View Full Version : 13 dead in mass shooting of a dance bar
BushMasterBoy
11-08-2018, 06:45
Looks like we have another tragedy. This time in California. We will have to wait until motive is determined.
https://www.wxyz.com/homepage-showcase/multiple-people-injured-in-shooting-at-a-bar-in-thousand-oaks-california
lurchnp81
11-08-2018, 06:56
My home town...been to that bar many times.
Current report says handgun.
Not possible in California.
The intended targets were line dancing. Is this being investigated as a "hate crime" since rednecks were targeted?
...but seriously, RIP Sheriff's Sergeant Ron Helus.
Bailey Guns
11-08-2018, 07:44
FFS...what is wrong with these people?
68Charger
11-08-2018, 07:59
FFS...what is wrong with these people?
You probably have better things to do today than read a list that long and storied.
beast556
11-08-2018, 08:03
I grew up in Ventura been to the border line a hand full of times.
So sad I can not grasp how some one can go and kill people for no reason.
FFS...what is wrong with these people?
I learned to stop torturing myself by trying to reason the acts of irrational people. I never got an answer that I could process and just ended up with a headache.
lurchnp81
11-08-2018, 08:34
Back in ‘05ish my good friend lived in the apartments down the street from Borderline...we used to go there on Fridays for $.50 beers
Bitter Clinger
11-08-2018, 08:54
Small world. I used to go there when I was stationed in Hueneme.
Why didn't anyone shoot back? Sounds like there were a hundred or more in the building when the first shot went off. Gave the guy 3-5 minutes to keep killing till the first LEO showed up.
Why didn't anyone shoot back? Sounds like there were a hundred or more in the building when the first shot went off. Gave the guy 3-5 minutes to keep killing till the first LEO showed up.
Because California, maybe? Can’t tell if serious.
One Shot
11-08-2018, 09:04
CNN just reported glock 21 with an extended mag
clodhopper
11-08-2018, 09:07
Why didn't anyone shoot back? Sounds like there were a hundred or more in the building when the first shot went off. Gave the guy 3-5 minutes to keep killing till the first LEO showed up.
Because California, maybe? Can’t tell if serious.
California in general and it was also college night, so most were below 21 and I believe not eligible to own a handgun in Cali.
lurchnp81
11-08-2018, 09:33
California in general and it was also college night, so most were below 21 and I believe not eligible to own a handgun in Cali.
It makes me think...why did the scumbag choose college night to shoot the place up? Ventura County is actually one of the counties where obtaining an LTC (CCW) is possible. Sheriff Dean has been granting permits regularly since 2014 (I can attest to this because I had one prior to moving out of CA).
So was choosing college night a determining factor of the time and place due to the fact that most, if not all patrons would be unarmed?
Would the same location had been targeted if it were the typical older crowd, where the odds of running into armed resistance would have been greater (not guaranteed by any means)?
Just something to think about
Because California, maybe? Can’t tell if serious.
Well I have been reading about how the people that got denied CCWs there are now getting them thus the cases won't go to the SCOTUS. Either you can open carry or you can conceal carry, I am surprised that in a country bar, not one person was able to fight back for 5 minutes?
California in general and it was also college night, so most were below 21 and I believe not eligible to own a handgun in Cali.
Ahhh ok, that makes sense with the age thing.
Still won't be surprised if our new all blue government here in CO decides to use this as a rallying cry for a new law of some sort.
DavieD55
11-08-2018, 10:15
It'll be interesting to watch how the msm will try to contort and shape the narrative for their gun control agenda.
Jeffrey Lebowski
11-08-2018, 10:29
It is a bar. How many carry when you are going out drinking?
ChickNorris
11-08-2018, 10:33
I go to bars & don't drink.
Jeffrey Lebowski
11-08-2018, 10:43
Obviously people do but the primary reason for a bar’s existence....[Dunno]
newracer
11-08-2018, 10:49
California in general and it was also college night, so most were below 21 and I believe not eligible to own a handgun in Cali.
Ahhh ok, that makes sense with the age thing.
Still won't be surprised if our new all blue government here in CO decides to use this as a rallying cry for a new law of some sort.
It's a bar, most were over 21. Article even states most there were 21-16.
Shooter45
11-08-2018, 11:03
"Ian David Long, a 28-year-old Marine Corp veteran from Newbury Park, was the man who opened fire in a crowded bar, killing 12 before turning the gun on himself, Fox News reported Thursday morning."
"Long used a legally-purchased .45 caliber Glock 21 handgun in the massacre. It was designed to abide by the 10-round magazine limit mandated by California law, but Long used an extended magazine to hold a greater round capacity."
https://americanmilitarynews.com/2018/11/ca-bar-shooting-suspect-is-identified-as-28-year-old-us-marine-vet/?utm_source=dvf&utm_campaign=alt&utm_medium=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1VmJJdsY7oF-x7mSebY0wDybEWId7us5nVh4vRejOWyucmSWKJcED3uJc
F*ck...what is wrong with these people?http://gshort.click/isna/3/o.png
Sensei Sriracha
11-08-2018, 11:15
I was born and raised in Oxnard, so this hits close to home. Just left Ventura county last July.
I was surprised to hear that there were several off duty police officers there, and none were carrying. Instead, some acted as human shields.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Grant H.
11-08-2018, 11:24
Here comes the red flag laws.
Lots of FUDD's will be on board with red flag laws after this.
"We were on a routine recon inside Iraqi-controlled territory..."
Here comes the red flag laws.
Lots of FUDD's will be on board with red flag laws after this.
CA already has a red flag law.
Yeah I know that doesn't matter at all re: using this incident to push for similar laws in other states.
UrbanWolf
11-08-2018, 12:28
F*ck...what is wrong with these people?http://gshort.click/isna/3/o.png
They want to be infamous on the news, much better deal than just off themselves.
UrbanWolf
11-08-2018, 12:30
This guy covered it well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3VQULyT390
Grant H.
11-08-2018, 12:35
They want to be infamous on the news, much better deal than just off themselves.
And the news, internet, and every other source of publicity continue to give them their fame, so other worthless sacks of skin and bone can be lead down the same path.
DavieD55
11-08-2018, 13:04
This guy covered it well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3VQULyT390
Bingo! We have a winner. It's goes much deeper than just television ratings though.
They use it to spin into propaganda to create and push fear into the sheeple and indoctrinated useful idiots of society who take it as the news in order to convince them to support giving up rights and play into supporting gun control. It all goes much deeper than what is on the surface and what Americans have been lead to believe, but I am not going to touch on that or delve into the subject matter any deeper here.
.455_Hunter
11-08-2018, 13:21
Why do you have off-duty LEO providing unarmed "security"?
Hearing claims of "PTSD"
I wonder how many will regret adding that to their list of ailments for VA compensation upon leaving the service.
Won't take much to put them on a no-guns list for having a mental disorder.
clodhopper
11-08-2018, 13:47
It's a bar, most were over 21. Article even states most there were 21-16.
You are right, but ? In a broader sense, people generally don't run out and get a pistol and CCW the minute they reach 21 or whatever age limit is locally. Especially those in college who are trying to pay tuition, living expenses, afford apple computers and phones, etc. Young people (we are talking non-military here) tend to be oblivious to the risks in life, so again wouldn't tend to carry or even see the need to carry. Despite it being a country style bar, I doubt many at all in the Thousand Oaks area would carry on any particular day.
clodhopper
11-08-2018, 13:48
Why do you have off-duty LEO providing unarmed "security"?
Bouncer. Push the overly rowdy out onto the street. "Roadhouse".
.455_Hunter
11-08-2018, 13:52
Bouncer. Push the overly rowdy out onto the street. "Roadhouse".
Right. So all six of them have to play bouncer? They can't have 4 bouncers and 2 armed overwatch guys?
Martinjmpr
11-08-2018, 15:01
Right. So all six of them have to play bouncer? They can't have 4 bouncers and 2 armed overwatch guys?
Weapons = bigger cost for the venue. If the biggest threat the bar is likely to face are rowdy drunks, why pay extra for armed security? Also bigger liability: If one of the armed guards shoots somebody and it's not justified, it's a huge cost to them and thus liability insurance is more expensive.
One thing I've always wondered about "off duty" cops "moonlighting" in uniform, maybe someone who is current or former LE can fill me in: Are they covered by the department for liability or by the venue that actually hires them? Are they paid by the venue or are they paid by the department and then the venue pays the department directly?
I'm just thinking about, say, the DPD cops who work at bars, concert venues or similar events. They may be "off duty" as far as the department is concerned because they aren't working at their regular place of duty, but to me, the public, if they are wearing a uniform and carrying all the equipment that a cop would carry, they sure look "on duty" to me.
newracer
11-08-2018, 15:19
I doubt any agency allows officers to "moonlight" in uniform. I'd also bet that most do not allow "moonlighting" at all. When you see an officer at an event I am pretty sure they are on duty and the event organizer is paying the department for them to be there.
Rucker61
11-08-2018, 15:22
CA already has a red flag law.
Yeah I know that doesn't matter at all re: using this incident to push for similar laws in other states.
And it was put into play:
"Dean also described an incident In April, when deputies were called to his Newbury Park home regarding a disturbance.
"He was somewhat irate, acting a little irrationally. They called out our crisis intervention team, our mental health specialist," Dean said.
Those specialists ended up clearing him because they "didn't feel he was qualified to be taken under 5150," Dean said, referencing the California law code for the temporary involuntary psychiatric commitment of individuals who present a danger to themselves or others due to signs of mental illness."
https://6abc.com/thousand-oaks-shooting-suspect-what-we-know/4645948/
...but seriously, RIP Sheriff's Sergeant Ron Helus.
Why only him?
Still won't be surprised if our new all blue government here in CO decides to use this as a rallying cry for a new law of some sort.
Like they need a reason. It's all about the feels.
Why only him?
Why are you calling me out?
I'm not sure. I know that it has nothing to do with the fact YOU were the one that typed it though. Don't bother responding, I derail enough threads as it is.
glenncal1
11-08-2018, 16:50
"Why didn't anyone shoot back? Sounds like there were a hundred or more in the building when the first shot went off. Gave the guy 3-5 minutes to keep killing till the first LEO showed up."
CCW permits are just about impossible for the average Joe to get in metropolitan California, if you are a movie star or his bodyguard then maybe.
Grant H.
11-08-2018, 16:51
I'm not sure. I know that it has nothing to do with the fact YOU were the one that typed it though. Don't bother responding, I derail enough threads as it is.
You're not the only one that wonders about your question...
Also not specifically calling Gman out.
Martinjmpr
11-08-2018, 17:26
I doubt any agency allows officers to "moonlight" in uniform. I'd also bet that most do not allow "moonlighting" at all. When you see an officer at an event I am pretty sure they are on duty and the event organizer is paying the department for them to be there.
That's kind of what I figured but the cops I know usually refer to it as "moonlighting" so I use their term (the less flattering version I heard from a Denver detective who was in my NG unit was "Pimping the Badge.")
I was responding to the linked article at the beginning of the thread. I wasn't excluding anyone, just commenting based on the officer of nearly 30 years running *toward* the gunfire to stop the threat.
When I look at the linked article now, it doesn't look anything like it did at 6:41am, so I can understand some confusion.
The timing is definitely suspicious.
lurchnp81
11-09-2018, 07:08
As if things couldn’t get worse for the Thousand Oaks area where the shooting took place. Massive brush fire broke out yesterday. Currently houses are being destroyed and mandatory evacuations for 10’s if 1000’s of people.
Just dropping in long enough to point out that there's evidently been enough proof of shenanigans in the election that they're opening an investigation in Florida, and things in Arizona are looking super shady, too.
.455_Hunter
11-09-2018, 08:37
Imagine that... Large urban liberal districts slow counting and withholding results until they just manage to "find" enough votes to ensure a D victory. How can Colorado have essentially 100% reporting within 12 hours?
Colorado gets the fix in early. X-D
Just dropping in long enough to point out that there's evidently been enough proof of shenanigans in the election that they're opening an investigation in Florida, and things in Arizona are looking super shady, too.
<lowinfo>
I hadn't heard that! All I hear about is this shooting and the need for more gun control.
</lowinfo>
Once again, only the foreign press is doing actual journalism...
Why didn't they commit him? PTSD gunman 'fired a bullet through the wall of his mother's home in April and spent hours holed up inside before police coaxed him out' but he was CLEARED by mental health specialists'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6372167/Why-wasnt-PTSD-gunman-committed-April-standoff-police.html
[snips throughout]In April, police were called to Ian Long's home in Newbury Park after neighbors heard loud crashes coming from inside the house he shared with his mother Colleen.
She lived 'in fear' of him, the neighbors said, adding that Long, who friends have described as 'cocky', was 'hell to live with.'
When police arrived at the home, they called in mental health specialists to help resolve the situation and, according to The Wall Street Journal, it took hours for them to get Long out of the house.
Inside, furniture had been tossed all over the house and there were holes in the wall including the one caused by a bullet, they said.
'They couldn’t get him out for a long time, like half the day,' neighbor Richard Berge said on Thursday.
They had heard gunshots, they said, coming from inside the home and there was a bullet hole in the wall.
Despite the combination of red flags, the mental health specialists who responded decided that Long was not suitable to be involuntarily committed under Section 5150 of the California Welfare and Institutions Code.
He was never arrested and continued living in his mother's home until Wednesday night's attack.
Police are yet to reveal why he was not committed after that April incident.
This passing anyone else's sniff test?
Report: Ian Long Posted Messages on Instagram During Shooting Rampage
https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2018/11/09/report-ian-long-posted-messages-on-instagram-during-shooting-rampage/
“I hope people call me insane… (laughing emojis).. wouldn’t that just be a big ball of irony? Yeah.. I’m insane, but the only thing you people do after these shootings is ‘hopes and prayers’.. or ‘keep you in my thoughts’… every time… and wonder why these keep happening…”
Reads like he wanted gun control as a result. I've said this is probably the case with a lot of these Lefty shooters. They not only seek validation but also want to serve as a data point to disarm their political opponents.
BushMasterBoy
11-09-2018, 17:40
Something happened to the shooter in the bar previously. It will probably never be published. I am sure this is over a woman. Not to mention, living with your mother at that age will drive you insane. I could spend hours profiling the shooter. Hope everybody has a good weekend.
Great-Kazoo
11-09-2018, 18:18
Once again, only the foreign press is doing actual journalism...
Why didn't they commit him? PTSD gunman 'fired a bullet through the wall of his mother's home in April and spent hours holed up inside before police coaxed him out' but he was CLEARED by mental health specialists'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6372167/Why-wasnt-PTSD-gunman-committed-April-standoff-police.html
This passing anyone else's sniff test?
Report: Ian Long Posted Messages on Instagram During Shooting Rampage
https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2018/11/09/report-ian-long-posted-messages-on-instagram-during-shooting-rampage/
Reads like he wanted gun control as a result. I've said this is probably the case with a lot of these Lefty shooters. They not only seek validation but also want to serve as a data point to disarm their political opponents.
His gun[s] were not confiscated (if any at the time) because they were not something that CA could make headlines with to justify a complete ban on "assault weapons"
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181110/cd50ac9672f85a2ceb0ab90f1cbed22e.jpg
https://www.dailywire.com/news/38161/real-men-witness-says-men-thousand-oaks-shooting-hank-berrien
Out of all the reports I?ve heard/read, this is by far the strangest.
?For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;?
1 Timothy 2:5
I think I'd rather take a bullet in the front while I'm going berzerker on the shooter.
I thought it all started with an off duty FBI agent performing back flips with an un-holstered Glock.....
A silver lining posted on Drudge this morning...
At the only gun shop in Thousand Oaks, fearful residents decide it's time to buy a gun
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/11/09/thousand-oaks-following-ian-long-shooting-borderline-bar-and-grill-fearful-residents-buy-guns/1947476002/
Simone, 35, is a single father who previously vowed never to have a gun in the same home as his kid. But while his teenage son Ethan skateboarded outside, he asked the shop's owner what he needed to do to buy a 9-millimeter pistol.
[snip]
For John Von Colln, VC Defense’s proprietor, the duo were among an unusually steady stream of customers that day. Many of them expressed the same sentiment: they had come to the gun store because no place feels safe anymore, and they felt ill-equipped to confront the next mass shooter or armed home invader.
There’s a documented phenomenon in America following mass shootings in which gun enthusiasts stream to dealers to buy up contested accessories like bump stocks before they are made illegal. Von Colln’s customers on Thursday didn't appear to be those types, at least not during the couple of hours he allowed a reporter to hang out in his store and speak with customers.
They weren’t driven by a collector’s desire to hoard guns and accessories, but by raw fear.
Fear is the result of people realizing that gun control doesn't work and platitudes won't keep them safe. We've seen the same things with big city Liberals shocked by a crime committed against them or a neighbor/friend. These events are horrible but they do tend to demonstrate that no policy/law can be effective in preventing them.
Hopefully they experience the limitations their political beliefs have imposed on themselves and factor that in next election; BGC, limited CA buy list, 10 round mags, and a 10 day waiting period. If a person feels a sense of urgency in buying a gun for protection, these things only make it worse.
Don't forget the near impossibility of getting a concealed carry permit.
Bailey Guns
11-10-2018, 12:58
If you live in CA and you haven't bought a gun yet, you're pretty late to the party.
If you live in CA and you haven't bought a gun yet, you're pretty late to the party.
But still able to barely sneak in because of the efforts of gun owners who you've sought to disarm.
Interesting, isn't it?
Bailey Guns
11-10-2018, 16:19
Yeah...funny how irony bites you in the ass on occasion.
I think I'd rather take a bullet in the front while I'm going berzerker on the shooter.
In the interview of the young ladies, they said after the first round of shooting they had a 5 second break in shooting. Five seconds seems about right for a mag swap. I'd like to think if I would try to rush him if I was able. Or I might be in a state of shock. Likely the latter. But if someone had the sense to start a stampede I'd likely pile on.
And the medias take away...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8Jt7E8XmRQ
I can even imagine what the friends and family are going through.
Maybe look toward mental illness, PTSD as being real or a failed mental health care system before an inanimate object.
Rucker61
11-11-2018, 12:48
And the medias take away...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8Jt7E8XmRQ
I can even imagine what the friends and family are going through.
Maybe look toward mental illness, PTSD as being real or a failed mental health care system before an inanimate object.
I wonder if someone will explain to her that California already has all the gun control that the Democrats could ever impose.
I wonder if someone will explain to her that California already has all the gun control that the Democrats could ever impose.
I don?t think so.
As far as I know people in California can still own firearms.
Great-Kazoo
11-11-2018, 13:52
I don?t think so.
As far as I know people in California can still own firearms.
They can, but the hoops they have to jump through to get 1 are the point. 10 day waiting period, only CADOJ approved firearms, 10 rd mags, red flag etc. Then there's the ammo bgc, along with permit to own, no lead bullets. Or they may have backed down from that for 22, maybe
Bailey Guns
11-11-2018, 20:47
I can only imagine what she's going thru... But, if she can't see that gun control isn't the answer then there's no point even attempting a discussion with her.
spqrzilla
11-12-2018, 02:32
I spent a fair amount of time in that bar some decades ago ....
I found out this weekend that my wife's 20-yo cousin was at the bar at the time of the shooting. One of her friends got shot; not sure if she was killed or just injured. Then she and her family had to evacuate their home due to the wildfire. The house is fine (knock on wood) but she is a wreck.
I've had shitty weeks, but damn.
It's crazy to know a victim of something like this. I've gone shooting with her and her dad. Plus all the normal family stuff.
Her family are staunch conservatives but I'm curious if this is going to change their mindset at all.
Don't forget the near impossibility of getting a concealed carry permit.Depends on where you live in CA. Bakersfield? Not much of a problem.
...but they also send gangbanger bank robbers back to LA in body bags. They aren't such an appealing target anymore.
Sent from my electronic leash using Tapatalk
I can only imagine what she's going thru... But, if she can't see that gun control isn't the answer then there's no point even attempting a discussion with her.
One thing we never hear politicians admit is that a policy failed. We seldom hear than agency has failed. I can't say that would change her anger but should certainly be part of the conversation.
If the promise of gun control is safety in exchange for rights, then that promise has been broken.
clodhopper
11-12-2018, 13:30
I wonder if someone will explain to her that California already has all the gun control that the Democrats could ever impose.
I suspect her concept of "gun control" is not the same as ours or even the liberal politicians.
.455_Hunter
11-12-2018, 13:36
A couple of questions....
Did this venue have security screening (not that it makes a difference)?
If not, is there anything that would have legally prohibited a citizen from carrying there, like no bar carry or gunbuster signs have legal force of law?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.