Chicago is in such a state of decay...

[Gman]

...that this is newsworthy:

Chicago goes 22 hours without anyone being shot (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/chicago-goes-22-hours-without-anyone-being-shot/ar-BBNHRNI)


CHICAGO — No one was shot in Chicago for more than 22 hours Friday, police said. From 12:35 a.m. to shortly after 10:55 p.m., shootings citywide did not result in any reported deaths or injuries.

Then a 39-year-old man walking in the South Austin neighborhood heard gunshots, police said. A bullet grazed his right leg.

About 3 miles southeast, in the Lawndale neighborhood, the only other person shot Friday in Chicago was also walking down the street, when someone tried to rob him.

So long as their accuracy sucks, or someone isn't somehow hit by a stray gunshot, things are wonderful.

[Skip]

They need more gun laws!

So does Denver.

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/crime/a-streak-of-violent-crimes-has-many-in-lodo-concerned-for-their-safety

[BladesNBarrels]

14th and Market?
That was a dangerous area and skid-row when I was growing up in the 50's & 60's.
No one went there after dark. It wasn't shootings then, I admit, but beatings and stabbings.
Nope, no gun violence here.

[Irving]

We saw someone get shot, then the next weekend stabbed, around that intersection about 12ish years ago.

[DenverGP]

We saw someone get shot, then the next weekend stabbed, around that intersection about 12ish years ago.

You'd think that person would have avoided that intersection after having been shot there the previous weekend...

[Gman]

You'd think that person would have avoided that intersection after having been shot there the previous weekend...

I can sometimes be overly literal...so it amuses me to think that I'm not alone. [Coffee]

[Bailey Guns]

You'd think that person would have avoided that intersection after having been shot there the previous weekend...

That's funny. I was thinking along the sames lines...like, damn, that's some bad luck. Then I realized what he meant.

[Irving]

I realized it sounded that way before I posted bu thought, meh.

[MrPrena]

Someone told me crappy part of Detroit is more dangerous than scrappy part of Chicago.

Which crappy part is worse?

[DireWolf]

They need more gun laws!

So does Denver.

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/crime/a-streak-of-violent-crimes-has-many-in-lodo-concerned-for-their-safety


From that article:

...Witnesses say a local security guard who was working at one of the bars was the person who died....

This may rub some the wrong way (and without any real details, this could possibly be an incorrect perspective), but - based on some of the behavior I've seen, even recently, during the occasional (very infrequent) outings down there, I tend to believe there is a VERY high likelihood that said "security guard" may have deliberately instigated/escalated the issue and got exactly what was coming to them...

Requiring properly trained/certified employees for security staff would be a very good move in the right direction.

[BushMasterBoy]

This ain't really suitable for work. Guy throws another off a bridge into the ocean. Supposedly the guy thrown off bridge suffered a nasty cut on the eyebrow.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6oZzXPocwI

[TheGrey]

From that article:


This may rub some the wrong way (and without any real details, this could possibly be an incorrect perspective), but - based on some of the behavior I've seen, even recently, during the occasional (very infrequent) outings down there, I tend to believe there is a VERY high likelihood that said "security guard" may have deliberately instigated/escalated the issue and got exactly what was coming to them...

Requiring properly trained/certified employees for security staff would be a very good move in the right direction.

Well holy jumping to conclusions, Batman. That's a hell of a lot of stew you're making from one oyster. And a really offensive stew it is, too.

Here's a follow up. Yeah, you're right. He probably instigated it, doing his job instead of letting the thug do whatever to everyone else. Harshing everyone's buzz. Getting into a physical altercation and everything. Who did he think he was, some glorified bouncer? He got EXACTLY what he deserved, right?

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/crime/security-officer-shot-and-killed-in-lodo-leaves-behind-young-daughter-family

DENVER -- Police are asking for the public's help to find the person who shot and killed a security officer in downtown Denver early Friday morning. Lucardio (Luke) Kroener, 28, was working in the area when the shooting occurred near the intersection of 14th and Market Streets in LoDo.

DPD released the Crime Alert below describing the events that occurred and a description of the suspect involved.

Kroener leaves behind a young daughter, girlfriend and family. His sister, Liz Rado, shared the statement below with Denver7 remembering her brother.

“Luke was an amazing father always playing with his baby girl. He would dance with her in the middle of the street, he would watch My Little Pony with her for hours with her. They loved pizza. They could eat pizza all day long. Emma was his life, he would do anything for her. He would give the world for her. That was her daddy, her daddy Luke. He was getting ready to start in the police academy and worked hard to give the world for his daughter, now she is going to grow up without her daddy. He will miss seeing her grow and Esmeralda is left without a partner in life. My mother is left without a son, we are left without a brother, an uncle, a nephew and we will miss Luke for the rest of our lives.”

There is a GoFundMe page setup to support the family.

[DireWolf]

Well holy jumping to conclusions, Batman. That's a hell of a lot of stew you're making from one oyster. And a really offensive stew it is, too.

Here's a follow up. Yeah, you're right. He probably instigated it, doing his job instead of letting the thug do whatever to everyone else. Harshing everyone's buzz. Getting into a physical altercation and everything. Who did he think he was, some glorified bouncer? He got EXACTLY what he deserved, right?

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/crime/security-officer-shot-and-killed-in-lodo-leaves-behind-young-daughter-family

DENVER -- Police are asking for the public's help to find the person who shot and killed a security officer in downtown Denver early Friday morning. Lucardio (Luke) Kroener, 28, was working in the area when the shooting occurred near the intersection of 14th and Market Streets in LoDo.

DPD released the Crime Alert below describing the events that occurred and a description of the suspect involved.

Kroener leaves behind a young daughter, girlfriend and family. His sister, Liz Rado, shared the statement below with Denver7 remembering her brother.

“Luke was an amazing father always playing with his baby girl. He would dance with her in the middle of the street, he would watch My Little Pony with her for hours with her. They loved pizza. They could eat pizza all day long. Emma was his life, he would do anything for her. He would give the world for her. That was her daddy, her daddy Luke. He was getting ready to start in the police academy and worked hard to give the world for his daughter, now she is going to grow up without her daddy. He will miss seeing her grow and Esmeralda is left without a partner in life. My mother is left without a son, we are left without a brother, an uncle, a nephew and we will miss Luke for the rest of our lives.”

There is a GoFundMe page setup to support the family.Like I said, I knew that would rub some the wrong way, but I call things like I see them, and initial inferences based on likelihood given observable patterns is completely legit as a starting point.

To be clear, (and I stated that there may indeed have been circumstances which would alter my opinion in that 'specific' instance), I have NO issue with people doing their job (particularly anyone in a safety/security related role), and while I have way too much integrity and self control to ever allow myself to get pulled into those types of situations while out-on-the-town (regardless of provocation), I have directly observed behavior on the part of "honest bouncers/security just doing their job" that would get them instantly beat down, or worse, in nearly ANY other setting where not surrounded by a bunch of other security personnel, cameras, and LEO...

Maybe in this case it was a person of integrity and sound mind that performed his job to the best of his ability, and was an unfortunate victim of senseless violence. If so, then I have nothing but sympathy for him and his family.

That said, It's also possible he was a semi-legitemized thug who was eager (or at best indifferent) to start shit knowing that his bros and any nearby LEO would preclude the possibility of any real ramifications from his actions. I don't spend much time in that area of late, but I have witnessed this exact type of situation/behavior on multiple occasions, both locally and elsewhere, and lack of any real vetting/qualifications beyond just "looking like a tough guy" (as stated in the article in question) is absolutely a potential contributor to these types of extreme situations; Even if this is only true in small percentage of instances, the number of bad apples is likely high enough to be statistically relevant.

ETA: Given the threat modeling, risk avoidance/mitigation/acceptance, and incident/crisis response aspects of my day job, there have been numerous instances where I have been forced to recommend termination/seperation of specific personnel due to their unfitness for the role they were in.

It's never personal, but always based upon observations, behavioral patterns, and quantification of event/outcome probabilities given those considerations.

Once again, with very limited information related to this event (as has been called out), my original comments were based simply on prior observations and potential likelihoods given those observations, particularly as related to "nightclub/bar" security/bouncers (these specific perspectives/observations don't apply outside of that context). Nothing personal, and hopefully that wasn't the case in this instance, but have seen too many times to ignore the possibility. If they did if fact initiate/escalate the issue unnecessarily, then no sympathy whatsoever.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming...

[Aloha_Shooter]

Wish I could say I was surprised or that it mattered much to me but Chicago is such a s---thole that the only thing that matters to me is how far I can stay away from it.

[Gman]

Another Democrat-run oasis. [Sarcasm2]

For regularly updated Chicago statistics - https://heyjackass.com/

[rondog]

This ain't really suitable for work. Guy throws another off a bridge into the ocean. Supposedly the guy thrown off bridge suffered a nasty cut on the eyebrow.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6oZzXPocwI

Shoulda stood on his neck until he stopped yapping.

[BlasterBob]

14th and Market?
That was a dangerous area and skid-row when I was growing up in the 50's & 60's.
No one went there after dark. It wasn't shootings then, I admit, but beatings and stabbings.
Nope, no gun violence here.

When I lived in Chicago back in the late 50’s, the nastiest area was 35th and State. Also the Cabrini Green Project.

[BushMasterBoy]

I heard Chicago is worse than Wakanda.

[ben4372]

Chicago doesn't have much vibrainium.

[Squeeze]

Well holy jumping to conclusions, Batman. That's a hell of a lot of stew you're making from one oyster. And a really offensive stew it is, too.

Here's a follow up. Yeah, you're right. He probably instigated it, doing his job instead of letting the thug do whatever to everyone else. Harshing everyone's buzz. Getting into a physical altercation and everything. Who did he think he was, some glorified bouncer? He got EXACTLY what he deserved, right?

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/crime/security-officer-shot-and-killed-in-lodo-leaves-behind-young-daughter-family

DENVER -- Police are asking for the public's help to find the person who shot and killed a security officer in downtown Denver early Friday morning. Lucardio (Luke) Kroener, 28, was working in the area when the shooting occurred near the intersection of 14th and Market Streets in LoDo.

DPD released the Crime Alert below describing the events that occurred and a description of the suspect involved.

Kroener leaves behind a young daughter, girlfriend and family. His sister, Liz Rado, shared the statement below with Denver7 remembering her brother.

“Luke was an amazing father always playing with his baby girl. He would dance with her in the middle of the street, he would watch My Little Pony with her for hours with her. They loved pizza. They could eat pizza all day long. Emma was his life, he would do anything for her. He would give the world for her. That was her daddy, her daddy Luke. He was getting ready to start in the police academy and worked hard to give the world for his daughter, now she is going to grow up without her daddy. He will miss seeing her grow and Esmeralda is left without a partner in life. My mother is left without a son, we are left without a brother, an uncle, a nephew and we will miss Luke for the rest of our lives.”

There is a GoFundMe page setup to support the family.

I agree 100% with everything you stated Grey. For someone here to believe a law-abiding citizen who was killed while working as a security officer got "exactly what they deserved" is completely disgusting. Regardless of that person's life experience, it is absolutely BS to make a statement like that. Unless you were standing directly next to the incident from start to finish, people should keep statements like that to themselves.

[DireWolf]

I agree 100% with everything you stated Grey. For someone here to believe a law-abiding citizen who was killed while working as a security officer got "exactly what they deserved" is completely disgusting. Regardless of that person's life experience, it is absolutely BS to make a statement like that. Unless you were standing directly next to the incident from start to finish, people should keep statements like that to themselves.I usually try not to ruffle too many feathers, but I'd wager that this one has rubbed me the wrong way as least as much as anybody reading my comment, and as I appear to not be alone in perhaps reading a bit into things, some further clarification may be in order as this is an issue I feel very strongly about:

First, I made a conditional statement based on not only more than a few anecdotal observations, but extremely recent and direct experiences. I even clarified that if it was indeed something that happened while that individual was faithfully and ethically performing their duties in a security-related capacity, that it was a trajedy which most definately was not deserved and they had my fullest sympathies (particularly as I've worked physical security jobs in the past, albeit quite a long time ago).

HOWEVER, there are other possibilities (which we just don't have any background info for, or if so then I must have missed it). Was there video of the incident? Do we know what lead up to it? I'd have to reread the original story, but did this go down at a bar/club/etc., or some other business which was neither open to the public nor associated with the "party scene"? Was the individial in question acting to protect/defend others or defuse an altercation? If there were behavior/actions involved which may have instigated things (and believe me, I've seen some shit that goes way beyond just "crossing the line"), is that cool just because someone is on the clock? Is there anything one can think of which an individual in that type of job/role may do, in/at a public-venue and unprovoked, which might be considered unacceptable or even egregious from the perspective or a reasonable person?


I don't condone what happened to the victim, (even if there was a direct contribution to the incident), and nearly always advocate non-violence except in self defense, but damn if I haven't seen people, including those in some position of authority (whether real or imagined), practically beg to have a chip knocked off their shoulder, and not everyone has the ability or thickness of skin to deal with that in a civilized manner. Having had to swallow my pride and walk away from people/situations like that on more than one occasion, I have no sympathy for those who engage in that type of behavior when their chickens come home to roost. Regardless of who is signing their paychecks....

That may seem a bit callous to some, but there is a big difference between accepting/condoning behavior and not giving a shit if someone gets their comeuppance if deserved. Not going to fully quote Heinlein (something something polite society...something something), but there's something to be considered there.

Given the lack of contextual info, and for the sake of giving the benefit of the doubt, I'll give credit where due and recognize that perhaps I jumped a bit far initially and walk back my original comment regarding this 'specific' event unless/until more info is made available.

That said, while in retrospect I probably should have anticipated how this opinion might be received (given common confirmation-bias) and not said anything on the topic, I fully stand by my stated perspectives and general observations, the particulars of this specific instance notwithstanding.