View Full Version : Fresh Hell in Frederick - Shanann Watts
ChickNorris
08-16-2018, 14:46
Thanks Skip
Latest...
Body thought to be missing Frederick mom Shanann Watts found; investigators recovering girls' bodies
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/crime/body-thought-to-be-missing-frederick-mom-shanann-watts-found-investigators-recovering-girls-bodies
Colorado Bureau of Investigation Director John Camper confirmed that the woman believed to be Watts was discovered on land owned by Anadarko Petroleum Company. Anadarko spokeswoman Jennifer Brice confirmed that 33-year-old Chris Watts worked for the company as well, though the company said later Thursday morning that Watts was no longer employed by the company. He was arrested in connection to her death and that of their children Wednesday night.
In the future, when you start a thread, explain what you are talking about, and if possible, use a link. I knew what you were talking about because I saw the other thread and heard the news, but not everyone will.
ChickNorris
08-16-2018, 15:29
In the future, when you start a thread, explain what you are talking about, and if possible, use a link. I knew what you were talking about because I saw the other thread and heard the news, but not everyone will.
Understood. Thanks.
Sent a request for a title amendment - Thank you WillysWagon
Zundfolge
08-16-2018, 15:35
How many of y'all secretly, deep down inside got a little excited when you thought you read that Shannon Watts might be dead? [Muaha]
Understood. Thanks. Sent a request for a title amendment.
Also, I don't work here and don't make any rules. Just giving some helpful advice.
How many of y'all secretly, deep down inside got a little excited when you thought you read that Shannon Watts might be dead? [Muaha]
Yes, but I won't admit it
How many of y'all secretly, deep down inside got a little excited when you thought you read that Shannon Watts might be dead? [Muaha]
Had to Google that name.....
BladesNBarrels
08-16-2018, 16:28
Had to Google that name.....
Me, too!
"The day after the Sandy Hook tragedy, Shannon started a Facebook group with the message that all Americans can and should do more to reduce gun violence. The online conversation turned into grassroots movement of American mothers fighting for public safety measures that respect the Second Amendment and protect people from gun violence. Moms Demand Action has established a chapter in every state of the country and is part of Everytown for Gun Safety, the largest gun violence prevention organization in the country, with more than four million supporters. In addition to her work with Moms Demand Action, Watts is an active board member of Emerge America and Rise to Run, two of the nation’s leading organizations for recruiting and training women to run for office."
75715
I hate to be crass sounding maybe, but this sounds like motive that I theorized before further news.He was tired of her blowing all the money probably paired with possibly a loss in oncome when he lost or changed jobs. Money troubled and having a 3rd kid when one already had medical complications extra stress.
Most of their debt stemmed from credit card purchases from such retailers as Furniture Row, Sears, Macy’s, American Furniture and Toys R Us.
I recognized her name, she was super heavy into selling one of those dumb health/weight loss gimmick pyramid scheme things. What sucks about those is you end up spending more than you ever earn.
IN NO WAY am I saying any of that if true is justification, just open pondering of his motivation.
https://www.9news.com/mobile/article/news/local/investigations/financial-issues-plagued-chris-and-shanann-watts-3-years-before-alleged-killings/73-584822605
clodhopper
08-16-2018, 16:51
How many of y'all secretly, deep down inside got a little excited when you thought you read that Shannon Watts might be dead? [Muaha]
Nope. I would never wish death on anyone. Publicly discredited and rapid return to obscurity however.....
IN NO WAY am I saying any of that if true is justification, just open pondering of his motivation.
https://www.9news.com/mobile/article/news/local/investigations/financial-issues-plagued-chris-and-shanann-watts-3-years-before-alleged-killings/73-584822605
So...what was the motivation for killing his kids?
Rucker61
08-16-2018, 17:02
So...what was the motivation for killing his kids?
I'll never understand that part.
Zundfolge
08-16-2018, 17:59
Had to Google that name.....
Me, too!
I'm disappointed in you guys ... she lives in Boulder.
Next round of gun control we get in CO, I guarantee her fingerprints will be on it.
Nope. I would never wish death on anyone. Publicly discredited and rapid return to obscurity however.....
Not going to wish death on her ... but if it happens I can't have a little Schadenfreude?
So...what was the motivation for killing his kids?
Knew their lives forever messed up with parents gone or blaming the kids for a a bulk of the financial stress from medical and regular shopping spoiling.
I am suprised he had nice truck, those homes were in 400k range iirc, so soon after a bank ruptsy.
In the news articles, her name is spelled Shanann Watts. Googling that name, none of the anti-gun stuff pops up.
Googling Shannon Watts, all the anti-gun stuff pops up, along with the Shanann Watts kidnapping.
Are they different people? Or just a misspelling by one or more reporters?
ETA:
Shannon Watts is a mother of five who, prior to founding Moms Demand Action, was a stay-at-home mom and former communications executive.
I'm disappointed in you guys ... she lives in Boulder.
Well, I stay far the hell away from Boulder, that's my excuse.....
bellavite1
08-16-2018, 20:20
How many of y'all secretly, deep down inside got a little excited when you thought you read that Shannon Watts might be dead? [Muaha]
Guilty as charged...[Flower]
The husband should be slow roasted after being flayed. Unfortunately, he'll likely just be incarcerated for the next 40 years.
Zundfolge
08-17-2018, 06:49
Are they different people? Or just a misspelling by one or more reporters?
They are different people.
Ok, I've beat this joke into the ground ... what happened to this poor woman and her kids at the hands of her husband in Frederick is pretty tragic. :p
I will never understand how people can make the leap from being mad or frustrated at someone to it then being acceptable to kill them. Especially their kids...... WTF!!!
Not much new info today other than LE believes the murders happened in the house and they believe they have recovered all of the bodies.
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/chris-watts-case/chris-watts-case-everything-we-know-so-far-about-the-alleged-murders-of-his-wife-daughters
Lots of speculation over motive. Also talked about selling the house.
If they have a confession, they probably have the motive and just haven't released it.
StagLefty
08-17-2018, 11:04
After the channel 7 interview and then the news the next day that he'd murdered all of them I hope he rots in hell !!!!
Grant H.
08-17-2018, 11:35
Damn you are all quick to convict and execute him... Especially on hearsay that's 3 years old...
Good thing we live in America where its guilty till proven innocent... er... wait...
ChickNorris
08-17-2018, 11:40
Cowards hurt little girls. That right there is enough evil to be done with him.
Damn you are all quick to convict and execute him... Especially on hearsay that's 3 years old...
Good thing we live in America where its guilty till proven innocent... er... wait...
He confessed. He confessed QUICKLY.
The body language he displayed on television was damning, in and of itself.
I read that they found the bodies of the children in "almost full oil tanks." presumably to hide the smell.
Grant H.
08-17-2018, 12:45
He confessed. He confessed QUICKLY.
The body language he displayed on television was damning, in and of itself.
I read that they found the bodies of the children in "almost full oil tanks." presumably to hide the smell.
Okay. Hadn't followed enough to know that he had confessed (my bad). I tend to ignore the news when I am on the road for work.
Thank goodness we can't convict on "damning" body language though...
Side note:
I'd be curious to know what "oil tanks" they are referring too... The only access into actual oil tanks on pads are the "thief hatches" and the tanks that APC have small openings... If it was a new facility, they might have had temporary water tanks that you could get bodies into. Sounds like the usual reporting of anything, embellished and slanted to make it sound worse.
He confessed. He confessed QUICKLY.
The body language he displayed on television was damning, in and of itself.
I read that they found the bodies of the children in "almost full oil tanks." presumably to hide the smell.
Yes, thank you.
And once I got over the evil aspect (or "complexity") of this I'm left scratching my head over the whole thing. To have a completely stupid plan and then keep up an act for two days, only to confess. Just pointless and heartbreaking.
Okay. Hadn't followed enough to know that he had confessed (my bad). I tend to ignore the news when I am on the road for work.
Thank goodness we can't convict on "damning" body language though...
Side note:
I'd be curious to know what "oil tanks" they are referring too... The only access into actual oil tanks on pads are the "thief hatches" and the tanks that APC have small openings... If it was a new facility, they might have had temporary water tanks that you could get bodies into. Sounds like the usual reporting of anything, embellished and slanted to make it sound worse.
It happened with surprising speed. I think his confession (credited, in part, to the brother-in-law's post on Facebook- of all things) caught everyone off guard.
And you'd be surprised. Body language isn't some sort of hoodoo. In fact, Terry vs. Ohio 1968, 392 US 1 was a landmark case in which the Supreme Court granted legal recognition to the connection between body language (nonverbal communication) and behaviors. Law enforcement officers and those of us in the private sector utilize this resource quite a bit.
I know nothing of the "oil tanks" or actually where the children were found; I am waiting with dread and apprehension as to the remainder of the actual information. Silver linings in this news are nearly nonexistent. :(
Grant H.
08-17-2018, 13:30
It happened with surprising speed. I think his confession (credited, in part, to the brother-in-law's post on Facebook- of all things) caught everyone off guard.
And you'd be surprised. Body language isn't some sort of hoodoo. In fact, Terry vs. Ohio 1968, 392 US 1 was a landmark case in which the Supreme Court granted legal recognition to the connection between body language (nonverbal communication) and behaviors. Law enforcement officers and those of us in the private sector utilize this resource quite a bit.
I know nothing of the "oil tanks" or actually where the children were found; I am waiting with dread and apprehension as to the remainder of the actual information. Silver linings in this news are nearly nonexistent. :(
Note, I never said body language couldn't be used. I only said that we can't convict on it, with my implication being solely on body language.
Yes, I'm aware that LEO and others use body language to read a situation, and I'm also aware that it is OFTEN wrong.
Anyway. Dbags come in all walks of life, and this guy is no different.
Note, I never said body language couldn't be used. I only said that we can't convict on it, with my implication being solely on body language.
Yes, I'm aware that LEO and others use body language to read a situation, and I'm also aware that it is OFTEN wrong.
Anyway. Dbags come in all walks of life, and this guy is no different.
Well, nobody was convicting on body language alone- nor was it being suggested. It's a tool to be used in conjunction with investigations. But the televised interview was enough to raise a lot of questions and doubt.
Most of the buzz now on the news is for motive. I can't imagine a motive that would justify such a heinous, heinous act.
Jeffrey Lebowski
08-17-2018, 20:36
Absolutely awful, and I agree, before confession when I saw the interview I thought it quite off. :(
Is there a link to this press conference?
Wife said everyone on Facebook was talking about how they thought he did it before the confession came out.
Is there a link to this press conference?
Wife said everyone on Facebook was talking about how they thought he did it before the confession came out.
I've been following 7 and they have one of his interviews half way down the page...
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/chris-watts-case/chris-watts-case-everything-we-know-so-far-about-the-alleged-murders-of-his-wife-daughters
I can't embed or I would.
Full interview...
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/crime/video-chris-watts-pleads-for-kids-wife-to-return-day-before-his-arrest-in-their-murders
Rucker61
08-17-2018, 21:59
I used to think being fed feet first into a wood chipper was the appropriate punish for child killers, now I think having their abdomen slit open and a shovel full of red hot coals dropped in.
In case you guys missed it the defense attorney filed a motion for dna testing of the children, it was granted. A second motion to have their own choice of collection done was denied. Can see where this could go towards the shitbags state of mind.
I’m unplugging this weekend, don’t need to hear anymore for a couple days.
What does the own choice of collection mean?
How does an uncontested bankruptcy in 2015 that received a discharge that same year have ANYTHING to do with motive for murder in 2018?
This is fake news with about a 0.001% factual basis, created because a journalist wanted to invent a story and had a pacer account. No information was presented of there being any current financial difficulties, or former, for that matter. (Presuming people who file to be broke or suffering "hardships" even at the time they filed simply because they filed is a very stupid presumption to make...)
Again, as with basically all judicial process, what people think bankruptcy is and what it actually is are two vastly different animals.
It's evidence of struggle or turmoil above and beyond what most people face. Bankruptcy, can and should be a wake-up call, to anyone near or the subject of such an extraordinary circumstance.
Just like Debtor's prison, bankruptcy is never fun.
-John
What does the own choice of collection mean?
The defense wanted to have the collection done by an entity of their choosing. Sorry for not being clear, I was tired after a long day. Hope this clarifies it.
What does that request hope to prove? He confessed, so are they looking for third party DNA? If so, why?
Arrest warrant unsealed Monday. Maybe we'll know more then.
Seems to hint at strangulation...
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/chris-watts-case/chris-watts-case-everything-we-know-so-far-about-the-alleged-murders-of-his-wife-daughters
Chris Watts' attorneys request for DNA samples suggest daughters were strangled
Newly released court documents in the case obtained by Denver7 suggest the two young girls may have been strangled.
The implication came in a motion filed by defense attorneys in Weld County court to compel the coroner to take DNA from the necks and throats of the remains of Bella and Celeste
In the motion, DNA expert Richard Eikelenboom concludes that DNA evidence “would remain on the necks of the decedent children.”
Eikelenboom writes, “After samples are taken the nails should be cut preserved. I have a lot experience taking samples from dead bodies getting good results after strangulation.”
Defense argument: He came home, found his family murdered, and then went and hid them in his employers oil tanks cause he was scared, and then the police tricked him into a false confession. The DNA on their necks belongs to a squirrel that fell in the oil, not him, so he's innocent.
Sounds like he'd be a good buddy to Michael Blagg in the can.
This makes sense but, wow. That's going to be an uphill battle in trial. I guess the public defender has to come up with some kind of defense.
Or maybe claiming she killed the kids and he offed her? At this point anything crazy could come out of it. Better than exploding houses for my sake though.
What fitz19d said. Also if they collect dna from the bodies besides on the neck I wonder if paternity will become an issue-another thing that could've led to their "heated discussion". Eh, who knows-wouldn't mind seeing this be a death penalty case though I won't hold my breath.
The law recognizes that false confessions happen. As a result a confession is not enough evidence to convict someone, more serious crimes need more evidence. The prosecutors will need this evidence to get a conviction and the defense will need it to make their arguments, which I'd guess will be an attempt to spare his life.
It will be interesting to see if the evidence supports his story.
^ I agree.
In this case, the defendent confessed and knew where bodies were. That doesn't look good at all for the defense.
Husband was having affair, admits to strangling wife.
Looks like he is trying to skate on the murder of the kids.
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/chris-watts-case/affidavit-chris-watts-was-having-affair-claimed-wife-tried-to-kill-daughters-before-he-killed-her
Confessed.
No need for trial and lengthy jail term. Straight to execution chamber.
He's trying to say the wife strangled the kids after he told the wife about his affair and that he wanted them to separate...and then convieniently left the room, and when he came back, he saw the wife strangling their youngest (after strangling their eldest first). He "flew into a rage" and strangled her, then packed everyone into the car. He buried the wife in a shallow grave, but the two children went into some sort of oil well (or oil tank, depending on the news source.) I bet he was hoping that the oil would remove any evidence of his DNA from the children's throats. Otherwise, why not bury the children with their mother?
Speechless...
https://www.facebook.com/frankie.rzucek/posts/1895350973837357
I don't think it was premeditated. It makes zero difference at this point. There is movie with a similar plot. I think it's called The Square if I remember correctly.
None of the steps you used as an example had to have happened before any killing.
I think foxtrot is right on track. He took the time to put on gloves. That is NOT a snap decision. I also think he had thought out where to dispose of the bodies.
He's an obvious liar. Stood right in front of camera's and lied from the get go.
IMO, he's a killer of three innocents.
Investigators take:
[snip]
Well thought out/said.
When I saw the news yesterday (and quickly posted) I thought back to your earlier post. None of his behavior adds up with the newly released reason for the DNA test. The first rational thought a parent would have is as you laid out. No parent would think about hiding the bodies (unless he was the murderer).
There does seem to be a kind of person who thinks this is a solution (complex?).
Zundfolge
08-21-2018, 09:36
Premeditated simply means planned.
And the threshold for what constitutes "planned" is pretty low. For example if you're in an argument with your boss while you're routinely CCWing and you draw your gun and shoot him in the heat of the argument, you can make the argument that it wasn't "premeditated". But if you go out to your car, get a gun and come back in and shoot him, that's enough planning to count as "premeditated".
I'd argue that this guy did enough "heavy thought" to get premeditated to stick even if he decided to murder them only minutes before he did it (although I suspect he'd planned it days in advance).
Martinjmpr
08-21-2018, 11:07
And the threshold for what constitutes "planned" is pretty low. For example if you're in an argument with your boss while you're routinely CCWing and you draw your gun and shoot him in the heat of the argument, you can make the argument that it wasn't "premeditated". But if you go out to your car, get a gun and come back in and shoot him, that's enough planning to count as "premeditated".
I'd argue that this guy did enough "heavy thought" to get premeditated to stick even if he decided to murder them only minutes before he did it (although I suspect he'd planned it days in advance).
That's correct. There's also the legal issue of "what do we KNOW?" vs. "what can we PROVE?"
From a legal standpoint, the difference between 1st and 2nd degree murder is simply that in a 2nd degree murder charge, pre-meditation is not an "element of the crime" that has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
There are lots of murders that are prosecuted as 2nd degree murder where it's pretty clear there was likely some premeditation involved, simply because the prosecutor decided it would be more difficult to get a 1st degree conviction since it would be difficult or contentious to prove "pre-meditation."
By reducing the charge from 1st to 2nd, the issue of pre-meditation simply drops off the table as that doesn't have to be proven as an element of the crime in order to convict.
And in states without the death penalty (or in states like CO which technically has a death penalty but it isn't used) there is often very little practical difference in sentencing between 1st and 2nd degree anyway, so why risk losing a trial over a difference that ultimately isn't going to matter when it comes to sentencing?
Guy's going to spend the rest of his life in prison, does it really matter if the sentence is 1st or 2nd degree?
[snip]
And in states without the death penalty (or in states like CO which technically has a death penalty but it isn't used) there is often very little practical difference in sentencing between 1st and 2nd degree anyway, so why risk losing a trial over a difference that ultimately isn't going to matter when it comes to sentencing?
Guy's going to spend the rest of his life in prison, does it really matter if the sentence is 1st or 2nd degree?
Good point, and not to sidetrack, but I wonder what will happen. All the PC narratives say it should be fine to execute this POS (he isn't protected by identity status AFAIK).
Homes didn't get it. Can't put Dunlap in the ground. Does a CO DA/jury have the stones to end him after murdering three innocent people in cold blood so he could be with his side piece? And if they don't, what does that say about our state?
---
Pregnant mom's murder ignites debate over Colorado laws involving unborn children
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/360/pregnant-mom-s-murder-ignites-debate-over-colorado-laws-involving-unborn-children
Did they mean fetuses?
“Colorado requires that the child live outside of the mother’s womb independently and then be killed as a result of something that occurs then," said Garnett.
There are 40 year olds who can't live independently of their mothers. I think this should be revisited.
For the children.
Martinjmpr
08-21-2018, 11:36
Good point, and not to sidetrack, but I wonder what will happen. All the PC narratives say it should be fine to execute this POS (he isn't protected by identity status AFAIK).
Homes didn't get it. Can't put Dunlap in the ground. Does a CO DA/jury have the stones to end him after murdering three innocent people in cold blood so he could be with his side piece? And if they don't, what does that say about our state?
Assuming he's charged with 1st degree murder, the prosecutor can certainly ASK for a death sentence, but whether he is actually sentenced to death is up to a jury, which has to find in favor of the death penalty unanimously.
Or to put it another way, his lawyer only has to find ONE juror that is squeamish about the death penalty in order to keep it from being imposed.
Which means that for all practical purposes, there is no death penalty in CO and given that capital cases are longer and much more expensive for the judicial district, it doesn't make sense for a prosecutor to ask for a death sentence unless he thinks he might lose his job if he doesn't which seems unlikely in this case.
In the case of Holmes, then yes, that DA would likely have faced political repercussions if he HADN'T asked for the death penalty, but I would argue that was a very special and unique case.
Well thought out/said.
The first rational thought a parent would have is as you laid out. No parent would think about hiding the bodies (unless he was the murderer).
I disagree with this. Not trying to defend the guy, but I have, and think we all have, seen people first hand do strange things in a moment of panic.
I must have missed something about gloves, I've pretty much been getting my info from here. Was him wearing gloves part of his confession, or is this just an assumption that he was wearing gloves?
As to the reference to the movie, it is the same formula for every disaster movie where someone makes an initial bad decision, then keeps adding increasingly poor decisions to try and recover, but ultimately sealing their own demise.
I disagree with this. Not trying to defend the guy, but I have, and think we all have, seen people first hand do strange things in a moment of panic.
I must have missed something about gloves, I've pretty much been getting my info from here. Was him wearing gloves part of his confession, or is this just an assumption that he was wearing gloves?
As to the reference to the movie, it is the same formula for every disaster movie where someone makes an initial bad decision, then keeps adding increasingly poor decisions to try and recover, but ultimately sealing their own demise.
You don't come up with a calculated plan of where to hide the bodies (oil tanks at your employer) without leaving the panic stage.
It's not like he put a sheet over them and walked out of the room. I would understand that if he just lost it and couldn't deal. But he loaded the bodies up, drove there, and used the tanks. At some point his mind made a rational plan of how/where to hide the bodies and thought it would work. Not sure if that happened before or after the murders, but he had a plan and executed.
It's also not like the first time LE asked about his kids he told the whole truth. He kept up that act for a couple of days.
Martinjmpr
08-21-2018, 12:38
I disagree with this. Not trying to defend the guy, but I have, and think we all have, seen people first hand do strange things in a moment of panic.
I must have missed something about gloves, I've pretty much been getting my info from here. Was him wearing gloves part of his confession, or is this just an assumption that he was wearing gloves?
As to the reference to the movie, it is the same formula for every disaster movie where someone makes an initial bad decision, then keeps adding increasingly poor decisions to try and recover, but ultimately sealing their own demise.
I'm very skeptical of an argument that goes "he didn't react the way I would have reacted." To me, that is a hallmark of lazy, sloppy thinking.
You see it all the time on the "wife murder of the week" TV programs (20/20, 48 hrs, etc) and it always bothers me. Typically the "argument" goes "XXXX's wife was killed and he 'didn't grieve the way I thought he should have'" or "He didn't act the way most people would have in those circumstances."
To me there are two huge flaws in that line of reasoning: First of all, there is the ASSUMPTION that you KNOW how you would react to, say, finding your wife stabbed to death in a pool of blood in your house.
You can say "I would have done XXX" or "I would have done YYYY" but the truth is, until something like that actually happens to you, you don't REALLY know how you would react. So to me, that is error #1.
Error #2 then compounds error #1 because the witness will then filter what the suspect did or didn't do through his own perceptions - which are often based on "confirmation bias" anyway. IOW, if you are predisposed to think of Joe Suspect as a creepy guy, then whatever he does -whether it's wailing in the street, gnashing his teeth and rending his clothes ["I thought he was overdoing it"], or sitting quietly at home ["it was like he had no emotion at all"] - is going to be "proof" because "He didn't act the way I thought he should have acted under those circumstances."
The reality is that different people react differently to extreme situations. Some people collapse into a pool of tears and helplessness. Others snap into "robot mode" so they can deal with life. There's no "right" or "wrong" way to deal with a tragic or horrific situation so the argument that says "he must be guilty because he didn't react in exactly the way I think I would have reacted" is a lazy one.
So, yes, to me the argument that "a normal parent would have done XXXX" doesn't hold much water and trying to argue against a defense that way IMO is allowing the defense to lead you down the rabbit hole.
Better to just focus on the facts available (which seem to be more than enough to convict, and we don't even know all of them yet) rather than to try and argue about what "most people" would do under such-and-such circumstance.
You don't come up with a calculated plan of where to hide the bodies (oil tanks at your employer) without leaving the panic stage.
It's not like he put a sheet over them and walked out of the room. I would understand that if he just lost it and couldn't deal. But he loaded the bodies up, drove there, and used the tanks. At some point his mind made a rational plan of how/where to hide the bodies and thought it would work. Not sure if that happened before or after the murders, but he had a plan and executed.
It's also not like the first time LE asked about his kids he told the whole truth. He kept up that act for a couple of days.
Sounds like we're mostly on the same page. Obviously at some point he had the idea to stash the bodies. But that he stashed the bodies is zero evidence of planning ahead. Again, it doesn't really matter. They are dead, he's confessed to killing them. Shame all around.
What you said.
Yes, exactly.
Martinjmpr
08-21-2018, 12:50
BTW one of Napoleon's most famous sayings is "Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
In terms of cases like this one, I think the best prosecution strategy would be to simply allow the defendant to tell his ridiculous story to the jury. Let the jury be the ones to roll their eyes and say "Are you f***ing kidding me with this?"
Telling an obviously ludicrous story actually makes the defendant look MORE guilty than if he would just STFU.
Sounds like we're mostly on the same page. Obviously at some point he had the idea to stash the bodies. But that he stashed the bodies is zero evidence of planning ahead. Again, it doesn't really matter. They are dead, he's confessed to killing them. Shame all around.
Yeah, it's not going to go well for him at trial.
I think he's only confessed to killing the wife. I might be wrong...
I'm being guilty of looking at a situation through my own lens, but to me the biggest red flag is that he shaved his head and beard. You can tell when a woman has ended a relationship when she changes her hairstyle. That was the very first thought that I had when I saw the difference in his appearance between the two interviews.
Yeah, it's not going to go well for him at trial.
I think he's only confessed to killing the wife. I might be wrong...
No I believe you're correct, but there is little hope he'll be able to concoct a story that will convince a jury. Guys like him rub other humans the wrong way.
Martinjmpr
08-21-2018, 13:06
My prediction: DA offers to take the death penalty off the table if he cops to 1st or 2nd degree and life in prison w/o parole and he takes it.
There's no scenario where he walks free from this. None.
No I believe you're correct, but there is little hope he'll be able to concoct a story that will convince a jury. Guys like him rub other humans the wrong way.
That happens when you murder your strongest allies.
Well yeah, but I think you know what I meant.
Well yeah, but I think you know what I meant.
Of course. ;)
My prediction: DA offers to take the death penalty off the table if he cops to 1st or 2nd degree and life in prison w/o parole and he takes it.
There's no scenario where he walks free from this. None.
Should that piss us off?
That's not even letting the jury decide when the evidence is beyond any doubt (let alone reasonable).
Martinjmpr
08-21-2018, 13:28
Should that piss us off?
That's not even letting the jury decide when the evidence is beyond any doubt (let alone reasonable).
If a life sentence without parole is a foregone conclusion (and IMO it is) then what is the point? While the DA certainly has to consider the political fallout of such a choice, he also has to make decisions regarding how much of the taxpayer's money he's going to spend on a trial (and it would be a LOT, especially if he asks for the death penalty) when the outcome is not likely to change.
IIRC Hickenlooper already declared a "moratorium" on the death penalty anyway, which means that even if the defense couldn't find ONE juror opposed to the death penalty (unlikely that they wouldn't be able to find ONE and one is all they need) the governor would likely commute the sentence to life w/o parole. So if they can get that anyway without a trial, what would be the point of spending the money on a death penalty trial?
Money is a zero sum game. Every dollar that is spent on Watt's trial is a dollar that can't be spent on something else, perhaps something that may be of more value to this judicial district.
And that doesn't even take into account the emotional toll of having Shannan Watt's family re-live the horror as witnesses and as spectators.
EDIT: Regarding the cost of death penalty trials, consider that most of that cost is expended to benefit the defendant. He has to have 1st class legal representation (which is not cheap!) and he has to be allowed to call expert witnesses - who are paid for by guess who (if you guessed "the taxpayers" you win.)
To put it a different way, when a prosecutor asks for the death penalty he might as well be writing the defendant a check for a million dollars or more because that's what it's going to cost the defense and unless the defendant is wealthy (Watts is not) that cost will be borne by the taxpayers.
BladesNBarrels
08-21-2018, 15:59
...IIRC Hickenlooper already declared a "moratorium" on the death penalty anyway, which means that even if the defense couldn't find ONE juror opposed to the death penalty (unlikely that they wouldn't be able to find ONE and one is all they need) the governor would likely commute the sentence to life w/o parole. ...
Someone tweeted Kyle on Next (Channel 9 at 6:00 pm) that they didn't think Colorado had a death penalty.
Kyle's response was that we have a death penalty, but the current governor won't execute someone on his watch, so it would be up to the next governor.
I thought that pretty well summed up the actions of Gov. Hickenlooper with regard to the Chuck E Cheese convicted murderer from 1993 - His name is not important enough to print.
If a life sentence without parole is a foregone conclusion (and IMO it is) then what is the point? While the DA certainly has to consider the political fallout of such a choice, he also has to make decisions regarding how much of the taxpayer's money he's going to spend on a trial (and it would be a LOT, especially if he asks for the death penalty) when the outcome is not likely to change.
IIRC Hickenlooper already declared a "moratorium" on the death penalty anyway, which means that even if the defense couldn't find ONE juror opposed to the death penalty (unlikely that they wouldn't be able to find ONE and one is all they need) the governor would likely commute the sentence to life w/o parole. So if they can get that anyway without a trial, what would be the point of spending the money on a death penalty trial?
Money is a zero sum game. Every dollar that is spent on Watt's trial is a dollar that can't be spent on something else, perhaps something that may be of more value to this judicial district.
And that doesn't even take into account the emotional toll of having Shannan Watt's family re-live the horror as witnesses and as spectators.
EDIT: Regarding the cost of death penalty trials, consider that most of that cost is expended to benefit the defendant. He has to have 1st class legal representation (which is not cheap!) and he has to be allowed to call expert witnesses - who are paid for by guess who (if you guessed "the taxpayers" you win.)
To put it a different way, when a prosecutor asks for the death penalty he might as well be writing the defendant a check for a million dollars or more because that's what it's going to cost the defense and unless the defendant is wealthy (Watts is not) that cost will be borne by the taxpayers.
Justice and effective disincentives are the point. And a guarantee, no matter what, he is never a threat to anyone. (I know we think he'll do life but there is no preventing bleeding hearts from change that decades from now)
What is the cost? This state is shitting money! We spent $650,000 for Bluecifier!
Cost of incarceration is $39K/inmate/year. We have to deal with nine (?) years of appeals. So we're spending $390K no matter what.
Watts is 33 and will live to 75ish. So 40 years or so of life left, but again ~10 years or so spend on proceedings, so assume 30 years = $1.17M of savings from not having to incarcerate. We can't get him killed by 2028 for $1.17M?!?
If I'm Shanann's family, I want him dead, but the family should really speak out. And it used to be that the victims/family had a say in sentencing. Maybe they should again?
Letting him live with room & board/three squares/medical/dental after what he did doesn't work for me. If I have to re-live the hell that I'm already in, so be it, but a life sentence doesn't offer more closure than death for most folks.
It seems the states with the most hand-wringing Libs spend the most to execute, by design, to make it cost prohibitive rather than the debate the issue on its face. And I think that is the whole problem with CO. Like you said, just one juror and it won't happen. That one juror likely won't be the victim of the next cold-blooded murderer but he/she should know they're the reason why the next case might happen.
The most decent thing we can do as humans is stomp out evil complexity. If the state can't do that in this case, it will really send a strong message, and not a good one.
.455_Hunter
08-21-2018, 17:00
I think we could come up with something involving a slowly filling oil storage tank.
I think we could come up with something involving a slowly filling oil storage tank.
Screw that. The oil has some value, so why contaminate it with that worthless PoS?
Bullets cost pennies.
ChickNorris
08-21-2018, 18:58
Dang, mine cost at least a nickle ea.
I don't think anyone is protesting any of that part.
[snip]
This establishes two points:
1) He expects his DNA will not be reflected on the necks of the daughters.
2) But, by omissions, his DNA will also not be reflected on the neck of Shannan either, a fact he wants to hide from prosecution. (Otherwise, it would assist his case)
So, you do the math. How does he not expect his DNA to appear on any of their three necks, including the one he admitted to strangling? There you go... Always pay special attention to what people want omitted from discovery.
Which is interesting because the manner in which the bodies were hidden makes the absence of his DNA on the girls (#1) unremarkable. I doubt touch DNA would be preserved in an oil tank for two days, but I'm no expert. I'd be skeptical as a juror unless an expert said otherwise.
Guy says he had an affair with Chris Watts for 10 months.
https://nypost.com/2018/08/29/man-claims-he-had-affair-with-dad-accused-of-killing-wife-kids/?utm_campaign=partnerfeed&utm_medium=syndicated&utm_source=flipboard
Guy says he had an affair with Chris Watts for 10 months.
https://nypost.com/2018/08/29/man-claims-he-had-affair-with-dad-accused-of-killing-wife-kids/?utm_campaign=partnerfeed&utm_medium=syndicated&utm_source=flipboard
Well, I did not see that coming.
I’m looking at the special people hierarchy and this could be a problem for the #ToxicMasculinity narrative.
Death penalty is off the table now.
Zundfolge
08-30-2018, 09:32
Guy says he had an affair with Chris Watts for 10 months.
https://nypost.com/2018/08/29/man-claims-he-had-affair-with-dad-accused-of-killing-wife-kids/?utm_campaign=partnerfeed&utm_medium=syndicated&utm_source=flipboard
Well that's it, this'll go down the memory hole. Can't say anything critical of our gay overlords.
Jeffrey Lebowski
09-01-2018, 09:55
Crazy!!! If true...
Guess he will really like prison then....
Zundfolge
09-01-2018, 11:18
Guess he will really like prison then....
Not if he prefers to be the "top".
Chris Watts reaches plea deal to avoid death penalty in deaths of pregnant wife, 2 daughters
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/chris-watts-case/chris-watts-reaches-plea-deal-to-avoid-death-penalty-in-deaths-of-pregnant-wife-2-daughters
Weld County District Attorney Michael Rourke said at a news conference that followed the plea hearing that he went to North Carolina to speak with the Rzucek family -- Shanann's family -- in order to talk about the possibilities of prosecution in the case. That came after Watts' attorneys approached Rourke and prosecutors about a deal, Rourke said.
Rourke said he explained the "extraordinary delays" that are seen in current death penalty cases, including the Nathan Dunlap case, and that the Rzuceks wanted a quicker resolution in the case.
"That, to me, was the most important consideration in deciding how to proceed with this case," Rourke said.
Rourke blamed Gov. John Hickenlooper for his stance on the death penalty, which Hickenlooper has refused to carry out while he is in office, as part of the reason for going to North Carolina to discuss the plea options with Shanann's family.
The Rzuceks also appeared at the news conference with Rourke and other law enforcement agencies but did not speak. Rourke said he was "saddened" he had to meet the Rzucek family under the circumstances of their daughter's and granddaughters' deaths and said he would give the family time to decide how they wanted to proceed with Watts' sentencing.
[snip]
Watts originally faced the death penalty or life in prison without the possibility of parole. The death penalty was taken off the table as part of the deal. The Weld County District Attorney's Office said the deal was made with the agreement of Shanann's family.
Elections have consequences.
And this is also conveniently keeps the alleged gay tryst out of the limelight.
When/if they release the autopsy results, people are going to be pissed.
Guilty plea and life is cheaper for the tax payers than a trial and life on death row with endless appeals. Maybe "street" justice will get him and make his life sentence very short.
Guilty plea and life is cheaper for the tax payers than a trial and life on death row with endless appeals. Maybe "street" justice will get him and make his life sentence very short.
Guilty and death would be better if justice was served swiftly. Justice is slow because the goddamn lawyers on both sides have to milk the taxpayer for 20 or 30 years first.
Personally I think rotting in a cell for the rest of your life is far worse than the death penalty.
ChickNorris
11-06-2018, 19:34
Cowards hurt little girls. That right there is enough evil to be done with him.
Death row is a long vacation. This is better.
Yay for Deliberate, Prolonged, Torment.
As a taxpayer, I would like to see him offed in the next year. No need to keep monkeys in the zoo.
Jeffrey Lebowski
11-06-2018, 19:46
Personally I think rotting in a cell for the rest of your life is far worse than the death penalty.
x2.
Plus, economics.
Bailey Guns
11-06-2018, 19:55
Guilty plea and life is cheaper for the tax payers than a trial and life on death row with endless appeals. Maybe "street" justice will get him and make his life sentence very short.
Yeah...I don't care what it costs. The federal and state governments spend insane amounts of money on shit that does little good for most of society. So spend it on something that will do some good and fry the fucker. The cost is a non-factor in the grand scheme of things.
Yeah...I don't care what it costs. The federal and state governments spend insane amounts of money on shit that does little good for most of society. So spend it on something that will do some good and fry the fucker. The cost is a non-factor in the grand scheme of things.
+1 For the greater good.
ChickNorris
11-06-2018, 20:38
Ive got a buck for someone for each day they make sure that coward has an extra extra extra bad day in prison.
SideShow Bob
11-06-2018, 20:47
Ive got a buck for someone for each day they make sure that coward has an extra extra extra bad day in prison.
You ought to join the inmate pen pal program.
He?s a pretty white boy and will get protective & suiside watch for awhile before he is downgraded to gen pop. Then the real fun begins.
Great-Kazoo
11-06-2018, 21:29
Ive got a buck for someone for each day they make sure that coward has an extra extra extra bad day in prison.
You ought to join the inmate pen pal program.
He?s a pretty white boy and will get protective & suiside watch for awhile before he is downgraded to gen pop. Then the real fun begins.
Tell who ever you connect with, all donations go towards their commissary fund.
So... Not gay?
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/chris-watts-case/its-horrific-christopher-watts-mistress-speaks-as-sentencing-in-frederick-murders-draws-near
When Nichol Kessinger started dating Christopher Watts in July, he appeared to be a soft-spoken man and a thoughtful father who was at the end of divorce proceedings.
https://mediaassets.thedenverchannel.com/photo/2018/11/15/Nichol%20Kessinger_1542334723033.jpg_103394772_ver 1.0_640_480.jpg
?I don?t think there is a logical explanation for what he did,? she said. ?It?s a senseless act, and it?s horrific.?
[fail]
We can't blame the mistress for facts she didn't know, but there is certainly a logical explanation.
What isn't logical is the lack of meaningful consequences.
Why is the media still obsessed with this case?
It's over, case closed, criminal in jail for life.
But why must they obsess on where he's locked up? Or his safety in jail?
It would be best if he was offed in jail. No longer a burden to the tax payers 6 ft under.
https://mediaassets.thedenverchannel.com/photo/2018/11/15/Nichol%20Kessinger_1542334723033.jpg_103394772_ver 1.0_640_480.jpg
She looks a little bit like Meg Myers in that photo.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.