Legal issue with letting son keep firearms in his room?

[.455_Hunter]

Curious question here- What (if any) Colorado or Federal legal issues would be faced by letting a 13 year old keep firearms in his room? We live in the unincorporated county, and it is perfectly reasonable for him to go out and shoot after school on our property. Looking at the laws, it seems it would meet all requirements:

- possession is occurring with explicit permission of the parents.
- possession is occurring on real property controlled by the parents.
- legal activities are being pursued (target shooting/self defense).

Your thoughts?

It is sad and pathetic that what was common just a generation ago is now necessitating such a question.

[Sawin]

I agree it is sad and pathetic that what was common just a generation ago is now necessitating such a question.... Nevertheless, I remember when I was 13 I know I would have gotten into mischief with my .22 or 20ga by shooting at trees, signs, random birds that flew by, etc... depending on where you live, what neighboring property/risks are within range should be taken into consideration, not just what you "think" the maturity level of your son might allow.

In one hand, responsible kids will rise to the level of responsibility bestowed upon them, but in the other, sometimes they cannot, even if it's no fault of their own... For example, does he have friends that ever come over?

[thedave1164]

Curious question here- What (if any) Colorado or Federal legal issues would be faced by letting a 13 year old keep firearms in his room? We live in the unincorporated county, and it is perfectly reasonable for him to go out and shoot after school on our property. Looking at the laws, it seems it would meet all requirements:

- possession is occurring with explicit permission of the parents.
- possession is occurring on real property controlled by the parents.
- legal activities are being pursued (target shooting/self defense).

Your thoughts?

It is sad and pathetic that what was common just a generation ago is now necessitating such a question.

Seems reasonable to me, but I am not leo or a politician

[Martinjmpr]

Well, when you say "legal" that would seem to include both criminal and civil consequences.

From the criminal perspective, it depends whether it's a handgun or a long gun.

CRS 18-12-108.5 makes it illegal for a minor to be in possession of a handgun unless " on real property under the control of such person's parent, legal guardian, or grandparent and who has the permission of such person's parent or legal guardian to possess a handgun."

I underlined "under the control of" because there could be a question of whether your property is "under your control" when you aren't physically there - some might say that if you aren't on the property, that property is not "under your control" and therefore you cannot permit a minor to possess a handgun there.

There is also a narrow exception carved out for a minor who keeps a handgun with the permission of the parent or guardian solely for the purpose of self defense.

As long as you are physically present on the property at the same time the minor is in possession of the handgun, I see no criminal issue.

There is no Colorado law that prohibits a minor from being in possession of a long gun.

Now, if you're talking about civil law, that's where things get murky. As has already been said, you may trust your kid, but what about his/her friends? Do you know them? Do they know you have firearms? Kids do stupid things, even smart kids. If some other kid finds out your kid has a firearm and then when you're not home, comes over to the house and engages in some kind of horseplay and gets injured or killed (or injures or kills someone else) you could absolutely be liable for negligence.

Remember also that unlike criminal court, where the standard or proof is "beyond reasonable doubt", in a civil suit, the standard of proof is "a preponderance of the evidence" or 50% +1. That's a low standard of proof and if you are being sued by the family of a dead or maimed kid, your chance of avoiding liability is going to be slim if you knowingly allowed your minor child to access your firearms without you physically being present.

Standard disclaimer: This does not constitute legal advice, if you want real legal advice you should consult a lawyer on your own. ;)

[Gman]

Seems reasonable to me, but I'm basing that on how I was at 13. I didn't fear the law, they had limits. I feared the almighty wrath of my parents.

Another way to think about it: He's 2 years away from a learners permit and 3 from a drivers license.

But, I am not a lawyer and did not stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[MarkCO]

I have a 14 and 16 year old, but do not live in a rural area. I would not want a minor to have permission to access or use a firearm except in self defense, if one of the parents was not home. We have kids, including mine, who have driven to the range to shoot Trap league and Rimfire. I wandered 300+ acres with my .22rf as a teen, including where SW Plaza now sits, but I would not let my kids do the same thing now. Both of my kids are far safer and more proficient with firearms than I was in my early teens, just because of the number of times they have shot and competed in matches.

A weapons charge would be a mess. I don't trust other people to not try to hang something on my Kids, or yours, when they did nothing wrong. The risk is just too high for a teen to be out of the house, even on private property, without an adult present.

[BPTactical]

Paralleling Mark on this one, I as well grew up in that part of the world and did the same things, hell I built my first rifle at 13 as a freshman at Heritage High School.
Absolutely no way in this current "environment" I would allow unsupervised possession of a firearm by a juvenile, regardless of the juveniles maturity level.

Is it worth EVERYTHING you have ever worked for and his future? A zealous prosecutor and or civil attorney will own you and him for the rest of your lives.

Unfortunately that is the reality of the world we live in.

[Great-Kazoo]

It's not so much your kids. But your kids friends, if one were to come over when you're not home.

[esaabye]

Hey Mark, what is the rule regarding a 16yo driving to and from a practice facility with a pistol?

[BPTactical]

Hey Mark, what is the rule regarding a 16yo driving to and from a practice facility with a pistol?

I'm not Mark but...


CRS 18-12-108.5 makes it illegal for a minor to be in possession of a handgun unless " on real property under the control of such person's parent, legal guardian, or grandparent and who has the permission of such person's parent or legal guardian to possess a handgun.



I would default to the above.

[MED]

Starting in 8th grade, my son kept his long guns in his room (including his pre13 mags). However, I got him a locking steel gun cabinet for them so they were put away. He did have the key, but I trusted him to never pull them out unless he got my permission first. He's 18 now, and I never had an issue. Having them locked up was to address the issue brought up by other posters; I trusted him but not his friends. I personally wouldn't give a minor permission to use firearms on my property without me present because of the liability involved. However, a lot of the air rifles now perform like a 22lr, which would be a lot less risky.

[newracer]

It's not so much your kids. But your kids friends, if one were to come over when you're not home.

This has always been my concern and that's why all of our firearms are locked up even though I know my kids are responsible and trust them 100%.

[tmckay2]

I wish we lived in a world where of course a kid would have a firearm and you wouldn't have to worry about it but honestly the risks way outweigh the benefits. Even good, responsible kids make stupid mistakes and decisions, ideally I wouldn't put them in a position that increases the chances that mistake could cost a life. As stated you have to start worrying about friends, etc too not just the kid. Mistakes happen. I just wouldn't risk it.

[Skip]

This has turned into a good thread!


I agree it is sad and pathetic that what was common just a generation ago is now necessitating such a question....


I wish we lived in a world where of course a kid would have a firearm and you wouldn't have to worry about it but honestly the risks way outweigh the benefits.

LIKE

I didn't grow up with guns (shocking) but I remember when I went to stay with my cousins and they had a hunting rifle (bolt, don't remember the model, .30-06 I think) hanging over the fireplace in the den, in the open, unlocked. I was probably 11ish. My uncle showed me the mag was loaded, how to shoot it, and told me never to touch it unless an emergency.

At first that was intimidating. But then it was comforting. I knew if anyone came into that house to hurt my extended family, they would be safe, and I now knew I wouldn't be helpless too. Of course they had other guns in the house too but those were locked up!

That uncle later taught me the four rules and was the first to take me pistol shooting.

Different times.

[ChickNorris]

This has turned into a good thread!
LIKE

I didn't grow up with guns (shocking) but I remember when I went to stay with my cousins and they had a hunting rifle (bolt, don't remember the model, .30-06 I think) hanging over the fireplace in the den, in the open, unlocked. I was probably 11ish. My uncle showed me the mag was loaded, how to shoot it, and told me never to touch it unless an emergency.

At first that was intimidating. But then it was comforting. I knew if anyone came into that house to hurt my extended family, they would be safe, and I now knew I wouldn't be helpless too. Of course they had other guns in the house too but those were locked up!

That uncle later taught me the four rules and was the first to take me pistol shooting.

Different times.


Damn skippy right there!

[Squeeze]

I grew up in rural Iowa. It was common for me to have a shotgun and .22 cal rifles in my room when I was about 13. My dad felt very confident after he got a call from my hunter safety instructor saying I was top of the class. A lot of that had to do with my dad teaching me safe firearm handling from day 1. Many times I'd get home from school, I'd load up the .22 rifle and go plinking, or during hunting season I'd take a crack at some pheasants or rabbits. Some Saturdays I'd be gone for hours out hunting with my best friend. We were always safe and responsible. Definitely different times. Miss those days so much.

[UrbanWolf]

Welcome to 21st Century, a time where we cannot trust our kids and friends kids anymore, a time where your neighbors have no common sense.

[beast556]

Welcome to 21st Century, a time where we cannot trust our kids and friends kids anymore, a time where your neighbors have no common sense.

This is very true, sad times we are in.

[BushMasterBoy]

I damn sure don't trust the legal system. Or the school system. On the other hand, if the house has a burglar alarm and a firearms safe, you might be good to go!. At least you can argue you took reasonable measures of firearm safety. Probably put a surveillance system in for good measure. ER visits and law suits are even more expensive. Just my opinion.

[MarkCO]

I'm not Mark but...

CRS 18-12-108.5 makes it illegal for a minor to be in possession of a handgun unless " on real property under the control of such person's parent, legal guardian, or grandparent and who has the permission of such person's parent or legal guardian to possess a handgun

I would default to the above.

Correct. Long guns and handguns have different laws regarding possession. Handguns no, long guns yes. There are forms for minor "use" of a handgun under the supervision of another adult during competition, but there is no exemption for actual possession.

[BREATHER]

I had .22's and 16 gauge in my room when I was 13. My folks trusted me, know I was taught safety and was responsible. Of course that was 50 years ago.