Electrical gremlins-Looking for advice

[TFOGGER]

Tonight when I got home, no lights in the kitchen. They worked fine this morning. They are wired through a 15 amp AFCI breaker, which was tripped. I tried to reset it, after waiting a few minutes. It immediately trips. Knowing that AFCI breakers are persnickety, I went ahead and replaced it(pretty much the limit of my electrical abilities), no change. It acts like a dead short. All loads on the circuit are turned off. What's my next step?

Thanks in advance,

Jim

[ChickNorris]

Wish I had something good to say but it may be as bad as you're thinking. Sorry, that sucks.

I might try turning off all the other breakers except the AFCI you just replaced. Turn it back on & reintroduce loads one circuit at a time. That may help you find the fault. This is not my specialty however, so there could be a better way.

[ChickNorris]

Might be what is plugged in, even if its turned off, including light bulbs or a toaster. Anything plugged in.

Start there

[TFOGGER]

Might be what is plugged in, even if its turned off, including light bulbs or a toaster. Anything plugged in.

Start there

Nothing plugged in, only lights on this circuit, all turned off at the moment. may try disconnecting one switch at a time until the breaker doesn't trip.

[ChickNorris]

Right, you said lights in the kitchen. Yep I'd try the switches.

Silly, dumb idea I'll mention anyway: Anyone recently hang a picture or something similar in the vacinity?

[jslo]

Not an electrician, hopefully one chimes in, but most I've dealt with had a light that blinks an error code. Had one that gave us fits in a new home. Ended up cutting out all the push connectors in the recessed cans and replaced with wire nuts. Persnickety is not the word I used for 1st generation POS.

[BushMasterBoy]

Check for a short circuit with an ohm meter if you have one. Make sure there is no voltage with a volt meter first. I just use a digital multi meter. Do you have a garbage disposal ? Could have corroded through, mine did that a few years ago. You most likely have a short or an arcing somewhere. I hope it isn't a rodent problem. Somebody thought it would be "green" to make insulation plastic from soy beans.
Sometimes it helps to draw a wiring diagram or schematic.

[TFOGGER]

Yeah, the only thing on that circuit is lights. Dishwasher, appliance sockets, garbage disposal are all on different breakers and all work. I'm probably capable of tracking this down, but not with my wife looking over my shoulder. F@xk it, I'm gonna have to call an electrician. Any recommendation for an honest residential electrician on the east side of the metro area that doesn't charge a mint? [ROFL1]

[TFOGGER]

To add: Based on the way the breaker trips, and the little diagnostic LED on it, the breaker is tripping on load, not an arc fault. Definitely a short, probably between the breaker and the first switch on the circuit. Double f@ck!!!

[Erni]

Silly question. What kind of light? Can you unscrew them all and check if it still trips?

[TFOGGER]

Silly question. What kind of light? Can you unscrew them all and check if it still trips?

I've tried that, no change.

[BushMasterBoy]

Do you have a multimeter? Can you borrow one? The multimeter will tell what is wrong. They usually cost about $20. Turn off the power to that circuit by flipping the breaker. Check the circuit with "volts" setting. If volts is zero, you are safe to check resistance. Check resistance with multimeter across contacts of light socket. Zero resistance is a short circuit. Infinite is a open circuit, which is good.


https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southwire-Digital-600-Volt-Manual-Ranging-Multimeter/50081424

[TFOGGER]

Do you have a multimeter? Can you borrow one? The multimeter will tell what is wrong. They usually cost about $20. Turn off the power to that circuit by flipping the breaker. Check the circuit with "volts" setting. If volts is zero, you are safe to check resistance. Check resistance with multimeter across contacts of light socket. Zero resistance is a short circuit. Infinite is a open circuit, which is good.


https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southwire-Digital-600-Volt-Manual-Ranging-Multimeter/50081424

I have a Fluke that I use pretty much daily at work. I just lack the motivation to screw with it myself...LOL

The breaker trips with all loads turned off or disconnected, so I'm relatively certain it's not a socket. Hopefully it's in one of the switch boxes or in a junction box. Definitely not in the breaker box, I looked.

[jslo]

First thing I'd do, easiest, is to check the switch connections. If they used the stab connections, I'd change to the screw terminals.

[TFOGGER]

Called a friend of a friend, he's coming out today to look...
I can hear the cash registers now...

[jslo]

Would not suggest this in a clients house, but in my house, especially on a lighting circuit giving me fits, that ARC fault would be changed out to a standard breaker.

[TFOGGER]

Would not suggest this in a clients house, but in my house, especially on a lighting circuit giving me fits, that ARC fault would be changed out to a standard breaker.

I swapped it with another breaker in the box(standard, not AFCI), same result. Definitely a dead short.

[SideShow Bob]

What room is above your kitchen ? Did you do any remodel or floor/ Lower wall penetration above the kitchen ? Do you have recessed can lights in the kitchen ?
Have you removed the switch plates in the kitchen to look for any obvious damage or burn marks ?

[TFOGGER]

What room is above your kitchen ? Did you do any remodel or floor/ Lower wall penetration above the kitchen ? Do you have recessed can lights in the kitchen ?
Have you removed the switch plates in the kitchen to look for any obvious damage or burn marks ?

Our home office is above the kitchen, no recent renovations (5+ years). no can lights. I haven't pulled the switch plates, if I was gonna attempt the repair that would be my next step. I'm betting on a direct short in one of the switch boxes. I'm at work today, so I'm just gonna bite the bullet and let the electrician handle it. It's only money, after all, I can always make more..LOL

[TFOGGER]

Got it sorted. It was the old pull chain switch for the light in the damn crawl space. 4 hours and $350 later...big shout out to Alex at A to Z Electric!