"What Did We Learn From Ft Hood?"

[Bailey Guns]

What Did We Learn From Ft Hood?: http://www.examiner.com/x-8434-Anchorage-Libertarian-Examiner~y2009m11d9-What-did-we-learn-from-Fort-Hood (http://www.examiner.com/x-8434-Anchorage-Libertarian-Examiner~y2009m11d9-What-did-we-learn-from-Fort-Hood)

This is a very thought-provoking article about why we should NOT be so quick to jump on the "Hasan is a terrorist" bandwagon. I have to admit, I'd never thought of it from this perspective and it's changed the way I view this incident now.

This may fall under the "be careful what you wish for...you just might get it" category.

[Irving]

This article is a breath of fresh air. God bless people who are more articulate than I am.

[Bailey Guns]

This article is a breath of fresh air. God bless people who are more articulate than I am.

I feel the same way. That's why I like to read so much. Some of these Examiner.com guys are very good.

[sniper7]

we still learned something. If the feds have material on someone that is emailing known terrorists/groups they need to have a little chat with that person.

[jim02]

Hassan is not a terriost, he is a solider.
We learned the media and appoligists are wrong again, Islam extremists do exist and they are in a WAR with us and in war the enemies actions are not called terrorism, they are an act of war. A battle, fight, skirmish, ambush, attack, its all part of war.

Hassan is a solider fighting for the other side, and they just so happen to have many soliders that make cowardly attacks of unarmed targets,
military or not.
They have the belief that death is better then life and the means at which they die elevates their status in death.

As long as we allow our political correctness to be taken to the extreme's that we have, our enemies will exploit it for their gain as any good opponet would.

To wrap it up, did we as a whole learn anything, I doubt it.

[DD977GM2]

He is a terrorist and blame the entire religion also. I have no sympathy for his or any muslims actions [Rant1]

[Batteriesnare]

Could someone please explain this to me, as I do not have any military experience:

Why does the government not allow soldiers to carry weapons on base? Surely everyone there has had firearms training!

I would hope we could learn that an armed military on base would prevent such incidents, but I may be wrong. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Elhuero]

Could someone please explain this to me, as I do not have any military experience:

Why does the government not allow soldiers to carry weapons on base? Surely everyone there has had firearms training!

I would hope we could learn that an armed military on base would prevent such incidents, but I may be wrong. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


The less the number of firearms floating around on post, the less chance for someone to get shot.

[SA Friday]

There's a liability factor in possible accidental shootings, and also a liability in lost weapons.

Also, they wouldn't be able to legally carry off the base, so every morning and afternoon, you would tie up the entire base for issue and turn-in of weapons and ammo. It would be a huge cluster.

In war zones, the rules change. Depending on the location and duty title, you may sleep with that bad boy, but there isn't an 'off-base' to go home to either.

[jim02]

Could someone please explain this to me, as I do not have any military experience:

Why does the government not allow soldiers to carry weapons on base? Surely everyone there has had firearms training!

I would hope we could learn that an armed military on base would prevent such incidents, but I may be wrong. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


What the others said as far as gov weapons are concerned. As for civi/private weapons, I will say they dont trust us with our private weapons on base. I am sure they think they have a good excuse for it.
When my father was in back in the late 60 early 70's they were allowed to keep their own weapons in their rooms.
When I was in 91-96, we had to turn ours in at the base armory or store them off base.

[theGinsue]

All, I don't know how legit this is, but after reading it, I believe it's for real.




Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 10:05 AM
Subject: What happened

Since I don't know when I'll sleep (it's 4 am now) I'll write what happened (the abbreviated version.....the long one is already part of the investigation with more to come).

I'll not write about any part of the investigation that I've learned about since (as a witness I know more than I should since inevitably my JAG brothers and sisters are deeply involved in the investigation).

Don't assume that most of the current media accounts are very accurate. They're not. They'll improve with time. Only those of us who were there really know what went down. But as they collate our statements they'll get it right.

I did my SRP last week (Soldier Readiness Processing) but you're supposed to come back a week later to have them look at the smallpox vaccination site (it's this big itchy growth on your shoulder). I am probably alive because I pulled a ---------- and entered the wrong building first (the main SRP building). The Medical SRP building is off to the side. Realizing my mistake I left the main building and walked down the sidewalk to the medical SRP building.

As I'm walking up to it the gunshots start. Slow and methodical. But continuous. Two ambulatory wounded came out. Then two soldiers dragging a third who was covered in blood. Hearing the shots but not seeing the shooter, along with a couple other soldiers I stood in the street and yelled at everyone who came running that it was clear but to "RUN!" I kept motioning people fast. About 6-10 minutes later (the shooting continuous), two cops ran up, one male, one female. We pointed in the direction of the shots.

They headed that way (the medical SRP building was about 50 meters away). Then a lot more gunfire. A couple minutes later a balding man in ACU's came around the building carrying a pistol and holding it tactically. He started shooting at us and we all dived back to the cars behind us. I don't think he hit the couple other guys who were there. I did see the bullet holes later in the cars. First I went behind a tire and then looked under the body of the car. I've been trained how to respond to gunfire...but with my own weapon.

To have no weapon I don't know how to explain what that felt like. I hadn't run away and stayed because I had thought about the consequences or anything like that. I wasn't thinking anything through. Please understand, there was no intention. I was just staying there because I didn't think about running. It never occurred to me that he might shoot me. Until he started shooting in my direction and I realized I was unarmed.

Then the female cop comes around the corner. He shoots her. (According to the news accounts she got a round into him. I believe it, I just didn't see it. He didn't go down.) She goes down. He starts reloading. He's fiddling with his mags. Weirdly, he hasn't dropped the one that was in his weapon. He's holding the fresh one and the old one (you do that on the range when time is not of the essence but in combat you would just let the old mag go).

I see the male cop around the left corner of the building. I'm about 15-20 meters from the shooter.) I yell at the cop, "He's reloading, he's reloading. Shoot him! Shoot him! You have to understand, everything was quiet at this point. The cop appears to hear me and comes around the corner and shoots the shooter. He goes down. The cop kicks his weapon farther away. I sprint up to the downed female cop. Another captain (I think he was with me behind the cars) comes up as well. She's bleeding profusely out of her thigh. We take our belts off and tourniquet her just like we've been trained (I hope we did it right...we didn't have any CLS (combat lifesaver) bags with their awesome tourniquets on us, so we worked with what we had).

Meanwhile, in the most bizarre moment of the day, a photographer was standing over us taking pictures. I suppose I'll be seeing those tomorrow. Then a soldier came up and identified himself as a medic. I then realized her weapon was lying there unsecured (and on "fire"). I stood over it and when I saw a cop yelled for him to come over and secure her weapon (I would have done so but I was worried someone would mistake me for a bad guy). I then went over to the shooter. He was unconscious. A Lt Colonel was there and had secured his primary weapon for the time being. He also had a revolver.

I couldn't believe he was one of ours. I didn't want to believe it. Then I saw his name and rank and realized this wasn't just some specialist with mental issues. At this point there was a guy there from CID and I asked him if he knew he was the shooter and had him secured. He said he did.

I then went over the slaughterhouse, the medical SRP building. No human should ever have to see what that looked like. And I won't tell you. Just believe me. Please. There was nothing to be done there. Someone then said there was someone critically wounded around the corner. I ran around (while seeing this floor to ceiling window that someone had jumped through movie-style) and saw a large African-American soldier lying on his back with two or three soldiers attending. I ran up and identified two entrance wounds on the right side of his stomach, one exit wound on the left side and one head wound. He was not bleeding externally from the stomach wounds (though almost certainly internally) but was bleeding from the head wound. A soldier was using a shirt to try and stop the head bleeding.

He was conscious so I began talking to him to keep him so. He was 42, from North Carolina, he was named something Jr., his son was named something III and he had a daughter as well. His children lived with him. He was divorced. I told him the blubber on his stomach saved his life. He smiled. a young soldier in civvies showed up and identified himself as a combat medic. We debated whether to put him on the back of a pickup truck. A doctor (well, an audiologist) showed up and said you can't move him, he has a head wound. We finally sat tight.

I went back to the slaughterhouse. They weren't letting anyone in there. Not even medics. finally, after about 45 minutes had elapsed some cops showed up in tactical vests. someone said the TBI building was unsecured. They headed into there. All of a sudden a couple more shots were fired. People shouted there was a second shooter! A half hour later the SWAT showed up. there was no second shooter. that had been an impetuous cop apparently. But that confused things for a while. Meanwhile, I went back to the shooter. The female cop had been taken away. a medic was pumping plasma into the shooter. I'm not proud of this but I went up to her and said "This is the shooter, is there anyone else who needs attention? Do them first.”

She indicated everyone else living was attended to. I still hadn't seen any EMTs or ambulances. I had so much blood on me that people kept asking me if I was ok. but that was all other people's blood. Eventually (an hour and a half to two hours after the shootings) they started landing choppers. They took out the big African-American guy and the shooter. I guess the ambulatory wounded were all at the SRP building. Everyone else in my area was dead.

I suppose the emergency responders were told there were multiple shooters. I heard that was the delay with the choppers (they were all civilian helicopters). they needed a secure LZ. but other than the initial cops who did everything right, I didn’t see a lot of them for a while.

I did see many a soldier rush out to help their fellows/sisters. There was one female soldier, I don’t know her name or rank but I would recognize her anywhere, who was everywhere helping people. a couple people, mainly civilians, were hysterical, but only a couple. One civilian freaked out when I tried to comfort her when she saw my uniform. I guess she had seen the shooter up close. A lot of soldiers were rushing out to help even when we thought there was another gunman out there.

This Army is not broken no matter what the pundits say. not the Army I saw. And then they kept me for a long time to come. Oh, and perhaps the most surreal thing, at 1500 (the end of the workday on Thursdays) when the bugle sounded we all came to attention and saluted the flag. In the middle of it all. this is what I saw.

It can't have been real. but this is my small corner of what happened.

[BigBear]

Good read. To put to rest my doubts I would like to see name and rank of witness to collaborate with military records... In any case, our military is NOT broken, although it is teetering on the edge. Allowing enlistement of ex-cons was the first eye bruiser and many more have come since the 90's.

Fireamrs are not allowed in the hands of service men and women on a military base. There are several reasons for that. Higherups think there is no need to carry since we are in America and there is no war on our shores. (Oh the feelings that tear at my chest upon those words..) Second, insurance liability. Third, lack of certain training (some people fire in BASIC and that's it for their whole career). Fourth, the PC'ness of it. Fifth, it's governement property and can't be taken off base without signed orders. Sixth, etc... it can go on for a while.

It was a tragic accident that probably could've been averted had someone acted. However, we were too afraid of being sued or accused of being intolerant or (insert own vocabulary here). We are Americans, not Black/African Americans, Mexican Americans, or even European Americans. You took the oath of the United States. You are American without any disclosure. Being PC has gotten this country into some serious trouble. If you think life would be better back in your own country, go back to it! Just because you have the freedoms to express views that you hold dear, doesn't mean I don't have the freedom to shove my awef;lkjhadgf'; up your awdf;hasdfj... that's my freedom.

Okay, I'm getting mad... time to stop.

All I can say is grow two heads and CYA.

[Bailey Guns]

I think what this guy did was more than a "tragic accident".

I'm pretty sure it was well planned and intentional. As to whether or not it could have been prevented? Maybe. On the other hand, he could have done something else just as bad if he hadn't had a gun.

[theGinsue]

Good read. To put to rest my doubts I would like to see name and rank of witness to collaborate with military records...

Actually, the article did have the writers name and some personal information attached, but I chose to remove it for posting.

[BigBear]

ah, rgr. Good call. That didn't cross my mind. I stand corrected.

[theGinsue]

See, I'm not as dumb as I look. No one's as dumb as I look!
[Coffee]

[Hoosier]

It sucks he used that FN Five-seveN, they're already calling it "cop killer" because the media is [Rant2]'ing dumb.

[Bailey Guns]

Yeah...the media and anti-gun types started calling it that from the moment it was introduced.

And for good reason. We all know a "normal" gun can't kill a cop.

[sniper7]

I think what this guy did was more than a "tragic accident".

I'm pretty sure it was well planned and intentional. As to whether or not it could have been prevented? Maybe. On the other hand, he could have done something else just as bad if he hadn't had a gun.


whose to say he hasn't until every one of his patients have been evaluated, had proper exams and get the help the need.
Hasan could have pumped their heads full of even more bullshit.[Rant2]

[sniper7]

It sucks he used that FN Five-seveN, they're already calling it "cop killer" because the media is [Rant2]'ing dumb.


the media would call any gun a "cop killer" at this point...it could have been a water gun or a slingshot and they would have called it a full auto or a deadly handgun.