SBR registered receiver in non-SBR format.

[mattiooo]

I'm trying to evaluate my needs.

If I want to take my SBR to shoot in another state, I know I have to fill out a 5320.20.

Does this apply to an AR receiver registered as an SBR with a full rifle upper on it? Or in that configuration is it just a standard rifle?

[SouthPaw]

I would treat it as an SBR no matter what the configuration it is because it is a registered SBR; but that's just me.

[Hoser]

You cant unring the SBR bell.

Well, actually you can. But adding a non-NFA upper does not make it a non-NFA item.

[Eric P]

But to an everyday LE officer, they would like see a normal length rifle and not ask to see papers/stamp.

But what is the requirement for transport in a single day? Say you were near the border, and crossed to have lunch, get gas, ect. and return the same day. Maybe unplanned.

[mattiooo]

But to an everyday LE officer, they would like see a normal length rifle and not ask to see papers/stamp.

But what is the requirement for transport in a single day? Say you were near the border, and crossed to have lunch, get gas, ect. and return the same day. Maybe unplanned.

One thing I will not do is break the law no matter how unlikely it is to get caught with it. I will not cross state lines with an SBR without first filing the appropriate paperwork. I paid to play and them's the rules.

I mainly asked because when I registered the SBR, it was the entire rifle - I had to enter the overall length of the rifle as well as the barrel. I wasn't just registering a lower.

[SAnd]

The answer to your question is only available to Authorized persons. A couple years ago I saved this address and faq question and answer-
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-short-barrel-sbr-or-sbs-be-replaced-long-barrel-hunting-or-other-purposes-intent
May the short barrel on an SBR or SBS be replaced with a long barrel for hunting or other purposes, with the intent of replacing the short barrel?
Yes, and you will not be required to again register the firearm before replacing the short barrel. ATF recommends written notification to the NFA Branch when a firearm’s configuration is permanently changed or removed from the purview of the NFA.

I just tried the link and got this-
"Access denied
You are not authorized to access this page."

So I don't know.

It makes me think that there is a Deep State infiltrator screwing with people.

[SAnd]

Don't forget other state local laws.

[mattiooo]

The answer to your question is only available to Authorized persons. A couple years ago I saved this address and faq question and answer-
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-short-barrel-sbr-or-sbs-be-replaced-long-barrel-hunting-or-other-purposes-intent
May the short barrel on an SBR or SBS be replaced with a long barrel for hunting or other purposes, with the intent of replacing the short barrel?
Yes, and you will not be required to again register the firearm before replacing the short barrel. ATF recommends written notification to the NFA Branch when a firearm’s configuration is permanently changed or removed from the purview of the NFA.

I just tried the link and got this-
"Access denied
You are not authorized to access this page."

So I don't know.

It makes me think that there is a Deep State infiltrator screwing with people.

That would be awesome if it is still true. Will call the ATF tomorrow.

[Great-Kazoo]

- I had to enter the overall length of the rifle as well as the barrel. I wasn't just registering a lower.

No. You were registering the Lower with a specific barrel length. The upper is not a firearm, no matter the designation of the receiver (serialized part). If for some reason there's an issue, you must show the SBR is able to return to the original configuration / bbl length .

[mattiooo]

As usual, I didn’t express myself fully. I am thinking a temporary change for use in a shoot in another state. With the intent to return it to sbr form in the end.

Exactly as worded in what Sand posted that is now a broken link was my real original question.

[Circuits]

It is legally only an SBR when in a complete SBR configuration. You are free to transport and use and even sell it as a Title 1 non-SBR rifle when it's in a non SBR configuration.

Someone will come along with the citation eventually but ATF has responded in writing to this effect.

[kidicarus13]

...adding a non-NFA upper does not make it a non-NFA item.




It is legally only an SBR when in a complete SBR configuration. You are free to transport and use and even sell it as a Title 1 non-SBR rifle when it's in a non SBR configuration.


I feel like these are saying the opposite thing.

[SAnd]

This is why there is a NFA registry-
§5841. Registration of firearms
(a) Central registry
The Secretary shall maintain a central registry of all firearms in the United States which are not in the possession or under the control of the United States. This registry shall be known as the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record.
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/granule/USCODE-2011-title26/USCODE-2011-title26-subtitleE-chap53-subchapB-partI-sec5845/content-detail.html
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title26/html/USCODE-2011-title26-subtitleE-chap53-subchapB-partI-sec5841.htm

This defines what a NFA firearm is-
§5845. Definitions
For the purpose of this chapter—
(a) Firearm
The term “firearm” means (1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title26/html/USCODE-2011-title26-subtitleE-chap53-subchapB-partI-sec5845.htm

This has generally been interpreted to mean by definition it is only a NFA rifle if it has a barrel less than 16 inches or overall length less than 26 inches. It doesn't meet the definition of a NFA rifle if the barrel is longer than 16 inches. By definition you register a rifle, not a receiver.

My previous post quotes from a FAQ from two years ago that seems to back this up. I'm not Authorized so I can't tell if they have changed their minds on the way it is done now.

[Hoser]

I feel like these are saying the opposite thing.

Exactly. I have never been able to find it in writing anywhere so I error on the side of caution.

With my luck I would have a 20 inch barrel on it and it would get stolen in NM or WY. Now I have to explain why an NFA receiver was out of state without a 5320.

One of the joys of the NFA game. Lots of grey areas open to interpatation and not enough black and white.

[Not_A_Llama]

It is legally only an SBR when in a complete SBR configuration. You are free to transport and use and even sell it as a Title 1 non-SBR rifle when it's in a non SBR configuration.

Someone will come along with the citation eventually but ATF has responded in writing to this effect.
I have also seen this posted with ATF documentation, and have seen (someone else’s) NFA-specific counsel advise the same.

[Great-Kazoo]

Exactly. I have never been able to find it in writing anywhere so I error on the side of caution.

With my luck I would have a 20 inch barrel on it and it would get stolen in NM or WY. Now I have to explain why an NFA receiver was out of state without a 5320.

One of the joys of the NFA game. Lots of grey areas open to interpatation and not enough black and white.

Wait till one does an out of state change of address, where the physical addy is different from the mailing addy.

[SouthPaw]

Why even risk it? Better safe than sorry.

[mattiooo]

Why even risk it? Better safe than sorry.

I've found now that it was definitely in writing on their website at one point. There are numerous sites pointing to it or showing it. It's only a risk if they've changed their stance. That's up to me to find out now.
Did they take it down because the rules have changed? Because of a directive not to openly say it? Or was it a website management issue?

[Circuits]

I can't believe no one posted the link, which I couldn't, since I was on a phone at the time of my original reply...

See: ATF reply to Wade Bailey letter: final paragraph, second page

https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/files/2015/02/Transport-a-Title-II-as-a-Title-1-across-state-lines.pdf

[mattiooo]

I can't believe no one posted the link, which I couldn't, since I was on a phone at the time of my original reply...

See: ATF reply to Wade Bailey letter: final paragraph, second page

https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/files/2015/02/Transport-a-Title-II-as-a-Title-1-across-state-lines.pdf

Finally. Thank you.

[Hoser]

Good stuff. Thanks for posting it.

[izzy]

After reading that it all seems pretty cut and dry.