View Full Version : Modifying Magazines to Limit Capacity
Does anyone know what is legal in CO to do to lower capacity of magazines?
At gun shows I see modified magazines for sale. Most of them are modified with a rivet. Do these meet the requirement of: "a feeding device permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 15 rounds of ammunition" ?
For another interesting question.
(b) "LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINE" DOES NOT MEAN:
(I) A FEEDING DEVICE THAT HAS BEEN PERMANENTLY ALTERED SO
THAT IT CANNOT ACCOMMODATE MORE THAN FIFTEEN ROUNDS OF
AMMUNITION;
Because a permanently altered magazine is legal, can an individual make a blocked magazine from a parts kit? It seems if magazine parts are permanently altered to less than 15 rounds and then assembled, they would be legal?
There are actually different ways to do this.
Sometimes, for range use, I like short mags. They are more handy. I generally use 10 round AR mags at the range. But not all weapons have factory "short mags". But short mags can often be made by cutting down factory mags. Think of an example of PTR-91 magazines. They are " made in the USA by PTR from German parts". In a nut shell, a $3 (or less) 20 round HK magazine is cut down and a new base plate added. Then they get a $50 price tag. Is buying parts and cutting magazines down to limit capacity legal as an individual.
And then there are hunting laws. Hunting with a semi-auto in CO requires 5 round mags. But I think that a mag can be temporary limited in capacity for [big game] hunting, no? Much like a shotgun tube is blocked. The key requirement being that if a game warden checks, more than 5 rounds better not fit in the mag. I am thinking products like the magpul -5 limiter in a 10 round mag would be acceptable for hunting.
I ask these questions as I have boxes upon boxes of pre-'13 mags that are legal in CO.
But a lot of times, I prefer to carry 15 round and under mags just so the over zealous cop doesn't have anything to get worked up about if I were to contact them (which has never happened). Also, as I said, I like short mags for range use. They fit on shooting benches just fine. But I dont want to modify my pre '13 mags to lower capacity. I want "new" limited mags but not all weapons can they be purchased for. As an example, try finding 15 round [or less] Sterling mags. I think the only way to get them is to cut them down or block them. But on obscure mags, find pre-altered mags is hard.
Does anyone know the rules about permanently altering magazines?
Great-Kazoo
08-02-2018, 23:21
No one gets worked up over greater than 15 rd mags. It's the law one cannot buy, sell or transfer with a firearm a greater than 15 rd mag. Carry to the range or a general shoot as many 20 & 30 rd mags you like.
As for hunting, almost every aftermarket and factory mfg offers a 5 rd mag.
If you want to limit capacity of a mag that's hard or not available older one. Drop a block in the bottom that fits inside the spring. OR if you really feel the need to, pop rivet it somewhere on th emag body.
Not sure why you're concerned about (outside hunting regs) standard mags, especially in weld cty.
I don't think there is any regulation saying that you cannot modify a magazine to hold less rounds. I think according to the wording of the law, a magazine MUST be permanently modified in order to be legal. I don't possibly see how it'd be an issue to modify something to be legal.
No one gets worked up over greater than 15 rd mags. It's the law one cannot buy, sell or transfer with a firearm a greater than 15 rd mag. Carry to the range or a general shoot as many 20 & 30 rd mags you like.
As for hunting, almost every aftermarket and factory mfg offers a 5 rd mag.
If you want to limit capacity of a mag that's hard or not available older one. Drop a block in the bottom that fits inside the spring. OR if you really feel the need to, pop rivet it somewhere on th emag body.
Not sure why you're concerned about (outside hunting regs) standard mags, especially in weld cty.
Not to be too picky...
but the law also covers possession.
" on and after July 1, 2013, a person who sells, transfers, or possesses a large-capacity magazine commits a class 2 misdemeanor."
For the most part in Weld, there is absolutely no issue. I heard directly (not hearsay) from the previous sheriff that the Weld jail wouldnt accept someone from one of the cities that was charged with only magazine violation. That said I go to other places (family for instance lives in BOCO). It is sometimes easier not to "poke the bear".
But I guess that is my question, does a block or rivet meet the letter of the law for limiting them.
I don't think there is any regulation saying that you cannot modify a magazine to hold less rounds. I think according to the wording of the law, a magazine MUST be permanently modified in order to be legal. I don't possibly see how it'd be an issue to modify something to be legal.
But what is "permanently"? Is a rivet permanent?
The other question is "how"? How does one take a magazine you cannot buy and modify it to be legal? So is buying a parts kit that could make a larger magazine and modifying the magazine before assembly to be lower cap then assembling it, legal?
possession is legal if possessed before the law went into effect, and the onus is on the state to prove that wasn't the case -- something impossible for any magazine manufactured prior to that date and in particular lacks a manufacturers stamp/imprint which shows date of manufacture.
newracer
08-03-2018, 08:28
IMO a block or rivet is not permanent.
A rivet is good enough for Canadian mag laws. It is good enough for DOW. A rivet on the floor plate and a block was used by colt during the 94-04 ban.
Precidents have been set that a rivet is a permanent modification
OneGuy67
08-03-2018, 13:43
Other than for hunting purposes, why are we discussing riveting magazines?
Because people want to clarify whether the noose will be organic hemp or good ole fashioned synthetic.
Great-Kazoo
08-03-2018, 14:46
Other than for hunting purposes, why are we discussing riveting magazines?
No reason other than the OP concerned about greater than 15 rd mags. As already mentioned, UNLESS there's a date stamp of 7/13 or newer, there's nothing LE or a DA can do. The burden of proof is on them to show you didn't have possession prior to 7/13.
If it's the sterling mags being an issue. Which i don't know why anyone would want to alter a mag that's not a low budget item. You can use standard USGI mags and notch out a mag catch relief on any decent mag and alter them.
Other than for hunting purposes, why are we discussing riveting magazines?
It is a discussion how someone could be in compliance with the letter of the law.
Lets take a different example.
Lets say a person has a certain amount of Magpul 308 AR mags. But as there were not a lot available before the ban, the person doesnt have "enough" of them (i mean who every has "enough" mags?). So the option is to get a 10 round mag. But the person wants as many round as possible. So a solution is buy a 20 rounder (with the molding date on it) and then block off 5 round permanently. Then the person has a legal 15 round magazine.
But how does one "permanently modify it" and how would one go about legally acquiring the parts to make a legal magazine from a higher capacity magazine. The 20 round mag is not legal to transfer until it is a 15 round magazine. So by the letter of law it seems the only way to do it would to not buy a magazine but to buy components, modify the components, and then assemble to complete magazine into a 15 round magazine.
I guess some of the question is what do people do to comply if they want to buy magazines that were manufacturer after the ban? Or maybe someone buys a gun for which the manufacturer did not the gun/magazines before 2013?
Other than for hunting purposes, why are we discussing riveting magazines?
option #17.
Someone has too much time to worry about trivial matters....
No reason other than the OP concerned about greater than 15 rd mags. As already mentioned, UNLESS there's a date stamp of 7/13 or newer, there's nothing LE or a DA can do. The burden of proof is on them to show you didn't have possession prior to 7/13.
I guess I also have some level of distrust. I could see some overzealous LE in one of the occupied city/counties (or even as non official policy) arresting/charging first knowing they wont win, but that on the street you lose and will have legal fees later.
Example. Look at Lori Sain. No charges were filed, but she got to spend 30 some hours becoming antiquated with the Denver County Jail.
Alternatively there's an extremely simple chain of case law you can follow that makes you completely exempt from the law. Legally.
Alternatively there's an extremely simple chain of case law you can follow that makes you completely exempt from the law. Legally.
An FFL?
Great-Kazoo
08-03-2018, 21:40
It is a discussion how someone could be in compliance with the letter of the law.
Lets take a different example.
Lets say a person has a certain amount of Magpul 308 AR mags. But as there were not a lot available before the ban, the person doesnt have "enough" of them (i mean who every has "enough" mags?). So the option is to get a 10 round mag. But the person wants as many round as possible. So a solution is buy a 20 rounder (with the molding date on it) and then block off 5 round permanently. Then the person has a legal 15 round magazine.
But how does one "permanently modify it" and how would one go about legally acquiring the parts to make a legal magazine from a higher capacity magazine. The 20 round mag is not legal to transfer until it is a 15 round magazine. So by the letter of law it seems the only way to do it would to not buy a magazine but to buy components, modify the components, and then assemble to complete magazine into a 15 round magazine.
I guess some of the question is what do people do to comply if they want to buy magazines that were manufacturer after the ban? Or maybe someone buys a gun for which the manufacturer did not the gun/magazines before 2013?
They buy a 10 or 15 round magazine.
You don't need to be in any form of compliance, at all. UNLESS, Again, you happen to be in possession of mags with a date stamp of 7/13 or newer, try selling greater than 15 round mags to an undercover LE, or media outlet looking to show how many laws gun owners are breaking.
You're over thinking something that isn't worth the time worrying about.
HOWEVER. IF you're that obsessed with some over zealous LE locking you up. Send/ sell me your mags since i no longer reside in CO.
Which leads to my next question. How da fuk is a LE going to be handling / examining any magazine or firearm you have possession of ? When we all know (or should) the second response to any LE after how can i help you officer is..........................NO you may not search my vehicle, or No i do not consent to a search .
No One (to my knowledge) from this gun forum, is able to buy or transfer in to the state ANY magazine that holds greater than 15 rounds. Or are there gun stores that would sell you one.
Curious why you're asking the same or similar question you asked sometime back. At that time i "believe" the answers were the same. There a reason why you're wanting or looking for someone to potentially break the law?
There a reason why you're wanting or looking for someone to potentially break the law?
Exactly the opposite. I want to be in compliance with any new mags.
But we know that you can go to almost any gun show, and there are modified magazines to lower capacity. Even the law says they can be lowered and then legal.
Where I am stuck is the "technicality" of how one would have a post '13 mag and lower the capacity. I 100% agree the chances are low anyone would look.
The problem I see being in compliance with the law is a timing one. After they are lowered they are legal. But before they are not. My question is more of a "how" to do this legally. Or maybe it is impossible for someone in state to do it and the reduced capacity magazines are made out of state and then shipped in. That they way I see it legally able to happen.
There are companies that sell standard capacity magazines and will permanently block the magazines to comply with Colorado and other states laws before shipping them to you.
the other option is to buy the individual parts and block the magazine body before assembling, the law states that no one shall make or assemble a magazine over 15 rounds. If you block it before assembling it you have never made/assembled or possessed a magazine over 15 rounds.
the other option is to buy the individual parts and block the magazine body before assembling, the law states that no one shall make or assemble a magazine over 15 rounds. If you block it before assembling it you have never made/assembled or possessed a magazine over 15 rounds.
I think this is what I am wondering if it is "legal" for an individual to do it.
Nothing like trying to navigate ambiguous laws.
The law only states that you may not buy or assemble a magazine over 15 rounds so yes it is legal for an individual to assemble a 15 round or less magazine.
Though I haven't quoted the specific verbage if you read it it is pretty clear, I don't see where there is any ambiguity.
As for "permanent" modification vs non the term in general for most firearms related things has meant that the item in question cannot be reverted back without using tools. A loose block in a magazine could be considered easily convertible as all you would do is remove a base plate without any tools and pull the block out, a rivet would likely be considered a permanent fix as it could only be defeated via using tools such as a drill which would then be interpreted as you physically modifying an existing product.
Will1776
08-05-2018, 20:53
The law says “designed to be readily converted”, the mag block is not designed to be readily converted and companies like Charlie Coopers based in CO will ship the 30s with just the mag block right to you. (I don’t get anything from them, I’ve just had a good experience with their mags and service)
The law only states that you may not buy or assemble a magazine over 15 rounds so yes it is legal for an individual to assemble a 15 round or less magazine.
Though I haven't quoted the specific verbage if you read it it is pretty clear, I don't see where there is any ambiguity.
As for "permanent" modification vs non the term in general for most firearms related things has meant that the item in question cannot be reverted back without using tools. A loose block in a magazine could be considered easily convertible as all you would do is remove a base plate without any tools and pull the block out, a rivet would likely be considered a permanent fix as it could only be defeated via using tools such as a drill which would then be interpreted as you physically modifying an existing product.
I like your definition of "without tools"
With tools, nothing is permanent.
The law only states that you may not buy or assemble a magazine over 15 rounds so yes it is legal for an individual to assemble a 15 round or less magazine.
Though I haven't quoted the specific verbage if you read it it is pretty clear, I don't see where there is any ambiguity.
As for "permanent" modification vs non the term in general for most firearms related things has meant that the item in question cannot be reverted back without using tools. A loose block in a magazine could be considered easily convertible as all you would do is remove a base plate without any tools and pull the block out, a rivet would likely be considered a permanent fix as it could only be defeated via using tools such as a drill which would then be interpreted as you physically modifying an existing product.
The ambiguity to me is "are the components legal to buy if not assembled"?
Maybe I read too much into it. I think it is sorta like an NFA type thing where someone says it is constructive intent.
An FFL?No, you simply state you are a magazine manufacturer, which is exempted from the mag ban. You can do business as your legal name without a license. You do not have to file taxes on any business you do not make more than $400 in a year on, including a DBA your name.
Therefore you're exempt from the mag law and taxes on that business or even having to file.
SideShow Bob
08-12-2018, 11:21
As far as the OP’s concern of running into overzealous LEOs while in possession of +15 round magazines, didn’t we have a thread a few years ago from a member here that had a Denver PD officer try to confiscate some +15 round magazines while the member was using the range at Cherry Creek ?
OneGuy67
08-12-2018, 11:29
As far as the OP’s concern of running into overzealous LEOs while in possession of +15 round magazines, didn’t we have a thread a few years ago from a member here that had a Denver PD officer try to confiscate some +15 round magazines while the member was using the range at Cherry Creek ?
While I don't remember this particular incident, a member of the DPD would have no authority at Cherry Creek as it isn't within the Denver city limits/their jurisdiction. It resides in Arapahoe County.
No, you simply state you are a magazine manufacturer, which is exempted from the mag ban. You can do business as your legal name without a license. You do not have to file taxes on any business you do not make more than $400 in a year on, including a DBA your name.
Therefore you're exempt from the mag law and taxes on that business or even having to file.
Very interesting.
They just have to have a date code stamped on them, correct?
SideShow Bob
08-12-2018, 11:44
While I don't remember this particular incident, a member of the DPD would have no authority at Cherry Creek as it isn't within the Denver city limits/their jurisdiction. It resides in Arapahoe County.
I may have misquoted the LE agency. But for some reason I think this was the whole point of the thread, DPD trying to confiscate magazines at Cherry Creek State Park.
Will1776
08-12-2018, 14:01
The AG back in 2013 stated that a magazine is legal if it requires others items (buying a different follower or floor plate for example) OR permanently alter them (drilling out a rivet for example) to increase capacity. Link below for the actual document from the AG office.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3g-Z1XbiAanSFRuYmlBTERjMGc/edit
Since a mag blocked magazine requires you purchase "additional equipment", which is a different follower to increase its capacity, it would be legal according to the AG without the need to glue the floorplate IMO. If you're like me and shoot in the rain, snow, and dust, being able to clean your magazines is a must.
I believe the whole "designed to be readily converted" part of the law was to ensure removable base plates wouldn't effectively be banned.
Hopefully this helps.
ChadAmberg
08-12-2018, 16:16
It is a discussion how someone could be in compliance with the letter of the law.
Lets take a different example.
Lets say a person has a certain amount of Magpul 308 AR mags. But as there were not a lot available before the ban, the person doesnt have "enough" of them (i mean who every has "enough" mags?). So the option is to get a 10 round mag. But the person wants as many round as possible. So a solution is buy a 20 rounder (with the molding date on it) and then block off 5 round permanently. Then the person has a legal 15 round magazine.
But how does one "permanently modify it" and how would one go about legally acquiring the parts to make a legal magazine from a higher capacity magazine. The 20 round mag is not legal to transfer until it is a 15 round magazine. So by the letter of law it seems the only way to do it would to not buy a magazine but to buy components, modify the components, and then assemble to complete magazine into a 15 round magazine.
I guess some of the question is what do people do to comply if they want to buy magazines that were manufacturer after the ban? Or maybe someone buys a gun for which the manufacturer did not the gun/magazines before 2013?
Think of it this way: The law is poorly written. To answer your question, it would have to have been specified in the law that "Pouring hot glue up to a certain point is acceptable, as is rivets, etc." Instead, it doesn't say anything about it.
So whatever your solution is, it just has to be reasonable to the Game Warden/Police/Prosecutor/Judge and Jury. So, really it's an impossible question to answer. Because reasonable to me is "the existing spring is enough to limit a 100 round mag to 15 rounds because the more you put in the tougher it gets" and to a shitbag gun banner like Polis it's something completely different.
, didn’t we have a thread a few years ago from a member here that had a Denver PD officer try to confiscate some +15 round magazines while the member was using the range at Cherry Creek ?
I have no recollection of anything like this ever happening.
spqrzilla
08-21-2018, 23:34
[fail] So much fail.
[fail] So much fail.
Why?
Great-Kazoo
08-22-2018, 08:50
Can't believe this is still going on.
Here, a quick web search would have sent you to this web site, among 2 others. Spend the $16 for a 3 pack and call it done.
https://www.magazineblocks.com/magento/
bellavite1
12-22-2018, 18:35
So, in order to travel through Denver without issues I limited some PMAGS 20 rounders to 15, with those magazine blocks.
Well, they have just too much tension now and, loading them to 15, I cannot charge the handle and they do not drop free.
Since I am an idiot I already PERMANENTLY attached the floor plates with Loctite.
Maybe a little too permanently...
How can I remove the Loctite to dissassemble the mags and shave just enough from the magblock for correct function?
[Bang][Bang][Bang]
ChickNorris
12-22-2018, 18:56
Not to be flippant but I'd sort the issue by buying new. Why bother futzing.
Denvers mag rules do not apply to persons " traveling through"...only to residents.
bellavite1
12-22-2018, 19:01
Not to be flippant but I'd sort the issue by buying new. Why bother futzing.
Because it pisses my off to throw $60 away like that because of my idiocy...[Rant2]
ChickNorris
12-22-2018, 19:01
Denvers mag rules do not apply to persons " traveling through"...only to residents.
Exactly. Unless you aim to misbehave....
ChickNorris
12-22-2018, 19:05
Because it pisses my off to throw $60 away like that because of my idiocy...[Rant2]
Discard or don't. Lesson learned riiight? ; )
bellavite1
12-22-2018, 19:07
Let me rephrase:
Anybody knows of a method to remove Loctite from an assembled baseplate of a Pmag?
ChickNorris
12-22-2018, 19:08
See below.
ChickNorris
12-22-2018, 19:09
Blue torque.
Red torch.
All I've got. : )
bellavite1
12-22-2018, 19:26
Blue torque.
Red torch.
All I've got. : )
I was hoping for something like acetone or some solvent.
Although, taking a torch to them right now is quite appealing...
Well, thanks anyways.[Beer]
bellavite1
12-22-2018, 19:28
Blue torque.
Red torch.
All I've got. : )
My bad, neither.
Now that I remember it is just plain Superglue (a well deserved name, it turns out...).
ChickNorris
12-22-2018, 19:40
If it IS superglue, you're correct, Acetone.
Great-Kazoo
12-22-2018, 20:57
So, in order to travel through Denver without issues I limited some PMAGS 20 rounders to 15, with those magazine blocks.
Well, they have just too much tension now and, loading them to 15, I cannot charge the handle and they do not drop free.
Since I am an idiot I already PERMANENTLY attached the floor plates with Loctite.
Maybe a little too permanently...
How can I remove the Loctite to dissassemble the mags and shave just enough from the magblock for correct function?
[Bang][Bang][Bang]
Give it a week or two. That loctite will probably eat through the plastic by then.
Still unsure why anyone NOT a Resident of Denver is bothering to do anything other than drive through there.
bellavite1
12-22-2018, 21:32
Give it a week or two. That loctite will probably eat through the plastic by then.
Still unsure why anyone NOT a Resident of Denver is bothering to do anything other than drive through there.
Although not a resident, I do have family living in Denver and avoiding the area is not an option.
Back to the point:
I have read, in relation to the old "Denver assault weapon ban", of confiscations of 30 rounds magazines inside Denver County from non-Denver Co residents.
SUPPOSEDLY, the firearms were also confiscated, falling under the OLD assault weapon definition (a firearm with magazines that accepted more than 20 rounds), and the vehicle seized.
Although not being a resident was indeed to be considered affirmative defense against the charges, the owner had to surrender the weapon in order to get the case dropped, the vehicle returned and avoid a costly legal battle.
How much of this is true, remains to be seen, but it did give me pause.
If somebody has better information I would love to hear more about it, maybe someone with a better Google-Fu than myself could help?
ChickNorris
12-22-2018, 21:37
Although not a resident, I do have family living in Denver and avoiding the area is not an option.
Back to the point:
I have read, in relation to the old "Denver assault weapon ban", of confiscations of 30 rounds magazines inside Denver County from non-Denver Co residents.
SUPPOSEDLY, the firearms were also confiscated, falling under the OLD assault weapon definition (a firearm with magazines that accepted more than 20 rounds), and the vehicle seized.
Although not being a resident was indeed to be considered affirmative defense against the charges, the owner had to surrender the weapon in order to get the case dropped, the vehicle returned and avoid a costly legal battle.
How much of this is true, remains to be seen, but it did give me pause.
If somebody has better information I would love to hear more about it, maybe someone with a better Google-Fu than myself could help?
Denvers mag rules do not apply to persons " traveling through"...only to residents.
Exactly. Unless you aim to misbehave....
If somebody has better information I would love to hear more about it
I know this isn?t the better information you were asking about but I?m just going to toss out my two cents.
If you absolutely, positively feel you must arm yourself while in Denver but fear of having your shit confiscated or your vehicle impounded is a genuine concern for you then why not simply choose a firearm that is more socially acceptable in Denver and just be done with it?
In other words, rather than trying to interpret their bullshit laws and then jump through hoops doing silly things like modifying magazines or whatever, why not just take a decent handgun or if you insist on a long gun perhaps a nice lever action rifle or maybe a pump action shotgun?
bellavite1
12-23-2018, 12:05
I know this isn?t the better information you were asking about but I?m just going to toss out my two cents.
If you absolutely, positively feel you must arm yourself while in Denver but fear of having your shit confiscated or your vehicle impounded is a genuine concern for you then why not simply choose a firearm that is more socially acceptable in Denver and just be done with it?
In other words, rather than trying to interpret their bullshit laws and then jump through hoops doing silly things like modifying magazines or whatever, why not just take a decent handgun or if you insist on a long gun perhaps a nice lever action rifle or maybe a pump action shotgun?
Must travel through Denver Co to get to my rifle range.
Anyways, for those who may be wondering, acetone did it.
I am happy to report that Pmags are impervious to it.
The mag blocks, however, not so much...
ChickNorris
12-23-2018, 12:18
Yay chemistry
Will1776
12-23-2018, 12:24
No need to glue the floorplate in Denver from what I understand of the law. Mag block does the trick
Great-Kazoo
12-23-2018, 18:00
The magic words once used, twice needed. NO Officer I Do Not Consent to a Search of My Vehicle.
APEXgunparts
12-23-2018, 18:14
If you really want to read all the views and points about the Colorado 15 round mag restriction, then I suggest reading all the filings made during the legal battle:
http://coloradoguncase.org/
Lots of good points, and how they were countered.
Also, this one document that was a brief to the Governor by the AG office had been brought to my attention:
http://coloradoguncase.org/AG-brief-PI.pdf
You have to make a point to read the notes.
The AG and the Governor were very sure they covered all the arguments and that the law left NO actual or perceived loopholes to be exploited as had happened before in other states (IE California).
Richard
Will1776
12-23-2018, 22:32
If you really want to read all the views and points about the Colorado 15 round mag restriction, then I suggest reading all the filings made during the legal battle:
http://coloradoguncase.org/
Lots of good points, and how they were countered.
Also, this one document that was a brief to the Governor by the AG office had been brought to my attention:
http://coloradoguncase.org/AG-brief-PI.pdf
You have to make a point to read the notes.
The AG and the Governor were very sure they covered all the arguments and that the law left NO actual or perceived loopholes to be exploited as had happened before in other states (IE California).
Richard
Exactly. In there it says that just because the floor plate is removable doesn't mean it's designed to be readily convertible. The mag block on its own is designed solely to limit capacity so I think it would be fine.
No need to glue the floorplate in Denver from what I understand of the law. Mag block does the trick
The AG-brief that APEX posted seems to answer the question.
Page 28-30 of the Brief
(3) “Designed to be readily converted”
Thus, the entire phrase “designed to be readily converted” means a magazine
that, judged by its objective features, reveals that it is typically used in a way that
is quickly, easily, and efficiently changed from accepting 15 rounds or fewer to more
than 15 rounds. Applied to specific ammunition magazines, this legal standard
easily distinguishes between those that are prohibited and those that are lawful:
• Telescoping Magazine (see Ex. C): An expandable magazine that with
the depression of a single tab, telescopes to a larger-capacity configuration
would be a “large capacity magazine” if the magazine accepted more than
15 rounds of ammunition in its telescoped state.8
• 20-Round AR-15 Magazine with Removable Limiter (see Ex. E): A
20-round magazine with a removable limiter that temporarily prevents it
from accepting more than 15 rounds is a “large capacity magazine.” This
is because the only reason to remove the limiter would be to increase the
capacity of the magazine. Judged objectively, a removable limiter is
designed to enable the magazine to be readily converted from a 15-round
to a 20-round configuration.
• 30-Round AR-15 Magazine with Permanently-Affixed Limiter (see
Ex. F): A similar limiter that has been welded or epoxied to the frame of
the 30-round magazine such that the limiter cannot be removed is not a
“large capacity magazine.” Not only is this magazine not “designed to be
readily converted to accept more than 15 rounds of ammunition”; it has
been “permanently altered” to comply with HB 1224.
• Standard Box Magazine with Removable Baseplate (see Ex. G): The
type of magazine that Plaintiffs most fear would be rendered illegal by HB
1224 is a standard magazine with a removable base plate that accepts 15
or fewer rounds. These types of magazines are not large capacity
magazines. The baseplates themselves do not enable the magazines to be
expanded, and they serve functions aside from expansion—notably, they
allow the magazine to be cleaned and repaired. To actually convert them
to higher capacity, one must purchase additional equipment or
permanently alter their operation mechanically. Unless so altered, they
are not prohibited.
• Magazine coupler (see Ex. H): A coupler that physically attaches two
magazines together (an effect that could be accomplished just as easily
with a few inches of duct tape), and “allows the user to attach two
magazines together for more efficient speed reloads,” would not create a
single large-capacity magazine. Because the second magazine must be
inserted into the firearm separately—and only after the first magazine
has been exhausted—this accessory does not convert two complying
magazines into one non-compliant magazine.
But my original question...
"Is buying parts and cutting magazines down to limit capacity legal as an individual."
I cannot find an answer in the briefs/lawsuits.
Now if APEX would sell me some parts to make 15 rounders.... :)
You have to make a point to read the notes.
The AG and the Governor were very sure they covered all the arguments and that the law left NO actual or perceived loopholes to be exploited as had happened before in other states (IE California).
Richard
Yes.
The Governor is not aware of a magazine currently in production that telescopes
from a less-than-15-round configuration to a greater-than-15-round configuration.
HB 1224, however, was written to ensure that future innovations in the market
could not easily circumvent the 15-round limit on ammunition magazines. See
Exotic Coins, Inc. v. Beacom, 699 P.2d 930, 945 (Colo. 1985) (explaining that
although statute must define criminal offense with sufficient definiteness to give
fair warning of prohibited conduct, it must also be general enough to address
problem under varied circumstances and during changing times). Experience in
other states has shown that some retailers and purchasers will try to exploit any
actual or perceived loophole in such regulations. See Ex. D (San Francisco City
Attorney press release announcing lawsuit against importers of large-capacity
magazine “repair” kits).
It points to : https://www.sfcityattorney.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Complaint.pdf
But the lawsuit is specifically about "large capacity" parts kits to essentially make large capacity magazine.
To be clear. I was asking the opposite. Parts to build 15 or less magazines.
Not all weapons have 15 round or less mags available and the only way to get them is:
1. Buy ones already converted to reduced rounds.
2. If legal, buy parts and modify them personally to less than 15 rounds.
Will1776
12-24-2018, 21:33
The AG-brief that APEX posted seems to answer the question.
Page 28-30 of the Brief
(3) “Designed to be readily converted”
Thus, the entire phrase “designed to be readily converted” means a magazine
that, judged by its objective features, reveals that it is typically used in a way that
is quickly, easily, and efficiently changed from accepting 15 rounds or fewer to more
than 15 rounds. Applied to specific ammunition magazines, this legal standard
easily distinguishes between those that are prohibited and those that are lawful:
• Telescoping Magazine (see Ex. C): An expandable magazine that with
the depression of a single tab, telescopes to a larger-capacity configuration
would be a “large capacity magazine” if the magazine accepted more than
15 rounds of ammunition in its telescoped state.8
• 20-Round AR-15 Magazine with Removable Limiter (see Ex. E): A
20-round magazine with a removable limiter that temporarily prevents it
from accepting more than 15 rounds is a “large capacity magazine.” This
is because the only reason to remove the limiter would be to increase the
capacity of the magazine. Judged objectively, a removable limiter is
designed to enable the magazine to be readily converted from a 15-round
to a 20-round configuration.
• 30-Round AR-15 Magazine with Permanently-Affixed Limiter (see
Ex. F): A similar limiter that has been welded or epoxied to the frame of
the 30-round magazine such that the limiter cannot be removed is not a
“large capacity magazine.” Not only is this magazine not “designed to be
readily converted to accept more than 15 rounds of ammunition”; it has
been “permanently altered” to comply with HB 1224.
• Standard Box Magazine with Removable Baseplate (see Ex. G): The
type of magazine that Plaintiffs most fear would be rendered illegal by HB
1224 is a standard magazine with a removable base plate that accepts 15
or fewer rounds. These types of magazines are not large capacity
magazines. The baseplates themselves do not enable the magazines to be
expanded, and they serve functions aside from expansion—notably, they
allow the magazine to be cleaned and repaired. To actually convert them
to higher capacity, one must purchase additional equipment or
permanently alter their operation mechanically. Unless so altered, they
are not prohibited.
• Magazine coupler (see Ex. H): A coupler that physically attaches two
magazines together (an effect that could be accomplished just as easily
with a few inches of duct tape), and “allows the user to attach two
magazines together for more efficient speed reloads,” would not create a
single large-capacity magazine. Because the second magazine must be
inserted into the firearm separately—and only after the first magazine
has been exhausted—this accessory does not convert two complying
magazines into one non-compliant magazine.
Is that saying that just the block is good enough, but epoxy or whatever would help further? It says "not only is this magazine not designed to be....."
Great-Kazoo
12-24-2018, 22:48
But my original question...
"Is buying parts and cutting magazines down to limit capacity legal as an individual."
I cannot find an answer in the briefs/lawsuits.
Now if APEX would sell me some parts to make 15 rounders.... :)
Had you not glossed over post 35 from 4 months ago that was answered for you with a link. Keep your mags, shove these limiters in them and call it good. Not to hard to figure out.
https://www.magazineblocks.com/magento/
All my mags only hold 15 rounds...and 6 Kleenex, a striker, and a small fishing kit. You guys don't know about "survival" mags.
Had you not glossed over post 35 from 4 months ago that was answered for you with a link. Keep your mags, shove these limiters in them and call it good. Not to hard to figure out.
https://www.magazineblocks.com/magento/
Keep the mags is not the question. If I have pre-July 13 mags then leave them as is.
From the original post...
But I dont want to modify my pre '13 mags to lower capacity. I want "new" limited mags but not all weapons can they be purchased for. As an example, try finding 15 round [or less] Sterling mags. I think the only way to get them is to cut them down or block them. But on obscure mags, find pre-altered mags is hard.
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Maybe it has been glossed over, but the question has been how to legally make 15 round mags when they aren't available pre-made.
There is a time when you either have post July '13 parts that could be assembled into high capacity, you have have post July '13 high capacity mags, but then they are modified to 15 round. There is an "in between time" where they are post-July 13 parts/mags and when modified down to the limit.
It is possible to buy pre-blocked 15 rounders, but not every mag is available that way or some places dont want to take responsibility and make reduced count mags for obscure mags. Many places also wont ship "parts kits" (I suspect because of the SF letter / lawsuit) to make reduced capacity mags (which makes finding sources of obscure mags hard).
If I was just asking about AR mags, it is easy., Google-foo will pull up modified AR mags. Some are done better than others.
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