View Full Version : Confused by CO Laws
MrWhiteRabbit
11-27-2018, 12:45
I?m moving to CO with a considerable collection in the next month or two. Is there anywhere that summarizes applicable laws that I can read up on? I?ve searched the forums and found the text of some proposed laws here (thanks for that!), but there?s no good way to see which got enacted. To make matters more complicated, my wife lives in Denver county (I used this address for my CO DL and CCW) and I?ll be buying and owner-occupying a place, likely in Aurora, once I get there around the first of the year.
I am in no way implying I own any of the following, but curious to know the laws regarding:
AR-15-style rifles
large-caliber (.50 BMG) rifles
high-capacity magazines (rifle, pistol, and believe it or not -shotgun)
bump stock/binary trigger
As example scenarios,
- I?ll be living with her as we look for that property in Aurora and the collection will be in storage somewhere. If the collection includes the items above, does that storage need to be outside Denver county?
- From the text of one of the proposed laws posted here, it looked like Denver residents are prohibited from owning some of the above. Is ?resident? defined as ?where my DL says I live? or ?the address where I lay my head at night?? In short, do I need to hurry up and find an address outside of Denver to change my DL/CCW to?
You'll be fine. People don't quite freak out about guns out here as bad as they might back East. No one will be searching your property or anything. As much as people bitch about Denver, I don't know anyone that changes their routine or what they own to work around any city specific laws.
A good start here:
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/colorado.pdf
https://law.justia.com/codes/colorado/2017/title-18/article-12/
https://library.municode.com/co/denver/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TITIIREMUCO_CH38OFMIPR_A RTIVOFAGPUORSA_DIV2WEMI_S38-130ASWE
Keep in mind, this list is not all inclusive. I'm not an attorney, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
I can get you in touch with someone who does the concealed weapons training classes, and will give you the run down on current CO firearms laws when you move here; just PM me if you are interested. CCW is shall issue in CO. You picked a bad time to move to CO; it will be full commiefornia in the next few years. This state gave full control to an anti-gun owner governor and legislature in the last election. There is a very anti gun agenda at play in CO this next legislative session.
Currently CO is a class II/III state if you have NFA items; there are no registrations, and there are no restrictions on so-called assault weapons or 50BMG at the state level. There are no privates sales allowed; all sales must go through an FFL. There is a magazine limit of 15rds that is mostly unenforced (there is a grandfather clause). Several municipalities have local ordinance restrictions. Denver does have a so-called assault weapons ban. Denver, Boulder, Adams, and Arapahoe are unfriendly counties for gun owners. If you can, stay out of those; which includes Aurora. Good Luck!
Why is Adams unfriendly to guns?
Why is Adams unfriendly to guns?
Wondering the same about Arapahoe.
ChickNorris
11-27-2018, 15:24
I live in Denver. Not questioning the sentiment but insofar I've no firsthand issues. I can even use my addy for a tax stamp & even easier since CLEO permission isn't a current requirement. Technically where I keep items could be a hassle if someone was going to be picky.
Wondering the same about Arapahoe.
New Arapahoe County Sheriff Tyler Brown (D)
Why is Adams unfriendly to guns?
Adams county's pro 2a sheriff Michael McIntosh was just voted out of office. The politics in Adams are going far left, and will resemble Denver soon. They just voted in a batch of new tax increases. You could probably rent there for awhile, but I sure wouldn't buy a house there nor would I trust the new sheriff in the rural parts of Adams. Adams and Arapahoe are moving left rapidly; they are not as hostile as Denver and Boulder, but it's moving in that direction. I definitely want to be in a favorable law enforcement jurisdiction when this state goes red flag, which will happen in the next two years.
So nothing concrete at this point. I've never involved the sheriff in any of my gun related activities.
BPTactical
11-27-2018, 18:35
As a native to this state I can say an absolute:
This state is fucked.
hurley842002
11-27-2018, 19:35
So nothing concrete at this point. I've never involved the sheriff in any of my gun related activities.If you have a CCW, you have involved the Sheriff, but otherwise I agree with you, nothing concrete.
hurley842002
11-27-2018, 19:35
As a native to this state I can say an absolute:
This state is fucked.Still no like button.
If you have a CCW, you have involved the Sheriff, but otherwise I agree with you, nothing concrete.
Sure, but it's a shall issue State so it didn't matter. It was also the good sheriff though too.
Will1776
11-27-2018, 20:17
You can still buy ARs in Denver, but the city has a stricter mag limit where 15+ magazines are not grandfathered
MrWhiteRabbit
11-27-2018, 20:18
A good start here:
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/colorado.pdf
https://law.justia.com/codes/colorado/2017/title-18/article-12/
https://library.municode.com/co/denver/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TITIIREMUCO_CH38OFMIPR_A RTIVOFAGPUORSA_DIV2WEMI_S38-130ASWE
Keep in mind, this list is not all inclusive. I'm not an attorney, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
*Boom!* Great links, I've got a lot of reading ahead of me now. Thanks!
MrWhiteRabbit
11-27-2018, 20:19
I live in Denver. Not questioning the sentiment but insofar I've no firsthand issues. I can even use my addy for a tax stamp & even easier since CLEO permission isn't a current requirement. Technically where I keep items could be a hassle if someone was going to be picky.
This is good to know. I'm considering expanding the tax stamp side of my collection and I'm glad to see a Denver address doesn't prohibit that.
MrWhiteRabbit
11-27-2018, 20:26
You can still buy ARs in Denver, but the city has a stricter mag limit where 15+ magazines are not grandfathered
Basic ARs seem to be allowed, but if they are hypothetically, possibly, may be outfitted with bump stocks (possibly binary triggers, too), it looks like those are a no-go. (source: https://library.municode.com/co/denver/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TITIIREMUCO_CH38OFMIPR_A RTIVOFAGPUORSA_DIV2WEMI_S38-130ASWE Thanks, TFOGGER)
If you have a trust, you just notify the attorney general or whomever and you're good to go.
I usually refer to opencarry.org when I travel, but I'm not sure how up to date their stuff is.
theGinsue
11-27-2018, 20:56
On your way across country, DO NOT stop in IL for anything more than fuel - certainly no lodging, and don't give the LE any reason to pull you over. Keep any firearms you are transporting well out of site/fully obscured. IL has some seriously anti-gun laws. If pulled over and asked if they have your permission to search your vehicle, the answer should always be "I do not give my consent". They may make you wait @ the side of the road for a drug dog which have been known to be manipulated into giving false positives, or worse (https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/in-video-collinsville-cop-says-he-put-drugs-on-random/article_8d4e6017-30a3-577c-9dd9-f27f64170369.html), but they will otherwise have no PC to search.
SideShow Bob
11-27-2018, 21:26
On your way across country, DO NOT stop in IL for anything more than fuel - certainly no lodging, and don't give the LE any reason to pull you over. Keep any firearms you are transporting well out of site/fully obscured. IL has some seriously anti-gun laws. If pulled over and asked if they have your permission to search your vehicle, the answer should always be "I do not give my consent". They may make you wait @ the side of the road for a drug dog which have been known to be manipulated into giving false positives, or worse (https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/in-video-collinsville-cop-says-he-put-drugs-on-random/article_8d4e6017-30a3-577c-9dd9-f27f64170369.html), but they will otherwise have no PC to search.
In fact if you can, detour around IL. If you can, the extra miles traveled is worth the peace of mind.
Great-Kazoo
11-27-2018, 21:41
On your way across country, DO NOT stop in IL for anything more than fuel - certainly no lodging, and don't give the LE any reason to pull you over. Keep any firearms you are transporting well out of site/fully obscured. IL has some seriously anti-gun laws. If pulled over and asked if they have your permission to search your vehicle, the answer should always be "I do not give my consent". They may make you wait @ the side of the road for a drug dog which have been known to be manipulated into giving false positives, or worse (https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/in-video-collinsville-cop-says-he-put-drugs-on-random/article_8d4e6017-30a3-577c-9dd9-f27f64170369.html), but they will otherwise have no PC to search.
Ammo / mags separate from firearm. Which is unloaded and in a locked container, trunk etc. ANYWHERE besides the glove compartment.
Will1776
11-28-2018, 00:30
Basic ARs seem to be allowed, but if they are hypothetically, possibly, may be outfitted with bump stocks (possibly binary triggers, too), it looks like those are a no-go. (source: https://library.municode.com/co/denver/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TITIIREMUCO_CH38OFMIPR_A RTIVOFAGPUORSA_DIV2WEMI_S38-130ASWE Thanks, TFOGGER)
Exactly
SouthPaw
11-28-2018, 06:26
Don’t try and make sense of them, they are for my safety and yours.
kidicarus13
11-28-2018, 06:31
They are for the CHILdren
On your way across country, DO NOT stop in IL for anything more than fuel - certainly no lodging, and don't give the LE any reason to pull you over. Keep any firearms you are transporting well out of site/fully obscured. IL has some seriously anti-gun laws. If pulled over and asked if they have your permission to search your vehicle, the answer should always be "I do not give my consent". They may make you wait @ the side of the road for a drug dog which have been known to be manipulated into giving false positives, or worse (https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/in-video-collinsville-cop-says-he-put-drugs-on-random/article_8d4e6017-30a3-577c-9dd9-f27f64170369.html), but they will otherwise have no PC to search.
Rodriguez vs US states that they cannot make you wait for the puppy false alert machine.
kidicarus13
11-28-2018, 13:51
Rodriguez vs US states that they cannot make you wait for the puppy false alert machine.If they do it text book, you'll never know you're waiting for the alert hound until it hops out of the vehicle, handler in tow.
SideShow Bob
11-28-2018, 17:20
Also you need to check that you have no +15 magazines that have a manufacture date post 7/1/13. You cannot import them into CO. After that date.
And if questioned don’t mention that you became CO. Resident after that date, or all your +15 round mags are illegal according to CO. laws.
I'm sure as a hard chargin', training a lot shooter, the OP's magazines are scuffed to heck and such a date could possibly be illegible. It's the safe-queen folks who have cause to worry.
Rodriguez vs US states that they cannot make you wait for the puppy false alert machine.
What are the steps of for actually driving away though? Break out the whole, "Am I being detained?" bit?
I've seen enough sovereign citizen fail videos to know how that would work out.
That's what I'm saying. That's great if it's true, but unless you know how to act on that court finding, it's not as helpful as we'd like.
I'm sure as a hard chargin', training a lot shooter, the OP's magazines are scuffed to heck and such a date could possibly be illegible. It's the safe-queen folks who have cause to worry.
Out of principle I scratched every date off every magazine. There is no requirement to have them and the guberment must prove that it was obtained after that unobserved law went into effect.
I took all my magazines with dates on them, smashed them into a million pieces, then mailed them back the respective manufacturers.
MrWhiteRabbit
11-28-2018, 19:55
I'm sure as a hard chargin', training a lot shooter, the OP's magazines are scuffed to heck and such a date could possibly be illegible. It's the safe-queen folks who have cause to worry.
I don?t know you guys well yet, but I?m really going to like it here.
What are the steps of for actually driving away though? Break out the whole, "Am I being detained?" bit?
Anything they found, due to the illegal search, is inadmissible.
I would make it known that artificially lenghtening the duration of the stop to wait for a sniff is contrary to case law, and that I would like to be on my way.
kidicarus13
11-28-2018, 21:02
For your reading pleasure related to dogs... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodriguez_v._United_States
You think CO's gun laws are confusing? Try figuring out HUNTING in this state!
You think CO's gun laws are confusing? Try figuring out HUNTING in this state!
It's totally legal to flag antelope and other big game animals.
Will1776
11-29-2018, 00:01
You think CO's gun laws are confusing? Try figuring out HUNTING in this state!
It's insane. I gave up on bird hunting in this state. Back home it was so easy and lots of places to go. Here I don't even understand the system they use as to where to go. I'll stick to hunting targets here.
It's insane. I gave up on bird hunting in this state. Back home it was so easy and lots of places to go. Here I don't even understand the system they use as to where to go. I'll stick to hunting targets here.
Unacceptable. It IS confusing at first, but spend enough time asking questions and you'll get it figured out. There is a whole hunting section. Ask questions there.
Will1776
11-29-2018, 15:11
Unacceptable. It IS confusing at first, but spend enough time asking questions and you'll get it figured out. There is a whole hunting section. Ask questions there.
Thanks
I'd try to help with bird hunting, but I've never done it.
OneGuy67
11-29-2018, 17:04
You can still buy ARs in Denver, but the city has a stricter mag limit where 15+ magazines are not grandfathered
Not to be confrontational, but where can you buy an AR platform rifle in the city limits of Denver?
TANNER GUN SHOW
Largest Gun Show in Colorado
200 W 48th Ave., Denver, CO-80216
Does that count? I don't really go there.
Is 5280 Armory within Denver city limits?
Is 5280 Armory within Denver city limits?
Arvada
Will1776
11-29-2018, 19:47
Not to be confrontational, but where can you buy an AR platform rifle in the city limits of Denver?
Bighorn Firearms is one I know of.
spqrzilla
11-30-2018, 01:17
TANNER GUN SHOW
Largest Gun Show in Colorado
200 W 48th Ave., Denver, CO-80216
Does that count? I don't really go there.
My understanding is that the Merchandise Mart is actually in unincorporated Adams county. But I think the address you list above is that student housing tower that used to be a hotel.
That's why I was saying I really don't know, I've only ever gone once.
My understanding is that the Merchandise Mart is actually in unincorporated Adams county. But I think the address you list above is that student housing tower that used to be a hotel.
That's who responds when there has been a crime committed at the show.
OneGuy67
11-30-2018, 13:15
TANNER GUN SHOW
Largest Gun Show in Colorado
200 W 48th Ave., Denver, CO-80216
Does that count? I don't really go there.
Nope. Its in unincorporated Adams County.
The old Crossroads of the West used to be held also just outside the city limits of Denver off of I-70 in Aurora.
OneGuy67
11-30-2018, 13:20
Bighorn Firearms is one I know of.
Interesting. I've never heard of them. Might have to visit.
The point being is, there aren't many gun shops in the actual city limits of Denver due to their municipal laws concerning "assault weapons". It is by design according to my peeps in the DPD. I know of a couple of gun shops in Denver, but they mainly sell bolt action type rifles or older GI rifles. Bass Pro is in the city limits of Denver, but I haven't been there in awhile and I don't know if they do sell AR type rifles at that location.
SideShow Bob
11-30-2018, 17:23
TANNER GUN SHOW
Largest Gun Show in Colorado
200 W 48th Ave., Denver, CO-80216
Does that count? I don't really go there.
That address is approximately 10 blocks to the south, Tanner is on 58th. Ave. And yes it is unincorporated Adams county.
Interesting. I've never heard of them. Might have to visit.
The point being is, there aren't many gun shops in the actual city limits of Denver due to their municipal laws concerning "assault weapons". It is by design according to my peeps in the DPD. I know of a couple of gun shops in Denver, but they mainly sell bolt action type rifles or older GI rifles. Bass Pro is in the city limits of Denver, but I haven't been there in awhile and I don't know if they do sell AR type rifles at that location.
Yes, they sell ARs
The problem with precedence, people think they create legal loopholes. If a cop has you pulled over and you go all soverign on their butt, and cite to a case, well, AT BEST, they are going to make you wait (maybe even while they read the case on google!), and then come and let the dogs sniff your car anyway. They don't give a shit. If you spend $150,000 to litigate it all the way to court of appeals, you might eventually get it overturned, but it's a gamble, and even if you win, you won't get all the time you served back in prison, nor any damage award, and probably not your attorney fees either, you'd just get a mark taken off your criminal record.
Even if you think you have a SLAM DUNK because of a case, judges DO NOT HAVE TO COMPLY. With anything. There's about 20 times the volume of precedence rewriting the laws as there are laws themselves, in all matter of contradictory positions. Sure, you can cite to that case, but a judge, if they so desire, can cite to another one that is in-opposite, or they can even outright rule arbitrary however the hell they want, there's nothing that actually binds their hands, including even the U.S. Supreme Court itself, which oft contradicts itself.
No matter what a Supreme Court ruling states, officers can do whatever the fuck they want. They will still have qualified immunity whereas they cannot be sued.
No matter what a Supreme Court ruling states, judges can do whatever the fuck they want. They will still have judicial immunity whereas they cannot be sued.
In many instances, you will not even be able to appeal it, even if you had all the money in the world. Even if someone else did take it all the way to SCOTUS and won before you.
Be careful believing you can predict a legal outcome or that anything constrains the legal system.
PPS: There exists published case law with my name on it, in a federal context. And there exists published case law in the same court that is exactly the opposite of that holding. (internal split). Happens with virtually everything, because we are not a system of laws, we are a system of people who conform the law to their desire/bias. Whatever position future judges want to take, they can cite to one case, or the other at their whim. From the same court. It's this way with virtually everything.
Good post.
To the OP.
18-12-302. Large-capacity magazines prohibited - penalties - exceptions
(1) (a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, on and after July 1, 2013, a person who sells, transfers, or possesses a large-capacity magazine commits a class 2 misdemeanor.
(b) Any person who violates this subsection (1) after having been convicted of a prior violation of said subsection (1) commits a class 1 misdemeanor.
(c) Any person who violates this subsection (1) commits a class 6 felony if the person possessed a large-capacity magazine during the commission of a felony or any crime of violence, as defined in section 18-1.3-406.
(2) (a) A person may possess a large-capacity magazine if he or she:
(I) Owns the large-capacity magazine on July 1, 2013; and
(II) Maintains continuous possession of the large-capacity magazine.
(b) If a person who is alleged to have violated subsection (1) of this section asserts that he or she is permitted to legally possess a large-capacity magazine pursuant to paragraph (a) of this subsection (2), the prosecution has the burden of proof to refute the assertion.
The gray area is importation. I think in some counties, you wont be questioned.
Some counties I think you would have issues as they may say that you didnt have them in the state, but I can find no laws that says you must have had them in the state.
Just remember some areas are not gun friendly.
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