View Full Version : And CDOT screws the state again...
Grant H.
08-29-2018, 12:00
https://www.codot.gov/projects/north-i-25/johnstown-to-fort-collins/johnstown-fort-collins
Express lanes??? Again???
That's the definition of insanity.
It didn't fix 25 through Denver. It didn't fix 36. It's not a solution.
It's a pathetic cop out on the part of CDOT that doesn't fix a darn thing.
(Not aimed at any of the CDOT employee's on the board)
It’s a money maker... so they like it. It’s not really about solving congestion...
Didn't fix eastbound I-70 from Empire through Idaho Springs either.
CDOT doesn't plan ahead except for new scams to steal taxpayer money.
BushMasterBoy
08-29-2018, 12:45
Why don't they just call it an toll road? Toll lanes? Or "You Pay My Way Highway"? Bastids sent me a bill in the mail 24 hours before it would incur charges for paying late. Luckily I remembered I went through there without ever paying and called on the phone. I paid by credit card. I got the bill the next day. It is a scam and the bastids that came up with it should be hanging by the neck from their own creation. I hope somebody sabotages it with a drone blocking the camera.
State growth on the roads are insane, now removing frontage in places with their exhorbitant priced tolls. I bet theyd demo highway down from loveland if they could just to force you onto that pathetic excuse for a major highway north i25 is.
Any "retired" CDOT bigwigs find new jobs at the toll companies yet?
I call them suicide lane because if you travel the speed limit in those lanes during heavy traffic others will jump in front of you with no warning because there is no separation between the lanes other then some lines.
I spoke with CDOT about the Dougles County toll lane and asked what percentage of feedback was in support on the toll lanes. They explained that since only people apposed speak up they don’t really worry about that metric because they deem it false.
/snip
I spoke with CDOT about the Dougles County toll lane and asked what percentage of feedback was in support on the toll lanes. They explained that since only people apposed speak up they don’t really worry about that metric because they deem it false.
What a bunch of snowflake weasels, they can't accept that perhaps NOBODY likes these toll lanes.
The toll lane is a double tax, we paid taxes to have that toll lane built, then we pay a fee to use a lane we already paid for.
Any "retired" CDOT bigwigs find new jobs at the toll companies yet?
Yeah, like these worthless 'crats need more money after ripping us off for decades. They probably got kickbacks while they were "serving the public good" too.
beast556
08-29-2018, 14:17
Just what we don't need!!! Express lane is not going to do shit for the traffic up this way.
It’s a money maker... so they like it. It’s not really about solving congestion...
Pretty much sums it up.
I only browsed through, will the selectable HOV pass work through there?
BPTactical
08-29-2018, 15:10
Any "retired" CDOT bigwigs find new jobs at the toll companies yet?
I know of 3 with the Northwest Parkway.
And 1 with the Feds.
Oh and 2 making cushy salaries with the company that supplies Magnesium Chloride and solid de-icer to CDOT.
This is the kind of shit with CDOT that made me retire 2 years early, I could no longer stand the management, the spineless way of conducting themselves and the hypocrisy.
$300 million in construction cost but ya cant fix the potholes, fences, pick up the trash or mow the right of way....
Fucking pussies.
Martinjmpr
08-29-2018, 15:22
So people bitch about traffic and insufficient roads.
Then the government says "sure we can fix the roads, we'll just need to raise your taxes to pay for it" and people bitch about having their taxes raised.
So the government then finds a private entity willing to build the roads without raising taxes by charging users, and people bitch about that.
I think I'm detecting a common denominator here....[Bang]
So what's your choice: (1) crappy, crowded roads (i.e. the status quo), (2) higher taxes than we already pay or (3) toll roads?
Pick one. [Dunno]
Wolfshoon
08-29-2018, 16:05
So what's your choice: (1) crappy, crowded roads (i.e. the status quo), (2) higher taxes than we already pay or (3) toll roads?
Pick one. [Dunno]
No the irritation comes from the fact that we have all ready approved road improvement taxes in addition to the original taxes and the state is receiving record tax income (housing prices dictate tax rate on residential, it's done nothing but go up the last 8 years, I'm double from 2011 and that's separate from business taxes) and yet, somehow, the state needs even more $$$. Accountability needs to come first on ALL TAXES.
Don't get me started on private toll roads, E470 was supposed to public roadway with no fees back in 2015 or 2016 IIRC, that is the way the tax increase for it was sold to us back in the 1990's. Somehow, it got sold to private entities, (Dubai own part of it now, how is that possible?) and you still pay even though they received public tax money to build and run it. Same thing is happening with I36 tollway (express lane) going private and now this fiasco. Follow the money and who is getting it.
I remember a news broadcast a few years ago about some special needs program crying on Denver TV about how they were going to have to shut down because their money source was going away, turns out they were getting "road maintenance" tax money instead of it being spent on roads like the voters approved and somebody managed to do some oversight on it. This type of corruption is why the American tax payer is jaded.
Not to mention, part the deal hawking 36 off to another country is that NO roads can be build for a long time (50 years or so, if I remember correctly) that alleviate traffic from 36. The argument that it fixes crowded roads is moot.
Isn't that the same way they pay for stadiums?
Martinjmpr
08-29-2018, 16:40
Isn't that the same way they pay for stadiums?
[ROFL1] I think you just hit on a brilliant scheme to pay for our roads: Sell the naming rights.
Instead of driving down C-470 you could be driving down the "Conoco Expressway." Instead of driving down I-70 you could be driving down the "Coors Light Freeway." I-25, in turn, could become the "Budweiser Freeway."
And if it would work with freeways, why not surface streets too?
"Here's how you get to my house: Take the Discount Tire freeway to exit 45. From there take Stay Free Maxi Pad Avenue West to 7-11 Big Gulp street. Turn right and go 3 blocks to Anthem Health Care Circle. My house number is 4724."
Might as well. Advertising already infiltrates every single part of our lives.
[ROFL1] I think you just hit on a brilliant scheme to pay for our roads: Sell the naming rights.
Instead of driving down C-470 you could be driving down the "Conoco Expressway." Instead of driving down I-70 you could be driving down the "Coors Light Freeway." I-25, in turn, could become the "Budweiser Freeway."
And if it would work with freeways, why not surface streets too?
"Here's how you get to my house: Take the Discount Tire freeway to exit 45. From there take Stay Free Maxi Pad Avenue West to 7-11 Big Gulp street. Turn right and go 3 blocks to Anthem Health Care Circle. My house number is 4724."
So, no DUI enforcement on those roads? :)
I doubt any of those lanes are "money makers". For the millions spent to build them, it would take them being full for quite a while to break even. They don't get used that much because people will find another way.
I could take C-470 and it might take me 15 minutes....or an hour to get to work. I just take surface streets and get to work pretty reliably in about 20 minutes.
Especially when people find ways to use the lanes and not pay for them.
Great-Kazoo
08-29-2018, 17:13
So people bitch about traffic and insufficient roads.
Then the government says "sure we can fix the roads, we'll just need to raise your taxes to pay for it" and people bitch about having their taxes raised.
So the government then finds a private entity willing to build the roads without raising taxes by charging users, and people bitch about that.
I think I'm detecting a common denominator here....[Bang]
So what's your choice: (1) crappy, crowded roads (i.e. the status quo), (2) higher taxes than we already pay or (3) toll roads?
Pick one. [Dunno]
When the HOV lanes were 2+ everyone used them. When they went to 3+ those same carpool, taxis, limos ubers etc were forced back on to the standard highway. Being hit with a fine for using the road they used the year prior makes no sense. That's why CDOT, among other CO entities needs to be audited
GeorgeandSugar
08-29-2018, 17:24
I know. A hard pill to swallow, however, toll roads are preferable to anymore crap like HOV lanes or bike lanes or any of these other gimmicks that do little to solve the traffic dilemma. Fortunately, I don't have to deal with the daily traffic meat grinder.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
hurley842002
08-29-2018, 17:41
I know. A hard pill to swallow, however, toll roads are preferable to anymore crap like HOV lanes or bike lanes or any of these other gimmicks that do little to solve the traffic dilemma. Fortunately, I don't have to deal with the daily traffic meat grinder.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkPreferable to who? You? Bold statement coming from someone that doesn't have to deal with the daily "meat grinder".
GeorgeandSugar
08-29-2018, 17:48
Preferable to who? You? Bold statement coming from someone that doesn't have to deal with the daily "meat grinder".
I did not long ago. I was cheap and did not want to pay tolls and took the long way home. Shelved the cheap for my sanity. CDOT was not going to get this done, so I bite the bullet and paid the tolls. Ouch! However, my sanity, less traffic and more time at home was a good trade-off.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
An almost daily commute is new again to me after 15 years.
I'm just sick of the massive influx of left lane losers (that means most Californians).
Thankfully I'm going against the bulk of traffic, but it's still painful to travel e-470/C-470 4 days a week.
Some douche knot in a jeep had e-470 jammed up for miles on the way home today.
Parker Rd through town up to 470 is getting much worse lately too it seems.
First post nailed it!
And haven't we done this post before?
Yes, we're paying to drive in the roads we pay to build and maintain. The Ritter taxes weren't enough. It's never enough and CO voters don't seem to mind. They are shitting money given the cost of living as it is.
E-470 cancelled their registration fee early btw. They re-fi'd the bonds and paid them off early. Never seen that before on our roads (removing a tax/fee). So much for "we need Socialism because muh roads."
Oh, and the other good part... If you observe the flow of traffic, the passing lane (left lane, non-toll) is no longer treated as a passing lane when there is an express lane. People now camp there because they see a lane to their left.
I cannot for the life of me understand why people get into the toll lane and match the speed of the left lane. WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD YOU PAY TO GO THE SAME SPEED?!?!
SideShow Bob
08-29-2018, 19:15
I cannot for the life of me understand why people get into the toll lane and match the speed of the left lane. WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD YOU PAY TO GO THE SAME SPEED?!?!
[pick-me] I don’t know, maybe Because it is the posted legal speed limit ?
I really wish the toll lanes if they are insistent on doing that would at least have a barrier. Because people love darting in and out to avoid the cameras. Or getting impatient and crossing the double white nearly causing accidents....
I'd be less opposed if the prices were a little more reasonable, $4-5 a day would suck but be somewhat digestible but the cost for the i25 into denver is ridiculous. (And E-470 always confused me, because often looping around the entire denver metro is a fortune and only saves time if stuff is located perfectly otherwise the crawl is still your only bet.
Once this kicks off I wonder if Ft collins from longmont will be faster at all going up 257 like I already do for Greeley.
[pick-me] I don’t know, maybe Because it is the posted legal speed limit ?
That's not relevant to any situation I've observed.
In times when traffic is flowing as it should and cars are able to travel at the posted limit (or over), why be in the pay lane at all?
Often times I see traffic backed up, and vehicles in the pay lane are pacing cars in the left lane, going below the speed limit. They aren't waiting to merge with their signal on. I understand being safe, but if you're just pacing for safety, why not move over and do it for free?
SideShow Bob
08-29-2018, 19:45
OK, now I see what you mean. Possibly, as mentioned in another post, these are the line jumpers looking for a gap to jump back in the non-toll lane.before the cameras.
Sounds plausible, but as someone who is usually driving all the way through, my building rage, mile after congested, anecdotal mile, tells me otherwise.
BPTactical
08-29-2018, 20:40
[pick-me] I don’t know, maybe Because it is the posted legal speed limit ?
Fer Chrissake Bobbo, don't throw silly things like laws, regulations and common sense into the mix.
That's not relevant to any situation I've observed.
In times when traffic is flowing as it should and cars are able to travel at the posted limit (or over), why be in the pay lane at all?
Often times I see traffic backed up, and vehicles in the pay lane are pacing cars in the left lane, going below the speed limit. They aren't waiting to merge with their signal on. I understand being safe, but if you're just pacing for safety, why not move over and do it for free?
What would traffic be like if all those cars in the extra lane were in yours?
Think about it...
I really wish the toll lanes if they are insistent on doing that would at least have a barrier. Because people love darting in and out to avoid the cameras. Or getting impatient and crossing the double white nearly causing accidents....
I'd be less opposed if the prices were a little more reasonable, $4-5 a day would suck but be somewhat digestible but the cost for the i25 into denver is ridiculous. (And E-470 always confused me, because often looping around the entire denver metro is a fortune and only saves time if stuff is located perfectly otherwise the crawl is still your only bet.
Once this kicks off I wonder if Ft collins from longmont will be faster at all going up 257 like I already do for Greeley.
Barrier = no breakdown lane or extra width needed for such.
I must not be painting a good picture here. It isn't ever "all those cars." That would make sense because it would mean that there was so much traffic that all lanes are full with no where to go. No reason to be frustrated with the guy in front of you in that situation because he can't go anywhere. I'm talking about being able to see beyond the person that is pacing traffic. Sometimes I'm not even in the pay lane. I'm the guy in the left lane, and someone is driving the same speed as me in the pay lane. What are these people paying to use the open lane for, then pacing the traffic they are trying to avoid? I can't imagine they are just some sort of traffic angels that are taking a financial bullet for everyone else on the road.
I must not be painting a good picture here. It isn't ever "all those cars." That would make sense because it would mean that there was so much traffic that all lanes are full with no where to go. No reason to be frustrated with the guy in front of you in that situation because he can't go anywhere. I'm talking about being able to see beyond the person that is pacing traffic. Sometimes I'm not even in the pay lane. I'm the guy in the left lane, and someone is driving the same speed as me in the pay lane. What are these people paying to use the open lane for, then pacing the traffic they are trying to avoid? I can't imagine they are just some sort of traffic angels that are taking a financial bullet for everyone else on the road.
Sounds like self appointed speed police. I see them everywhere. Especially on c-470 every morning.
What are these people paying to use the open lane for, then pacing the traffic they are trying to avoid?
They don't have to look away from their phone if they just pace the guy next to them.
They don't have to look away from their phone if they just pace the guy next to them.
The is a lot of truth to that statement.
Maybe they should just build more light rail.
Maybe they should just build more light rail.
:) Yeah, because it is soooooooo popular on the weekends and during off-peak hours. :)
In the spirit of my unique ability to continuously drive a thread off topic in a direction only I care about, I've taken these photos today.
I36 Eastboud, approximately 1:50 pm. Traffic flow in the left lane bounced from 67-70 mph. Posted speed limit 65 mph.
Here we can see a lady traveling in the express toll lane. I saw her ahead of me miles before, and watched more than one vehicle get out of the Express lane to go around her. Traffic is not heavy, and her presence in the normal lanes would not have made a difference to the rest of traffic.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/fLIzD64VZbJ0rgtIkD9Jj3GMJpJetgyGk1BfTF6hPxGaOtRRUo Fl9Txg3uNSxEgwHSlEmHGlI04tsCYMQJSV-Wz9lhDDMmZexR0PLw-I-EHajAzhnl8ke7vhL8gNWm_5CnXTAX7KYBdzTBa62gptlmgmJqb i7JFI1LeX0pMOvaHcTtIhso2H89g9ZaoM3ilk3Z1ZUirglqSTl GttpUQY50vlBEey6rS3iWUaiNSe7uKa08WIoe8yIcXrztNZJPM qpKJKdb_YF2Fu83M0y52VrHRBYxOt_jq-nUqTT9JmbKpbXAHXM4J1lG5MruTO7tnp81AMftT3_cCzwraPjZ Q5FQzf_3ehSu-_V6eOZy9ZyL8hWMDdcSTGTjEtOe-PJuB-Yn9EZ9cAymmKuamlJZwS42X54kkdsWg4ilMWadDl4oT5awia_9 isomnaGKIT3YF7nuxLm__yEgOEUkOM3xCXuvLPtyzCpSu_8KoA CgVBaczIaw06PPsYuKV6sM-_A9ftfuiZgI47SqRDO87uZvkbyYwh3i6zdyzHQNYGrdU8j0yEA SiQ2K-nihjJQ4omG2arAW1peKnl20lSQKpLd6bNdchn-7eU3mcpMaERZ24kkpYGK8eO8Lwu18sD7WIfUm3GiKdG2qMkP2l-x17NFzJJix39GvCyEGvltwJEkxv6nh2pIRON-cgDM0y2jg=w1619-h910-no
About two miles later, after at least one other vehicle dropped out of the lane to go around her, she is barely behind me but collecting other traffic behind her. There was a third car behind her, but it had already changed lanes before I snapped the picture.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/NtAryO1ODDPjavpMvZrY4R9FRjS9QQx_h6dYeJ9rASyuYZ08fg csun4x1QsaHInJq7RAzctjJBFB7_dEGuqhRDpK2QYSWVxf2Jmd R_iLCqSmiNvAwXv0nFuqVFwAwSGvImY5cZxKAi8IHOHySiemXw GQZgagfaOAvNa2R0gYksBW4YxPhc7sKLTGZlReyQRjyr__LHQP VDD5e9R243FcjQjjOuukXpBEpfu76USboiJTgXrZLmrlYs0r07 FoRtNr127JF__u7YehXLpBJCbTrxmLC3qZHCfdgVr-sB9-jOnbGsRk63eOfYpeNq_V-fgSXT0yZaMCnd_MVvUXrhNff9j6zQV-IrjbqfOGBRdQeFkWHRc7sVBCHjRM0TMtIzUEojSK-jaXoRS6IhjbJh1S_ZCPeSn8El20qGMEPBcwKhSXhkMalFPp8i8 YbUA2w-piPBgoBhgKHHPlToOgjLN2tqm4pLomPs0pd5c8vnwDa2rw_MkC _0tS6UE1d-cJmYq8FPqoTwdeAWLfX-lXj62l1z5QrxXj_ZL3sKb34SU7FAtJ8fw_4_p_qavESVg--3u8oMq7XFRwPlkX9K1hnmlSULI5dsG1RGWUKmUkpXOFx2Bp0UO e7f3Z4o2Xt1DJCQDdIvFQUxXmw8QenOgQe4pToKrTFUoaZoRw8 KPA6l-wtU2mNYf3pTDDWngLeA=w1619-h910-no
But what is your point Irving?
Only that people are dumb and pay money to drive in Express lanes with zero benefit to themselves, and to the direct detriment to others that are also paying to use that lane. Maybe that's why we keep getting hosed with new taxes and bloated government spending all the time, because we're just a bunch of rubes who bleed money without even noticing.
In the spirit of my unique ability to continuously drive a thread off topic in a direction only I care about, I've taken these photos today.
I36 Eastboud, approximately 1:50 pm. Traffic flow in the left lane bounced from 67-70 mph. Posted speed limit 65 mph.
Here we can see a lady traveling in the express toll lane. I saw her ahead of me miles before, and watched more than one vehicle get out of the Express lane to go around her. Traffic is not heavy, and her presence in the normal lanes would not have made a difference to the rest of traffic.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/fLIzD64VZbJ0rgtIkD9Jj3GMJpJetgyGk1BfTF6hPxGaOtRRUo Fl9Txg3uNSxEgwHSlEmHGlI04tsCYMQJSV-Wz9lhDDMmZexR0PLw-I-EHajAzhnl8ke7vhL8gNWm_5CnXTAX7KYBdzTBa62gptlmgmJqb i7JFI1LeX0pMOvaHcTtIhso2H89g9ZaoM3ilk3Z1ZUirglqSTl GttpUQY50vlBEey6rS3iWUaiNSe7uKa08WIoe8yIcXrztNZJPM qpKJKdb_YF2Fu83M0y52VrHRBYxOt_jq-nUqTT9JmbKpbXAHXM4J1lG5MruTO7tnp81AMftT3_cCzwraPjZ Q5FQzf_3ehSu-_V6eOZy9ZyL8hWMDdcSTGTjEtOe-PJuB-Yn9EZ9cAymmKuamlJZwS42X54kkdsWg4ilMWadDl4oT5awia_9 isomnaGKIT3YF7nuxLm__yEgOEUkOM3xCXuvLPtyzCpSu_8KoA CgVBaczIaw06PPsYuKV6sM-_A9ftfuiZgI47SqRDO87uZvkbyYwh3i6zdyzHQNYGrdU8j0yEA SiQ2K-nihjJQ4omG2arAW1peKnl20lSQKpLd6bNdchn-7eU3mcpMaERZ24kkpYGK8eO8Lwu18sD7WIfUm3GiKdG2qMkP2l-x17NFzJJix39GvCyEGvltwJEkxv6nh2pIRON-cgDM0y2jg=w1619-h910-no
About two miles later, after at least one other vehicle dropped out of the lane to go around her, she is barely behind me but collecting other traffic behind her. There was a third car behind her, but it had already changed lanes before I snapped the picture.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/NtAryO1ODDPjavpMvZrY4R9FRjS9QQx_h6dYeJ9rASyuYZ08fg csun4x1QsaHInJq7RAzctjJBFB7_dEGuqhRDpK2QYSWVxf2Jmd R_iLCqSmiNvAwXv0nFuqVFwAwSGvImY5cZxKAi8IHOHySiemXw GQZgagfaOAvNa2R0gYksBW4YxPhc7sKLTGZlReyQRjyr__LHQP VDD5e9R243FcjQjjOuukXpBEpfu76USboiJTgXrZLmrlYs0r07 FoRtNr127JF__u7YehXLpBJCbTrxmLC3qZHCfdgVr-sB9-jOnbGsRk63eOfYpeNq_V-fgSXT0yZaMCnd_MVvUXrhNff9j6zQV-IrjbqfOGBRdQeFkWHRc7sVBCHjRM0TMtIzUEojSK-jaXoRS6IhjbJh1S_ZCPeSn8El20qGMEPBcwKhSXhkMalFPp8i8 YbUA2w-piPBgoBhgKHHPlToOgjLN2tqm4pLomPs0pd5c8vnwDa2rw_MkC _0tS6UE1d-cJmYq8FPqoTwdeAWLfX-lXj62l1z5QrxXj_ZL3sKb34SU7FAtJ8fw_4_p_qavESVg--3u8oMq7XFRwPlkX9K1hnmlSULI5dsG1RGWUKmUkpXOFx2Bp0UO e7f3Z4o2Xt1DJCQDdIvFQUxXmw8QenOgQe4pToKrTFUoaZoRw8 KPA6l-wtU2mNYf3pTDDWngLeA=w1619-h910-no
But what is your point Irving?
Only that people are dumb and pay money to drive in Express lanes with zero benefit to themselves, and to the direct detriment to others that are also paying to use that lane. Maybe that's why we keep getting hosed with new taxes and bloated government spending all the time, because we're just a bunch of rubes who bleed money without even noticing.
Maybe there's a secret CDOT program to get paid to impede traffic?
Left lane laws ought to apply to the express lane as well... If you're impeding traffic and can safely change lanes, GTFO.
SideShow Bob
08-30-2018, 15:21
She paid for the privilege to drive like a moron. So let her drive like an entitled moron.....
She paid for the privilege to drive like a moron. So let her drive like an entitled moron.....
We all have things that we waste money on, maybe she spends less on Express lane tolls than I do on beer, unjustifiably expensive coolers, and stuffing animals to look at when I already had a picture if I ever wanted to look at them again.
Martinjmpr
08-30-2018, 16:21
In the spirit of my unique ability to continuously drive a thread off topic in a direction only I care about, I've taken these photos today.
But what is your point Irving?
Only that people are dumb and pay money to drive in Express lanes with zero benefit to themselves, and to the direct detriment to others that are also paying to use that lane. Maybe that's why we keep getting hosed with new taxes and bloated government spending all the time, because we're just a bunch of rubes who bleed money without even noticing.
You're making an assumption there, I think.
Those people may be driving company vehicles and the company may be picking up the tab for the toll road bill.
It gets added to an expense report and is paid for out of company funds or, if the worker is an employee or contractor for the government, it's paid for by the taxpayers.
IOW, for the driver himself/herself, it costs them nothing. ;)
So the question then is, why NOT use the toll lane?
The times I've had to drive through Seattle-Tacoma, the HOV lanes seem to work much better than what I've seen here. The speed limit doesn't seem to be a concern (limits are often exceeded), yet nobody seems to care since the traffic is MOVING.
I can use some of the toll lanes for free, but I still don't when I don't need to.
They're doing "the gap" too.
https://www.codot.gov/projects/i25-south-gap
BPTactical
08-30-2018, 19:21
They're doing "the gap" too.
https://www.codot.gov/projects/i25-south-gap
Aaand still can't pick up trash, mow or patch a pothole.....
Dlesh123
08-30-2018, 21:50
Never seen that before on our roads (removing a tax/fee).
When the Denver/Boulder turnpike was built, it was a toll road. Roughly around 1968, they dropped the toll because the road was paid for. How times change.
Never seen that before on our roads (removing a tax/fee).
When the Denver/Boulder turnpike was built, it was a toll road. Roughly around 1968, they dropped the toll because the road was paid for. How times change.
I've heard that was the ONLY toll road in the country where that happened.
So the question then is, why NOT use the toll lane?
Because needlessly impeding the flow of traffic is a dick move, and I was taught not to be a dick if I can avoid it. If people would drive in accordance with the rules I was brought up with, we would have better traffic flow, far fewer accidents crashes, and dramatically less road rage.
RblDiver
08-31-2018, 20:37
Once this kicks off I wonder if Ft collins from longmont will be faster at all going up 257 like I already do for Greeley.
I go to Fort Collins from Longmont twice a week, I always use 287. It takes me the same time (maybe a minute difference) and saves me 10 miles.
I go to Fort Collins from Longmont twice a week, I always use 287. It takes me the same time (maybe a minute difference) and saves me 10 miles.
Small differences I think means it wont work as well for me. Going from hwy 52 and i25 basically, to east side of fort collins right near i25 and prospect, so got to make it thru 2 towns and over. I'm just very happy new job is close to the highway rather than buried in town.
Vote no on new taxes, vote yes on the other one.
Caldera's measure forces the state to defund unnecessary programs and use the increased revenue to pay for the bonding.
Wolfshoon
09-02-2018, 13:42
Vote no on new taxes, vote yes on the other one.
Caldera's measure forces the state to defund unnecessary programs and use the increased revenue to pay for the bonding.
Yea there are at least 2 new road tax initiatives being pushed this election cycle, one has some accountability for the $ and the other is open ended where they spend the $ (their "discretion"). That's BS as the state is bringing in record tax revenue from increased real estate mill taxes, business taxes and let's not forget the pot industry either. I'm all for fixing roads, but that tactic has been shoved on me too many times before where you put the $ towards something else. I want accountability for current funds before you even ask me for more.
theGinsue
09-02-2018, 15:51
I'm all for fixing roads, but that tactic has been shoved on me too many times before where you put the $ towards something else. I want accountability for current funds before you even ask me for more.
And this is why I continue to vote NO on EVERY new tax increase request. Never seems to matter though... We've got too many ignorant and emotionally driven masses and too many tax,tax, and tax some more Dems who always override my vote. That doesn't stop me from trying though.
The caldera one, Fix our Damn Roads, is the one I would vote for. No new taxes, just forces the state spend recent revenue increases on roads, not pet projects.
Not ideal since money is going to bankers in the firm of bond payments snd less is being spent on the roads.
Any bets on how much the I-70 debacle is going to be over budget?
OtterbatHellcat
09-02-2018, 18:49
...or over time. T rex was a joke when it was started, and didn't come close to fixing any problems when it was finished.
CDOT....
"Day late, and a Dollar Short"....always.
mahabali
09-02-2018, 20:31
Surprised it wasnt a subaru outback blocking up the express lane.
I work downtown a day or two a week and use the express lanes. Not happy about them but they usually do save me time. Fucking annoying as shit though.
ChickNorris
09-02-2018, 21:42
a subaru outback ... Fuck ... annoying as shit
Exactly
Any bets on how much the I-70 debacle is going to be over budget?
Budget: 1.2B, My prediction 6B
Projected completion July 2022, my prediction is Sept 2028
theGinsue
09-02-2018, 22:53
Might as well just hire the guys that did the new VA hospital in Denver to do these road construction projects. After all, that went swimmingly; eh?
The .gov projects need to be written to meet specific standards, for specific costs (agreed up front in the bidding/contract award) withing a specific period of time. Any time or cost overruns are the problem of the contract awardee, NOT the .gov. Time overruns along will failure to meet established standards all need to incur a significant financial penalty.
If you keep giving a panhandler money, he'll keep coming back for more. If the .gov keeps allowing this sort of shit and screwing over of the citizens, these companies (and others to follow) will continue to keep pulling these shenanigans because it's a cash cow for them. This sort of behavior isn't just accepted anymore, it's encouraged. It needs to stop. Do you know why it will never stop? Because there are an awful lot of politicians/bureaucrats also getting rich from these deeds.
ETA: Some will say that this attitude will either bankrupt many of the companies providing these services or they'll just refuse to participate in the system. Good. If a company can't figure out how to effectively and efficiently provide the service they're in business to provide then they need to no longer be in business. There will always be someone willing to do the right thing the right way - they just need the criminals to get out of the way so they can get their chance.
Grant H.
09-03-2018, 07:40
Might as well just hire the guys that did the new VA hospital in Denver to do these road construction projects. After all, that went swimmingly; eh?
The .gov projects need to be written to meet specific standards, for specific costs (agreed up front in the bidding/contract award) withing a specific period of time. Any time or cost overruns are the problem of the contract awardee, NOT the .gov. Time overruns along will failure to meet established standards all need to incur a significant financial penalty.
If you keep giving a panhandler money, he'll keep coming back for more. If the .gov keeps allowing this sort of shit and screwing over of the citizens, these companies (and others to follow) will continue to keep pulling these shenanigans because it's a cash cow for them. This sort of behavior isn't just accepted anymore, it's encouraged. It needs to stop. Do you know why it will never stop? Because there are an awful lot of politicians/bureaucrats also getting rich from these deeds.
ETA: Some will say that this attitude will either bankrupt many of the companies providing these services or they'll just refuse to participate in the system. Good. If a company can't figure out how to effectively and efficiently provide the service they're in business to provide then they need to no longer be in business. There will always be someone willing to do the right thing the right way - they just need the criminals to get out of the way so they can get their chance.
Truth.
Absolute truth.
BushMasterBoy
09-03-2018, 09:08
In China, they just execute these guys for defrauding the government. In North Korea, they feed you to hungry dogs or shoot you with antiaircraft gun. In the USA, they just give them more money to get it done.
This is how the ruling political party gets financial donations, so they can play golf and travel to country clubs, in a jumbo jet. In the meantime, the FBI will blame the Russians. The Russians fooled us all with Facebook and hookers. As long as ICE will let me get my medications from Mexico, I won't worry about the VA.
The good news in Pueblo, is 50 public schools have had their drinking fountains turned off because of lead in the water. The sad part, is that all this shit is true.
In China, they just execute these guys for defrauding the government. In North Korea, they feed you to hungry dogs or shoot you with antiaircraft gun.
So I guess there are some positive things about communism.
DavieD55
09-04-2018, 17:57
California vehicle rules kick Coloradans out of the driver’s seatAuthor: Ray Scott - July 19, 2018 - Updated: July 18, 2018
At the heart of the debate over Gov. John Hickenlooper’s recent executive order to adopt California vehicle emissions standards is a simple question: Who should decide what vehicles Coloradans will use in the future for work, recreation or basic transportation? Will there be fines or fees smacked on vehicle owners who will not or cannot comply?
I think most Coloradans believe they should be making those calls, based on the unique driving conditions and consumer preferences in Colorado. But Hickenlooper’s mandate hands those powers to the California Air Resources Board, a panel of unelected regulators that couldn’t care less about Colorado. Their actions could severely restrict the vehicle choices available to Colorado motorists, raise the purchase price of new vehicles (trucks especially) and cost taxpayers millions of dollars in additional subsidies and infrastructure spending, as the state pushes to meet arbitrary benchmarks that are neither realistic nor right for this state.
No one loves the environment more than Coloradans. And we’ve made significant progress improving ours in recent times without the need for such radical moves. Almost any new vehicle you buy today will be 99% cleaner than similar vehicles were a decade or two ago, thanks to huge technological strides made by the industry, and we’ve made real gains in improving our air and water by doing things “the Colorado way,” not by engaging in the sort of copy-cat regulating proposed here.
The dozen or so states that have adopted the California emissions model are all clustered on the West Coast or the Northeast. All are in control of big government liberals who enjoy regulating for regulation’s sake. None is in America’s heartland. Not one! Shouldn’t that provide the first clue of how out of the mainstream this proposal is?
Look, past superficial similarities, Colorado and California have little in common – especially when it comes to consumer preferences. Seventy-two percent of Coloradans purchased pickup trucks and SUV vehicles in 2017, which make up three out of every four new vehicles sold in the state. Yet it’s this category of vehicle that these mandates will impact most, as government uses all the weapons in its regulatory arsenal to override consumer preferences and push the public into the smaller, lighter, less-versatile vehicles we don’t want.
Relatively few Coloradans buy electric or plug-in hybrid vehicles – they account for less than 2 percent of vehicles sold in Colorado. These buyers are likely to live in densely populated urban centers, where charging stations are readily available, and they tend to be more affluent than average Coloradans, which makes one wonder why taxpayers of lesser means are obligated to keep subsidizing or “incentivizing” the car preferences of a pampered minority.
We’ll never meet these arbitrary, pie-in-the-sky mandates without pouring untold millions into this wasteful kind of welfare for the wealthy. We’ll have to continue the $5,000 per vehicle tax credit the state currently offers. And massive new public “investments” in EV infrastructure inevitably will be required to address these performance deficiencies and meet Hickenlooper’s mandate.
“Range anxiety” evidently is a problem for these folks when they stray beyond urban areas — I know I wouldn’t want to rely on an electric vehicle during regular treks to the statehouse from Grand Junction – but that’s one of the limitations they accept when choosing such vehicles. Why are the 98% of us who choose highly reliable vehicles obligated to rescue the 2% of Coloradans who opt for performance-impaired alternatives? That raises fundamental questions of fairness to me.
By raising the price tag on new vehicles, Colorado consumers will be forced to hang on to older, higher-polluting cars and trucks longer. Ironically, this would be a step backwards for Colorado’s air quality, which is disproportionately impacted by older, high-emitting vehicles. That’s just one way the “law of unintended consequences” will come back to haunt us if these ill-conceived mandates are finalized.
It’s telling that the term-limited Hickenlooper made this move in the waning months of his final term, when he’s no longer accountable to Colorado voters — and then specifically directed Colorado Air Quality Control Commission to take action before he leaves office. It appears Hickenlooper, who has made no secret of his national political ambitions, may be more interested in how his executive order is received by Democratic voters in cities like Los Angeles, San Francisco and Boston than by drivers across Colorado.
This is a stunning surrender of authority and accountability when one thinks about it, which will put California behind the steering wheel, dictating Colorado’s destiny, unless public opposition is heard loud and clear. Raise your objections now. Don’t wait until after the rules have been finalized to complain that you’ve been the victim of a regulatory hit-and-run.
Colorado PoliicsFull Article (https://coloradopolitics.com/california-vehicle-rules-kick-coloradans-out-of-the-drivers-seat/)
Ugh. I'm sure the back peddling after this decision will be, "But we'll have the control to change specific attributes if we want to, like adopting the international building code."
BPTactical
09-04-2018, 19:03
Fuck Hickenlooper
theGinsue
09-04-2018, 19:19
Fuck Hickenlooper
Ditto
DavieD55
09-04-2018, 20:06
Here is what California is up to. Could this be the future in Colorado...
California Lawmaker Introduces Bill To Ban Gas Powered Cars By 2040
Tim Pearce | Energy Reporter 9:19 PM 01/03/2018
A California lawmaker introduced a bill Wednesday that would ban the sale of gas-powered cars in the state by 2040.
Democratic Assemblymember Phil Ting introduced the Clean Cars 2040 Act in an effort to prevent climate change by cutting back on greenhouse gas emissions from vehicles. If passed, his bill would mandate that all passenger vehicles sold after Jan. 1, 2040, be zero-emission machines.
“California has long led the nation in promoting environmental protection and public health through visionary policies and technological innovations,” Ting said in a statement (https://a19.asmdc.org/press-releases/20180103-assemblymember-ting-introduces-clean-cars-2040) Wednesday. “It’s time that we clear the path for emissions-free transportation and take significant steps to achieve our ambitious emissions reduction goals.”
Billionaire environmentalist Tom Steyer, who is currently running a campaign (https://action.needtoimpeach.com/t4-act?sc=ad_gg_lba_us_impeach-.-.-.-60s-20171020&utm_source=gg&utm_medium=ad&utm_campaign=lba&utm_content=us_impeach-.-.-.-60s-20171020&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIz_zTz5S92AIVkEsNCh3sjA1IEAAYASAA EgINnPD_BwE&utm_expid=.VNDw) to impeach President Donald Trump, lent his support to the bill.
“Now more than ever, this legislation is needed to protect Californians’ health, create good-paying clean energy jobs, and reinforce our state’s role as a global climate leader,” Steyer said in a statement.
The new law would not apply to commercial vehicles weighing more than five tons. It also would not apply to cars owned by people moving into the state from elsewhere.
Ting is following (http://www.businessinsider.com/countries-banning-gas-cars-2017-10/#china-has-said-it-will-eventually-only-sell-electric-and-hybrid-vehicles-but-has-yet-to-set-a-concrete-timeline-4) the example of countries such as Norway, the United Kingdom and France, who have all pledged to ban the sale of gas-powered cars in the coming decades.
This is the first legislation of its kind introduced in the United States.
The daily Caller Full Article (http://dailycaller.com/2018/01/03/california-lawmaker-introduces-bill-to-ban-gas-powered-cars-by-2040/)
Countries are announcing plans to phase out petrol and diesel cars. Is yours on the list?
China is considering when to ban the production and sale of petrol and diesel cars. The move is aimed at helping the world's largest car producer and seller to tackle air pollution and boost development of electric and hybrid plug-in vehicles.
In a statement released through China’s official news agency, Xinhua, the government said that while no date had been set, it was performing “relevant research (https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/09/china-is-looking-at-banning-the-sale-of-petrol-and-diesel-cars)” in order to come up with a “timeline”.
The news comes hot on the heels of the Scottish government’s announcement (https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/09/scotland-wants-to-phase-out-petrol-and-diesel-cars-by-2032/) that it plans to phase out petrol and diesel cars by 2032.
Here are some of the other countries that are gearing up to replace fossil-fuel powered cars.
The UK
In July, the UK government unveiled plans to halt the production of new petrol and diesel cars (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-petrol-diesel-cars-stop-production-2040-climate-change-plan-a7842056.html) from 2040.
Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary, warned at the time that Britain "can't carry on" with petrol and diesel cars because of the damage that they cause to people's health and the planet. However, experts warn that the national grid will struggle to provide enough electricity (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/25/new-diesel-petrol-cars-banned-uk-roads-2040-government-unveils/) to cope with peak demand for charging electric vehicles, for example after rush hour.
Air pollution has been linked to 40,000 early deaths a year (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35629034) in the UK. And according to the UN, the country isn’t doing enough about it. The agency recently accused the UK government of flouting its duty to protect citizens (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/10/uk-flouting-duty-to-cut-air-pollution-deaths-says-un-human-rights-report) from toxic air pollution.
France
France has also said it will ban sales of petrol and diesel cars by 2040.
It’s part of a wide-ranging series of measures that the government hopes will position the country as a green leader (https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/07/france-banning-oil-gas-exploration/).
Initiatives include the ban on further licences being granted for oil and gas exploitation in France and its overseas territories.
Norway
Last year, it was widely reported that Norway was planning to phase out diesel and petrol cars by 2025. However, the reports were challenged as misleading (https://www.thelocal.no/20160606/no-norway-isnt-banning-diesel-and-petrol-cars-yet).
Although the news was enthusiastically received (https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/738805691528318976/photo/1) by the CEO of Tesla, Elon Musk, Norway's Minister of Climate and Environment explained that it was more of a policy than an outright ban (https://twitter.com/VidarHelgesen/status/739903920475115521).
Norway already has the highest per capita number of all-electric cars in the world (https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/03/norway-is-leading-the-charge-towards-electric-vehicles-and-just-hit-another-milestone-along-the-way-d69a8170-cbdc-4d8a-95cd-f9bdf3c8e3ae/).
The Netherlands
The Netherlands wants all new cars to be emissions free by 2030 (https://electrek.co/2017/10/10/netherlands-dutch-ban-petrol-diesel-cars-2030-electric-cars/) - effectively banning petrol and diesel sales.
The country has the highest number of charging points (https://www.government.nl/documents/speeches/2017/05/18/address-by-dutch-minister-for-the-environment-sharon-dijksma-at-the-zev-alliance) per capita in the world, and the second largest concentration of electric vehicles in Europe.
It aims to have 200,000 electric vehicles (https://www.government.nl/documents/speeches/2017/05/18/address-by-dutch-minister-for-the-environment-sharon-dijksma-at-the-zev-alliance) on the road by 2020, and for 10% of new sold vehicles to be electric.
Have you read?
Will this breakthrough see an electric car in every driveway? (https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/04/will-this-breakthrough-see-an-electric-car-in-every-driveway)
Which countries are speeding ahead with electric cars? (https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/04/which-countries-are-doing-most-to-embrace-electric-cars)
Electric cars are coming. But are cities ready for them? (https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/08/can-cities-handle-an-electric-car-boom)
Japan now has more electric charging points than petrol stations (https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/05/japan-now-has-more-electric-charging-points-than-petrol-stations)
Germany
Last year Germany’s Bundesrat passed a resolution (https://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmitt/2016/10/08/germanys-bundesrat-resolves-end-of-internal-combustion-engine/#5788b92060bd) to ban the internal combustion engine starting in 2030.
Though not legally binding, it's seen as a major step forward in the fight against emissions.
Germany already had a target of putting 1 million electric vehicles on the road by 2020, although Chancellor Merkel recently admitted that they may fall short of this target (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-electric-germany/germany-likely-to-miss-e-cars-target-says-merkel-idUSKCN18B24Z).
However, last month, Merkel hinted that it's only a matter of time (http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/21/news/economy/germany-diesel-gas-cars-ban-angela-merkel/index.html?iid=EL) before Germany follows France, Britain, India and other countries in banning sales of new cars fitted only with petrol or diesel engines.
India
The Indian government has announced that it wants to sell only electric cars within the next 13 years (https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/05/india-electric-car-sales-only-2030/).
India is facing an air pollution crisis that is responsible for 1.2 million deaths per year (https://secured-static.greenpeace.org/india/Global/india/Airpoclypse--Not-just-Delhi--Air-in-most-Indian-cities-hazardous--Greenpeace-report.pdf) and costing the economy an estimated 3% of GDP.
It’s been calculated that the gradual switch to electric vehicles (EVs) across India would decrease emissions by 37% by 2030 (https://www.rmi.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/NITI_RMI_India_Report_2017.pdf).
Other countries in the EV race
According to the International Energy Agency, Austria, Denmark, Ireland, Japan, Portugal, Korea and Spain have set official targets for electric car sales (https://www.iea.org/publications/freepublications/publication/GlobalEVOutlook2017.pdf).
The US doesn't have a federal policy, but at least eight states have set out goals, says the IEA.
What next for carmakers?
The Chinese government predicted “turbulent times” for domestic carmakers forced to adapt to its new targets.
And it seems that the global auto industry is also worried. US, European, Japanese and Korean carmakers recently sent a joint letter urging China to delay and soften planned quotas for sales of electric and hybrid cars, saying its proposals will be impossible to meet and would severely disrupt their businesses (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-autos-electric/global-automakers-call-on-china-to-ease-impossible-electric-car-rules-idUSKBN19Y1RC).
That said, some carmakers are embracing the rush to EVs.
In July, Volvo announced that every model it launches from 2019 will have an electric motor (https://www.media.volvocars.com/global/en-gb/media/pressreleases/210058/volvo-cars-to-go-all-electric).
BMW has followed suit, saying that all brands and model series can be electrified, with a full electric or plug-in hybrid drivetrain being offered in addition to the combustion engine.
Several other carmakers have also announced plans to ramp up (http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-autoshow-frankfurt-factbox/factbox-automakers-get-serious-about-electric-cars-idUKKCN1BN21P?il=0) their electric car production.
The impact on oil companies is expected to be huge, with some arguing that a focus by policymakers on electric vehicles risked diverting investment from efforts (https://www.ft.com/content/6995464a-94a2-11e7-bdfa-eda243196c2c) to make internal combustion engines more efficient, which they say has more potential to reduce emissions and oil demand sooner.
The IEA predicts that, with all the government policies in place, electric car stock may range between 9 and 20 million by 2020 and between 40 and 70 million by 2025 (https://www.iea.org/publications/freepublications/publication/GlobalEVOutlook2017.pdf)
WEC Full Article (https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/09/countries-are-announcing-plans-to-phase-out-petrol-and-diesel-cars-is-yours-on-the-list/)
I watched a Youtube video of a hearing on CARB regulation on big rigs. Then I watched 10 more or so. CARB has a lot of regulator juice. Truckers getting tickets for idling in 100 degree heat, even with a certified clean idle truck. Cost to keep the trucks on the road is a bunch higher than older trucks. Lots of guys getting out of the business because Kalli wont let you run a 2010 or older motor. I think the next wave is 2016 trucks or newer. Thing is all this emissions equipment cost a lot and hurts MPG. Cost of rules always get passed on to us. Higher cost of goods, less profit for the driver and smaller companies.
CO2 is not poison, it's plant food, and required for life on our planet.
I still get a kick out of comparing trends mandates in parts of the world that are nothing like our great nation.
CO2 is not poison, it's plant food, and required for life on our planet.
I still get a kick out of comparing trends mandates in parts of the world that are nothing like our great nation.
Like Radon, asbestos, and even ambient radiation readings?
And the next moron for governor thinks 1700s tech is the solution to traffic.
https://www.9news.com/article/news/politics/polis-says-rail-bike-lanes-part-of-the-front-range-traffic-solution/73-590762396
Rail is fixed, expensive and outdated. Add lanes and busses. Busses have fewer rules, cheaper, and routes can evolve with changing demographics and job centers.
Look at the current rail in Denver. Expensive to run, moves next to no one, goes nowhere useful.
Somehow, a reversible lane in the curvy mountains seems like a bad idea.
EDIT: It'd probably be cheaper and more effective to reopen that abandoned pass between Nederland and Winter Park.
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