http://www.coolerado.com/how-coolerado-works/

From their website....

Unfortunately, at this time, Coolerado does not sell or install air conditioners for residential use. However, if you are interested, please fill out this form and we will let you know when residential options are available.Click here to enter text
Too bad, sounded good.

[Irving]

Hmmm, I'll have to inquire about that.

EDIT: Yes, they only have standard Evaporative coolers for residential. Sorry for the mistake. I had never looked into the product and he has one on his house, so of course I assumed they sold to the general public.

[TheGrey]

Our AC went out on us right before summer last year, and we suffered mightily for it. Our furnace and AC were circa 1976, and our hot water heater was circa 1988. We bit the bullet and had all 3 appliances replaced at once, with one of the "buy X air conditioner and get Y furnace for free".

It was expensive, but we look at it as an investment. In our opinion, it was well worth it. We also got solar panels a few months prior, so it really cut our electricity down.

[Bailey Guns]

Can't answer the question about cost but I can give you an idea of what we spend on running our AC during the summer. It's not much. Our house is 3200 sq ft and temps in the summer here are frequently in the upper 90s, and maybe a 15 days or so in the 100s...up to 115. I run the AC constantly in the summer and keep the thermostat set at 73 or 74. I frequently run a room AC in the bedroom at night when my wife is working. Our house is entirely electric. The AC adds $40 to our bill during July and Aug, $20 during June and Sep. Pretty cheap comfort if you ask me.

Having said that, our electricity cost here is only .08 per KwH. Cost in Bailey was about .18 KwH. So it's much cheaper for us (thanks to all the hydro power in the area).

[DenverGP]

Just piggybacking on this recent AC question... neighbor asked me if I could come over and take a look at his AC... I'm not an HVAC guy, but I've got basic homeowner mechanical skills and he doesn't.

It wasn't cooling for shit, and he asked if I knew how often he needed to change the "blanket" around the condenser coils. Sure enough, looking thru the fins, it had so much cottonwood crap stuck to it, it looked like it had a blanket around it. He's had it 2 years, never once cleaned it.

Gave it a good cleaning, helped him change the filter in the furnace, and suddenly it's like a brand new system.

[Irving]

LOL, I've seen that cottonwood "blanket" during a few inspections. Pretty gross.

[NFATrustGuy]

Pretty amazing that someone would let it get to that point and not investigate when things aren’t working. I wish my problems could be solved as easy as this. I came home this evening at about 6:45 to find half my house at 75 degrees and the other half at 73. Both thermostats were set at 71. (I have 2 air conditioning units. One for each side of the house.)

I had an HVAC friend of the family come out a few weeks ago and he said the coolant level was fine. I assumed I have a leak because when I bought the house 2 years ago, it wasn’t cooling well and refrigerant was added and things worked well for the next 22 months. I think I need a second opinion, but it’ll probably be Fall before I can get an appointment without paying a hefty premium. I realize it’s all supply and demand and stuff, but paying an AC guy a premium because it’s hot outside seems like paying a snow skiing instructor a premium because there’s snow on the ground!

[Irving]

Well, ski lessons are probably pretty cheap in July.

[Great-Kazoo]

Pretty amazing that someone would let it get to that point and not investigate when things aren’t working. I wish my problems could be solved as easy as this. I came home this evening at about 6:45 to find half my house at 75 degrees and the other half at 73. Both thermostats were set at 71. (I have 2 air conditioning units. One for each side of the house.)

I had an HVAC friend of the family come out a few weeks ago and he said the coolant level was fine. I assumed I have a leak because when I bought the house 2 years ago, it wasn’t cooling well and refrigerant was added and things worked well for the next 22 months. I think I need a second opinion, but it’ll probably be Fall before I can get an appointment without paying a hefty premium. I realize it’s all supply and demand and stuff, but paying an AC guy a premium because it’s hot outside seems like paying a snow skiing instructor a premium because there’s snow on the ground!

If you factor in the 100 deg + day in the area, combined with your lack of trees for shade. The temp readings are, IMO, within range for your home.

[Martinjmpr]

OK, so I'm dredging up this old thread from last year to post an update:

We had AC installed by Front Range Mechanical, at the recommendation of a member here. The sales guy was very professional, went all around the house and showed me multiple options at various costs.

His estimate was also the lowest, by a pretty good margin.

Our total cost to install was about $5300, of which we got $600 back from Xcel as a rebate once our system was tested and found to be efficient (I think it is 13 SEER but I'd have to double check the paperwork.) That was actually somewhat lower than I'd expected - my mom got AC installed in her small condo about 15 years ago and paid $4000 so I figured we'd be $6000 - $7000 easy. I was pleasantly surprised.)

Because of the cool and rainy spring, we didn't even turn on our AC until late June when it started to get hot. We tried to use the system sporadically, leaving it off at night with the windows open but after a while that became too much work so we just left it on.

Our first bill in early August was for $117, up from $83 the previous year, but as I said, we weren't using AC a lot. Our second, using AC quite a bit more, was for $142, up from $80 from the previous year. According to our bill (Xcel shows "per day" usage for both the current month and the same month last year) our per-day electric use went from $2.05 to $3.66.

Bottom line, although the initial cost was high (we used our tax refund), I think it will add at least that much to the value of the house when it is time to sell, so IMO that justifies the expense right there (especially if we're selling in mid-summer.)

And per-day costs? $1.61/day to be in a cool and comfortable house is worth it to me. Wife (who was skeptical at first, just based on the cost) is happy too, particularly on those very hot days we had in July and August. Happy wife = happy life, right?

Anyway, I'm glad we did it. Would definitely recommend Front Range Mechanical if you are in the market for AC.

[kidicarus13]

Not sure who recommended FRM to you but I also used them and have been happy for two summers with our upgraded AC.

[brutal]

OK, so I'm dredging up this old thread from last year to post an update:

We had AC installed by Front Range Mechanical, at the recommendation of a member here. The sales guy was very professional, went all around the house and showed me multiple options at various costs.

His estimate was also the lowest, by a pretty good margin.

Our total cost to install was about $5300, of which we got $600 back from Xcel as a rebate once our system was tested and found to be efficient (I think it is 13 SEER but I'd have to double check the paperwork.) That was actually somewhat lower than I'd expected - my mom got AC installed in her small condo about 15 years ago and paid $4000 so I figured we'd be $6000 - $7000 easy. I was pleasantly surprised.)

Because of the cool and rainy spring, we didn't even turn on our AC until late June when it started to get hot. We tried to use the system sporadically, leaving it off at night with the windows open but after a while that became too much work so we just left it on.

Our first bill in early August was for $117, up from $83 the previous year, but as I said, we weren't using AC a lot. Our second, using AC quite a bit more, was for $142, up from $80 from the previous year. According to our bill (Xcel shows "per day" usage for both the current month and the same month last year) our per-day electric use went from $2.05 to $3.66.

Bottom line, although the initial cost was high (we used our tax refund), I think it will add at least that much to the value of the house when it is time to sell, so IMO that justifies the expense right there (especially if we're selling in mid-summer.)

And per-day costs? $1.61/day to be in a cool and comfortable house is worth it to me. Wife (who was skeptical at first, just based on the cost) is happy too, particularly on those very hot days we had in July and August. Happy wife = happy life, right?

Anyway, I'm glad we did it. Would definitely recommend Front Range Mechanical if you are in the market for AC.

They should have commissioned the unit when it was consistently over 70*. Our HVAC guys came back out a month or so after install to check it and had to add some refrigerant to our new unit.

Our IREA bill is usually pretty high anyway, and we're also cooling an RV that's being lived in. Aug and Sep billis are insane with the extra hot weather we've had. Comparatively, my current bill over last year was $53 more for the month (33 billings days?) with the new A/C v.s. running a whole house fan all night, so $1.60/day more here as well, but those extra heat days caused much of the increase too.

[Great-Kazoo]

They should have commissioned the unit when it was consistently over 70*. Our HVAC guys came back out a month or so after install to check it and had to add some refrigerant to our new unit.

Our IREA bill is usually pretty high anyway, and we're also cooling an RV that's being lived in. Aug and Sep billis are insane with the extra hot weather we've had. Comparatively, my current bill over last year was $53 more for the month (33 billings days?) with the new A/C v.s. running a whole house fan all night, so $1.60/day more here as well, but those extra heat days caused much of the increase too.

Does IREA offer different billing options? I know APS down here believes your KwH usage is worth every penny, till you look at the options they offer. By doing some homework and talking to APS we've dropped the summer average down $45 - $50 per month.

I "think" rural power companies slam you hard, in the warmer months, as most rural homes have propane heat, stoves and driers. So come cooler weather (depending on area) their cash cow dies off.

[brutal]

Does IREA offer different billing options? I know APS down here believes your KwH usage is worth every penny, till you look at the options they offer. By doing some homework and talking to APS we've dropped the summer average down $45 - $50 per month.

I "think" rural power companies slam you hard, in the warmer months, as most rural homes have propane heat, stoves and driers. So come cooler weather (depending on area) their cash cow dies off.

IREA does offer "Budget billing." Not on a fixed income per se so no big deal when summer is higher.

We moved to a dual fuel range/oven so no more electric cooktop, but still the oven. We also have an electric clothes drier, water and heat on Nat Gas of course. Nat Gas is SOOOO freaking cheap to run. I heard NYC wants to ban gas stoves. LOL.

Our bill has also gotten larger thanks to the EPA and gubmint minimum "renewable sources" requirements and the fact they don't count hydro as renewable. IREA is a coop too and tried to sue their way out of it but lost (go figure.)

WTF we don't start cranking out Gen IV Nuclear power plants for the forthcoming EV tidal wave is beyond my simple mind to grasp.