View Full Version : Need "new" car.
So my oldest is about to get his licence and help with driving his siblings. I have a Yaris commuter car and a Suburban for snow, hard work, camping, weekends. I love the burb but my commute is 40 miles round trip, so the Yaris is the commuter car. The boy wants the burb but the school is far and I dont quite trust him with 5k lb of machine just yet. So for a few weeks I will dtive the burb and he gets the Yaris.
Then he either gets a car or keeps the Yaris and uses the Burb for snow while I get a newer car.
I stared looking around and limited myself to $15k, arounk 100k miles, awd, good milage , some pep, and I need comfort. (My commute is getting to 45+ min, and the Yaris is not comfy enough for that.) No caddies - my wife says I am too young, no lame 4 door house wife rides.
Anyone have suggestions? So far pep and decent milage means a smaller engine with a turbo.
We have 2 Ford Escapes (a 2011 and a 2012) and they are great little SUVs. Have a V6, so decent power for the size. AWD and can carry some cargo. We actaully have owned 3 of them--but our son totaled one . . . so we bought another. But something like that would be right in your price range.
Infinities don’t hold their value well, can probably get an awd g37 with 50-60k in that price range...
Though the pep and good mileage may not be compatable
With those parameters I would say look at Japanese makes and avoid Germans.
My parents have an older high mileage RX350 and love it. It goes to the Toyota dealership for maintenance and so far only tires, oil, battery, brakes, etc... Very reliable.
I don't think their mileage is great but it's a solid year-round car. They don't worry about snow/ice.
BladesNBarrels
09-23-2018, 10:39
If you're driving on I-25 from Longmont, I don't envy your commute.
Maybe comfort and a good sound system.
The 2014 Honda Accord has the highest rating for the price, safety, etc. in the used car forums.
We've been looking for my daughter, and there have been some in the range you want to spend.
Get a turbo subi. Checks all the boxes I had a pissed off forester that still got around 25mpg with 330 hp when it was stock it was close to thirty. And you have lots of models that have the turbo.
Jeffrey Lebowski
09-23-2018, 11:05
Excludes AWD, but in that price you are so close to a new Veloster.
I've had a lot of rentals, but that one is by-far my favorite in that price range for just a fun car, but I only had it for a long 4-5 day "weekend" and took it all over SLC.
Hardest choice would be paddle shifters or a manual.
I want one of these Ns: https://jalopnik.com/the-2019-hyundai-veloster-n-actually-kicks-ass-1827804312
There are several in the $13K range with turbo and manual on cars.com locally.
Peppy enough to be fun, but not enough power to get a 16 yo into serious trouble...at least any more than the rest of the toyotas and hondas.
OtterbatHellcat
09-23-2018, 11:31
76178
Cheap, sturdy in a crash, and a perfect first car for a youngster.
Ford Taurus SHO has some pep. Big, comfortable, AWD, and the resale is garbage. Can get a pretty low mileage car for your budget.
They didn't put this engine in the mustang because it would have been too close to the v8.
Great-Kazoo
09-23-2018, 11:44
get him beater for a first vehicle. We gave our daughter the 72 gmc farm truck as 1st vehicl, which she didn't want to drive. Till she was sitting at a light during the snow. Got rear ended exited the truck to see what damage was there, only to see the car that hit her was crushed back to the radiator . The 72, some paint off the bumper.
With a beater there's no serious issues if there's a fender bender, or it lunches a piston.
Infinities don’t hold their value well, can probably get an awd g37 with 50-60k in that price range...
I can vouch for that; exactly what I did. Sold my 2006 Subaru STI with 127K miles for $13k and bought a much nicer, more comfortable 2013 G37X with 24K miles for $17.5K. Haven’t regretted it for a second!
If you’re just looking for a cheap commuter option or a first car for him, go look at the AutoSource in Windsor. They have some branded title cars that shouldn’t have been branded.... and many more that should be branded but still may be of good value.
So, just to clarify, the “new” vehicle is for you and the Yaris will be handed down to the kid?
BushMasterBoy
09-23-2018, 16:16
I bought a gently used white 2001 Mercury Grand Marquis for $4000 last month. Still has new car smell. Has 53K miles. Interior nearly perfect, leather seats. Dark tinted windows. Added a 40'000 BTU trans cooler and coil springs. New tires shocks etc. Now I'm nearly $6K into it,insurance is 240 bucks a year. Looks like a cop car. Gas mileage sucks, 19 city/25 hiway. Power everything...even power adjust brake and gas pedal. 4.6L V8 with overhead cams and fuel injection is easy to service and plenty of parts available. I wish I could have found a Crown Victoria Police Interceptor with low mileage...but you can't always get what you want. The alloy wheels are made in Italy. It sold for $27'000 in 2001. I have the original window sticker. I see a few low mileage on Craigs for twice what I paid, the newer ones are flex fuel. Not sure if I made the right choice, but I really like driving it. Now if I can just find some body armor plates for it...and maybe a rack for an AR!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Panther_platform
Zundfolge
09-23-2018, 17:43
W123 Mercedes Diesel. No its not quick, nor fast but its comfortable and borderline indestructible (and can run on waste oil if the SHTF).
Sorry for late reply, been on my roof all day spackling, caulking, priming and painting.
Car is for me, not the boy.
Zund, I had a 123 before in brick burnt orange, kind of over that car.
I will have to look at a subaru. Smaller turbo engine might be the way to get pep and milage.
BushMasterBoy
09-23-2018, 20:37
I drove a 2015 VW Jetta TDI diesel last week. Friend of mine bought it from a dealer. I changed the oil on it, which was kind of a bitch. You have to remove 11 screws to remove a cover. But it drove really nice. Performance was on par with a gas powered car. 6 speed manual w/ 2 liter turbo charged diesel. They paid just under 12K with 51k miles on it. 100,000 mile warranty on engine only. I guess VW is desperate to sell these reprogrammed diesels. This Jetta is loaded and comes with Sirius satellite radio.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal
Crazy coincidence; I just posted up my beloved 2011 Kia Optima SX turbo (https://fortcollins.craigslist.org/cto/d/11-kia-optima-sx-turbo-heated/6705339612.html) the other day to Craigslist for $5.00 under your target budget. It matches all of your parameters save for AWD which I would personally say is unnecessary & adds more maintenance & cost when get into higher mileage plus lowers MPG.
I bought it new & for 100k miles now we've never had a single problem. It's got features & options you still don't find on cars today. I already miss the vented/cooled seats and heated front and rear seats will be awesome in the coming months. For under $15k you won't find a better car & I firmly believe that. We hate selling it & know we're going to miss it. It's been the best car we've owned in a long list.
I'm not too far away & have title in-hand.
https://images.craigslist.org/00w0w_8Y2YPkXpWWZ_600x450.jpg
Another vote for Infinity. A friend bought one last year for way less than I thought it should be. Well then they were on my radar. I started bumping into younger people all over that were picking them up for not much. People that have them seem to like them long term. If you can live with a manual, the Mazda Speed 6 is AWD, and peppy.
hurley842002
09-24-2018, 09:07
Crazy coincidence; I just posted up my beloved 2011 Kia Optima SX turbo (https://fortcollins.craigslist.org/cto/d/11-kia-optima-sx-turbo-heated/6705339612.html) the other day to Craigslist for $5.00 under your target budget. It matches all of your parameters save for AWD which I would personally say is unnecessary & adds more maintenance & cost when get into higher mileage plus lowers MPG.
I bought it new & for 100k miles now we've never had a single problem. It's got features & options you still don't find on cars today. I already miss the vented/cooled seats and heated front and rear seats will be awesome in the coming months. For under $15k you won't find a better car & I firmly believe that. We hate selling it & know we're going to miss it. It's been the best car we've owned in a long list.
I'm not too far away & have title in-hand.
https://images.craigslist.org/00w0w_8Y2YPkXpWWZ_600x450.jpg
Those cars are pretty slick, my wife looked at one a few years back, but she ended up with a VW Jetta (she has a thing for Jetta's).
Those cars are pretty slick, my wife looked at one a few years back, but she ended up with a VW Jetta (she has a thing for Jetta's).
If you would've told me before driving one that I'd trade my 2-year-old Audi for a Kia I would've told you you were crazy. It seriously made my German-made A4 feel like a rattle trap though. Man I love this car. Come drive it & you'll be amazed by how much car $15k can buy you.
hurley842002
09-24-2018, 09:40
If you would've told me before driving one that I'd trade my 2-year-old Audi for a Kia I would've told you you were crazy. It seriously made my German-made A4 feel like a rattle trap though. Man I love this car. Come drive it & you'll be amazed by how much car $15k can buy you.
If you would have told me 20 years ago, that KIA would put out anything that would compete with the big name foreign cars out there, I would have told you, you were crazy, but alas, they have. Actually what got us looking at the Optima was the rental car my wife had, after someone rear ended and totaled her previous Jetta, it wasn't even the turbo version, but we were still impressed with that car. If I were the OP I would come and check out your KIA.
Hyundai in the '80s was a joke. That country seriously got their poop in a group.
Anything within the Hyundai Kia Automotive Group (Hyundai/Kia/Genesis) is pretty well built, and the Genesis line is very nice. I miss features that I have on my 2012 Hyundai Azera that my 2016 Mercedes GL 450 doesn't have.
If you would have told me 20 years ago, that KIA would put out anything that would compete with the big name foreign cars out there, I would have told you, you were crazy, but alas, they have. Actually what got us looking at the Optima was the rental car my wife had, after someone rear ended and totaled her previous Jetta, it wasn't even the turbo version, but we were still impressed with that car. If I were the OP I would come and check out your KIA.
They've made a helluva name for themselves and I can attest to why that is first-hand. I'd love to keep the car as it's one of the best vehicles I've ever owned and I know that years from now I'll look back on the time we had with this car with very fond memories. I just can't justify three vehicles for my wife and I or I'd keep it for another 7 years plus.
Seriously OP, let me know if you want to come take a look at this car. I promise you won't be disappointed.
Thank you all for the sugestions and offers to sell me a car. I have been looking at craigslist snd autotrader to see what is available.
I got to be firm on AWD so that when me and wife swap cars she stays on the road. Based on the milage/$ I am seeing some 100,000 mile bmw wagons are in the price range too, which is strange. Got to go out there and test drive a few cars.
Zundfolge
09-25-2018, 15:16
I am seeing some 100,000 mile bmw wagons are in the price range too...
Ooh, I smell money pit. Unless they made an AWD version of the E28 or E30.
Thank you all for the sugestions and offers to sell me a car. I have been looking at craigslist snd autotrader to see what is available.
I got to be firm on AWD so that when me and wife swap cars she stays on the road. Based on the milage/$ I am seeing some 100,000 mile bmw wagons are in the price range too, which is strange. Got to go out there and test drive a few cars.
Like I said on page 1, avoid BMWs at that mileage. They take a serious hit at 50K because that is when the warranty runs out and everyone knows what happens (read bimmerforums.com on any specific model you are thinking about).
They might be fun cars but even if you're a wrench turner, you are going to spend some serious $$$ at the dealership.
I just did the water pump in our X5 and saved ~$1,400 over dealership est. (pump, pulley, belts) so I felt pretty good until I started getting TPS malfunctions at ~$400/sensor. Now I'm faced with another trip and more $$$ spent at Schomp. There's just too much on these cars that break down and cost a lot because it can't all be DIY. Shop rate is shop rate even if your car is 10 years old. And even trivial stuff like the battery has to be programmed to the car!!!
Thank you all for the sugestions and offers to sell me a car. I have been looking at craigslist snd autotrader to see what is available.
I got to be firm on AWD so that when me and wife swap cars she stays on the road. Based on the milage/$ I am seeing some 100,000 mile bmw wagons are in the price range too, which is strange. Got to go out there and test drive a few cars.
Why does she need AWD to stay on the road? My wife has driven this FWD Kia for 5 years now without a single issue. FWD is more than sufficient.
Besides, AWD isn't going to make you stop any sooner which is the important part. AWD will cost you more money up front and will cost you more money per mile to drive due to added drivetrain to maintain and lower fuel economy. I used to think that AWD was required in Colorado and we spent too much money over the years because once I realized FWD worked every bit as good (especially for the wife who doesn't drive "spiritedly" when the roads are messy like I tend to) I doubt I'll go back to AWD. I certainly wouldn't put a premium on it for my wife to drive as it doesn't make her any safer the way marketing would have us believe.
AWD only helps for acceleration and half the time either 1) you can't accelerate quick due to conditions 2) you can't accelerate quickly because everyone else has 2wd or the one that is most likely 3) both. Same applies to my pick-up, sure I can throw it in 4-hi to accelerate faster but I find that I never do and leave it in 2wd since I can't use the 4-hi with everyone accelerating slowly anyway. I feel as though I'm an above average driver but my wife has put about 70k miles on that car in all conditions and has never once said she misses our Audi cars that we've had due to being AWD.
As for 100k mile BMW wagons... super pass. They're cheap because the maintenance costs will bury you man. Don't do aging European sedans/wagons as they still have the same absurd price tag for parts as when they were $50k it's just that you have to buy the parts more often now. That's why their value falls off of a cliff once that warranty expires. Nobody wants to pay the horrendous price tag that comes with servicing them. Even oil changes require special canister filters and all sorts of crazy crap that makes them expensive for basic things even if you do the work yourself which you will have to do because if you take it to a shop every other week when something comes up you'll have to sell the house to pay for it all.
That's why you see $215k AMG cars that are selling for $25k 5 years later because the maintenance costs are through the ceiling. The suspension on them alone is about $3k and needs replaced every other year or so. What about a simple plug change on that AMG V12, think it's what... 12 plugs? Maybe 24 if it has two per cylinder which you see sometimes? Nope... 48 plugs!!! I'll let you take a guess as to what that simple maintenance task costs. ROFL
Even if you don't buy our car my personal opinion is you really don't need AWD in Colorado. Narrowing your search to only AWD will probably keep you from testing out some really great cars. You also REALLY don't want an aging import that didn't comes from China, Korea or Japan. Those are the ones that still keep a high level of reliability and the parts for them is a fraction of their European competition.
You sure about that 48 plug thing? My hemi has 16.
BushMasterBoy
09-25-2018, 17:00
I don't know if this is true, but according to some VW forum members the 2015 TDI exhaust costs $9500 to replace if you run it out of diesel exhaust fluid. It looks like a 4 inch stainless exhaust with a bulge for the cat converter. I am assuming the exhaust is extremely insulated for sound proofing. Also dealer charges $2500 for timing belt replacement @ 120k miles. It has to be done,a broken belt destroys engine. This includes water pump and all idler pulleys.
I replaced my Mercury water pump in 20 minutes last month. Cost 54 bucks at Oreillys.
I really don't know what to recommend in the new cars anymore. The new Ford diesel trucks, you have to lift the body off the frame to service the EGR/emissions.
Good luck with whatever you end up buying!
BMW's are cheap to buy because they're expensive to maintain... I looked seriously at a couple 3 series ones before getting the Infiniti G37x. You might also want to seek out a G25x. They're a smaller engine, more fuel efficient and cheaper to buy.... looks like a 2011 starts around $8K. https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/searchresults.xhtml?makeCodeList=INFIN&modelCodeList=G25&zip=80602
Why does she need AWD to stay on the road? My wife has driven this FWD Kia for 5 years now without a single issue. FWD is more than sufficient.
Besides, AWD isn't going to make you stop any sooner which is the important part. AWD will cost you more money up front and will cost you more money per mile to drive due to added drivetrain to maintain and lower fuel economy. I used to think that AWD was required in Colorado and we spent too much money over the years because once I realized FWD worked every bit as good (especially for the wife who doesn't drive "spiritedly" when the roads are messy like I tend to) I doubt I'll go back to AWD. I certainly wouldn't put a premium on it for my wife to drive as it doesn't make her any safer the way marketing would have us believe.
AWD only helps for acceleration and half the time either 1) you can't accelerate quick due to conditions 2) you can't accelerate quickly because everyone else has 2wd or the one that is most likely 3) both. Same applies to my pick-up, sure I can throw it in 4-hi to accelerate faster but I find that I never do and leave it in 2wd since I can't use the 4-hi with everyone accelerating slowly anyway. I feel as though I'm an above average driver but my wife has put about 70k miles on that car in all conditions and has never once said she misses our Audi cars that we've had due to being AWD.
As for 100k mile BMW wagons... super pass. They're cheap because the maintenance costs will bury you man. Don't do aging European sedans/wagons as they still have the same absurd price tag for parts as when they were $50k it's just that you have to buy the parts more often now. That's why their value falls off of a cliff once that warranty expires. Nobody wants to pay the horrendous price tag that comes with servicing them. Even oil changes require special canister filters and all sorts of crazy crap that makes them expensive for basic things even if you do the work yourself which you will have to do because if you take it to a shop every other week when something comes up you'll have to sell the house to pay for it all.
That's why you see $215k AMG cars that are selling for $25k 5 years later because the maintenance costs are through the ceiling. The suspension on them alone is about $3k and needs replaced every other year or so. What about a simple plug change on that AMG V12, think it's what... 12 plugs? Maybe 24 if it has two per cylinder which you see sometimes? Nope... 48 plugs!!! I'll let you take a guess as to what that simple maintenance task costs. ROFL
Even if you don't buy our car my personal opinion is you really don't need AWD in Colorado. Narrowing your search to only AWD will probably keep you from testing out some really great cars. You also REALLY don't want an aging import that didn't comes from China, Korea or Japan. Those are the ones that still keep a high level of reliability and the parts for them is a fraction of their European competition.
Let me know. I am extremely interested in $25k AMG which MSRP was 215k. My guess is SLS.
While I completely agree with the AWD vs FWD, often times we do things to make our wives happy, even though it doesn't make sense.
If someone is going to get European, especially M, AMG, RS, etc, they must know some DIYs beyond average Joe Lexus or Acura.
First thing to do after purchasing the vehicle is to join all the forums as you can.
BMW charges
280 for 10w-60 oil change for M (130 diy)
300+ for differential fluid with friction mod ($40 diy with royal purple, which is better than OEM imo)
500ish for spark plug change (90-140 diy and with or without tool).
It is still expensive diy.
Now,if we talk about GTR brake rotor.....
While I completely agree with the AWD vs FWD, often times we do things to make our wives happy, even though it doesn't make sense.
/End Thread
You can be right, or you can be happy. Choose.
Grant H.
09-25-2018, 19:49
/End Thread
Agreed.
Zundfolge
09-25-2018, 19:53
I don't know if this is true, but according to some VW forum members the 2015 TDI exhaust costs $9500 to replace if you run it out of diesel exhaust fluid.
Diesel Exhaust Fluid? that sounds like one of those faux products dishonest mechanics sell, like muffler bearings or blinker fluid (yes I know its real but still sounds sketchy).
Didn't VW have to buy back all the TDIs?
Nearly all, but some were able to pass with re-programming.
BushMasterBoy
09-25-2018, 20:58
The VW's at Pike Peak International Raceway are all diesel buy backs. I think most are not back on the road again because there are so many locally and not enough repair stations. When folks found out VW was going to buy them back, they quit maintaining them properly.
Rockauto at present has zero inventory of fuel injectors for these cars. That's a bad sign. VW Dealer in COS only had 6 oil filters in stock when I went there. I bought half his inventory. Another bad sign.
The upside is you can go 600 miles on 14 gallons of diesel. More miles if you can hypermile it. And it drives really nice. I like it, but I am really leary of being able to maintain it. My plan is to baby it with frequent fluid/filter changes. And also keep the DEF tank full. It is heated to keep the DEF from freezing.
Grant H.
09-25-2018, 21:14
Diesel Exhaust Fluid? that sounds like one of those faux products dishonest mechanics sell, like muffler bearings or blinker fluid (yes I know its real but still sounds sketchy).
Didn't VW have to buy back all the TDIs?
It's a real thing.
Thanks to the EPA we get to pour refined piss in a tank on newer diesels, that gets used to "eliminate harmful exhaust elements"...
If you manage to run a DEF requiring diesel COMPLETELY out (to the point of causing damage) of DEF, you deserve a $9500 repair bill... They have warnings, and dingers, and signs, and flashing lights, and count downs with mileage ranges, etc...
Edit - nevermind...
Zundfolge
09-27-2018, 11:36
Ok this is a hair out of your price range, but when I stumbled across it I got kinda excited.
https://denver.craigslist.org/ctd/d/1989-bmw-e30-325ix-touring/6693905956.html
https://images.craigslist.org/01010_cjmclP0OvM6_600x450.jpg
Euro spec E30 Touring AWD with a manual.
(same seller has a 2WD version here: https://denver.craigslist.org/ctd/d/1989-bmw-e30-euro-s50b30-g265/6688454355.html )
Ok this is a hair out of your price range, but when I stumbled across it I got kinda excited.
https://denver.craigslist.org/ctd/d/1989-bmw-e30-325ix-touring/6693905956.html
https://images.craigslist.org/01010_cjmclP0OvM6_600x450.jpg
Euro spec E30 Touring AWD with a manual.
(same seller has a 2WD version here: https://denver.craigslist.org/ctd/d/1989-bmw-e30-euro-s50b30-g265/6688454355.html )
That's a lot of money for a 30 year old 168HP 3 wagon with 146K miles!
Will it actually sell for that?
The old 8s do very well but they are collectible. A 3 though?
BushMasterBoy
09-27-2018, 12:17
Everything rubber on that car needs changed. All hoses, cooling and brakes for starters. The hesitation is probably a vacuum line or a failed gasket. $25K I'm laughing.
Zundfolge
09-27-2018, 13:13
That's a lot of money for a 30 year old 168HP 3 wagon with 146K miles!
Will it actually sell for that?
The old 8s do very well but they are collectible. A 3 though?
E30 Tourings are rare in the US, plus its Euro Spec, plus it has a manual, plus its an iX (AWD) ... I bet he gets close to that for it.
E30 Tourings are rare in the US, plus its Euro Spec, plus it has a manual, plus its an iX (AWD) ... I bet he gets close to that for it.
Wow!
The only way I would consider it, is if it was a childhood car. That would be cool.
Jeffrey Lebowski
09-27-2018, 21:38
I got to be firm on AWD so that when me and wife swap cars she stays on the road. Based on the milage/$ I am seeing some 100,000 mile bmw wagons are in the price range too, which is strange. Got to go out there and test drive a few cars.
For a point of reference - I had a 2011 E91 (328xi) 3.0L wagon which was awesome and which I sold to my boss for $17 or 17.5 last summer with about 50k miles on it. I think the dealer would have given me slightly less and selling to someone else slightly more because it was really immaculate (3rd car). I personally agree on the AWD thing. Of course you can do FWD, but why bother when AWD is so much easier? I’m not even thinking of snow, but even rain in summer. It sure was awesome on corners.
Reason I sold it was I needed more space. Loved that car.
Would I have wanted it as much out of warranty? The E91s have no turbo and are really pretty solid. Yeah, I’d have kept it awhile, and I did pay for some “external” maintenance, but nothing major. My wife was getting nervous about the warranty ending, though.
Newer turbos? Same dealer advisor said lease only.
For a point of reference - I had a 2011 E91 (328xi) 3.0L wagon which was awesome and which I sold to my boss for $17 or 17.5 last summer with about 50k miles on it. I think the dealer would have given me slightly less and selling to someone else slightly more because it was really immaculate (3rd car). I personally agree on the AWD thing. Of course you can do FWD, but why bother when AWD is so much easier? I’m not even thinking of snow, but even rain in summer. It sure was awesome on corners.
Reason I sold it was I needed more space. Loved that car.
Would I have wanted it as much out of warranty? The E91s have no turbo and are really pretty solid. Yeah, I’d have kept it awhile, and I did pay for some “external” maintenance, but nothing major. My wife was getting nervous about the warranty ending, though.
Newer turbos? Same dealer advisor said lease only.
Very true on awd.
E9x rear wheel for rear wheel drive (at least one that I have) eats up the tire. I got stuck 5 times 18-19 winter and tire is bald now after about 13k on those rear tires.
Surprisingly the front still look new.
Now I gotta buy those prime (harder compound high mileage) tires and sacrifice performance.
Jeffrey Lebowski
09-28-2018, 17:56
Very true on awd.
E9x rear wheel for rear wheel drive (at least one that I have) eats up the tire. I got stuck 5 times 18-19 winter and tire is bald now after about 13k on those rear tires.
Surprisingly the front still look new.
Now I gotta buy those prime (harder compound high mileage) tires and sacrifice performance.
I definitely did the sporty tires summer / winter tires in winter thing.
Edit: Just another car for car data point - my wife and a coworker both had 2005 Volvo S60s. Ours was AWD, her’s FWD. She absolutely hated it and thought it awful in snow. Ours was a tank and my wife rarely bothered with the wrangler. Volvo’s AWD is respectable, but certainly not as good as others. Both were women from the upper Midwest who grew up in FWD cars on snow and black ice. I think you can definitely do FWD here (and easier than the Midwest), but I just don’t see why you’d bother, personally. Unless it is your 3rd car for fun / summer / whatever.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.