Erie Following Boulders Lead

[WETWRKS]

http://www.dailycamera.com/erie-news/ci_32030158/erie-may-ban-open-carry-firearms

[Irving]

I don't see how that's following Boulder's lead. The city of Thornton and Westminster, and most other cities have that same ban already I believe. At the very least, I can name a few specific parks and city owned buildings that have signs saying no open carry of firearms. I thought that was pretty standard practice.

[.455_Hunter]

I thought that was pretty standard practice.

It is.

I know Arvada has it, as well as most urban counties. Ever looked at a Jeffco Open Space Regulations sign- Yup, no open carry.

That is the Colorado Bugaboo with regards to open carry. Outside of Denver, it may not be "illegal" per say, but the minute you walk off a sidewalk and onto a green belt bike path, you are now breaking the law.

[mattiooo]

I don't open carry for very specific reasons, so this won't affect me personally, but I thought towns couldn't make laws that were in contradiction to state law and Erie is not a home rule municipality.

[Irving]

I'm under the impression it's not against the law because they are only banning open carry on property that they control.

[avandelay]

I'm really wondering what this is in response to other than the new residents complaining about icky guns. I've been in this area for a few years now and haven't seen anyone open carry. Although, there was a slate of liberals/progressives voted into office because of O&G activity in the area so they may just be continuing on in the 'progressive' line of thought. They've already jacked up my taxes so I guess icky guns are next. With all of the development going on I really doubt that the gun range has much time before being pushed out too.

ETA, with all of the coyotes in the area the trails are where you would need some form of defense.

[.455_Hunter]

Erie already lost the Mile High Shooting Park, which was a mile or so east of the airpark along Hwy 7.

[avandelay]

As I expected, this is a solution in search of a problem. Starting at minute 36 of this vid they start discussing the ordinance - http://erie.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=9&clip_id=1906. They have absolutely nothing to base the 'need' on and the example the police chief gives wouldn't even change if the ordinance was implemented.

[BPTactical]

Good luck with that Erie

(Reuters) - A federal appeals court ruled on Tuesday that the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment guarantees a right to openly carry a gun in public for self-defense, finding that Hawaii overstepped its authority to regulate firearms possession outside the home.

The ruling by a three-judge panel on the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, makes the San Francisco-based court the sixth U.S. circuit court to interpret the Second Amendment that way and could set the issue on a path toward the U.S. Supreme Court, which has not taken up a major gun rights case since 2010.

[avandelay]

Good luck with that Erie

This was brought up during the discussion and the legal eagle town lawyer said that she didn't know, but that the similar ordinance in other towns had not been challenged. The followup question should have been 'this ruling came out this morning, how could the other ordinances have been challenged in that time?'

[WETWRKS]

Erie already lost the Mile High Shooting Park, which was a mile or so east of the airpark along Hwy 7.

They didn't just lose it...it was stolen from the owners under the guise that the local police needed it for training. Not long there after it was shut down to make housing.

[avandelay]

It seems state law is somewhat in their favor -

TITLE 29. GOVERNMENT - LOCAL
MISCELLANEOUS
ARTICLE 11.7. REGULATION OF FIREARMS

C.R.S. 29-11.7-104 (2011)

29-11.7-104. Regulation - carrying - posting

A local government may enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area within the local government's jurisdiction. If a local government enacts an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area, the local government shall post signs at the public entrances to the building or specific area informing persons that the open carrying of firearms is prohibited in the building or specific area.

Unfortunately the Erie town council wants to include all town-owned 'open space' including the trails. That will be a lot of signage that will need to be put up just to be taken down when it all comes to the 9th circuit decision filtering down.

[.455_Hunter]

Unfortunately the Erie town council wants to include all town-owned 'open space' including the trails. That will be a lot of signage that will need to be put up just to be taken down when it all comes to the 9th circuit decision filtering down.

Just like about every other municipality and county on the Front Range. Is there any city/county (maybe Castle Rock?) that does allow open carry in gov't buildings and park lands?

[avandelay]

Just like about every other municipality and county on the Front Range. Is there any city/county (maybe Castle Rock?) that does allow open carry in gov't buildings and park lands?

Are they in compliance with the state law that states - "...the local government shall post signs at the public entrances to the building or specific area informing persons that the open carrying of firearms is prohibited in the building or specific area." There are miles and miles of trails around Erie. I doubt they're going to post signage along the trail system and just show up when Gladys Kravitz sees someone and is scared. And the 'up to 1 year in jail' penalty is a bit much when you have to keep up with the mental map of these ordinances in relation to what is and isn't town property.

[Eric P]

I see these sign on the highlands ranch trail system saying firearms prohibited. I ignore and carry on.

Can they prohibit conceal carry or just open carry since the don't secure access to the the trails?

[avandelay]

I see these sign on the highlands ranch trail system saying firearms prohibited. I ignore and carry on.

Can they prohibit conceal carry or just open carry since the don't secure access to the the trails?

According to SENATE BILL 03-025 it only specifies open carry can be restricted if proper signage is present. I don't open carry due to the potential attention it brings, but to restrict open carry beyond the structures to include the trail system and then attach a penalty that can include up to one year in jail is a bit much. There are too many places to enter the trail system and not see the signage.

29-11.7-102. Firearms database - prohibited. (1) A LOCAL GOVERNMENT, INCLUDING A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY, SHALL NOT MAINTAIN A LIST OR OTHER FORM OF RECORD OR DATABASE OF:
(a) PERSONS WHO PURCHASE, OR EXCHANGE FIREARMS OR WHO LEAVE FIREARMS FOR REPAIR OR SALE ON CONSIGNMENT;
(b) PERSONS WHO TRANSFER FIREARMS, UNLESS THE PERSONS ARE FEDERALLY LICENSED FIREARMS DEALERS;
(c) THE DESCRIPTIONS, INCLUDING SERIAL NUMBERS, OF FIREARMS PURCHASED, TRANSFERRED, EXCHANGED, OR LEFT FOR REPAIR OR SALE ON CONSIGNMENT.

29-11.7-103. Regulation - type of firearm - prohibited. A LOCAL GOVERNMENT MAY NOT ENACT AN ORDINANCE, REGULATION, OR OTHER LAW THAT PROHIBITS THE SALE, PURCHASE, OR POSSESSION OF A FIREARM THAT A PERSON MAY LAWFULLY SELL, PURCHASE, OR POSSESS UNDER STATE OR FEDERAL LAW. ANY SUCH ORDINANCE, REGULATION, OR OTHER LAW ENACTED BY A LOCAL GOVERNMENT PRIOR TO THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS SECTION IS VOID AND UNENFORCEABLE.

29-11.7-104. Regulation - carrying - posting. A LOCAL GOVERNMENT MAY ENACT AN ORDINANCE, REGULATION, OR OTHER LAW THAT PROHIBITS THE OPEN CARRYING OF A FIREARM IN A BUILDING OR SPECIFIC AREA WITHIN THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT'S JURISDICTION. IF A LOCAL GOVERNMENT ENACTS AN ORDINANCE, REGULATION, OR OTHER LAW THAT PROHIBITS THE OPEN CARRYING OF A FIREARM IN A BUILDING OR SPECIFIC AREA, THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT SHALL POST SIGNS AT THE PUBLIC ENTRANCES TO THE BUILDING OR SPECIFIC AREA INFORMING PERSONS THAT THE OPEN CARRYING OF FIREARMS IS PROHIBITED IN THE BUILDING OR SPECIFIC AREA.

[Eric P]

You are not answering the question. I work in a state building and can ccw in it since the building doesnt screen anyone entering. To prohibit ccw, they would need courthouse type screening per the rest of the posted law above. So can a local government prohibit ccw in the parks without the required screening? I'm under the impression they can't and will continue to carry a firearm on the highlands ranch trail system despite the posting.

I'm not looking for the internet paranoia expressed by hatidua.

[avandelay]

The short answer is I don't know. The longer answer is that I'm not a lawyer nor work in any legal capacity, but the law as passed only specifies that they can restrict open carry with appropriate signage. Then again, reading the law as passed section 29-11.7-103 indicates that the Boulder ban is void and unenforceable, yet there it is being enforced in Boulder.

[Irving]

I'm not looking for the internet paranoia expressed by hatidua.

I didn't see him post in this thread at all.

[hurley842002]

I didn't see him post in this thread at all.Me either, and I don't recall much paranoia coming from him anyway, mainly just cool pictures, and the occasional hint of sarcasm.

[O2HeN2]

I'm under the impression it's not against the law because they are only banning open carry on property that they control.

Yhea, it's only against the Colorado Constitution:

Section 13. Right to bear arms. The right of no person to keep and bear
arms in defense of his home, person and property, or in aid of the civil power
when thereto legally summoned, shall be called in question; but nothing herein
contained shall be construed to justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons.

Note that "unconcealed weapons" (open carry) CANNOT be "called into question."

O2

[avandelay]

In the end I'm sure this will pass a board vote. The last board election for Erie brought in a bunch of anti-O&G liberals (now including the mayor) that now outnumber realists on the board. During the same meeting where they discussed banning open carry they sneaked in a vote to 'postpone' O&G activity until 2019 with no second reading. I'm sure they don't care that the town will be sued because of the ongoing O&G activity. And the only reason that they're doing the open carry ban is because of the feelings of the Gladys Kravitz types. I have never seen anyone open carry in Erie.

[Eric P]

I didn't see him post in this thread at all.

It's gone

[avandelay]

Erie passed a 'watered down' version of the ordinance last night prohibiting open carry in town buildings leaving out the part about open spaces and trails. What I find amusing is that the ordinance supposedly bloomed out of the fracus at the community center created by O&G protestors at a town hall meeting hosted by an O&G producer. As far as I can tell there were no guns present, but the police had to be called out. This was a feel-good solution in search of a problem like we all thought.